The real state of Daya Mata - poll

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crogman1 Registered User (9/14/02 1:07 pm)	The real state of Daya Mata - poll I am curious if the Walrus contributors feel that Daya Mata knows what she has become or if she really does feel she is the sole representative of Yogananda on earth; a god-realized master herself; a wonderful soul serving god and guru? Does she believe the hype? Did she intentionally create the role? I myself hope she believes it. To believe that she is just overcome with delusion is somehow easier to take than thinking she is truly a power hungry evil mean old person who knows what she has done and even planned it. I believed in her for so many years I can only take so much!
Lobo Registered User (9/14/02 7:23 pm)	Re: The real state of Daya Mata - poll Crogman, I too believe that she sincerely believes herself to be enlightened, that she is always pure and in tune with Yoganandaji, that her actions therefore are beyond reproach, that she is the only one on this earth who has the aforementioned link with Yoganandaji, and that she was divinely chosen to lead SRF. Yes it is scary to realize that this is what she indeed believes. Even when she is using duplicity to get out of court ordered depostions which will most probably reflect terribly upon her actions and which will then be made a part of the court record in the SRF v. Ananda lawsuit, she even then believes that to be wisdom, protecting the work from all evil-doers, using worldly means, yes, but that's the wisdom part of it, knowing when to get down in the mud and doing a little lying to further the holy work. Living in the upper scale environs as she's done since the late '60's, having the house bought next door for her minions, not for the use of any other devotee's, just the priviledged few who so selflessly buy into the whole concept of her infallibity and never question, I believe she's even thought this is her due as the enlightened one who's done so much service for God and Guru this lifetime; she's earned it. That's another sense of her belief that she's different, just a little more in tune than anyone else on this earth, and anyway Master had his "retreat" in the desert! But as I've had the opportunity to both hear her speak and even appear in front of her for a moment when my turn in line came I can say that I definely felt a special awareness of her consciousness; its powerful nature and the ability to make me feel that I was in the presence of someone with heightened spirituality and realization. Therein lies the conundrum!
wholetruth Registered User (9/15/02 4:35 pm)	Re: The real state of Daya Mata - poll Boy, have I also struggled with the question and mystery of the real nature of Daya Mata! For 30+ years I bought into the image painstakingly crafted by SRF--"Mother of Devotion," Supreme Devotee, etc. At one point in my life (more than twenty years ago) after serving in a paid position with SRF for three years, my health had broken down (not due to any fault of SRF) and I had felt I was in a downward spiral headed towards death itself. I called Mt. Washington repeatedly, begging and crying for an interview with Daya Mata, but her "handlers" deemed I wasn't worthy or important enough, and they told me that she couldn't see me but she was aware of my condition and was praying for me. (Durga Ma was alive at the time, and she's the one I should have gone to see, but I was so clueless then!) I never held it against her, feeling her handlers were to blame. So as to the question of Daya Mata.... Although I'm not a big fan of Kriyananda, he really seems to hit the nail squarely on the head with the following analysis. It's on an Ananda-sponsored website, and although I'm not an advocate for Ananda either, I really encourage everyone to read this. www.yoganandarediscovered...amata.html Edited by: wholetruth at: 9/15/02 4:47:37 pm
username Registered User (9/16/02 8:33 am)	Re: The real state of Daya Mata - poll Before I left SRF, while I was still confused with what the organization was doing, I called and tried to make an appointment with Daya Mata to explain to her my experience with SRF. I guess I didn't think she knew, or maybe I just needed to express my experience. They took my number and said they would get back to me. I called several months later. I received the same reply. This time, however, I understood that they were not ever going to call - that this was just what they were saying to brush me off. So, if anyone in SRF has taken any offense to any of my postings on SRF Walrus - be assured that it is only me trying "to explain...my experience with SRF". If I had seen Daya Mata or even been given a meeting with someone else, I may not have needed this forum. So, rest assured, that SRF is really responsible for SRF Walrus. I also believe that SRF is really responsible for all the others that are teaching kriya -- SRF should have been honest and told its members that kriya had been changed. Instead, members after practicing for years find this out in various ways, then they feel deceived . They go to the other teachers in a quest for the "real kriya". They know they were duped and need to find the "real kriya" so they can feel that they haven't wasted so much of their lives.
lutamata Registered User (9/16/02 9:31 pm)	Re: The real state of Daya Mata - poll what is the difference between the srf kriya and the "real" kriya? i have stopped doing my kriyas because i feel i don't get anything from it. maybe i am doing it wrong... i apologize if some other thread already contains the info i am requesting...
chrisparis Registered User (9/17/02 6:45 am)	Re: The real state of Daya Mata - poll It probably has been, under Teachings and Ideals. From what I have been able to find out, there have been modifications in kriya practice as taught by PY to adapt it for westerners. For example, in most other kriya practices, the use of lotus position or half-lotus is used, where-as SRF teaches the use of a straight backed, armless chair. Another major difference is the lack of instruction in kechari mudra. This is a difficult technique, probably impossible, actually, for those born with short tongues and/or a tight shackle that holds the tongue to the floor of the mouth. In many of the other schools of kriya, kechari is taught at the time of the first kriya initiation, and must be mastered before the second kriya initiation is given. My understanding is that PY taught kechari mudra in person, and urged people to use it. It receives a passing mention in the instructions of second kriya. It is extremely important, if one decides to try to achieve this, NOT to try to do so by cutting the shackle with a knife, as is suggested by Hatha Yoga Pradapika. This is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS. It appears it can be developed through the practice of "milking" the tongue. Although Lahiri urged against this, it was the method taught by PY. Instructional material can be had from Ananda. In addition to posture and Kechari, there is also the practice of Omkar kriya, which involves the center behind the naval. However, not all of these techniques are practiced universally under the instruction of every teacher of kriya. I also have been led to understand that Lahiri Mahasaya taught kriya in different ways according to the needs of different disciples. If any of the techniques that are not usually a part of the SRF method could be said to be sine qua non, it would probably be kechari mudra, and I have heard that debated as well. All in all, it seems to me that, whatever other criticism can be leveled at Paramahansa Yogananda, he really was a first rate teacher of yoga, and the techniques which we get in the kriya initiations are accurate. And, whatever criticisms could be directed at the SRF, it HAS preserved those lessons quite intact, and transmitted them in a way useful to western students (i.e. those who might find it physically impossible ever to learn to sit in lotus posture for even a short period of time). I would welcome any comments from any other posters regarding what I have just put here.
gardendiva Registered User (9/17/02 7:42 am)	kriya question Lutamata... I stopped doing kriya some time ago, as I felt no change in myself. In fact, I frequently noticed a light-headedness and ringing in my ears after getting up following practice. Now, perhaps I was doing it the "wrong" way, but whenever I had a minister check how I did the technique, I was told it was correct. There are many approaches an individual can take towards finding "liberation" or whatever the particular spiritual goal one might be seeking. I have found that, for me, unnatural techniques do not work. What I mean by unnatural, are those techniques that require such gymnastics (so to speak) that they are next to impossible for the average person to accomplish. And then I think, if we are made in the image of God, and are perfect just as we are, why would such gymnastics be required of us to truly "know God?" Doesn't performing such techniques just create another goal or desire (in doing them "just right" or gaining "experiences" from them)? Perhaps for some people, such things are what is needed to bring them into the moment...a focus for being here and now. I think there are other practices, however, which can accomplish the same goal (of being in the moment) that are easier, particularly for beginners. Bottom line, if your daily life experiences aren't improved, if you don't learn compassion, if you continually need to have things your way, if you hang on to goals and hopes and are unsatisfied and unhappy if said goals and hopes aren't accomplished, if you aren't able to "allow" the world to be as it is, for your life to be as it is, if judgment rules your world (either judgment of others, who's path is better or worse, what actions are right and wrong, or judgments about one's self and one's "progress"), then I would question if you've chosen the path that is most beneficial to YOU.
lutamata Registered User (9/17/02 8:26 am)	Re: kriya question gardendiva... my sentiments exactly. thank you for articulating them. right now, all i am focusing on is developing an attitude of equanimity and nonattachment and to think, speak and act with compassion and loving kindness at all times. and if there are instances when i am not able to do that (which are many!), then to be kind to myself and move on. maybe next time... and as for daya mata... i could never understand why people were idolizing her (esp. when she would make an appearance during convocation)... and yet, i would get swept up in the anticipation (you cannot help but be affected by the energy of 3,000 people). so i stopped attending the lectures and just drop by to do kirtan and meditate (i used to work 2 minutes from the bonaventure)... and shop.
gardendiva Registered User (9/17/02 8:33 am)	Re: kriya question Lutamata... Send me an e-mail....pastiche@concentric.net....
username Registered User (9/17/02 11:41 am)	Re: kriya question SRF first and second kriya are very different than "traditional kriya": 1) breath is through nose not mouth 2) there is some attention on the chakras in the "traditional" method when you go up and down the spine. I have not come across any "traditional kriya" where you rub you eyes as in SRF second kriya. 3) Use of a mantra. 4) Navi kriya Edited by: username at: 9/17/02 12:45:10 pm
srflongago Registered User (9/17/02 3:15 pm)	Re: The real state of Daya Mata - poll Yogananda was quite clear in his early ads that he had put together a unique system. He did not refer to it as Kriya, although he was a Swami of the Lahiri school. He went his own way, as a master teacher should. To accuse him of deviating from the norm of the previous Kriya masters is true, and has absolutely no significance. That is what he intended to do. He did not regard any physical technique as either necessary or sufficient to lead one on the road to enlightenment. One can do all the difficult exercises in the world without attaining any spirituality whatsoever. He put together a series of classical techniques with which a serious american student could prepare. Although it is nice to be able to do Lotus or Kechari, these are mere techniques. How could one possibly think that putting one's tongue up the nasal passage or arranging one's legs in a certain way were necessary milestones in the quest for love, bliss, and unity of individual with universal consciousness? Only the devotee of ritual and illusions could come to this conclusion of the mind, not the heart. Some people think they are superior if they are physically able and can do difficult exercises. These people have come to dominate discussions on Kriya. Where is their quest for sprituality? The means have been confused with the ends.
gardendiva Registered User (9/17/02 4:55 pm)	words of wisdom srflongago... Your words of wisdom...much appreciated, as always!
lutamata Registered User (9/17/02 8:00 pm)	Re: The real state of Daya Mata - poll thank you very much srflongago! sometimes people get into so much spiritual materialism and all this holier than thou 'tudes that it brings me back to my catechism classes of long ago - like not being able to do the postures is so much like having so many dark spots in your heart (venial sins and mortal sins) and you need someone to erase those dark spots...
crogman1 Registered User (9/18/02 6:18 am)	Real spiritual progress srflongago, Very true! Physical acts, even meditation and concentration, are easy compared to just learning how to behave and treat others. Gandhi is a good example of this. He knew how to behave and millions were inspired. He didn�t claim to be God-realized or the single authorized representative of a great master. He just knew how to behave toward others and lived with integrity. It is certainly rare. We are in a fairly dark age still. To think we are all equipped spiritually to find the final liberation is probably due to our egos. At our low state of development let us just try to be nice to more people! If only SRF would start with the basic goal of learning to behave. I used to hear them preach about it then see that most of them were not even trying. The warped environment inside the ashram pushes that way down on the priority list while training you in excuses for why that is OK.
wholetruth Registered User (9/18/02 9:08 am)	Daya Mata I asked this question on another thread, but I will repeat it here. Does anyone have any idea how old age is treating Daya Mata? Does she still seem to be in touch and in charge? Is she calling the shots on the BOD, or has someone else seized the reins of power, leaving her as just a figurehead?
srflongago Registered User (9/18/02 12:06 pm)	Re: Daya Mata Lawyer Flynn seems to be the sole external representative of SRF. Given his unpleasant announcements in SRF's name, perhaps he now is the effective chief executive, despite the Board's responsibility. The Board must authorize him to spend the disciple's money at several hundred dollars an hour for each lawyer day after day and year after year without to the observer apparent benefit or end. Are there influential Board members who think this is of material or spritual value? Who are they? Will they ever defend their position? Why be so secretive? Why only let a lawyer speak to the world at large?
wholetruth Registered User (9/18/02 4:34 pm)	Re: Daya Mata If this lawyer is actually calling the shots, it would definitely indicate how dysfunctional and desparate the BOD has become and explain the lack of a spiritual focus. What more reason would anyone need to seek spirituality elsewhere? Edited by: wholetruth at: 9/18/02 5:49:41 pm
username Registered User (9/18/02 4:35 pm)	Re: Daya Mata how did srf find this attorney? is he a family relation of someone? (who might be getting kickbacks for the $ spent on him)
srflongago Registered User (9/18/02 6:19 pm)	Re: Daya Mata This attorney is said to have taken instruction at SRF 20 years ago because of a prior interest in the writings of Yogananda. This and his performance as a lawyer for them, not a family connection, explains how he rose to influence. Since Daya became invisible, he appears to have gained complete freedom to act as the only public face of SRF. As attorney for SRF, his public messages on their behalf have to have met the approval of the Board. That is, they should be interpreted as an accurate representation of the Board's sprituality. But no one I know has seen the slightest trace of spritual backgound in his letters to the public, only negativity. What does this say about the board? They have no other public voice. This is very strange.
username Registered User (9/18/02 7:30 pm)	Re: Daya Mata So, am I to assume this attorney is a householder? With wife and children? Still doing his kriya etc?
member108 Registered User (9/18/02 8:28 pm)	Re: Daya Mata Good heavens where do you all get your information? Flynn is not a powerhouse in the halls of SRF. He is a hired gun. He came to the attention of SRF when he became famous for his lawsuits against the Scientology group. SRF feels someone who can attack that group can attack Ananda for them. After many years they grew to trust him and so there he is. He is not a mover and shaker within SRF. As far as I know he is also not a serious practicing devotee, but then many of the monastics aren�t either. About Daya Mata, she is having frailty problems, being in her late 80s. I believe she shakes a little and has trouble walking. For 10 years they have used a golf cart to get her into the Convocation through the back halls. They put guards in the back halls of the hotel and doors of the meeting room to keep people from seeing her real condition. (Notice she sits for her short talk) She is no longer able to put on the God realized front so well and therefore has retreated even more. Her temper shows up more often and she is quicker to drop her blissful pretense. She is still in control. The Board is a figure head, nothing more. It has never been a Board in the western sense and is not consulted. The Board members all report to her. Some Board members have kingdoms of their own but not too many. The Board is just show for the membership. As in a royal court, all power really sits with those around the president who control access to her and manipulate the information she receives. Mr. Flynn is not part of the power structure. He is only part of the endless lawsuits SRF seems to be involved in.

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