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SRF Walrus > Life on the Inside > Inside the ashram - a normal mix of problems?
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Crog Unregistered User (2/1/02 7:40 am) Reply	Inside the ashram - a normal mix of problems? Several messages here express a certain realization of the problems within the ashram but excuse them with ideas about everyone having problems. They are just people like the rest of us, aren’t they? I have problems too, we should not judge? No, I don’t think they are like the rest of us. Due to the extreme nature of the monastic life, the pressures imposed by the twisted lifestyle and ego/problems of those setting the culture, the people inside the ashram are NOT a mix of people with a normal mix of problems. Those that stay exist in that environment and it shapes them, or they go mad, or they leave after a time. Like organisms that can live in 200 degree heat or extreme pressures under the ocean, they must adapt to survive. They evolve into the people who are creating the problems we now see. Because the lifestyle has filtered out so many, what is left is a very unbalanced mix. The culture supports extremes of power seekers, extremes of hiders and scared rabbits, and extremes of delusional excuse makers. “Normal” people are feared and attacked and soon realize it is bad for their spiritual life to stay and leave. The same filter applies for employees to a lesser degree. For employees or monastics, to come there to serve God and Master only to find the big mess is devastating and must be dealt with. Some of you might feel these problems and pressures inside are TRAINING and being executed by Master to help those involved grow and become highly advanced beings. To that I say ARRRRRGGGGGG.
username Registered User (2/1/02 8:35 am) Reply	Re: Inside the ashram - a normal mix of problems? Helter Shelter, the story of Charles Mason, tells of one of the Mason girls, now in jail for murder, was a nun at SRF.
cjmagorian Unregistered User (2/1/02 2:49 pm) Reply	to username Now that was an interesting piece of information. I tried reading that book years ago and couldn't.
Crog Unregistered User (2/1/02 8:56 pm) Reply	Blacklist I wonder if that nun is on the same black lists I am on?
Lobo Registered User (2/1/02 11:22 pm) Reply	Re: Inside the ashram - a normal mix of problems? Manson girl as nun??? The book I read says that Leslie Van Houten was someone who attended the Hollywood Temple for awhile. Nun? Urban Legend. But let's say she was a nun. Did her experiences in the monastery push her into a mass murderer? If so why aren't we all afraid of all the other fine people who'd had an epiphany and left?? It simply doesn't follow, that's why!
Deep Unregistered User (2/2/02 6:38 am) Reply	Actually Actually you might be surprised at how her treatment within the organization might have contributed to her relationship with others, her willingness to follow Chuck, and her easy manipulation. If the organization has turned people like Priya and Vishwananda into people willing to lie to the public what is not possible? I agree with many of the messages here that the ashram molds and changes people. Often, in fact usually, not for the better.
anonymous Unregistered User (2/2/02 8:00 am) Reply	environment *Quote:* The organization has turned people like Priya and Vishwananda into people willing to lie to the public.... "Environment is stronger than willpower"--PY
SRF Surfer Unregistered User (2/2/02 9:20 am) Reply	Lying? They are not lying in public. They are telling the truth according to a higher law. They are pleasing our beloved Ma.
username Registered User (2/2/02 9:27 am) Reply	Re: environment I don't seem to have the book around anymore. It was written by the DA or someone like that and goes into everyone' s backgrounds. Charles was a "theta clear" scientogist. This girl ( I forget which one) was a nun for a year. Then she left and according to some boy she dated she was "too kinky" for him. And then she meet up with Charles. She had joined and became a nun because, if I remember correctly, the boy she liked, in college, abruptly broke off the relationship and became a monk at SRF. The book gives this guy's name (I wonder if anyone knows him). Anyway, this girl followed her boyfriend into SRF monastery life. And it was all downhill for her after that. I might have copies the pages from this book and filed it somewhere. If I ever run across it I will post an actual quote.
anonymous Unregistered User (2/2/02 11:49 am) Reply	yikes *Quote:* This girl ( I forget which one) was a nun [in SRF]for a year. To state the obvious: What does all that say about the dismal level of intuition--or even basic ability to evaluate other people's character (i.e., basic Human Resources training, which they of course don't have)--of the people in the ashram admissions councils? I knew a man who had his "resident discipleship" (I think that's what it was called--the one where you live in the ashrams as a monk, but without taking any formal vows) interview with Anandamoy, during which the latter said, coyly: "So, you want to be a monk. Not everyone can be a monk, you know." As long as you haven't killed anyone (yet), though, you evidently might still get in. "You're obedient, right? Good at following orders? Don't think for yourself too much? Afraid of your own intellect? 'Cause the people who are most likely to leave the ashrams are the ones who are the most independent. We don't like 'em. They bring the vibration down." Yikes. And as far as "lying for God and Guru" goes, does the following sound familiar? *Quote:* I was taught to lie and to get around the petty rules of the "unenlightened" in order to get favorable reports into the media.... We thought we weren't doing anything wrong because we were told it was often necessary to deceive the unenlightened to advance our guru's plan to save the world. --an ex-Transcendental Meditation member With apologies to The Beatles' Sexy Sadie, that's put me in the mood for a song: Sexy Faye what have you done You made a fool of everyone You made a fool of everyone Sexy Faye ooh what have you done We gave her everything we owned [$, independence, use of our own intellect and conscience, etc.] just to sit at her table Just a smile would lighten everything Sexy Faye she's the latest and the greatest of them all However big you think you are Sexy Faye oooh you'll get yours yet
username Registered User (2/2/02 11:55 am) Reply	Re: environment from Helter Skelter by Vincent Bugliosi with Curt Gentry. Paperback version Leslie Van Houton, aka LuLu, age 20 - murderer Page 564 "Keith handled the direct examination of Jane Van Houten, Leslie's mother. Keith later told me that although Leslie's father didn't want to testify, he was behind Leslie 100 percent. although, like the Krenwinkels, the Van Houtens were divorced, they too had stuck by their daughter. According to Mrs. Van Houten, "Leslie was what you would call a feisty little child, fun to be with. she had a wonderful sense of Humor" Born in the Los Angeles suburb of Altadena, she had an older brother and a younger brother and sister, the latter Korean orphans whom the Van Houtens had adopted. When Leslie was fourteen, her parents separated and divorced. "I think it hurt her very much" Mrs. Van Houten testified. That same year Leslie fell in love with an older youth, Bobby Mackey; became pregnant; had an abortion; took LSD for the first time. After that she dropped acid at least one and often two or three times a week. During her freshman and sophomore years at Monrovia High School, Leslie was one of the homecoming princesses. she tried out again her junior year, but this time she didn't make it. Bitter over the rejection, she ran away with Mackey to Haight-Ashbury. The scene there frightened her, however, and she returned home to finish high school and to complete a year of secretarial training. Mackey, in the meantime, had become a novitiate priest in the Self Realization Fellowship. In an attempt to continue their relationship, Leslie became a novitiate nun, giving up both drugs and sex. She lasted about eight months before breaking with both Mackey and the yoga group. Mrs. Van Houten did not testify to the period which followed; possibly she knew little if anything about it. From inteviews I'd learned that Leslie went full spectrum. The former nun was now anxious to "try anything" be it drugs or answering sex-partner ads in the Los Angeles Free Press. A long-time friend stopped dating her because she had become "too kinky" For a few months Leslie lived in a commune in Northern California. During this period she meet Bobby Beausoleil, who had his own wandering "family". consisting of Gypsy and a girl name Gail." Later she hooks up with the manson family, but you will have to get the book to learn more.
Lobo Registered User (2/2/02 9:19 pm) Reply	Re: environment We are getting a bit off topic here with this banal subject but the book I read, The Family, by Ed Sanders claimed she was someone who attended the Hollywood Temple. I've never read Bugliosi's book, after reading one what's the point, so I will defer to his book as being correct. But again, what does that have to do with SRF? If people here actually believe that because she ended up with the Manson family it had something to do with her 'year' in the nunnery I think we've just about hit the bottom of our objectivity. For this to work, in my opinion, we must be above-board in our critique of the current sad state of affairs within SRF's leadership. Comparing them to mass murderer's is insane and derogatory, and in the long run makes those of us who've chosen to separate from SRF look desperate and unbalanced. Edited by: Lobo at: 2/2/02 9:22:23 pm
KS Registered User (2/3/02 8:11 am) Reply	Unfair I agree it is unfair to expect this to reflect on SRF. It is just a point of interest. This board seems to be about all types of alternative information on SRF and so it is just an interesting point. SRF brags about George Harrison being a friend (he was not a member) but understandably leaves this poor women off. There are actually many saintly souls who have been associated with SRF, many ex-monastics, who SRF might brag about knowing.
Lobo Registered User (2/3/02 8:39 pm) Reply	Re: Unfair (This message was left blank) Edited by: Lobo at: 6/28/02 9:35:54 pm
username Registered User (6/28/02 3:48 pm) Reply	Mason - ex nun Ex SRF nun, Leslie Van Houten, then disciple of Charles Manson is denied parole Parole Denied to a Follower of Manson By JAMES STERNGOLD OS ANGELES, June 28 — Leslie Van Houten tried today for a 14th time to win parole after more than 30 years in prison for her role in the Manson cult's killings of Rosemary and Leno La Bianca in 1969, but the parole board led her through a chilling recollection of the stabbings and again denied her freedom. The parole board announced its rejection of her parole petition shortly after the hearing. It called her expressions of remorse "superficial" and urged her to continue psychological therapy to come to grips with the "enormity of her crime." No one denies that Ms. Van Houten, now a calm, articulate 52-year-old, has been a model prisoner, earning a university degree and helping other inmates. A California judge recently found that the state had improperly denied her parole because, the judge said, she had been rehabilitated. But at the parole hearing today, the board led Ms. Van Houten carefully through a description of the murders. A prosecutor in her trial, Stephen Kay, who is still a prosecutor, then offered further details of the murders and the merciless and methodical means Charles Manson's followers used in killing a couple who had been chosen randomly. At the hearing, two nephews and a niece of the La Biancas covered their faces as gruesome details were recounted. Ms. Van Houten described how she and another member of Mr. Manson's cult led Mrs. La Bianca into a bedroom, then covered her head with a pillow and tried to stab her, for no reason other than that Mr. Manson had ordered it in a plan to incite a race war. When Mrs. La Bianca heard her husband being stabbed to death in the living room, she fought and was subdued, but the blade of the kitchen knife used to stab her bent and Ms. Van Houten and the other attacker called for another Manson follower, Charles Watson, to help. Mr. Watson used a bayonet to stab Mrs. La Bianca, and then, Ms. Van Houten said, she stabbed Mrs. La Bianca in the abdomen 14 to 16 times. Ms. Van Houten said she believed Mrs. La Bianca was dead from the previous wounds when she stabbed her but admitted she was not sure. "I feel I contributed to her death," Ms. Van Houten said. Mr. Kay insisted that whether Mrs. La Bianca was already dead should not matter. "I don't think she gets any credit for that," he told the parole board. Ms. Van Houten admitted wiping away fingerprints in the house and burning the clothing they had worn, and she even recalled what she and the other intruders stole from the refrigerator for snacks. "On the way out we stopped at the refrigerator and took cheese and chocolate milk," she said. Ms. Van Houten expressed remorse for the crime, saying, "Each day I wake up, I know why I'm waking up where I am." She and her lawyer said that Ms. Van Houten was under a spell when she acted and accepted Mr. Manson's racist teachings without question and that she suffered from a mental illness, which was exacerbated by LSD. "I believed that he was Jesus Christ," Ms. Van Houten said of Mr. Manson. "I bought into it lock, stock and barrel." But Mr. Kay insisted she was aware of what she was doing. "This was not a rash and unthinking act on the part of Leslie Van Houten," he said. "She knew exactly what she was doing. The murders of the La Biancas took place one day after Mr. Manson's followers killed the actress Sharon Tate, who was pregnant, and four friends. Ms. Van Houten did not participate in that crime. Even if parole for Ms. Van Houten had been approved, the chance that she would actually have been released would have been slight. Her parole would have to be approved by Gov. Gray Davis, who has accepted only 2 of the 148 cases the board has approved. Both involved women who claimed that the men they killed were abusive and that they suffered from battered woman syndrome, but had not been permitted to use that defense at their trials. The law allowing the defense in California was passed in 1992. Ms. Van Houten recently won a state court ruling that she had been improperly denied parole. The state is appealing the ruling, but Mr. Kay said in an interview that he would be prepared for another hearing. "This murder was off the charts," he said. "If the court gives her another hearing, I'll be back." ANOTHER ARTICLE Manson Follower Denied Parole Again By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS Filed at 2:23 a.m. ET FRONTERA, Calif. (AP) -- Former Manson disciple Leslie Van Houten was denied release for the 14th time after a parole board concluded she has not shown sufficient remorse for her role in the cult killings that shocked the nation in 1969. The Board of Prison Terms commended Van Houten's behavior in prison -- from working as a chapel clerk to making audio tapes to help other inmates -- but Commissioner Sharon Lawin said those positive aspects ``do not yet outweigh the factors of unsuitability.'' ``The panel feels that she has not fully explored and accepted these issues as evidenced by her minimalization and superficial expressions of remorse at today's hearing,'' Lawin said. The ruling Friday came after a prosecutor and the family of the victims urged the board never to grant parole to the now 52-year-old woman who was described as a model prisoner. Charles Manson, his chief lieutenant Charles ``Tex'' Watson and three women -- Van Houten, Susan Atkins and Patricia Krenwinkle -- were convicted and sentenced to death for their roles in the 1969 slayings of actress Sharon Tate, Leno and Rosemary La Bianca, and four others. The sentences were later commuted to life when the U.S. Supreme Court struck down the death penalty in the 1970s. All five Manson ``family'' members are still behind bars. Asked at Friday's hearing if she had stabbed Mrs. La Bianca, Van Houten replied: ``Yes I did, in the lower torso approximately 14 to 16 times.'' Friday's hearing had appeared to represent Van Houten's best chance to get out, coming a month after a judge ruled the parole board has failed repeatedly to give her guidance on what she can do to make herself suitable for release. Such action, Superior Court Judge Bob N. Krug said, ignores Van Houten's accomplishments in prison and turns her sentence into life without parole, in violation of the law. He noted that Van Houten has successfully completed every rehabilitation program offered in prison and that her psychiatric evaluations indicate she is not a danger to society and should be found suitable for parole. At Friday's hearing, Leno La Bianca's nephew demanded Van Houten never been released. ``Miss Van Houten should already be dead for her part in these unprovoked murders,'' said Louis Smaldino. ``Society has been very merciful.'' Turning to Van Houten, who sat handcuffed and shackled at the waist, he said: ``There is no way to make it right. Serve your life sentence with acceptance of what you have done.'' Van Houten, clad in a gray sweat shirt and sweat pants, said she will always bear sorrow for her victims. ``One of the hardest things in dealing with having contributed to murder is that there's no restitution, there's no making it right,'' she said. Her attorney, Christie Webb, said Van Houten was disappointed, frustrated and saddened by the ruling. ``It's very difficult to be a 52-year-old woman, a decent person and to be treated in that room like the 19-year-old cult victim she was,'' Webb said. ``It's very difficult to hear someone say you should be dead.'' ANOTHER ARTICLE Manson Disciple Van Houten to Stay in Jail By REUTERS Filed at 7:37 p.m. ET CORONA, Calif. (Reuters) - Leslie Van Houten, serving a life sentence for her part in the horrific 1969 Manson cult murders, was again denied parole on Friday after spending 30 years in prison for one of the most shocking killing sprees in U.S. history. A California state parole board said Van Houten, 52, should not be paroled because of the ``calculated pre-planned manner'' of her crime, her history of drug abuse when a teenager, and a tendency to form ``destructive relationships.'' Van Houten had previously been denied parole on at least 12 occasions despite her record as a model prisoner. A California judge had earlier ordered the parole board to consider that record in making its decision on Friday -- but it still decided against freedom for the one-time Manson follower. Van Houten sat stunned as the board called her expressions of remorse ``superficial'' and told her she needed continued therapy to understand the ``enormity of her crime.'' She was convicted of the stabbing murders of Rosemary and Leno LaBianca in their Los Angeles home when she was 19 and the youngest member of the cult group controlled by Charles Manson. The LaBianca murders took place a day after other Manson followers killed pregnant actress Sharon Tate and four friends, leaving messages scrawled on the walls in the victims' blood. Manson said he was trying to start a race war. Friday's hearing took place after a San Bernardino County Superior Court judge told the parole board it must consider Van Houten's record in jail, raising her hopes that freedom might be at hand. Van Houten has earned a bachelor's degree, tutored inmates, attended self-help groups and led anti-drug programs during her 30 years in jail. Holding back tears as she spoke to reporters after the decision, Van Houten's lawyer Christie Webb said her client was ''very, very upset, disappointed and frustrated.'' ``It would be difficult to be 52 years, a good and decent woman, who is treated in that hearing room like the 19-year-old cult victim,'' Webb said. VAN HOUTEN ``DEEPLY ASHAMED'' In a detailed three-hour hearing before the parole board at the California Institution for Women, Van Houten said she was ''deeply ashamed'' of her attachment to the Manson clan, saying she had believed Manson was Jesus Christ. ``My heart aches for words'' to express regret, the former homecoming princess said. But Deputy District Attorney Stephen Kay said ``the grievousness of the crime outweighs the good she has done in prison.'' Kay recalled how Van Houten had adhered to Manson's vision, apparently inspired by The Beatles song ``Helter Skelter'', of triggering a race war between whites and blacks. ``Can you ever really have confidence that someone who believed in that motive enough that she would go out and participate in the murder of two innocent strangers in the supposed sanctity of their own home would ever not present an unreasonable risk of harm to society?'' Kay asked the parole board. Louis Smaldino, a nephew of the murdered couple, recalled that Van Houten had already been spared the death penalty when her sentence was commuted in 1978 to life in prison. ``Society has already been most merciful in allowing her to live,'' Smaldino said, holding back tears. ``Her callous disregard for human life should forever seal her fate as a lifetime prisoner.'' Van Houten's lawyer Webb portrayed her as a teenage hippie, seeking an alternative lifestyle in the Sixties, who had been brainwashed by Manson. Manson himself, now 67, was denied parole for a 10th time in April, refusing to even attend the hearing because he did not want to be shackled. His record has hardly been model. It includes 17 serious infractions in the last five years, including threats to kill and multiple incidents in which he hit, spat or threw coffee on guards and other prison employees Edited by: username at: 6/29/02 5:29:16 am
chrisparis Registered User (7/1/02 7:18 am) Reply	Re: Manson - ex nun It completely escapes me what Leslie Van Houten's former membership in SRF has to do with anything. Sure, it's a historical curiosity, just like the fact that Sirhan Sirhan was a member of the Rosicrucian Order AMORC (for a couple of months). The acts committed by these two have NOTHING to do with the organizations they belonged to. Weak psyches often join such groups to try and shore up their disintegrating personalities. Or, to put it another way, people with mental problems often join organizations that teach some form of mental and spiritual discipline. It is an attempt at self-medication. It is exactly why so many f'd up people end up becoming psychologists or psychiatrists. And may I ask what good is served by putting newspaper stories that repeat at length the descriptions of the Tate-LoBianco murders on these pages? Does this IN ANY WAY reflect on the teachings of Yogananda or on the SRF? Are you in some way implying that Mt. Washington has some equivalancy with the Spahn Ranch, or Daya Mata with Charlie Manson? If so, why not come out and say it? If not, why put this stuff up at all? Really, this is a new low on this board.

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