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SRF Walrus

Mt. Washington, Ca

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SRF Walrus > What can we do to help SRF? > Helping each other
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member108 Registered User (11/28/02 5:18 am) Reply	Helping each other What has helped me about the Walrus was the Realization that I was not alone in my feelings. Feeling that the Religion for the New Age was nothing more than a cult had me really doubting myself. I can see now that my own experience was not unique. Thanks everyone for sharing.
psychdev Registered User (11/28/02 2:44 pm) Reply	Re: Helping each other <<Feeling that the Religion for the New Age was nothing more than a cult had me really doubting myself>> There's a saying that "feelings are valid". So I don't question your feelings or their validity (for you). And I'm sure you're not alone in feeling this way. But I hope you realize that "cult" is a rather loaded, emotional word which means a a lot of different things to different people. FWIW, I would define a cult something like this: 1) a group led by a single charismatic leader with overwhelming narcissistic needs for admiration, on the one hand, and a need to devalue others on the the hand; 2) a group whose members are geographically or psychologically isolated; and 3) an organization which deliberately exploits its members as a matter of policy for monetary gain or the psychological gratification of the leader. I'm not so sure that SRF fits this description. Or, if it does fit, then Catholicism (and perhaps Islam and even some sects of Buddhism) are also also a "cults". And that would be stretching theword so far as to make it almost meaningless. For what it's worth, I believe that SRF can do harm to people, especially very vulnerable or individuals with a less developed sense of their identity (for example young people or individuals who are dealing with childhood abuse issues). But the same statement can be made about religion in general. Certainly Catholicism, for example, can have the extremely negative effects people describe here. And that's not surprising. Anytime you ask someone to renounce previous values, lifestyle, familiar routines and engage in very powerful techniques for transforming the self, you run the risk of losing one's own identity, and producing zealots and unbalanced personalities. Yet Catholicism also produced people like St. Francis and Mother Teresa. That's a kind of paradox, isn't it? How do you tell St. Francis or Mother Teresa that their church is a "toxic cult" (which many former Catholics would certainly maintain). Edited by: psychdev at: 11/28/02 2:50:13 pm
username Registered User (11/28/02 2:48 pm) Reply	Re: Helping each other I personally was harmed by SRF and I consider it a cult and do not encourage people to visit there.
psychdev Registered User (11/28/02 3:02 pm) Reply	Re: Helping each other username: I'm curious how you define a cult? Is it a cult because you feel harmed? If you had a bad experience with Rotary Club or Druids would that also be a cult? I don't think so. Other people have positive experiences with SRF, but according to you they are simply deluded. Is that reasonable? It would be hard IMO to put SRF in the same category as Scientology, Jim Jones, or EST. Yes, there may be elements in SRF which are cult-like (for example, the reported tendency (reported by others on the BB) of specific ministers to tell people that they should not attend other churchs. If that happened, then it's definitely cult-like IMO. But I think you need to be very careful about generalizing about "the" organization as a whole when you actually mean a specific monastic. And you need to be specific about time, place, and person, because every reality is the result of all three. Edited by: psychdev at: 11/28/02 3:06:21 pm
username Registered User (11/28/02 4:52 pm) Reply	Re: Helping each other don't attend other churches don't read outside literature no sex be alone more practice silence meditate 2-3 hours a day volunteer (a lot) don't talk to the opposite sex when you are volunteering no social activities do not watch tv do not read the newspaper do not go to the movies do not go to dances if you leave the path you will never be enlightened work at low level jobs so that there is lots of time to volunteer, and meditate etc there is more.... lots of stuff like this... Sounds like a cult to me
member108 Registered User (11/29/02 6:17 pm) Reply	Re: Helping each other Use just about any definition of cult you like. It probably fits. I wonder what definition would not apply?
psychdev Registered User (11/29/02 6:58 pm) Reply	Re: Helping each other username, member108: By your definiton(s), then, the Franciscans are also a cult As well as Theravaden Buddists (at least postulants), some groups of Orthodox Jews, and anyone doing a spiritual retreat who seeks solitude. Sorry, that doesn't make sense. You're using the world "cult" as a kind of a nasty epithet, and not in the real sense of the word. The stretched it to the point that it is virtually meaningless. Which is exactly my point.
username Registered User (11/29/02 7:38 pm) Reply	Re: Helping each other srf is a cult in ANY sense of the word. But, sometimes when you are in the midst of it , you can't see it. Notice how the speakers always say SRF is not a cult. It is not listed on any of the cult boards ( that's cause they check and threaten to sue if anyone tells the truth) GET OUT BEFORE ITS TOO LATE!
member108 Registered User (11/29/02 10:35 pm) Reply	Re: Helping each other Has SRF attacked this board? I have not seen evidence of it. I believe someone posted a link to the laws stating that as long as we post our views as views we are safe?
psychdev Registered User (11/30/02 6:27 am) Reply	Re: Helping each other <<srf is a cult in ANY sense of the word. But, sometimes when you are in the midst of it , you can't see it. >> username, could you please answer my question: How are the Franciscans different from SRF (in terms of the various criteria you list). I also note that several statements you make are major exaggerations. SRF does not require "no sex" except for monastics (they prescribe "moderation"), they don't prohibit dancing, TV, or movies--they just say don't over do it. I'm not sure what minister you've been listening to, but you've apparently heard a rather extreme form of the SRF message. All this makes me wonder what kind of religion you are searching for? Do you want a religion which did not limit sex, allows you to eat whatever you want, does not require a change in lifestyle, requires no firm committment, and generally is "lite" on self-discipline. Meditation would be like going to the gym--something to tone up spiritual "abs" so you can get on with the real business of life. Seriously, I'd be very interested in hearing you describe your ideal religion. Or are you against any kind of religious/spiritual discipline? Edited by: psychdev at: 11/30/02 6:30:36 am
username Registered User (11/30/02 7:13 am) Reply	Re: Helping each other I do not know too much about the religious order you speak, except that they were thrown out of a catholic parish school for abusing the children there (this was many years ago) but I know nothing else, good or bad about the order. I listened to what the SRF monks said over and over and over and over again at the temple. (If I recall from prior postings, you do not go to a temple.) I suggest that you call mother center and ask them to read the SRF policy on sex, which they read at the temples many times a year. It is not as you describe. Maybe you can have them send you a copy, and then you can post it here for all to see and discuss.
djali123 Registered User (11/30/02 10:01 am) Reply	Re: Helping each other Are you saying the monastics in meditation services are telling members not to have sex? As a rule? That's hard to believe. They may have rules for monastics, but for members I think they have general guidelines.
username Registered User (11/30/02 12:47 pm) Reply	Re: Helping each other YES. SRF says celibacy is required for spiritual advancement. There is a formal memo from mother center that they read at the temples many times a year. SRF claims Lahiri was celibate after he received kriya. Shibendu Lahiri says that this is not true, that two children were born after Lahiri received kriya.
srflongago Registered User (11/30/02 1:37 pm) Reply	Re:Lahiri's family I hope there is some mistake. If not, what kind of nonsense is it to spread directly refutable falsities about Lahiri Mahasay? His Ashram, birth records, and family still exist. Are these people so insular that they feel they can make up for their own purposes a version of reality which holds only for them on their tiny hill? Benares is only one day, a couple of plane rides, away. If they care about Lahiri, they might make the pilrimage.
KS Registered User (11/30/02 3:06 pm) Reply	Re: Helping each other I never heard SRF claim that celibacy was required for spiritual advancement. They do the usual thing of expecting you to be married, moderation and so on, but not celibacy as a requirement. Rajarsi? Dr. Lewis? There are a lot of weird SRF members who might claim that, but I have never heard anything officially like that. SRF tends to avoid taking a stand on ANYTHING at all so I would be surprised. Taking a stand does not fit into their goals. Some people might get upset.
djali123 Registered User (11/30/02 3:39 pm) Reply	Re: Helping each other On a second thought, celibacy is mentioned for single people in the lessons. In one of the lessons there is a page attached which talks about moderation in marriage.
lutamata Registered User (11/30/02 9:35 pm) Reply	Re: Helping each other in all the years that i attended, and volunteered in, srf activities, i have never felt all those restrictions imposed on upon me. the message i got was that we do things at our own pace. you can meditate a bit, you can meditate a lot. whatever. i suppose this could be due to my own filters. i would not allow any organization to totally dictate my actions (and people can call that maya or the ego if they want). friends who tried to be 'good devotees' burnt out real fast. however, i was bothered by elitistic attitudes amongst the longtime members, which reminded me of the catholic women's league. i also was disturbed when i would get swept up by the tendency to idolize the monks, nuns and daya mata during convocations. eventually, those turned me off. more importantly, there is a point in your spiritual journey when one has to give up the structures/crutches that an organization provides. what i have read on this board has increased that disturbance tremendously. but i still believe that srf, like any other organized religion, has its place in an individual's spiritual journey. it provides one the structure and the tools with which to progress in one's quest. i will always be grateful for srf (and before that, the zen center) for helping me to crystallize the path i wish to take. but in the end, one cannot be attached, one has to let go of the crutches... anyway, sorry, i am rambling. this board has been very helpful in my giving up those crutches (i.e., it validated the decision that it was time to move on). thanks to everyone. namaste
soulcircle Registered User (12/1/02 3:20 am) Reply	woman and men actually celebrate intimacy and passion yet srf says only if your married many of us aren't the lesson says those of us that are married in love making should focus on the spiritual eye gimme me a break yogananda's parents in the autobiography are extolled as making love only (was it once a year...some years) for the purpose of conceiving a lie? a sick thought for some of us? where have some of you been that you didn't read that lesson or hear that sex is ok IF you're married read the stupid lesson about being in the third eye during sex [passion and intimacy] and i tried took those lessons seriously geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez am i the only one that wishes rajasi and yogananda so loved one another as gay men that they chilled..................had fun.......were happy.................did not set up hyperidealistic demands on millions of followers.....................in other words had full normal lives, and didn't need to climb upon a pedestal.......................................................................................................................................................... and as a result avoided being control freaks and set themselves and an organization up the would reek havoc and travesty upon many Edited by: soulcircle at: 12/1/02 3:24:06 am
djali123 Registered User (12/1/02 7:30 am) Reply	Re: woman and men actually celebrate intimacy and passion From memory, the concentrating at the spiritual eye was for conceiving a spirituall advanced child, not in general. I know that lessons students, especially new ones like myself, can put too many expectations on themselves. As far as SRF the few times I've talked with them they've been understanding. I don't think the lessons are rigid rules to follow, but they are good general guidelines. Paraphrasing from Divine Romance, "there are different instructions for different people, the initial guidelines are meant to get you started and then you have to use your intuition to follow your individual path".
soulcircle Registered User (12/1/02 12:38 pm) Reply	djali123......what i found that was rigid djali123, so i studied lessons side by side with my wife so i served, made kriyaban friendships, and in addition to going 800 miles (round trip) to convocation 17 times, went 1000 miles (RT) to encinitas week-long retreats, side by side with my wife and hundreds, learning that Gyana Mata was the foremost female disciple.....well we still had daya mata alive, we met her in the 3rd floor study, and sat down and visited so like hundreds and thousands we heard at the encinitas retreats, the tape where daya mata recounted being told you didn't come to have popcorn in each others room in rare spare moments...you came for god.....daya mata, "I never went to a monastics room for popcorn again." how many jaws have dropped.....laughing, and not to intake designer popcorn? djali123.....for many of us ..............................................that is rigid
djali123 Registered User (12/1/02 12:57 pm) Reply	Re: djali123......what i found that was rigid It does sound a rigid for what we're used to. But it depends what the context was, was she wasting a lot of time doing that? Also that was an individual instruction, maybe for her stage of development that's what she needed. I've read here on the board stories of disciples being advised to socialize more etc. Different instructions for different people. Even though at times we don't like being told our faults, it makes us better persons when we work to remove them.

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