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SRF Walrus
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One for all
Unregistered User
(11/3/01 11:00 pm)
Reply 		Gaining Insight
Greetings

I am a new visitor to this board. While I seldom participate in boards, I will occasionally post to this one if I can offer any insight, solace or information.

I have been trying to resolve the discrepancies of SFR organizational culture and their professed values.

At times it saddens me to read some of the banter: I can see that many of you are hurt, angry and disappointed that what you invested a large portion of your life did not turn out to be what you thought it to be. It also saddens me to see the defensive rationalizations coming from a few who still believe in that ideal.

What inspires me are the insights (and well-written comments) from Raja Begum, Shadow man, Musicman and SPI

I basically want to gather factual information with as little “spin” as possible of how the organization grew from Yogananda’s time to the present, and how it failed to practice what it preached.

Here’s what I am able to discern. When Rajarsi passed on the nuns from the Wright and the Brown families assumed the leadership of SRF. I need to do my homework, but I think it is safe to say they were twenty to thirty something (mother’s excluded), sheltered from the world and inexperienced in management.

Along come the 60’s with lots of social turmoil and the 70’s, which brought a massive influx of students in the boomer generation, and they are overwhealmned.
As the next tier of monastics form under them their communication channel is now filtered: they only get select and biased information.

This certainly provides a climate for the growing organization to develop tumors in it’s makeup and as a result we now have the mass exodus of monastics, physical and mental disorders of many that still remain, behavior that is abusive, and the fundamentalism that spouts forth when ever anything is challenged.

On one post the question was posed what do the leaders fear?

Here’s my hypothesis:
They passed their adolescence in the presence and influence of a dynamic, charismatic spiritual leader. What else could possibly top that? (Reflect on your own adolescence…I’m sure you find many of the most formative experiences of your life). For the rest of their lives that would be the pinnacle of their experiences, anything else is bound to be disappointing.

As time goes on and they are responsible for more and as the visibility of the organization grows public perception becomes a priority, especially with the management one layer down. Now what happens is what I call the “Wizard of Oz” syndrome: they HAVE to look all-powerful. What would people think if they knew what we really are like? And this is reinforced with all the starry-eyed devotes putting the fundamental questions of life at their feet. So the long winded answer to what are they afraid of is not living up to the expectation of a “spiritual leader’, especially in charge of the organization founded by a pioneer like Yogananda. And fear will make people do some heinous things.

I hope I get some comments on this post. I really would like to understand.


Been there
Unregistered User
(11/4/01 9:48 am)
Reply 		Feedback for One for All
Very well put, One for All. Add to this mix the "firing" of Kriyananda, the vice president, back in the early sixties. No doubt this was a big move for these relatively young women, and the way it backfired on them must have made them draw even closer together in mistrust of anyone outside their small circle.
I too am inspired by the postings of the people you mentioned. And I understand that can be sad to read what you call the "rantings" of those ex-monastics and other "insiders" who have been so hurt. But try to remember that "ranting" or "venting" is an important step in healing and this board helps with that. These people were not allowed to have feelings or human needs for a long time, and they need to talk freely without worrying about how they come across. Thanks for listening.

One for all
Unregistered User
(11/4/01 4:07 pm)
Reply 		Bantering
Dear Been there

One of the reasons why I usually don’t participate on boards is that things are often misinterpreted. When I used the phrase “At times it saddens me to read some of the banter” I meant the going back and forth on posts in an argumentative way.

I agree with you that feelings need to be expressed, especially if for a long time they’ve not been expressed openly. What I suggest is that they be validated. By that I mean that when an emotion is expressed and communicated to another person, the person on the observing end acknowledges what they observe: “you seem happy, sad, angry, upset, irritated, etc. This also means that the observer is only observing, not agreeing, disagreeing or judging. This process allows the person expressing the feeling to either confirm or clarify: “No I wasn’t irritated, I’m really annoyed.” By being validated the person feeling these emotions now has confirmation of what they are feeling and can allow that emotion to take it’s natural course. It also helps to identify emotions and trace their causes.

So I feel sad when I see people exchange posts without someone really understanding them. I hope I put it clearly this time. Please let me know what your take on this is.


Been there
Unregistered User
(11/4/01 5:20 pm)
Reply 		Thanks, One for All
I think I understand you clearly now. Thanks for clarifying and understanding.

srfwalrus
ezOP
(11/4/01 5:45 pm)
Reply 		Re: Bantering
Yes, thank you for this post. This is the spirit we hoped, and hope, will prevail on this board. To date, we have filtered or edited hardly at all, only in very extreme cases. We would like to keep it that way. However, we will not allow one or two persons to "hijack" or sidetrack the fruitful and helpful conversations that are taking place.

Musicman
Unregistered User
(11/5/01 2:56 pm)
Reply 		Thinking and feeling
One For All has expressed some keen insights into this whole phenomenon of the SRF leadership. For so long we looked at them as demi-gods; now, it might be useful to remember that behind that collective facade are some frightened young girls who have been traumatized and are passing their trauma on to others. But I'm not a psychiatrist and would hesitate to take it any further than that.

I remember, though, that on one of her tapes, Ma says that the divine man never lets anyone know what he is feeling within. Even in his darkest moments, he confides in God alone. That may work for some, but for most people that spells repression, big time. The results can be psychologically catastrophic, even for long-time monastics. We have all known people in SRF, perhaps even ourselves, who were really struggling with issues but had no one to turn to. I'll never forget one of the most chilling experiences I ever had in SRF. One Friday night at a long meditation, years ago at Lake Shrine, a strange counterpoint emerged during the chanting. I couldn't make it out at first, but then I realized, yes, someone was sobbing uncontrollably. My ungenerous (and typically self-absorbed) assessment at the time was, "Oh, God, another nut case at Friday-night meditation. I thought I left this sort of thing behind at Hollywood." (Obviously, I hadn't been at the Lake very long.) Anyway, I opened my eyes and looked around. Much to my amazement, the Brother leading the chanting was the source of the commotion, and he was crying out in a piteous way for Ma. It sent chills up and down my spine. Now, to be fair, Bro. Turiyananda had recently passed away at the Lake, and this particular monk was notorious for his public outbursts (and his fierce temper). However, this went beyond anything I had ever expected or seen. Clearly, the man needed a shrink, fast! After the service, I expected my fellow devotees to express concern for his mental welfare. But one person in particular summed up the reaction: "Did you see how he regained his composure? What a yogi!" Again, I'm not a shrink, but this seemed downright unhealthy.

This board serves a very therapeutic function by allowing people to say things they couldn't say anywhere else. It may get raw and agitated at times, but some people have 20 years or more of pent-up frustration, and they must be heard. Non-SRFer's don't understand, and most insiders don't want to hear it. Where is a person to turn? This board is a good place. I, for one, don't mind.

Yuga
Unregistered User
(11/6/01 9:47 pm)
Reply 		therapy
Musicman, I do not think it's unhealthy to cry out when one is deeply absorbed in God, and asking for God's help. This board serves a very good function for many of us who are frustrated, it's true. Is therapy the answer to our problems? Not always. It seems many here are bestowing a pyschological solution, which I find hard to understand, given my love for God and Guruji. I am trying to understand how to help make my situation and SRF better.

KS
Unregistered User
(11/7/01 8:13 am)
Reply 		Cry Out
I suspect Musicman saw him crying out due to some mental suffering, some depression. I don't think the comment was generated based on his crying out in devotion for God.

Musicman
Unregistered User
(11/7/01 9:26 am)
Reply 		Crying out
Point well taken, Yuga; I should have been more clear. He was not crying out in a fit of devotional ardor. He was clearly upset and disturbed. He was having a breakdown. I should have explained that at the end of the meditation he apologized and offered a brief explanation (things had been stressful). I felt then, and still feel, that the episode was inappropriate, even if it had been motivated by devotion. Yes, it is not uncommon for someone to cry out to Master, Ma, or God during devotional chanting, but if it alarms, upsets, distracts, and confuses others, as that episode certainly did, then it is not appropriate during group meditation. It seemed to me to represent the kind of psychological stress the monks were under and clearly not able to cope with. There were other incidents with senior monastics I witnessed over the years that I don't want to go into. This was simply one more example of what I suspected was an unhealthy psychological environment in the ashram. I may be wrong, and I would love to be corrected. But everything I have read on this board corroborates my suspicions at that time.

I offer this specific incident only because some people have complained that the complainers are not citing specific examples and talk too much in generalities. It's hard to be specific without stepping on toes, naming names, etc., and that's as close as I want to get. But there is a bona fide example of what many have been talking about.

Shadowman
Unregistered User
(11/7/01 10:47 am)
Reply 		Murder by Stress?
Brother Turiyananda was then relatively young when he passed away. I know he had surgery a year or two prior, but he didn't seem in critical condition. Does anyone know what caused his death? It has left an enduring quesion mark in my head. Even back then, before I knew anything about SRF intrigues, I had an unsettling feeling that his rapid demise was somehow related the organization. Maybe due to extreme stress or an unconscious (or conscious) desire to
get away. Anyone esle care to comment? Musicman?

Been there
Unregistered User
(11/7/01 2:48 pm)
Reply 		Yearning to "get away"
It is an acceptable and almost universal aspect of the ashram culture to yearn for death. Passing from this world is the monastic's opportunity for the long-awaited reward -- direct perception of God and delivery from the misery of life on this plane. One ex-nun was heard to say " Ah, the ashram. Where depression is a way of life!"
And one of the senior monks is always talking about how he hopes to make his address at Forest Lawn very soon.

Shadowman
Unregistered User
(11/7/01 11:44 pm)
Reply 		Sad this life, sad next life.
I have disappointing news for them. Those tendencies for depression trail into the next life. I should know. I'm convinced I died that way in a past life (as a Catholic monk). My "reward" for living so stoically was another incarnation (this one) spend fighting and struggling with the samskaras I created in the last one.

I've earned the right to say the following: If one doesn't find joy and grace within the present life, the problems repeat in a different form. To think any other way is to misunderstand the law of karma.

KS
Unregistered User
(11/8/01 7:05 am)
Reply 		Rewards - next life and life beyond
To Shadowman: You are right. They themselves, within SRF, say the same thing. The way you end this life is the way you start your time in "heaven" and beyond. To think of life of suffering, or a life of controling others with fear in your heart, will end up with anything else in the afterlife is not logical. I would not look forward to their fate. When they meet Master when they pass he will show them what opportunities they have missed.

The monastics and members who are also supporting the disease will also be shown the missed opportunity. I even will myself. Uh oh.

Hey, I think I'll meditate a little more this morning before I go into work!

Yuga
Unregistered User
(11/8/01 4:15 pm)
Reply 		next life
Very thought-provoking, KS & Shadowman. One of my depressions in recent months has been for our organization, how we are treating others. The way out of worrying about oneself is to help others, to give joy and love to others in need, thus loosening the grip the ego has on our own attachment to depression.

One for All
Unregistered User
(11/24/01 1:50 pm)
Reply 		History
Here is a site with a SRF Timeline
www.geocities.com/College...MELINE.htm

Musicman
Unregistered User
(11/28/01 11:57 am)
Reply 		Turiyananda's death
In a belated response to Shadowman and others who threw so much interesting light on depression as a way of life in the ashram, I don't know much about Turiyananda's passing. I do remember his saying shortly before his death that he was practicing the EEs several times a day, so clearly he was struggling with something. We were told he passed away in his sleep, with a seraphic smile on his face, of course. I doubt any of us could find out the real circumstances now. The death cult, though, is alive and well in SRF. Many years ago, when I was working at the old print shop on Newell, there was a lot of commotion in the media about a supposed alignment of the planets that was going to cause real catastrophes on earth, due to increased gravitational pull from various forces. Anyway, I read in a science journal that this was a big hoax cooked up by former NASA employees, who, seeing the panic it was causing, had confessed that the "Jupiter effect" (as their book on the subject was called) was bogus. Well, my fellow devotee-employees didn't want to hear about science. They were really looking forward to the cataclysm and didn't want rationalist types like me raining on their parade. When the appointed day came for all hell to break loose, nothing happened. You've never seen such a sullen, crestfallen group of folks. They were really disappointed. (No one gave me any credit, of course, but I didn't say I told you so, either.) I thought, what kind of empty lives must we be leading that such a horrible thing would actually excite us and arouse our keep anticipation? In fact, they were hoping the world would finally get what was coming to it, and that the tedium and boredom of their lives would somehow be relieved. And we all know that Anandamoy is quick to point out that life is a school and death is the good part. Maybe that's true in a way, but to dwell on it, to find some satisfaction in it, strikes me as perverse. Only people who have insulated themselves from life, from love and joy, could feel that way.

Rigiditananda
Unregistered User
(12/4/01 1:40 am)
Reply 		Why the SRF death cult
Dear PSchuppe

SRF unhealthy attitude about desires is central to what has been called in this board "the SRF death cult." It is also central to why many of us today are mentally imbalance instead of God realized. It is also central to why monastic thinking is dangerous for the householder. It is also central to why we householder need to have a finger in the pie -- in the teachings, in the lessons, in the SRF board and so on. This issue -- the attitude about our needs and desires -- is the most crucial we could ever discuss here in this board --and I'm not exaggerating. Let us see.

Desire Thy Worst Enemy" Sounds familiar?

Let us be objective in regard to this philosophy:

Objectively, to make love is fun, isn't it or not? To listen to a beautiful music is fun, to eat a good meal with a cup of good wine is fun, to drink a wonderful Italian cappuccino with a friend is fun, to look at a beautiful sunset is fun, to write at the EZboard is fun, to study is fun, to enjoy romance is fun, to travel is fun, to serve God through our vocation is fun, to create is fun, to serve other is fun, and on goes the list.

However, to enjoy these things we need to have the desire to enjoy them. If we do not want to listen to music we will not enjoy it. If we do not want to make love we "will not perform adequately." If we do not want to enjoy a good meal, even if we eat it, it will taste poorly.

Objectively, desire and needs, are the interface between the enjoyable experiences this world can offer and our inner experience of pleasure and joy as we indulge in them. If we have no desires -- or we deny having them --we can't enjoy life. It is that simple!

Note that most of the above fun things are sensory experiences. Regardless, there is no doubt about it, those things make life fun and beautiful. But, in the SRF culture we developed contempt for all that. So? What can we expect now? Death at the end of the road to save us from boredom and inner conflict; of course.

This stupid obsession with renunciation -- coming obviously from monastic thinking -- cannot make us happy, impossible! If we shun off all the beautiful experiences of life -- what can we expect? What is left? Just the negative experiences are left -- disease, boredom, failure, and so. Objectively, there is also plenty of that in life too.

Then the monastics says: Oh but God's joy is better -- if you have that joy you have all. Of course, but, again, let us be objective here; most people do not have that unconditional joy -- and we may not have it despite decades or lifetimes of hard work. So, what should we do in the meantime? Get depressed and wish to go to Forest Lawn asap like Anandamoy wants now? Mental disorders do not help to find GOD!

Why not enjoying the fun side of life -- moderately of course -- and without guilt! Be thankful for that night making love, or for having a stimulating conversation with a friend. And, in the meantime, patiently attempting through meditation to contact the highest joy within. When that happens we will not need so much the external things -- in a very natural process.

See how different is the path of the householder than that of the monastic? The monastic is obsessively trying to curb their needs and desires. The householder does not need to do that -- his/her path is much more balanced and eventually, in my opinion, paradoxically, faster too.

Our path as householders have been contaminated badly by the monastic thinking -- with dreadful consequences for many. And this is why I repeat here: We householder need to have a finger in the pie -- in the teachings, in the lessons, in the SRF board and so on.

Matador Board 
Registered User
(6/28/02 6:09 am)
Reply 		Re: Bantering
Caring for of our own cattle, being quite free to put messages here, our purpose is becoming a little disappointing, perhaps -

After reading through the string, these things pop up:

Q. What do the SRF leaders fear if they wish for death?
A. To live, really live, perhaps.

Q. Caring for our own cows, trying to gather factual information in a bigger picture concerning SRF, what do we have do wade through on this board?
A. Numerous disappointing rationalizations, a lot of other issues, and illuminating points.

Q. How can you take care of your cattle if you have to weep for God Mom, yearn for kriya-death or cling to gurus?
A. By stepping on some Big Toes, maybe. Keep it up, Gitano/Musicman.

Matador Board

Edited by: Matador Board at: 6/28/02 6:22:30 am
prssmd
Registered User
(12/9/03 11:15 pm)
Reply 		Re: Why the SRF death cult; Rigiditananda
Rigiditananda has written an interesting piece on renunciation (see above). He or she writes, "Our path as householders have been contaminated badly by the monastic thinking -- with dreadful consequences for many." And, "This stupid obsession with renunciation -- coming obviously from monastic thinking -- cannot make us happy." I basically agree with him or her. However, we must realize that some of the greatest yogis of our day have taken renunciation to be an ESSENTIAL part of the spiritual life. For example, Swami Chidananda, successor of the late Swami Sivananda of Rishikesh, says "The spiritual life starts with your recognition that as long as you keep going headlong in the pursuit of sense satisfaction and pleasure, you are not going to move one step. You will not have even started. The beginning stage itself of the spiritual life is a turning away from sense experience and sense indulgence, and starting to move in the opposite direction." And the Buddhist abbot and scholar Bhante Henepola Gunaratana, who has been celibate since he was twelve, says "The Buddha taught that as long as one is engaged in sexual activity, then one would not be interested in practicing spiritual life; these two just don't go together." Why do masters such as Chidananda and Gunaratana feel so strongly that renunciation is an ESSENTIAL part of the spiritual life? I am not sure, and it is difficult for me to see the matter from their perspective, but their views deserve respect on account of their high level of attainment.

Edited by: prssmd at: 12/9/03 11:17 pm
username
Registered User
(12/10/03 8:17 am)
Reply 		Re: Why the SRF death cult; Rigiditananda
If I remember correctly there have been allegations against Chidananda.

Punk Yogi
Registered User
(12/10/03 4:43 pm)
Reply 		To prssmd
Everybody "expert" has their opinion on this.

For every holy man who advocates celebacy, there is one who says the opposite.

Try both ways and see what works for you.

There are no cookie cutter one-size-fits-all solutions to when one is dealing with the infinite.

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