What do people think of the SRF President?

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crogman1 Registered User (1/6/03 8:02 am)	What do people think of the SRF President? *Quote:* From Astral7: 1/6/03 Down in this thread pub78.ezboard.com/fsrfwal...D=94.topic Some devotees Pontfied leaders and most devotees now better. The point is, is that nothing the Good Lady Daya Mata says or does support your Guru Claims about her. But I think her attainment is such that if she had chosen to be constantly out in the public like those who want to be Gurus - she could have outdone most of them. This takes us back to Yogananda's first comment about organizations, "no matter what the leader does or does not do she is always critisized." This is part of the test of being a leader, to have the wisdom to know that there are some out there who have nothing better to do than make incompetant suggestions and accusatioins with the pretext they know all the better ways. And to go on and keep doing ones job inspite of all the background noise. It is not the successors fault that some try to view her as a Guru. Remember Krishnamurti, who spoke against gurus and organizations all his life. He never had a guru but was decieved by an org. However since has left, some of his admirerers treat him as a guru and formed an org in his name. DO NOT BLAME THE VICTIM ! No one on this board has yet shown how and where the good lady Daya Mata does what you falsely accuse her of. Daya Mata -the president of Yogananda church, has never considered herself or promoted herself to be anyones Guru! It is probably a safe bet that no one on this board considers Faye their Guru. SRF is very careful about the term Guru. SRF and Faye claim to be his sole valid representative, which is different. They claim the president will always be God-Realized, which is very close but keeps them out of trouble. It allows them to promote the worship of Faye without the red flag of calling her a Guru. This is just being politically correct while at the same time clawing at the power they seek. Astral7 also brings up a good question. What has Faye done that was so wrong? Point out one story!!! The answer is simple. The bad ladies hide from the membership and create many layers between themselves and the members. Name ONE story of something she has actually done that was not told us by the self-serving senior SRF management? Some people are invited to a scripted Christmas program or Satsanga, but can they really question Faye about what is going on? Do they get to see Faye in her day to day operation? No. SRF's new problem is that those in her inner circle have also started to get fed up and leave, so stories about how she acts in private are coming out now. I hope some of those people post those stories here. But even if we don't see Faye's actions directly we can tell what the bad ladies are like by the organization they have created. If some of the stories on this board are true, how do they reflect on Yogananda? Was the culture that created the environment for these stories created without Faye’s awareness? SRF's practice of secrecy does protect them from a lot of criticism. However, enough is known to make a judgement. Edited by: crogman1 at: 1/6/03 8:08:05 am
Lobo Registered User (1/6/03 10:07 pm)	Re: What do people think of the SRF President? Crogman, There are many things that she has done that are "wrong," but as I see it, Astral 7 wants to have it both ways. If we express our opinions about what she's done wrong he thinks we are ego-manaics with no right to put her down, or possibly that we don't even have the right to express such criticism, since we are so far down the ladder of spiritual development than she. Then he says that PY said that the all head's of organizations receive criticism from other's no matter what they do, that it goes with the job, thereby of course implying that all criticism is bogus when it comes to Daya Mata, and the BOD. These types of comments are meant to stop dissent, to stop honest expression of one's opinion, and I recognize that. In fact for many years as a member I too engaged in just the same type of trying to stop others from putting down SRF or Daya Mata. That, of course, is his right, and is a common opinion among those members who haven't or won't see what is actually going on at Mt. Washington and PY's organization. I don't think he's wrong to have that opinion. But I also don't think that it's my job to temper my opinion, especially on this board, as my opinion is something that I've arrived at after being a member for decades. I don't think that SRF says Daya is a guru. As you've said, they are very careful not to cross that line, probably observant of Rajasi's remark that Master was the last of the line. But they do everything to create an atmosphere around her, with her approval since as head of the organization she can stop anything at anytime, that implies quite clearly that she is ONE with the guru, that she is spiritually INFALLIBLE. So to me its clear what's going on, even if they claim and assert that she isn't the guru.
astral7 Registered User (1/7/03 5:02 am)	Re: What do people think of the SRF President? Dear People The S R F Does not have to worry about crossing any lines with the term Guru, as the Good Lady D aya Ma does not hold such a position, practice such a function, nor behave in all ways like a guru. Re changes at ayogananda's org SElf-Realization Fellowship; Some things happen slowly, but there are many reasons why. Seldom is that reason incompetence. Even Yogananda did not make all of his changes at once, he kept making them with each new edition and probably set the example on how changes should be made without changing his meanings/teachings. If you have any clarity of spiritual perception, you should be able to discern whether or not Yogananda”” actually said this or that, whether his policies have been followed. he also made some adjustments to the importance of the organization he founded/created for the great ones. Also consider the source, The present Successor has integrity and is in tune with the Guru as no other I know of. She had the clear ability since a young girl to see the good and make major changes in her life. Few do this in this world! You may not agree with all that is done, but she is not the only one doing things there. some were in this work who were doing it harm, SRF had the courage to dismiss them. Time is the test for all things i feel, Yogananda told Anandamoy the SRF”” would be a great and vast org in a couple of thousand years, with his prophetic abilities it will happen in a good way I hope. An organization grows like an organism, with the solid foundation of his wisdom it will still need to change as it grows, and as time changes, as all living beings do. I think one of the greatest things this Avatar did was to clear away a lot of the worlds garbage and outdated thinking about spirituality, if they use what he left us it should survive the many challenges ahead. Things are not as simplistic as many would have us believe. with respect ...Astra 7 Edited by: astral7 at: 1/7/03 5:09:15 am
crogman1 Registered User (1/7/03 6:12 am)	Looking back at my past Astral7, It is interesting having you here. It is obvious to those of us who have been there that you have not been there and actually seen Faye and SRF in action at the HQ, but your opinions reflect where many of us have been. It is interesting the image it gives of where we have come from, where we have passed through. I hope I have learned something from it. I wonder what need I had to believe in SRF all those years when for many years I did see the problems but ignored them. I have had to admit to myself that I did indeed want to belong to the "best" and "highest" and due to my own cowardice sometimes ignored the abuse of friends at the hands of SRF. No longer. I also had to finally take responsibility for my own spiritual progress. I am trying to develop a direct connection with my Guru and don't need the help of Faye the pretender.
wholetruth Registered User (1/7/03 7:06 am)	Re: Looking back at my past I, too, believed exactly all that "astral7" has stated here for 30 years, but then decided it was time to explore the truth beyond the propaganda. Thank you, astral7, for stating SRF dogma so well. It reminds us all of what we have left behind in order to broaden our spiritual horizon and take charge of our spiritual growth.
GregsBrother Registered User (1/7/03 10:43 am)	Re: Looking back at my past I think Astral7 may actually be an "bot" set up by SRF! That is, an automatic computer program set up to paste the same response onto the end of each thread. I guess "Anandamoy said Yogananda said SRF will be great for thousands of years" And "Things aren't as simple as they seem" is what astral 7 considers to be the answer to every one of these "issues" surrounding SRF.
Lobo Registered User (1/7/03 7:08 pm)	Re: Looking back at my past What's also interesting is the fact that SRF, here through Astral 7, trot out quotes that PY apparently/supposedly made to some of the remaing "directs" when it serves their purpose. That purpose of course is to validate their actions, and convince us the members, they have the inside knowledge which we lower spiritual beings don't have, and that we are therefore all deluded when we dare to criticize those actions. But, when another direct disciple, Kriyananda speaks and writes of the things that PY told him, SRF publicly states that he's wrong, that PY never said those things, and futhermore, he's a demon-cretin who is just out to puff himself up at SRF's expense. SRF could win back immeasurable credibility if they were to just once openly and truthfully state that they have in deed made mistakes, that they are after all just human beings, and that they continue to try to align themselves with what they believe to be PY's vision of the furtherance of SRF, but that if they make unintended mistakes in the future, they will quickly change course in the Spirit of Truth. Maybe some time in the future when all the "directs" have gone on to Hiranyaloka SRF will then become less secretive and more accountable. We can hope.
GregsBrother Registered User (1/7/03 10:33 pm)	ogNAN YES. And YES. I hope the scathing intuiton that is applied to SRF will also be applied to Kriyananda/Ananda. Lets face it. There is no flawless, perectly divinely guided earthly organization. It sucks, but we are but lambs in the freakin' wilderness. No person, no teaching is clearly perfect.
soulcircle Registered User (1/8/03 4:10 am)	for the five posts above Thank you much!!
psychdev Registered User (1/9/03 7:54 pm)	Re: for the five posts above crogman to Astral 7: <<It is obvious to those of us who have been there that you have not been there and actually seen Faye and SRF in action at the HQ>> Crogman, is it conceivable that Astral 7 simply has a different point of view, rather than having never seen Faye, SRF, and HQ? I think your post is rather arrogant, and assumes that your particular point of view is the measure of truth in the universe. Perhaps Astral 7 has MORE experience than you in observing these people--every think about that?
crogman1 Registered User (1/10/03 6:27 am)	Re: for the five posts above Psychdev, Your point is logical. I suppose in most cases it would be a possibility that A7 knows more than I do. In this case I don’t think so. I spent over 12 years trying my best to hold onto my illusions about SRF and the senior management there, ignoring a lot of stuff. I used to give the same opinions as A7 so I know where she is coming from. I tried over and over to explain away the stuff everyone there saw. I sincerely wish it were not the way it is. Unfortunately the bad ladies are not God-realized saints representing Master on earth and directing “his work” in his best interest. Not even close. Not even close. Accept no substitutes. Build a relationship with Yogananda directly.
astral7 Registered User (1/10/03 4:42 pm)	Re: for the five posts above Ya Psychdev - you are right on. Yes, I have met and interviewed the Good Lady Sri Daya Mata, and been around SRF some.and been around most of them.... Also, crogman- I'll respond to yours and other comments here too. Please bear with me - as on some items I feel I have some idea where you are coming from as well. And I am not saying your ideas are all wrong. There are sometimes aspects of the picture others know also! I have not been to the same places nor done things the same way at all. It is nice to imagine you know where I am coming from, but from what I read herein that it may not be fully true. What I see wrong or right about the functions of masters great Fellowship are very different reasonings than you may be using - as well as the fact that we have not seen all the same things. Or will even come to the same conclusions. You see, I went through that same soul searching[and other investigations] before I ever took Kriya Yoga and became a member of Self-realization Fellowship. I knew even then what organizational problems were about from other experiences in other places. I have always known from SRF, and the Lessons and guruji that I am responsible for my own spiritual life - I knew this before I even heard of Yogananda and was never even looking for a Guru, let alone any of those lesser teachers of who are attempting to be his "channel gurus". Nor is there any confusion on my part as to the role of the SRF community in the lives of Paramahansa Yogananda's devotees. I am trying to keep things in perspective! There are surely many ways to do the same things, but why would I crawl everywhere, when I can walk or ride. This is what master tells us throughout all of his works and tapes, "You will get the best results with Self-Realization Fellowship and the SRF Lessons course. you will get the greatest attunement with me via those channels." Guys and girls - anyone can give out information, copy information, etc , but the power to help you directly, and help you develop the power by which you will be truly independent & free comes generously via the true Guru/Master. The greatest ones you will ever know of -you may never meet in the flesh till you are beyond the illusion of worshipping every new kid on the block - the would be gurus. Here is one of those moments of truth where one must honestly ask oneself - "JUST WHO IS THE MASTER AND WHO IS THE DISCIPLE HERE?" or do I know more the he who is actually there?? I still consider the master the one who made it - and he still knows more than I. "If you love me -love my dog too!" On these points I support Him and his only child - the "Self-Realization Fellowship" Without this basis of love - the information may just not seem to work - it is only half of the formula! I would be the last one to say any org is perfect - lets go ever further on this one. Master could have said "the world of men and maya is so imperfect "why would I ever want to get back into that scene of so many half-witted, lazy, ungrateful devotees!" But even to help some good ones it is always worth it. I know there are many other orgs out there trying to do the same thing - but if you want to talk about bad[even evil] leadership, it is out there in the worst forms of leaders who put themselves in the wrong places. Oh yea! EVERYBODY WANTS TO BE A TEACHER!! This teacher thing really goes to some heads like a drug. You can tell when something is wrong when they get preoccupied with knocking others down or making vain claims - such as "you will never get to God through Yogananda - you must approach the divine through me." This is followed by a lot of worse stuff like knocking others down and stealing the materials of others, etc. Someone posted a great comment here recently = "KNOW THEM BY THIER FRUITS'" Some of this bad stuff comes about because when would be gurus haven't achieved anything yet, and they don't have enough greatness within to share, if they get desperate then anything else will do. . Case #1, In last years TIE summer Magazine, there was a 8 page article on "The Search for Babaji", it wasn't good enough that this was a paid infomercial for Govindan of Montreal. They had a special page with a special border around it for the purpose of slandering Yogananda [By Govindan] a few months before more evidence came out about Yogananda not being anyone’s father. So they turned their "spiritual magazine" into a sleaze tabloid. Why? And they claim to be a mag that represents Sri Aurobindo? But so many have not even lived up to the two first steps of Yama/Nyama in their lives, while presuming to lead others to enlightenment.And when you add all their organizational errors to that too. WOW! There are those who only knew the master for a few years and are trying to tell us all they know better than those that knew him for 20 years, or they are telling us that they are the only ones who really knows what master wanted. That is how vain would be gurus can get... if they knew what masters meanings are they would have lived very different lives by now. and they would still be serving his work via SRF. Who are they kidding! You might think that others[and there devotees] would not attack and slander SRF if only SRF had not taken legal action against them. What else is left to do when dealing with the likes of desperate false teachers. Here is where Daya Mata -the Good Lady - and some others of both genders shine at SRF, & are clearly on better ground than many I have met. The leadership at SRF has an outstanding record of moral integrity for starters. And for those who know how to read and listen, and get more help if needed, Yogananda is not telling us to seek salvation only through anyone or any group. But I don't know of any one in history who has made it without a guru-disciple relationship. And he does say that His way is through the SRF This is why after more than a millennium of outside abuse there are still many Hindus and great Yogis in India today. And in to-days world -Paramahansa Yogananda has great things to share with all religions - which cannot be done very efficiently without His organization - Self-Realization Fellowship. Community life through the organization is half of the human equation, individuality is the other side of this coin. The balanced devotee will see the value in both. sharing ideas[or rambling] with respect...astral7 Edited by: astral7 at: 1/11/03 7:22:53 am
astral7 Registered User (1/10/03 4:44 pm)	Re: for the five posts above PS ...Just to let you know although i like to express myself, I have no intention of attacking anyone on this board!
crogman1 Registered User (1/10/03 6:10 pm)	Re: for the five posts above It is interesting that your messages seem to stay on this board! I see that as a very good sign. There does seem to be an open dialog on this board. Try posting some of this stuff on the Yogananda.net board! I sincerely don't want to ruin your impressions of SRF. It is probably best that you not participate here so you can keep this controversy out of your life. It is truely not necessary to know the truth about SRF, which ever view is true. UNLESS you intend to devote part of your life to their service. If you are a happy outsider who sends in a donation once in a while and attends the convocation then good luck to you. If you are thinking about becoming an employee or becoming a monastics, THINK AGAIN. Read this board completely and ask a lot of questions. Many friends have given up good careers and/or moved from across the country to give their lives to serving SRF only to find SRF is not what they thought. A couple did this to serve Encinitas as the retreat managers and got seriously burned. SRF fired them and left them with no means of support. Another couple did this to serve the Lake Shrine as retreat managers and got seriously burned. SRF fired them and left them with no means of support. Many others gave up good jobs to work for SRF in Los Angeles and the stories are all over this board. Being a simple yogi and attending a church or center is fine. Beyond that BEWARE!
psychdev Registered User (1/10/03 9:02 pm)	Re: for the five posts above crogman1: <<It is probably best that you not participate here so you can keep this controversy out of your life.>> Good grief, crogman1. astral7 is, in all likelihood, legally competent, not demented and able to make her own decisions. (S)he can judge for herself whether he/she needs to post here, without your "help". Don't you think your post is just a little condescending? Your desire to exclude opposing decisions reeks of group-think--the very evil which you and others criticize in SRF.
psychdev Registered User (1/10/03 9:11 pm)	Re: for the five posts above crogman: <<SRF fired them and left them with no means of support. >> I think you are blurring the religious and work/employer functions of SRF. The religious role of SRF is not one of providing employment. The fact that SRF is a religious organization does NOT mean they employ anyone who needs a job or that they never lay people off. For these reasons, it's a bit unreasonable to hold SRF for "leaving them with no means of support". SRF was not responsible for these people having no job prior to working at SRF; and they are not responsible for people having no job after leaving SRF. People make their own choices--where to work, what salary to accept, what sacrifices to make. They are independent, mature adults, and have responsibility for their OWN lives. SRF's religious role does not mean they now have to support people economically. That ridiculous.
astral7 Registered User (1/10/03 9:27 pm)	Re: for the five posts above Crogman1 - do I hear insecurity in your position on some of these matters when you are discouraging me from being here? If my perspective on these matters is different, it may be valued by others - who knows? Just let me assure you, it is beginning to sound unlikely that we are/have been in the same place. If that be the case, we do have a lot to talk about, but then should we be meeting like this - people might talk. You sound like a pretty serious seeker, this I respect! Take care and be well in all things. astral7
KS Registered User (1/11/03 7:14 am)	Re: for the five posts above psychdev and A7, Good stuff. That kind of debate on this board is very revealing! Keep it up. I agree with Croggie but I think the debate brings out the differences in the positions for Walrus readers. The true nature of SRF is shocking, especially for people who sincerely believe in Yogananda and think SRF and Yogananda are one in the same. For those who believe the baloney about Faye being enlightened this stuff must be very disturbing to read.
wholetruth Registered User (1/11/03 10:28 am)	Different Points of View I don't think anyone should ever be told not to participate here because we disagree with them or have had a different experience than theirs. Even though I may not be certain anymore that Yogananda was a great master and saint, I have no problem listening to those who do. Although I may believe that SRF has a history of hiding the truth and manufacturing myths, I don't mind hearing from those who find it a great religion or great spiritual organization. I welcome anyone to attempt to change my opinion, but just don't quote SRF propaganda! (I still want to believe in Paramhansa Yogananda.) Edited by: wholetruth at: 1/12/03 6:36:40 pm
chela2020 Registered User (1/11/03 1:24 pm)	Re: for the five posts above Astral 7: You stated, "But I don't know of any one in history who has made it without a guru-disciple relationship. And he does say that His way is through the SRF." That is interesting that he said that, but where is that written? Because the East-West magazines I have seen where he stated that we could all go to the church or temple of our choice. He gave Kriya to people who were in other religions and didn't ask them to join SRF. The Hindu way is not to draw people into one organization, but to help them become better Christians, better Hindus, better Buddhists, etc. And didn't Yogananda say that somewhere? So are you telling us, that if a person goes to another church or temple, or even if that person is in Ananda, or the Golden Lotus, or in Eugene Roy Davis' group, etc. that they are betrayers of Yogananda? These people love God and Yogananda very much. So are you telling me that he doesn't accept them? That their love for him and for God is useless?To think this way is to think like many in the Christian religions, who say, "If you don't go to my church you will go to hell." And I thought that Yogananda was against dogma. Well, I don't really believe that all in SRF believe these things. Some do, but I know of some leaders in SRF who do think otherwise. I know of a Brother (as in Swami) in SRF, who, when I told him that I left SRF and now have another guru, and that I knew that some believed that I betrayed Yogananda by doing so, he was surprised that anyone would think like that. It also doesn't mean that Yogananda isn't still my guru too. Because he has done a lot to help me on my path to God. In India people sometimes have many gurus, and if your guru passes on, you can get another. As people grow in their spiritual development, they may or may not keep the same guru that they started out with. But if you feel that Yogananda has deserted any of us because we walked away from SRF, then you fail to understand the guru/disciple. relationship. It is a tie that can never be broken. Even if you walk away or desert your guru, he will continue to help you on your path to God. I quote: "According to the Hindu belief, the tie between the guru and his initiated disciple cannot be broken, either in this world or on any future plane of existence, until the disciple realizes the Atman within himself and is thus set free. Meanwhile, the disciple may neglect, reject, or even betray the guru, but the guru cannot disown him. In such cases, the guru must continue to guide the disciple mentally, from a distance, and protect him through prayer." And you don't know for sure that these teachers who left SRF are "lesser teachers." They may very well be channeling Yogananda. He was their guru, and he continues to be even though they have left and have begun their own organizations. In India, when a devotee reaches certain heights, he often leaves and begins his own organization. You also don't know what spiritual heights they may have reached. You said, "You will get the best results from Self-realization Fellowship." I am not sure if Yogananda said that, but for many people they did not get the best results, so they are here talking about it. It just wasn't the right path for them, nor for me. (By "right path" I am not referring to the teachings, as much as I am to the organization, since many on this board still consider the teachings their path.) It was helpful to me but that is all. This doesn't mean that we are not still on our path to God, because we all are. It may not seem that way to you, but right now we all just have to go through a healing process, which is part of the path. Edited by: chela2020 at: 1/11/03 1:54:42 pm
Lobo Registered User (1/11/03 10:03 pm)	Re: for the five posts above Two points to add to the lower thread of 1/11. I'm with WholeTruth as to having all sorts of people who have some interest in PY and/or SRF; or for that matter those PY disciples who've gone on and founded other organizations. It adds to the debate, the discussion, which is clarifying. Secondly, on the SRF Lake Shrine dedication audio tape (which I got from Ananda; however since the end of the lawsuit they may not be selling it anymore....dis a pity), PY in his remarks says that he didn't come to start a church. He says this with great enthusiasm, as if putting special emphasis on it. This brings up what I've felt troubling about SRF and the leaders. The entire SRF Lake Shrine dedication video is apparently intact, the speech, the guests, etc. etc. But SRF decides that the lay membership can't see the whole film. They cut and paste, show snip-its, apparently carefully edited to remove scenes that included disciples which they now dislike, and who therefore have fallen out of favor. But beyond this, the audio is also unavailable (except as mentioned above), making it at least possible that SRF doesn't want the members to hear their own guru, maybe for the above reason as well. That in a nutshell is a large problem for me. Edited versions simply are not PY's words, thoughts, inspirations, teachings. They are filtered through those disciples who control them, which means that the disciples have decided to only let the membership have second helpings. This is sad, and I hope that it will end, when SRF can update everything in PY's, and SRF's, and Yogoda's, history for the member's to end the secrecy.

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