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SRF Walrus > What can we do to help SRF? > What will we ask?
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Rigiditananda Unregistered User (11/21/01 1:09 am) Reply	What will we ask? Thanks KS for your idea of non-cooperation This is what I have been looking for. It is the right strategy. We need to increase the non-cooperation movement, until the BOD is willing to accept certain changes. Let us create a list of petitions.... To all of you, what would you ask? Also, any idea on how we can we increase the SRF Satyagraha movement. From my part, I resign to my committee in one of the temples right now -- no more volunteer service to SRF. How can we increase these force? Any ideas?
KS Unregistered User (11/21/01 7:43 am) Reply	No more lying When people ask about SRF it is difficult to be critical without appearing critical of Master and disloyal. It is a habit to think that way. If you speak the truth you should not be afraid to say what you think. So another strategy, in addition to non-cooperation is information/truth. Spread the Yogananda-DIF.com website link and the link to this discussion board. Be honest about what you think and know. Don't exaggerate.
Alice Registered User (12/14/01 10:10 am) Reply	Re: What will we ask? Rigiditananda, This is a good question. Looking through all of the posts that portray an organization that seems hopelessly beyond repair, what indeed are the options? Some have chosen to leave the organization or in various ways refuse to participate. This is a valid personal option, but from the standpoint of the organization, only removes participants who see the need for change. So, is there a way to stay connected with the organization (and stay sane and centered in Master) while trying to support positive change and growth from within? Or are we only left with no options but to "abandon ship"? In order to stay in the organization and work for positive change, there would have to be some areas where there is real strength and attunement to Master's teachings. Mother Center may be out, but what about the Temples, the Centers, and meditation groups? Is it possible to effect change from a grass roots perspective, kind of like a revival movement? We have been making reference to Vatican City and the catholic church syndrome within SRF. Well, looking to history for models (since it continues to repeat itself), what about establishing an SRF reformation movement? It's been done in every major religion. To get back to your original question, What will we ask? We can certainly ask Mother Center to stop being so secretive and to provide honest communication about various issues. And it is important that we DO ask and KEEP asking - however, without holding a great deal of expectation for huge results. At the same time as keeping the pressure and the spotlight on MC for accountability, I think it is important to work from the ground up by supporting Master's teachings among the members and helping to dispel the misinterpretations and misdirections that have been discussed in this board.
Rigiditananda Unregistered User (12/15/01 12:37 am) Reply	Disgusting Hidden Agenda Dear Alice Thanks for your response and very interesting thoughts. You say: <<<This is a good question. Looking through all of the posts that portray an organization that seems hopelessly beyond repair, what indeed are the options? Some have chosen to leave the organization or in various ways refuse to participate. This is a valid personal option, but from the standpoint of the organization, only removes participants who see the need for change>>> The greatest difficulty lies in being able to stay in the battle against SRF rigidity and not getting tired. It is natural that we human beings want to see results from our efforts. But some projects may in fact produce results only after many years and great effort. In regard to create changes in SRF the situation is quite hard to assess. We may see sudden changes any moment due to the pressure we are all witnessing -- which is especially powerful at a mental level. Or, it may take years. It is hard to say. We can also say that there are already some very encouraging results, but that I leave for another posting. But in regard to abandoning the ship, it may help to keep in mind the following: Anandamoy and others have been playing the game of pushing people OUT for a long time -- years! Now and then, the communist party in the former Soviet Union was doing EXACTLY the same -- that process had a especial name that I can't remember now (can someone help me here?). When the leaders of the party felt that new ideas where sneaking into the rigid hard core communist paradigm they would trigger this "cleansing process." The process involved of course persecution and even killing of those inside the party, who dared to have new, threatening percieved, ideas. About a year ago, I called Anandamoy to talk with him about a paradoxical approach to control the emotions -- which was giving me excellent results. The approach consist in not resisting the disturbing emotion but embracing it. He had talked in the convocation about embracing the darkness in the spiritual eye -- while you meditate. And I suggested him, that to embrace the darkness in the heart chakra (negative emotions) was basically the same. I was expecting a somewhat open mindedness to my approach. However, he accused me immediately of trying to change the teachings -- which he had already done with his presentation in convocation about embracing the darkness in the spiritual eye. Soon he threatened to hang up -- because this conversation "was going no where." He added that there are other path -- you know! So, he invited me to leave! I was shocked! And finally, because I kept discussing the point with him -- in a very polite and conciliatory manner -- he just hang up on me! I have heard Anandamoy saying, "there are some monks here that SHOULD not be in the ashram." That was years ago. But, he didn’t stop there. To this poor fellows, he would give them his "special treatment," to make sure that they leave! I met and ex-monk who said to me -- Anadamoy is mentally sick. And he told me a story on how he treated him. He had crafted a gift for Daya Ma -- for her birthday. He met Anandamoy in the hallway and Anandamoy asked with contempt "what's that?" The monk had work for about a year in his project . It was a very nice present, I tell you that guy is an artist. Anandamoy continued with his attack. “Do you think that Daya Ma is going to like such a thing?” bla bla bla.... The young monk felt devastated. We can theorize that the monk was not cut for the monastic life and Anandamoy was only trying to help him -- to leave! But; 1) What a way to help! A heart to heart loving conversation could have done the same much more effectively and without traumatizing anyone. 2) May be that man had good potential to be a monk, but with such a treatment, and probably many others he got, he was set to fail. 3) If in Anandamoy's assessment, the monk's life was not happy in the ashram, could the organization have talked to him and find out what they could do to make him happier? The organization has been created for the devotees -- not viceversa! (I recently wrote a posting about this). But, what we see is the opposite; the organization abusing the individual for its own sake. As you see Alice, many of us are being subtly and not so subtly, being pushed out. SRF is going through a cleansing of the "bad material" -- like me, and perhaps you. That cleansing is being done consciously by the hard core monastics. So, do we want to accept this and leave, and give into their game? Or we have come to a point where enough is enough and let us fight back? And no matter how long it takes, or how much time we need to put into the project, take a strong determination to set SRF free? Let us remember that Master says (aprox) "anger, plus a just cause, plus self-control" can create wonderful changes in the world. I suggest the EZboard operator to open a new subject “the SRF cleansing process.” Let us discuss and find out here if that hidden agenda really exist or not. As you can see, what I’m saying here, is a serious accusation against Anandamoy, and the SRF board. Let us see if other devotees are being invited to leave like I was. Let us find out if monastics have been abused consciously with the hidden agenda of making them leave the ashram.
Vanguard Unregistered User (12/15/01 1:43 am) Reply	Operation Infinite Justice They will push out all the "bad" members until they -- the few and stubbornly self-righteous -- remain alone in the organization like mutant cells bound in a cancerous cyst. And when finally all the "bad" members have been purged, there will come a swift moment -- unannounced and terrible --- when justice, like a surgical blast from a cobalt laser, deals its inevitable wake up call. P.S. The word you're searching for is "exile."
Rigiditananda Unregistered User (12/15/01 10:50 am) Reply	The SRF Purge Thanks Vanguard The word I was trying to remember was "purge." This was the name the communist party used to give to that infamous process. As I mentioned before, it had for goal, to clean up the dirt that could contaminate the ideology. See how perfectly fits with the SRF obsession with the "purity" of the teachings? This is why now they are even helping the monastics to leave. Why not helping them to stay, and to succeed? Was this the reason they hired therapists to work with the monastics? To help them to contact their true feelings and leave? I can't understand why therapists are needed in an organization like SRF. It is a good thing of course, but if the BOD had had the willingness to listen to their monastics needs and help them to succeed in their efforts to serve the world as monastics, there would be no need of therapy. But they neglected their people, they didn't listen to them, and finally they hired psychotherapists to help them to leave -- to "purge" the organization from the weak elements that could not take the so called "TRAINING." Please EZboard op I would very much appreciate if you can create a new topic called "The SRF purge." To me this issue indicate serious moral transgressions. And, Anandamoy is the most visibly guilty for this abuse.
KS Registered User (12/15/01 11:13 pm) Reply	Therapists I believe the therapists were brought in by SRF management to get the monastics back in line. The therapists ended up agreeing there were many organizational problems and started to help the monastics deal with them. This was of course not what management wanted and they were "released".
XInsider Unregistered User (12/16/01 12:14 pm) Reply	The therapeutic intervention KS and Rigiditananda, Afraid your information about the role of the therapists is incomplete and somewhat misleading. They were brought in as consultants to see how the ashram environment could be improved. This happened during the tenure of the Spiritual Life Committees. It is a long and complicated story. The short version is that management/BOD did not like what they had paid to hear. So they fired the consultants and enjoyed a nice housecleaning, hoping against hope that everything would somehow return to (enter the violins) "the way we were." It is true that monastics who do not fit the mold can be starved out, in a sense. For example, a nun might be kept without a vow, transferred from department to department, asked to move to an off site ashram where she makes trouble for fewer people, and so on. She is given no respect (few are!) or responsibility, and is simply "tolerated" with the forced smile that hides the true feelings of the leadership. This is the classic non-direct, passive way to get rid of someone.
In Recovery Unregistered User (12/16/01 7:14 pm) Reply	Therapists To Rigiditananda: You start off with a legitimate question: "Was this the reason they hired therapists to work with the monastics? To help them to contact their true feelings and leave?" Then you finish your entry having convinced yourself that this is true: "But they neglected their people, they didn't listen to them, and finally they hired psychotherapists to help them to leave." To tell you the truth, sometimes I worry about you. The therapists were NOT brought in to help the monastics leave the ashram. They were brought in to help improve the ashram culture. The Spiritual Life Committees were the first in the ashram to contact these very healthy, well-rounded people and realized just by interacting with them how much help the organization needed. The committees also realized (and were somehow able to convince the leadership) that the emotional and psychological needs of the monastics needed to be handled by qualified professionals and not only by the ashram's spiritual counselors, who had no qualifications in this arena. I wouldn't be surprised if the main thing that convinced the management to give monastics access to therapy was the legal ramifications of having spiritual counselors deal with issues outside their area of expertise. Quite possibly the main motivating factor might have been to avoid lawsuits (and not because one of their "beloved" monastics had a legitimate need). These professionals were hired on a consultancy basis to evaluate the culture in the ashram and recommend any improvements to meet the emotional and psychological needs of the monastics. Bottom line: They were appalled at the level of abuse and emotional immaturity in the ashram. Of course, Management couldn't handle the truth and therefore fired the consultants. By the way, the consultants weren't told they were fired but heard about it indirectly -- in classic SRF style. Even though SRF will publically state there is no stigma about seeking professional help, I am convinced that they don't truly believe it and that this is just an effort to appear politically correct. The monastics who are in therapy are instructed to keep it a secret from the others, even though one monk said to me: "Now it's a question of, 'Who ISN'T going to therapy.'" Maybe there is a connection between therapy and leaving the ashram. Perhaps the healthier the individuals become the more self-respect they get and the less they are willing to subject themselves to an environment that is no longer serving their needs. Perhaps they saw more clearly just how unhealthy the ashram environment was for them.
Raja Begum Unregistered User (12/16/01 7:44 pm) Reply	Response *Quote:* "They were appalled at the level of abuse and emotional immaturity in the ashram." Can you imagine how helpful it would be if we were privy to the therapists' assessments of the organization? Can we get into this in more detail? *Quote:* "Perhaps the healthier the individuals become the more self-respect they get and the less they are willing to subject themselves to an environment that is no longer serving their needs. Perhaps they saw more clearly just how unhealthy the ashram environment was for them." This applies equally to SRF culture outside the ashram. Something few people are talking about on this message board. Any long-time lay-disciples care to comment?
KS Registered User (12/16/01 10:34 pm) Reply	Outside the Ashram It is much more difficult to see the problems with SRF if you are outside the ashram. The SRF shield of goodwill from the members, and devotion to Master, keeps people from seeing the pattern. Unless you have worked at SRF, or volunteered for something serious like Youth Program, you may never see the problems. And maybe that isn't so bad. You probably won't feel the pain of the bad ladies behavior either. Subtle things will nag at you, but you may not suffer too badly. Those that do see have a choice to make. Most choose to keep their eyes closed.
AumBoy Registered User (12/16/01 11:10 pm) Reply	Postulants SRF had also started to have psychological testing on incoming postulants. Does anyone know if this was curtailed, too?
Happyananda Unregistered User (12/16/01 11:13 pm) Reply	Master's song edited In regard to the purge: The BOD just released a new version of one of Master's songs: Title: "I Will Be Thine Always" New words: "Devotees may come Devotees may be fired...." Copyright SRF BOD 2001 (If you wander about the rest, yes, it remains the same, because The BOD doesn't like changes) Happyananda
Rigiditanada Unregistered User (12/16/01 11:40 pm) Reply	How can you be so sure? Dear In Recovery It seems that you felt somewhat angry with my theory about the real reason behind bringing therapists to the Ashram You say "These professionals were hired on a consultancy basis to evaluate the culture in the ashram and recommend any improvements to meet the emotional and psychological needs of the monastics." You seem to be quite sure that this OFFICIAL VERSION is the ultimate truth about their motives. However, you talk quite poorly of the BOD. Can you see the contradiction? Can't you see that the BOD may very well have had a hidden agenda that was not that pure? My theory stands just as a theory, and I have no prooofs, but you can't prove me that your "official version" is the truth either. I simply do not believe in SRF's official versions anymore. In regard to you worrying about me, let me tell you I can't take care of myself quite well after I stopped believing in official versions. Peace to you
Rigiditananda Unregistered User (12/17/01 1:27 am) Reply	a bit surprised Dear in Recovery You say: "... I wouldn't be surprised if the main thing that convinced the management to give monastics access to therapy was the legal ramifications of having spiritual counselors deal with issues outside their area of expertise. Quite possibly the main motivating factor might have been to avoid lawsuits (and not because one of their "beloved" monastics had a legitimate need)." Here you mention another possible hidden agenda. This is an interesting agenda, and may have been behind their decision too -- good point in Recovery! Just think of the legal ramifications of a monk committing suicide inside the ashram. Depression is a dangerous illness and many monks are depressed. Some nuns have bullimia -- also a life threatening disorder. This obviously has legal connotations. So, we agree here that there could be different hidden agendas behind the decision -- legal considerations, and also, as I said before, the BOD may have seen here an excellent possibility to accelerate the process of problematic monks leaving the ashram, as they definitely would have contact their true feelings in therapy. True? theory? speculation? However, strangely, psychotherapy is 80% about that -- contacting your deepest feelings and then make adjustments in your life accordingly. The BOD knows that -- they are not stupid. They knew that the psychotherapy process was going to put monastics in contact with their true desire to leave the org. and pull them out of denial. Why then you see this possibility as an impossibility? In fact, 30 monastics left the ashram afterwards. Was it just a coincidence? Yes, those therapists did a good work I tell you. I'm sure that the hidden agenda (or agendas) of the BOD were not revealed to the therapists, so obviously it is not their fault. Nevertheless, the BOD got some good results -- a very effective "purge" or cleansing as you or someone else called it. So, I like the best joke of the year: "Happyanandas's new version of I will be Thine always" "Devotees may come Devotees may be fired..." Thanks Happyananda, you understood. Also , you focused very intensely in the issue of the therapists which to me is quite secondary, just one more example of the "purge" nature of the process we have been witnessing. Also I want to say that I know a nun who said to me -- "those who do not agree will have to leave" Can you see that we are being purge? Can you see how serious is that -- morally? Do you see that the therapists issue is quite secondary to this? How would you feel if after more than twenty years in this path, giving the best of you to the teachings and organization a senior monk tells you that "you can leave if you want."? And the underlying messages are We do not care for you dear one We are your spiritual family, but we do not mind if you go now, you know. You are problem here, get out We do not need you If your soul it lost for incarnation as Master said, it doesn't really matter. So many contradictions! In Recovery, I also can't understand why you became so over focus into the "therapist" issue when what I was saying is something quite more substantial. I'm talking here about a tremendous contradiction -- from an SRF eager to save souls thruogh the path to an SRF that is eager to get rid of those same individuals that before wanted to save. Greetings to you -- Rigiditananda
KS Registered User (12/17/01 8:14 am) Reply	Hidden agenda in the therapist situation? The BOD is not a group of very smart people. They mostly react to things, do little real planning, and come up with few ideas of their own. They are mostly “NO” people who stop things. They would never have come up with an idea like therapists to help the monastics. It would never have occurred to them. Helping people is of zero value to them. Most monastics never even see the matas or most of the board. The lifeless SRF legal department, with Cindy in charge, would never have the brain cells to hatch a conspiracy like is suggested here either. Bringing in a therapist to show people they should leave? I agree they are capable of it morally, but it is too clever for them. As I see it, from some people who were there, here is the situation. The Spiritual Life Committees, a bunch of pretty good people, were trying to figure out ways to help the monastics. They could see the problems, and people suffering, and thought a nice mature therapist might get some good discussions going. They were not afraid, which is good. The BOD was aware of all the complaints and people criticizing them and felt the therapist could help bring the monastics back in line. It would help them control the monastics. They are VERY sure they are right and faultless so that is certainly the result they expected. The therapist (who may even see this board eventually and think we are all a bunch of nuts) came in and found a mess. They began work and through the discussions pulled the veil from many people’s eyes. Many began to see the abusive behavior for what it was, not training from on high but abusive behavior. I believe that the monastics being talked to universally found the discussions helpful. The therapist was not preaching revolution, just basic “how to treat people” stuff. The BOD found even more calls for them to change, which was not the result they wanted so they terminated the therapist. They began the crack down that resulted in many leaving and the disbanding of the Spiritual Life Committees. They got rid of several lay member managers and invited monastics to leave indirectly with things like “those who do not agree will have to leave”. The bad ladies now, more than ever, feel people are out to get them and so they have even pulled back from others even more. Daya didn’t even go to convocation this year. I fear the worst is yet to come.
Been there Unregistered User (12/17/01 11:35 am) Reply	Conspiracy theory Yes, KS, I agree that the hidden agenda in regards to the therapists is highly unlikely. Can't see anyone sitting around cooking that one up. As I understand it, the consultants came in at a point before the BOD were actively opposing the work of the Spiritual Life Committees. One thing, KS. The therapists were never universally liked. There were always a few monastics who distrusted the whole procedure and did not want to attend the meetings and seminars. They felt threatened by change.
XFreeLabor Unregistered User (12/17/01 5:45 pm) Reply	Lay Members exodus Raja Begum, You asked for some comments on lay members leaving SRF. I posted something today in "Lake Shrine Ashram"/"New temple". One of the consequences of monastics treatment towards lay members I describe there, is an exodus of the latter from the temples. Many had left in the last years. A monk said that only 5% of people who receive the lessons, remain in the path (SRF). I will try to explain some more later. I got no time now.
witness Unregistered User (12/18/01 9:43 am) Reply	Culpability & Consequences "I wouldn't be surprised if the main thing that convinced the management to give monastics access to therapy was the LEGAL RAMIFICATIONS OF HAVING SPIRITUAL COUNSELORS DEAL WITH ISSUES OUTSIDE THEIR AREA OF EXPERTISE. Quite possibly the main motivating factor might have been to AVOID LAWSUITS (and not because one of their "beloved" monastics had a legitimate need)." That is it, exactly. The decision to address the psychological and emotional pressures that build up in ashram life was triggered by the lawsuit which resulted from Arjunananda's misconduct, and the shrugged-shoulder treatment the woman devotee got in so-called "counselling" sessions with other monastics during his relationship with her. Under California law any organization which sets people up as legitimate counselors, such as the many SRF monks and nuns who counsel in person or over the phone, becomes liable for their negligence if they cause harm. Since it was known in high places that other monastics had been, and were presently, involved in inappropriate relationships, and in true SRF style averted eyes were the only response to that knowledge, a decsion was made to try to head future lawsuits off at the pass. (The fact that the lawsuit against Donald Walters cost his organization around one and a half million probably didn't go unnoticed. What's sauce for the goose...) Years ago a friend of mine was getting ready to leave a long-term physically abusive marriage. She was trying to "follow the teachings," which of course suggest that a wife just try harder when things go wrong, and called a nun counsellor at Mother Center. When my friend broke down and talked about how her husband had been punching and slapping her for years, sometimes for nodding off during meditation, the nun sweetly suggested, "Maybe you could find a quiet moment and talk to him about it." Years passed before she was once again able to summon the courage to think about leaving -- years during which the reign of terror only accelerated. Fortunately, she has since left SRF and remarried.

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