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worried
Unregistered User
(12/16/01 6:38 pm)
 Bad counsel by monastics
When I was going through the biggest test in my life which lasted several years I called up mother center a few times. I got to speak to four or five different monks over a period of time. Their treatment and counsel ranged from average/non effectual to downright rude. I never gave my name, and after reading this board I'm glad I didn't, I don't really want them marking my file! I even wanted to write a letter to mother center seeking written advice but I'm glad I didn't. When things got so bad for me and I was at the end of my rope I was suicidal. I called Brother Anandamoy for an appointment and he met with me at the Pasadena temple for an hour. Since he is widely regarded as the cream of the crop at SRF and he is so respected for his great talks and his sage counsel, I thought for sure he would help me get out of the dark abyss I was in. I was so disappointed! He seemed so disinterested and aloof ( I could imagine him thinking "what you are going through is nothing" like he used to say of the people who came to master for advice ). Finally he just said a few things like do the energization exercises and read the lessons daily, which I thought if that were the solution to my problems I wouldn't be actively planning my own death! He even gave me that tired old line "You're just a Cadillac stuck in the mud." Oh boy, I bet he says that to everybody. Anyway, I was so disappointed. How come he comes up with such great stuff when he gives a talk but when someone is desperate and at the rock bottom of their lives ready to commit suicide he can only say you're a cadillac in the mud? I was so disappointed when I left there that day I contemplated throwing myself off a cliff into the pacific ocean. Oh well, somehow I lived, i don't know how. I think he asked me for my full name. I guess there's a black mark on my record now.

In Recovery
Unregistered User
(12/16/01 7:57 pm)
 Worried
Dear Worried,

I'm so sorry to hear how poorly you were treated. But I'm glad you stayed around and pulled through your hard times. Thanks for sharing.

Happy holidays to you! and welcome to the club.

Raja Begum
Unregistered User
(12/17/01 1:28 am)
 To Worried
Dear worried,

Your story touched me. I had a similar experience. The lack of humanity, benevolence and empathy in this organization is astounding. Trust your feelings. I'm glad you pulled through.

Musicman
Unregistered User
(12/17/01 11:07 am)
 SRF Mud
Sorry you had such a depressing experience, Worried. Now you know that you are not alone. I often noticed that a minister's public persona could vary radically from his one-on-one way of relating to people. As you read further on this board, you will discover that Anandamoy is a VW stuck in the La Brea Tar Pits, and he couldn't really help you even if his life depended on it (which wouldn't be much of a motivator because he's looking forward to death anyway). You asked him for a way out of the maze of depression, without knowing that he has yet to find his own way out. He's one miserable dude. You will also discover that he's not an exception. Monastics who have escaped Mother Center all report that depression is a way of life there, and that some of those still in are suicidal. I can't imagine how this would brighten your day, except to realize that, despite what one so often feels after meeting with monastics, you are not the problem, they are. Yes, you're stuck in the mud--the mud of SRF.

premdas
Registered User
(12/17/01 12:45 pm)
 Worried, hopefully no more!
Maybe it is a blessing for all that you are being intelligent and reacting to their lack of love. Do you want to remain in the mud, or as Master poignently remarked, "stuck in a chicken coop (sp)? And have your head cut off?". You are an independent soul, loved by God & guru. Banish weakness. Go on alone.

username
Registered User
(12/17/01 2:37 pm)
 Re: depression
I was depressed about one month after getting involved with SRF. The depression finally lifted about one year after being away from SRF. Funny though at the time it never crossed my mind that it had to do with SRF but it did. I just thought I wasn't doing everything right, so I would try harder to NOT DO all the things SRF told me I wasn't supposed to do.

SRF is evil (absence of light) if this is the result that is being received. Depression (is heavy, is dark ) is definitely an absence of light!

witness
Unregistered User
(12/18/01 11:23 am)
 Knock, Knock, Knocking On Heaven's Door
Dear Worried,
I refer you to my post of today under CORE ISSUES/ WHAT WILL WE ASK? for further examples of bad counseling by disinterested, distant and, in Andandamoy's case, dysfunctional monastics.
This is reminding me of the time one of the monks, a rather morose fellow who once stated he was only in the ashram so he would accumulate enough good karma to have a great marriage in the next life, was on duty as a phone counselor. His advice to a troubled couple didn't exactly spring from the fount of divine wisdom. Nor should he have ever been placed in such a ridiculous postion.

peer345
Registered User
(12/18/01 3:56 pm)
 Re: bad counsel
This kind of thing has really pissed me off about SRF - a totally inept capacity to listen and take seriously the life of the emotions. They seem to have nothing of value to say in this regard and it was why I found the lessons completely infuriating, indeed I found them downright insulting and it was for this reason I didn't get the last volume. I couldn't imagine them getting better!

Honestly you really wonder this organisation and whether it is worth giving anymore time to in either thought, word or deed!!

peer

RedsterLA
Registered User
(1/29/02 7:23 pm)
 Re: Bad counsel by monastics
I'm sorry you did not receive the kind of counseling you felt you needed in your situation.

My experiences have been decidedly different, and in one case, was exactly what I needed, even though I didn't know it at the time.

I'd had a particularly trying time over a period of a year or so—and things came to a shattering halt just a few days before the Christmas Open House at Mother Centre. Long story, but suffice it to say, things sucked and I was more depressed, unhappy and hurt than I'd ever been in my life. I'd thought of going to Brother Bhaktananda about the situation, but thought, "No—it's just too petty. There are people with really big, important problems who needs his help. I don't want to bother him."

I was sitting in the library downstairs, in the chair that is very high and whose back faces the door. Unless one is really tall, it's almost impossible to see who is sitting there.

Well, as I was moping and feeling sorry for myself, I heard from the other side of the doorway, Brother Bhaktananda greeting me by name.

He came into the room and sat on the couch next to me, and started chit-chatting—asking me how things were going, etc., and I could see he knew something was up and was attempting to get me to "spill."

Well, I avoided the whole subject and told him that lots of times during the holidays I missed my father (who died when I was 17), and I was feeling a little sad (which I was, but it wasn't the major reason for my upset).

Anyway... Brother just accepted my communication and spoke lovingly and caringly, but without any specific advice or anything, then said that they were getting ready to close up, so we'd better go.

As we crossed the threshold, he turned to me and said goodnight, then added, "It's never a bother to me, and it's not petty. If it's a concern for you, and is an upset for you, it's important."

I was stunned that he'd actually given me back my own thoughts, and subsequently went to him for counseling on the difficulties. I received nothing but sage advice (even some advice I really didn't want to hear, but turned out to be the right things to do), and came through a very dark time because of his caring.

I also received very good counseling from the late Bramachari Isaac on a number of occasions. I held him in very high esteem and he was close to my heart as a Divine friend.

fromLA
Unregistered User
(1/30/02 7:02 am)
 to Redster
There is no question Brother Bhaktananda is a saint. I believe he has more realization than all the other monastics (yes, ALL) put together. You are truly fortunate to have been able to meet and talk with him.

He is the exception that proves the rule. This whole board is about the terrible treatment in every area that large numbers of people have received at the "official" hands of SRF. Perhaps you have not. That is good for you, but please do not attempt to de-legitimize the very real experiences of others by implying that they would all have your good experiences if they only had the right attitude. This is the not-so-subtle message behind all your posts, spread around all over this board.

This topic-response has been thoroughly worked, but since you are new I'll repeat it: There is no question that each person receives only what their own karma allows, and that we each need to learn and grow from everything that God brings to us. That is no excuse for those who put themselves in the flow of negativity to become instruments of pain. And it does not mean that part of our learning and growing is to avoid confronting evil when we face it.

If you don't believe the people posting here, fine. We have no reason to believe you, either. My own experience corroborates yours with Brother B. But my own experience also corroborates the horrific experiences of others with SRF in general, and with many specific monastics in particular.

anonymous
Unregistered User
(1/30/02 4:06 pm)
 Anandamoy
Quote:
How come [Bro. Anandamoy] comes up with such great stuff when he gives a talk but when someone is desperate and at the rock bottom of their lives ready to commit suicide he can only say you're a cadillac in the mud?

A good part of the difference undoubtedly comes from the fact that Anandamoy will (according to Br. Lee) put up to eighty hours of preparation into a convocation talk, even to the point of practicing facial expressions and hand gestures.

"Informal" talks, speaking spontaneously from intuition? Yeah, sure.

Lobo
Registered User
(1/30/02 5:21 pm)
 Re: Bad counsel by monastics
Redster,

Thanks for posting that inspirational story. I think sometimes we get so disgusted with the actions of some of the leaders of SRF that we forget the goodness that does exist in the organization, if not anywhere else than in the purity of the highest realized monastics such as Bhaktanandaji. I also met Brahmacharyi Issac and felt such wonderful vibes from him, so caring was he.

I, for one don't believe that we should just concentrate on the negative. That is what this board seems to be going toward and is a mistake in my opinion. SRF has good and bad within it. If we continue only to look at the bad without also seeing and acknowledging the good we will not help the work to change and grow as it has to in order to survive.

Certainly it is not wrong to post good accounts that people have had. Why condemn those who do so? We don't want to become the opposite of the yogananda.net site with its inability to admit any shortcomings of SRF, or its current leaders. Surely the balance between the two must be the right place for those, at least, who want to remain members of SRF but don't necessarily want to attend services, donate money, or help those who are in power to twist, airbrush, change, and decimate the teachings and the work.

KS
Registered User
(1/30/02 8:17 pm)
 Negative
Yes, this board is mostly focused on what is wrong with SRF. As I see it this board is for those with long experience with SRF who have some stories and ideas to share. It is about improving what we have seen or recoverying from the treatment we have been subjected to.

There are plenty of places to discuss the other stuff. This is for alternative information about SRF.

On the other hand I would of course agree there is much goodness in some of the people inside. Br. Issac was a nice man and tried to be helpful. He was retired to Hollywood Temple which most of us Walrus people probably see as an indication that he didn't fit into the royal court mentality at mother center. This is a good sign for him and ensures his place in the Walrus Hall of Fame.

Note that three Brothers are now exiled to Hollywood Temple!

Edited by: srfwalrus at: 4/18/02 6:15:44 am
RedsterLA
Registered User
(1/31/02 8:05 pm)
 To xxxxxxxxxxxxx
"...But perhaps he/she has not questioned SRF about certain things, and just accepts all SRF teaches, etc..."

Actually, I question things daily -- and whenever I get stymied I meditate and ask that answers come from those efforts. Sometimes I find that my mind gets in the way and when I let the intellect go I get more workable answers.

"...Perhaps, Redster should reveal who he/she is..."

I did in my post in the "SRF Teachings & Ideals" area which was in reply to a series of pointed questions.

"...I also noticed that Redster felt that we should mention exactly what happened, but if we did, then we would no longer be incognito..."

Perhaps I expressed myself poorly. A lot of what I saw kind of hedged around things and seemed very cagy and, frankly, sort of paranoid and generalised. My intent was to relay that those who have experienced the same situation at the same time with the same individuals involved, should, perhaps, band together and see if they can collectively come up with something that might be able to "tumble the walls of Jericho" (so to speak). When people have experienced the same thing, there is a strength in their unity -- but one cannot band together if they don't know if they shared the same specific circumstance, or whether it was an unrelated, but similar event.

"...I just forgive them and no longer expect anything from them..."

That's what my grandmother used to say -- that since people were imperfect, we shouldn't look to them for perfection, and that we should go directly to the source -- God.

Also... Yogananda said that we shouldn't have expectations of others. Perhaps that's why the "crashes" have been even more severe than had the same occurrences been experienced in the "outside" world. We have a higher expectation of behaviour for those who have access to this storehouse of incredible knowledge and teachings and are supposed to be administering them. But that's sort of like having a library all to oneself -- it's great that you have all the books, but if you don't read them, how does that enhance your knowledge?

"...I realize that perhaps he/she has not had our experiences..."

For the most part, no I have not. I have had a few "run-ins" with other devotees and monastics -- where I felt their behaviour was not necessarily optimum, but I'm fortunate that my home Temple has always been Hollywood, and that Brother Bhaktananda is who he is. That said, my personal knowledge of a certain unseemly situation could have soured me (at the very least, on the clergy, if not on the path), had I not observed the behaviour of the woman involved and been privy to conversations with her regarding the monk in question.

God's little joke, though... for years I lived within walking Fullerton Temple and wasn't on the path. For years after that, I lived very close to Hollywood Temple and wasn't on the path. For several years I lived relatively close to Pasadena Temple and wasn't on the path. I ended up stumbling onto the path when I was about 25-35 miles from any Temple. Hollywood was not the closest, but I had friends there, so that's where I went.

And as an FYI...

I don't discount anyone's personal experiences, I simply think that as we try to deal with the things that have been thrown our way we should not resort to the tactics we complain about in others -- it makes us no better -- in my opinion, it's even worse because we know from experience as the target how bad it feels when an arrow hits its mark.

Edited by: srfwalrus at: 4/16/02 8:40:53 pm
RedsterLA
Registered User
(1/31/02 8:14 pm)
 To fromLA (and a note to Lobo)
"...please do not attempt to de-legitimize the very real experiences of others by implying that they would all have your good experiences if they only had the right attitude. This is the not-so-subtle message behind all your posts, spread around all over this board...."

I do not discount, nor do I take lightly the experiences of others. I was simply trying to show that there IS another side of the coin, and to point out the individuals who provided such wonderful assistance to me. Virtually all the posts I happened to read (and I read a lot of them) were negative, and I wanted to remind people that it is NOT all negative, even within the "ranks" of SRF -- that there are some positive things to hold onto as one heals.

You have also read into my posts an intention that is not there. I never said, nor do I think that everyone would have had good experiences by simply having the "right" attitude. That said, I know that when I've been befelled by bad experiences (and believe me, there have been many in my life as well), my attitude is what determines whether or not I stay sad, depressed, angry or otherwise upset. I have a choice as to whether I stay stuck in the upset or if I come up with positive solutions as to how to (1) get out of the trouble, and (2) stay out of similar trouble in the future.

I also happen to agree with Lobo who said:

"...I, for one don't believe that we should just concentrate on the negative. That is what this board seems to be going toward and is a mistake in my opinion. SRF has good and bad within it. If we continue only to look at the bad without also seeing and acknowledging the good we will not help the work to change and grow as it has to in order to survive..."

And I would be honoured to work with such a person to try and help toward that goal.

How can this be
Unregistered User
(2/28/02 4:10 pm)
 Marital Counciling
An SRF Nun counseled a SRF woman, who was having an affair outside of her marriage, with this unbelievable spiritual guidance.

"What ever comes to you is yours!"

gardendiva
Registered User
(5/10/02 3:36 pm)
 Counseling
I can't tell you how many times I've thought about counseling with a monastic, only to change my mind because I felt I knew exactly what they would say. After one or two sessions of spiritual counsel, it seemed I was always getting the same advice.

In recent times I've questioned whether Yogananda really was my "guru." It's been difficult at times to know which way to go. I knew that if I went to a monastic for counseling, I would be told that, since I've taken kriya etc. etc., of course he is my guru and I'm here because I'm supposed to be. This has happened before, but my quandaries have grown deeper of late.

Finally, I decided that I just have to go with my heart. I need to go within and follow what truth I find there. I decided that all the stuff I've heard about leaving this path and not being able to get the opportunity for "another 10 lifetimes" or something like that, has nothing to do with my own relationship with God. Being raised Catholic, the guilt factor is very strong!!

Soros1
Registered User
(5/12/02 5:56 pm)
 Re: Counseling
As a devotee in the Houston TX SRF meditation group, I sometimes wonder why people posting on this board are seeking counsel from SRF monastics on certain issues. If one is in a bad marriage, or is depressed, go see a marriage counselor or psychotherapist in private practice.To expect that a monastic( whether its Brother Anandamoy, Bhaktinanda or other brother or..... sister for that matter) is going to be trained to give you quality marital or Mental health counseling is just silly. They are well intentioned and do the best they can. I would no more expect any of the monastics to know what to advise me about improving a relationship with a spouse or any mental health issues than I would asking them for advise on how to finetune a stock market portfolio for higher returns. I would advise anyone to FIRST consider the CONTEXT in which they need help before seeking counsel from SRF.

gardendiva
Registered User
(5/12/02 7:34 pm)
 Re: Counseling
To Soros1...

I think that people go to monastics with many different types of problems, because Yogananda wrote on so many different issues in the lessons. Also, when you have a belief system that is out of the mainstream, you have a different take, frequently, on issues like relationships etc. People might feel like they would rather talk to a monastic about their marital (or other) problems because of the understanding that that person might have of their overall quest in life...to know God. It's very often difficult to find a good therapist, let alone one that will understand one's spiritual ideals.

I agree in general with what you are saying. However, if a person does go to a monastic regarding these kinds of issues, wouldn't it be better that the monastic say, "You know, I can tell you what Master said regarding your spiritual life and some simple things in the lessons, but for intense work on the issue I feel you should see a qualified therapist," instead of giving poor advice? In my experience I actually have been told that maybe seeing a therapist would be a good idea regarding my specific issue, but apparently others have had different experiences. It's hard to blame an individual who is hurting and in need of help, for poor judgment in choosing advisors. Frequently, such individuals are very confused already.

Daya Yama
Registered User
(6/23/02 8:53 am)
 Re: Bad counsel by monastics
Dear Ones,

GETTING BETTER TALES

It is first steps first: FIRST GETTING OUT OF TROUBLE if you know what it is and how to remedy it and so on, and THEN get expert councelling. Buddha has an allegory with something in it.

A man approached Buddha and wanted to have all his philosophical questions answered before he would practice. In response, Buddha said, "It is as if a man had been wounded by a poisoned arrow and when attended to by a physician were to say, 'I will not allow you to remove this arrow until I have learned the caste, the age, the occupation, the birthplace, and the motivation of the person who wounded me.' That man would die before having learned all this.’” (Abbreviated)


IT IS POSSIBLE TO STRENGHTEN ONE’S RESISTANCE

I noticed, like others on the string, what looked like unreasonable expectations by some: Expecting half-miracles from one hour’s session with someone puts a lot of pressures on such beings. That’s one part of the story.

Bad tales are told about how depression and being suicidal is into the MC (Mother Centre) culture and environment. Living in Europe, I can’t take sides now on that. I have too little information, at any rate.

I have seen that opinions differ. KS has found much good. I feel happy for that. I have been talking with both Bhaktananda and Anandamoy myself, but years ago. They were good. I can’t refrain from agreeing very much with Soros1 here, but I can’t and won’t discount that some have been disappointed. I once talked with Anandamoy and felt he saw into me or through me. Bhaktananda also informed me much at Hollywood Temple, when he headed it. I have no reason to complain about his deeds and words at all, even though following Bhaktananda’s advice on one occasion nearly had me killed one night. It was not his fault. Horrible Hollywood! Afterwards I felt disappointed, and after that again I went into nearly unbroken ecstacy for about three years.

What is more, it hurts me a bit that Bro. Anandamoy is frowned on and worse here. I can’t help thinking “What if he did not deserve it (all of it, etc)?”

It must be said, for one had better think that THE ENVIRONMENT has much to say too. It is generally decent to take that into consideration too, and not only ONESELF, the EXPERT OR COUNCELLOR (whoever that may be), and one’s SENSE OF BELONGING and EXPECTATIONS.

The art of living is not easy. I find Redster’s contributions to be good, along with the others I have been into above.

Daya Yama

Edited by: Daya Yama at: 6/23/02 8:57:22 am
Rosemarie7
Registered User
(11/10/02 8:07 pm)
 Re: Bad counsel by monastics
Hey Kids,
They have caller ID, they can look up your name in seconds.

Edited by: Rosemarie7 at: 11/10/02 8:18:18 pm
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