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SRF Walrus

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SRF Walrus > SRF Teachings and Ideals > We are the Borg
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Borg108 Registered User (1/23/03 8:31 am) Reply	We are the Borg We are the SRF/Borg. We are eternal. We strive for perfection. Existence as we once knew it is over. Many do not yet understand. SRF/Borg is destined to become the world's collective religion. It must therefore be perfect. It will inspire the many to behave as the One and to live harmoniously within the collective mind. We will always appear positive - nanoprobes are in place. Unimatrix Borg will wear brown pants and have short hair. Tertiary Borg will wear blue suits. Do not worry about the hive queen at tertiary unimatrix Sierra Madre. Do not fret about lawsuits, harsh treatment, misinformation or non-disclosures. All will be absorbed. If not in this life, then in some other. Astral 7 of 12 has already been absorbed. Resistence is futile. Hugh former Unimatrix adjunct "In their collective state, the [SRF] Borg are utterly without mercy... They are beyond redemption... beyond reason." -Captain Jean Luc Picard (Locutus) Edited by: Borg108 at: 2/27/03 8:25:07 am
psychdev Registered User (1/24/03 11:40 pm) Reply	Re: We are the Borg Dear Borg, Your reply is clever, amusing, and well written. It also suggests a mind that deals with the world in the same black-and-white, we-against-them terms as the very "Borg" you describe. In other words, it is the very essence of group-think. How ironic. Edited by: psychdev at: 1/24/03 11:41:07 pm
KS Registered User (1/25/03 5:58 am) Reply	Re: We are the Borg That is part of his/her joke. At some point all we can do is make fun of the SRF cult. We were fooled and that is embarassing but in the end their actions were pretty funny. Imagine the great Saturday Night Live routines playing with the internal SRF culture. I can see a poor employee in a stall in a mother center bathroom running out of toilet paper. Help! Help! A nun comes to the door and finds out what the problem is. With great concern in her heart she forms a committee to look into it. Then she hires a consultant to review the situation (members are not trusted). A lot of material there!
psychdev Registered User (1/25/03 2:37 pm) Reply	Re: We are the Borg <<That is part of his/her joke. At some point all we can do is make fun of the SRF cult...> Yes, I believe this is true. Indeed, the best way to avoid meaningful discussion is simply to ridicule the opposition. It works in politics, so why not here? Isn't it interesting that you've failed to respond, KS, to the repeated and sincere question: "How do you distinguish between SRF as a "cult" and Franciscans, Amish, Mennonites, or even Buddish sects"? What distinguishes SRF from thes groups, so that SRF is a "cult" and the latter are not? No answer so far--either from you or others. It appears that you're content with mindlessly repeating, endlessly, the catch-word "cult"--much in the same way that people used to use the word "communist" or "deviant", or whatever label was convenient to hand. Requires no thinking, no evidence, and no responsibility-taking. I think any reasonable person reading this BB will understand the real issues. If at some point you're interested in real discussion about the "cult" status of SRF, I look foreword to a productive exchange. Currently, that's obviously not part of your agenda. Edited by: psychdev at: 1/25/03 7:57:27 pm
KS Registered User (1/25/03 8:09 pm) Reply	CULT CULT CULT CULT For heavens sake! The term cult is going to mean different things to different people. Do I intend to argue the definition? No. Is it a use of mind control? The feeling that they are going on all jump on a comet someday? The mindless allegiance to Fay their leader? Their avoidance of their real families for those who use abusive mental techniques to control them? blah blah blah blah. You can debate it all and people here are. SRF feels it is a religion. I don’t. And to show my distain for them and to express my frustration and anger at what they are doing to Yogananda’s reputation I am calling them a cult. It is meant as an insult. Nothing really scientific, just an insult. To groups who think they are holy and religious it is generally understood that calling them a cult is an insult. There is plenty of real discussion and sharing of real experiences here on this board. Not much in a few months, which is why I don’t read much anymore, but there has been. If you need an education I suggest you read the summary they created. These are the actions of a cult (meant as an insult) pub78.ezboard.com/fsrfwalrusfrm30 After reading those there are about a thousand other good messages that explain why I might want to insult them.
X Insider Registered User (1/25/03 9:22 pm) Reply	Re: CULT CULT CULT CULT Psych dev, You wrote that you had not read reasons as to why some of us think SRF is a cult. I do not know about SRF as a whole, but it is my humble opinion that the SRF monastic order has become a cult because there is no accountability within the culture. There is no alternative body to which to "plead one's case" if one dissents, etc. One might argue that these alternative bodies within the military or the Catholic Church do not function too well, but at least the machinery is in place to call for accountability of the governing body (i.e., the Board of Directors). Such is not true in the SRF monastic order, as far as I know.
member108 Registered User (1/26/03 6:22 am) Reply	Re: CULT CULT CULT CULT Psychman, I just realized that you may be thinking that we are criticizing all of SRF as a cult. I have experienced fairly normal environments in temples and centers. The temples are a little weird sometimes but the smaller groups and centers can be wonderful places. Members out in the country and world are NOT part of a cult because they don’t operate within the rules and that oppressive controlling environment at Mother Center. Almost ALL of the complaints outlined here are with the environment at the mother center. Most of that has to do with, and was created by, the 50 or so disturbed nuns including the Matas. If you or Astral7 are out in Ohio or Germany and having a wonderful experience getting together with people studying Master’s books and praying together then GREAT!!! That is what Master intended for his message to create. That is the future of his work and is what will survive of SRF. Master did not intend to create a central all powerful monastic order filled with people giving themselves monastic names and leading people to believe they were saints! He is not to be replaced by the matas! That is slowly dying and the sooner the better. Mother Center is a mind control cult. That is separate from the sincere devotees out in the world trying to learn to meditate and behave.
username Registered User (1/26/03 8:21 pm) Reply	Re: CULT CULT CULT CULT not all groups act the same. In some groups, there is not allowed to be any contact with each other. One group went so far as setting this rule: we are NOT allowed to talk or interact at all at convocation with other members of our group!
psychdev Registered User (1/26/03 11:05 pm) Reply	Re: CULT CULT CULT CULT K.S. << It is meant as an insult.>> An honest answer. That's pretty much how I'm seeing the use of the word also--as an epithet which has a big emotional charge (EST, Scientology, Jim Jones, Heavens Gate) but which is so vague it's impossible to refute. But because it's impossible to refute, it's not necessary to take any responsibility for using the epithet. Which I regard as destructive. And really, really irresponsible. If you want to curse SRF--fine. But then take responsibility for your anger. Simply say up front, "I hate SRF" (or I hate the rigidity, or I hate Mother Center's lack of responsiveness) rather than hiding behind an abstraction ("cult"). BTW, I do NOT believe you are correct that "cult" means many different things to different people--in fact, it has a very negative connotation for all most everyone. That's the reason you are using it. So I repeat my question: How does SRF stand out as a "cult", compared to Mennonites, Jesuits, Franciscans, or more severe varieties of Buddist or Hindu sects? To date, you (and others) have not provided a meaningful response. Which strongly suggests that SRF is probably no more a cult than any major religion. I apologize for being rather strident about the issue of "cult". However, I strongly believe that people need to take responsibility for labels they use and, more importantly, take responsibility for their own feelings. IMHO, hiding behind a label or naming calling is exactly the opposite of taking personal responsibility. Further, name-calling never gets you beyond name-calling. It does not open up new ways of understanding, offer the possibility of reconciliation, or any possibility of discussion. It's a deadend. Edited by: psychdev at: 1/27/03 6:04:50 am
psychdev Registered User (1/26/03 11:08 pm) Reply	Re: CULT CULT CULT CULT username: <<not all groups act the same. In some groups, there is not allowed to be any contact with each other. One group went so far as setting this rule: we are NOT allowed to talk or interact at all at convocation with other members of our group! >> This has not been my experience... Is it really true that you belong to a meditation group where a monastic has suggested you should not talk to each other at convocation. If they did this, that's really crazy. It's really wrong. Could you provide more details, please?
psychdev Registered User (1/26/03 11:16 pm) Reply	Re: CULT CULT CULT CULT member108, I appreciate the distinction you're making between mother center and individuals or meditation groups. I truthfully have little contact with mother center, although I certainly disagree with certain of their policies (mainly the long-time lack of transparency, with resulting lack of accountability). My objection is the use of mud-slinging.... against anyone. No one is all bad ("the bad ladies") or for that matter all good (at least not anyone I've known in my life). Let's have a little maturity to try to take responsibility for our own anger, rather than hiding behind abstractions, and be specific about our complaints. One person's opinion.
psychdev Registered User (1/26/03 11:27 pm) Reply	Re: CULT CULT CULT CULT One final comment. I wanted to let people know that I am not approaching SRF as an ideologue or a rube. I lived at Ananda for several months in 1970s, and have been a Kriyaban with SRF since 1973. I've heard all the rumors, read all the books, and had a chance to talk with many Monastics. I've seen (and personally experienced) many of the problems you describe. I even wrote a letter (199 to Daya Ma expressing my strong disagreement regarding the lawsuits and my concern that SRF was "defining itself by opposition to Ananda". Perhaps it's worthwhile mentioning that the result of my rather caustic letter was an invitation to talk with Daya Ma in L.A., one-to-one, and a very kind note. This IMO is not the behavior of a person bent on subjugation, shutting off answers, or mind control. It was the act of a highly committed and, in most ways, quite humble individual, doing the best she can, as she understands things. As Shakespeare would say, "Ambition should be made of sterner stuff." This doesn't deny that there may be huge organizational/structural problems in SRF, and a sense of loss of direction. I feel that also. But the solution is not to demonize the perpetrators. FWIW.
soulcircle Registered User (1/27/03 12:23 am) Reply	let me push your button to psychsweetone psychodev, i see your button/s have been pushed....i see multiple posts, etc.......... again.......phew..........now there is pablum to mouth and swallow without chewing.........please type ten times as much pablum.............i may yet develop an appetite for it..................and at my advanced age i am missing some teeth..............for now though, i just scroll right past [without reading a sentence] your posts laughing at your mental machinations that i don't trouble to read...... and.......... sad a bit that friendship and support has to look elsewhere than your posts to find the community that this board has lovingly and brilliantly brought to my life and others soulsweetone Edited by: soulcircle at: 1/29/03 2:21:00 am
psychdev Registered User (1/27/03 6:07 am) Reply	Re: let me push your button to psychsweetone member108: <<If you or Astral7 are out in Ohio or Germany>> Would you care to elaborate on your feelings about Ohio or Germany soulcircle: <<psychodev>> Please take two aspirin and call me in the morning. (However, you are right that my buttons were pushed). $:\$ Edited by: psychdev at: 1/27/03 6:08:38 am
member108 Registered User (1/27/03 6:40 am) Reply	Re: let me push your button to psychsweetone OK. If you insist. A simple explanation of a cult to me would be an organization that claims its primary mission is religious in nature and pulls resources from members based on that purpose. A cult is an organization that claims that mission while in fact their primary mission is not religious but something else. That something else has to do with survival or some rewards for the leaders (financial or power or ) or possibly something the leaders themselves don’t even realize. SRF is a very confused place and there are probably a dozen different goals. SRF is a cult.
Borg108 Registered User (1/27/03 9:17 am) Reply	Re: the Ohio Germany connection I don't really want to get into the middle of this one, but are you aware, psychodev (I apologize in advance, couldn't resist that) of the strong connection BETWEEN Ohio and Germany? COLUMBUS (July 5, 2001) – Governor Bob Taft today encouraged Ohio firms to join him on the Ohio Business and Investment Mission to Germany. “The Ohio Business and Investment Mission to Germany will allow Ohio to continue cultivating the strong international business relationships it has established in recent years,” Taft said. Germany is the source of significant direct investment in Ohio, with 139 facilities and nearly 37,000 employees. In addition, Germany is Ohio’s sixth largest export destination. In 2000, Ohio companies exported more than $700 million in goods to the German market. Did you know there are 28 hate groups in Ohio, including 10 NEO-NAZI groups? www.tolerance.org/maps/ha...36#listing Don't forget, Ohio is where the Kent State massacre was committed by the Hitler jugend of the time, known otherwise as the Ohio state national guard. ...and that's not all. Germans like to refer to their homelands with names ending in land, such as Deutschland, Rhineland, Sudatenland, "bluhe deutsche Vaterland", etc. And what is the name of the biggest city in Ohio? That's right, Cleveland! I'll save for another post the German connections to Maryland, Oakland and Disneyland... Edited by: Borg108 at: 1/27/03 12:46:18 pm
chrisparis Registered User (1/27/03 11:48 am) Reply	Re: the Ohio Germany connection Dear Member108, Although I agree with many of your points, your definition of "cult is too vague. You neglect to mention the key aspect of a cult's behavior, which is to subvert the member's ability to think independently and thus render them dependent on the organization and its leadership. Not all cults are after money. Many are after power. Contrary to other posts on this board, the term "Cult" has a very specific meaning, and many of the cult behaviors andd hallmarks have been outlined in Lifton's "Psychology of Totalism". Vis-a-vis not calling SRF a cult, all I can say is "if the shoe fits, wear it" and "the proof of the pudding is in the eating".
Borg108 Registered User (1/27/03 11:56 am) Reply	Re: the Ohio Germany connection To me, a cult is characterized mostly by groupthink. I suppose there can be good as well as bad cults if you believe that the ends justify the means (a common attitude within all levels of SRF, IMHO). But the path and the goal are one and the same. It seems inconceivable to me that you could reach a good place by doing not so good things. Edited by: Borg108 at: 1/27/03 2:01:40 pm
username Registered User (1/27/03 4:38 pm) Reply	TO SRF WALRUS Could you please add a section on this board for cults and recovery from cults. Thank you.
psychdev Registered User (1/27/03 9:57 pm) Reply	Re: TO SRF WALRUS BORG: That's quite a stretch to begin talking about "cults", then suggest that I might live in Ohio or Germany, and then move on to SRF and the Nazi party. BTW, we've had the "Nazi" discussion before and I hope we don't have to repeat it again here.
psychdev Registered User (1/27/03 10:26 pm) Reply	Re: TO SRF WALRUS Interesting definitions (and not unreasonable IMHO). <<A cult is an organization that claims that mission while in fact their primary mission is not religious but something else. That something else has to do with survival or some rewards for the leaders (financial or power or ) or possibly something the leaders themselves don’t even realize. SRF is a very confused place and there are probably a dozen different goals.>> <<groupthink....>> I must honestly say, I don't experience as SRF as monolithic--in fact they really are quite disorganized, with many competing goals. It's run by many different individuals with real personalities--not by demigods. Most of these people have a genuine desire for liberation, I believe, even if they have their various blind spots and unknowledged needs. I certainly do agree that SRF need to be more accountable, that it may have become a bit sclerotic, and it needs (above all) to be transparent to it's members. And specific problems need to be addressed, quickly and effectively. But that's a loooonnnngg way from being a "cult" IMHO. BORG: defining a cult in terms of "groupthink" is very tricky--on the one hand, ANY powerful technique for personal change (psychotherapy, meditation, or whatever) involves a kind of surrender of the self and loss of previous identity. The problem comes when a leader tries to exploit vulnerable individuals by using this technique (whether psychotherapy, meditation, or political indoctrination). If you believe that surrender of the self is intrinsically unacceptable (e.g., surrender to a guru or one's representation of God), then clearly Hinduism (and most traditional, organized religion) is not for you. But then the problem is "organized religion" and not SRF as such. I certainly do agree that the phenomenon of peer-pressure, group-think, conformity are big issues, and that when you bring these forces to play, you are playing with fire. You had better have safeguards to prevent damage. My own definition of cult, to add to the confusion: 1) It's run by a single charismatic leader with extreme narcissistic needs (need for praise, adultation); 2) the leader derives his/her power by having followers with dependency and masochistic traits; 3) the members are geographically or socially ("you'll be damned if you talk with non-members"), to maintain group-think and limit dissent. There are probably other essential traits; but I wouldn't call an organization a "cult" without at least these three characteristics. On this account, SRF simply doesn't qualify IMO--I don't believe the hierarchy is malignanty narcissistic and exploitative (although there may be some individuals who are). And I think members are not isolated (although there is, admittedly, some attempt to keep people's opinion's "pure"). I think the idea of a "cult" thread is excellent--it would be great to get actual descriptions of cult-dyamics from any of the many books which study cults in the U.S. That might help advance the discussion! FWIW. Edited by: psychdev at: 1/27/03 10:29:19 pm

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