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SRF Walrus
Mt. Washington, Ca
Open discussions about SRF
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Unregistered User
(2/13/02 10:07 am)
 To All Users -- Please Read
All people who post on this board would be well served to keep a copy of what they post on the board. Given the heavy censorship of the board, with posts being arbitrarily deleted and edited by the administrator, there is a good chance that what you post will be gone when you come back. Simply save the messages you post in your computer if you wish to have them for future reference or for others who wish to read them after they have been deleted. By the same token, readers are advised if they see a message they like and skim over it or read it once with the intention to come back later when they have more time and read it more carefully, you should save it to your computer's hard drive when you first see it. Chances are, when you come back later looking for it, it will have disappeared.

AumBoy
Registered User
(2/13/02 1:01 pm)
 Re: To All Users -- Please Read
Quote:
Given the heavy censorship of the board
This is an untrue statement. Board is not "heavily censored". The last 2 posts removed were on Sai Baba and had nothing to do with SRF. Although, IMO, they should have been moved to Catchall, they were, unfortunately, deleted. The bottom line is that if anyone feels that there is "heavy censorship" on this board, they are free to start their own board.

If you think it heavy censorship here, try posting all of the messages on this board on another well-known board and see how many actually show up.

Lobo
Registered User
(2/13/02 1:09 pm)
 Re: To All Users -- Please Read
People on that other 'well known' board are heavily critical of this site because someone who regularly posts there and who posted some things here (he is an ex-monk) had his posts here deleted.

They are taking that to mean that anyone who opposes the 'agenda' here, meaning the destruction of SRF (their analysis of this board), and who posts to defend SRF and its methods etc., will simply be deleted.

I went back and tried to find the posts of this ex-monk as I remembered them and knew that he had engaged in a discussion with Kriyananda. But those posts had indeed been deleted so I don't really know what to make of their claims.

Reality Check
Unregistered User
(2/13/02 2:07 pm)
 Censorship
There have been many posts deleted from this board since it started, those weren't the only ones by any stretch of the imagination. And posts are frequently edited by the board moderator.

Singling out one little phrase and going off on it, or comparing this board to others is a diversionary tactic, and it's intellectually dishonest and disingenuous.

Censorship is censorship, whether it's more than, equal to, or less than the rest of the millions of boards out there.

Reality Check
Unregistered User
(2/13/02 2:11 pm)
 PS
Before someone goes off on another tangent, I'm all for deleting inappropriate posts like spam, abuse, messages that are totally unrelated to the subject of the board, etc. But that wasn't the case here.

peer345
Registered User
(2/13/02 3:01 pm)
 Re: PS
I think it is a real pity that dialogue that included Cowboy and Kriyananda was deleted. It was an important thread and did much to my mind to define what this board was about.

I agree that messages shouldn't be deleted especially in such a retrospective manner and that the Sai Baba stuff should have been moved to a more appropriate place.

Moderating is such a sensitive business - I am glad I don't have to make these decisions!!

peer

AumBoy
Registered User
(2/13/02 4:36 pm)
 Re: Censorship
You're correct: censorship is censorship. Assuming that you are both 'Save' and 'Reality Check' I have a question. I assumed I understood what you meant by "heavy censorship" which is why I chose that phrase but maybe I don't understand what you mean. What is your definition of "heavy censorship"? Some postings I have seen deleted (not including the Sai Baba posts) were intentionally derougatory. I'm assuming that those types of posts may have been ok to delete.

srfwalrus
ezOP
(2/13/02 8:45 pm)

 Re: Censorship
Indeed, censorship does exist on this board. I leave it to the readers to judge how much it helps or hurts. Where possible we are trying to maintain a focus on the situation with SRF. To new readers this is a very sensitive thing and therefore we are trying to maintain the focus and a somewhat civil tone. I hope the average reader can see there is very little censorship on this board.

I do get emails from people asking me to delete their posts, and do so. Sometimes people have second thoughts and would rather have not said some things. People also request minor edits sometimes. We don’t edit the words of others except to delete messages.

Another situation to keep in mind is that we can’t move just part of a thread. So if a thread starts off talking about “Faye and the role of men inside SRF” and turns into a discussion about Sai Baba I can leave the thread adrift, delete the whole thread, move the whole thread, or delete a few messages. I have to make a choice.

In all we have probably deleted about 20 to 25 messages in the last six months (without permission of the author). Does this seem like a lot? We don’t hide that we censor and sometimes explain the situation. In addition I have had about 9 requests to delete messages from the authors, about as many to edit them. With all the variety here does anything really think we are controlling the discussion? We still have over 3000 messages!

curious
Unregistered User
(2/13/02 9:13 pm)
 "We"
Who is "we"?

srfwalrus
ezOP
(2/13/02 9:50 pm)

 Re: "We"
Consider it the indefinite We. You don't know if there is zero, one, or many Walrii, and it will stay that way.

Crog
Unregistered User
(2/13/02 9:57 pm)
 Censorship
Good heavens. Look at all the suffering represented in the stories on this board. You all are worried about the deletion of a few off-message notes? Let's keep our eyes on the ball. This board is costing someone a few dollars, and probably some legal or intimidation risk. Let's cut the walrus some slack.

chuckle
Unregistered User
(2/13/02 9:59 pm)
 re:censorship
I appreciate your comments, Walrus. I, too, am distressed by censorship. I think it would be helpful if you would explain yourself each time you delete or edit a post. As an example, there were some posts recently about Ananda Mata. I wanted to respond to them, but they were gone (it seems) when I went back. I have no idea if the authors requested the deletions or you did it of your own volition or what. Seeing posts disappear is, I'm sure you can appreciate, somewhat disconcerting.

Regarding the Sai Baba posts--could you not have just added a note asking any further discussion of the matter to be added to the Catch All section?

I appreciate the challenges you have and appreciate this forum.

srfwalrus
ezOP
(2/13/02 10:38 pm)
 Ananda Mata?
I don't recall any of us deleting Ananda Mata messages. That seems like pretty SRF related stuff. Keep in mind that authors can delete their own messages, or edit them. (I also have trouble finding messages myself, try a GOOGLE search).

Just for the record, this board is run by Girl Scout Troop 391 in Fairview, Mississippi. We started it as a troop project. Some of the mothers didn't like us girls working on it after they read some of it and so it is down to about 12 of us doing the support. I hope this knowledge doesn't slant your opinion of this board.

willy1080
Registered User
(2/14/02 7:00 am)
 SRF View-point
I think if anyone wants to come here and put forward a SRF viewpoint , they should be welcomed to do so.
Only if there was some interaction on this issues, will solutions come of it
Happy Valentine's Day ;)

Edited by: willy1080 at: 2/14/02 7:02:46 am
Newboy
Unregistered User
(2/14/02 7:56 am)
 Goodness! how things take on a life of their own.
Walrus,

I never intended my casual reference to Sai Baba to create such a firestorm of controversy for you!Mentioning him was just part of the point I was trying to make about Roy Eugene Davis. Not mentioning him would have made the point less effective, and historically incomplete. I appreciate the purpose of this board in regards to SRF, and its treatment of monastics and householders, but since one thing leads to another, maybe there should be another catchall folder entitled, "All in the family!" Let's face it, all of the former monastics from Roy Davis to Kriyananda to Bramachari Keith who went on to teach independently of SRF have their roots in the organization. The policies and dynamics that dominate SRF have branched out and influenced these other groups whether they admit it or not. Including them all in some manner does not, it seems to me, miss the point or change the purpose of this board. If anything, including them just demonstrates how powerful and far reaching SRF is in the yoga community at large.

I admire your willingness to address these difficult issues in a balanced and fair way.

srfwalrus
ezOP
(2/14/02 3:52 pm)

 Re: Goodness! how things take on a life of their own.
Please read the Walrus' comment on the thread under Hidden Valley, "...horrors of the soul." A potential "censorship" issue in real time.

sad
Unregistered User
(2/14/02 4:05 pm)
 Re: "A potential censorship issue in real time"
Well, it looks like the Walrus(es) have learned their lesson well from SRF. At the slightest hint that something might be difficult or controversial or uncomfortable to deal with, censor it and shove it under the rug, as if it didn't exist. Whitewash and airbrush over it, exile it and banish it where no one can see it and talk about it.

You've learned well.

AumBoy
Registered User
(2/14/02 4:52 pm)
 Censorship and mischief makers
Firstly, the discussion between Kriyananda and Blue Cowboy has not been censored. It is under Ananda Related Discussions under the topic Focus on Love.

Secondly (and maybe I'm losing my mind but), something above jumped out at me from a quote above:
Quote:
Singling out one little phrase and going off on it, or comparing this board to others is a diversionary tactic, and it's intellectually dishonest and disingenuous.


Hmmmm... the phrase "dishonest and disingenuous" caught my attention. I had read this exact quote before. But where? Possibly in a deleted message or thread that was demeaning to others.

Under the HV Ashram forum, there is a person "Think about it" and "Think about it some more" that may well be the same individual. I am looking at the language usage, what I perceive as the intent behind the language, and the pattern of posting. From my perspective, the energy is the same. If you compare the language and intent with other postings by this individual, and if you were to see the demeaning postings that were deleted, you might arrive at the same conclusion.

So I now wonder what the intent of this entire thread, To All Users--Please Read, is? Is it a legitimate gripe about censorship? Or is it a method to discredit, or deligitimize, this board? Just food for thought... ;)

Well, in staying with the pattern of not answering questions and, seemingly, not wanting clarity or closure on issues, you have not answered the question as to your definition of "heavy censorship"? I don't think you have an answer because this thread, as I hinted above, has nothing to do with censorship.

AumMan
Unregistered User
(2/14/02 5:15 pm)
 Re: Censorship and mischief makers by the censors themselves
Oh so you like conspiracy theories and investigations. You spend hours if not days or weeks looking up peoples usage and measuring their energy and comparing language. And most important of all you have access to the contents of deleted messages that the rest of us cant see. By your same token we could say that you are one of the censors-or to put it more mildly-one of the moderators of the board; one of the "walruses" or shall we say "walrii" as the head honcho so comically put it. it seems you have answered your own question as to who is using methods to "discredit" and "deligitimize" this board? you couldnt argue the people's points so you attack them and spend long hours digging up dirty and mud to fling at them. oh well at least now we know where your coming from.

onlylove
Unregistered User
(2/14/02 5:17 pm)
 Censorship and mischief makers
Quote:
So I now wonder what the intent of this entire thread, To All Users--Please Read, is? Is it a legitimate gripe about censorship? Or is it a method to discredit, or deligitimize, this board? Just food for thought...


I believe you're right, aumboy. This is an attempt to deligitimize this board, in my opinion, and to distract people from the real issues being presented here. That's why it's important that this is a moderated board. And I believe that the Walrus is doing a great job of moderating.

Moderation doesn't equal censorship. It's been said here before, and bears repeating: It's easy to start one's own message board if you want to turn it in a different direction. The SRF Devotee Message Board is even more heavily moderated, but that's entirely their choice.

Complaints about 'censorship' would be deleted there before they even appeared, so in the world of message boards, the moderating here is pretty moderate!

AumMan
Unregistered User
(2/14/02 5:29 pm)
 "onlylove"
if you all think that the srf devotee board is the best model for this or any discussion board I pity you. Some contact with the outside world might do you some good. What good would a board full of people who totally agree with each other do? There's only so many "SRF sucks" messages you can post and read before anyone with any intelligence leaves and you'd be left with these "only love" bliss bunnies telling each other how much they love each other 24 hours a day. God spare us all from a world like that.

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