Response to Yogananda Criticism

SRF Walrus

Mt. Washington, Ca

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KS Registered User (7/14/02 9:08 am) Reply	Response to Yogananda Criticism What the hell kind of turn around is this? I am being put in a position of defending SRF? Well, no, but do have different ideals on how Yogananda lived. See below in reaction to a post from SayItIsntSo. *Quote:* SayItIsntSo: My "true thoughts" about "what if Yogananda was alive now" has always been this: 1. Madonna, Billy Bob Thornton and Pamela Anderson and like Hollywood types would be keeping counsel with him, as the "stars" did when he was alive. I agree. Master was hyper magnetic and would have drawn in millions with the media out there today. This is partly because he would have gotten some publicity then been investigated but found to be the warm sweet wonderful being that he really was. That is rare. Some would have followed him for the publicity. I don’t think Billy Bob or Pamela would have been among them, but there would have been many! *Quote:* 2. Me, regular girl/guy would be in the LAST row, if I was lucky enough to get tickets. He would be surrounded by body guards. I disagree. There are many stories of common normal real people being involved with him. There would have been, just as there is now, a covey of nuns and monks protecting him against outside people (and protecting their own power) but that would not have been as much a problem as it is today. This is allowed today because the matas promote the hero worship as part of the cult culture. *Quote:* 3. The only way the regular girl/guy could even hope to see him would be to join his ashram, and we all heard stories about how rarely his monks and nuns saw him. He was busy traveling...first class...with a new car. I again disagree. The monastics rarely saw him but the implication that he was some rich person traveling first class and so on it just wrong. Don’t get me wrong, the current monastic community is a bunch of cowardly self centered idiots running a cult. It has little to do with the legacy of Yogananda. I could not think less of the mata’s and their little group, but they will soon be forgotten by history and their damage to Master’s reputation, as indicated in the SayItIsntSo post, will be over.
gardendiva Registered User (7/14/02 6:42 pm) Reply	Re: Response to Yogananda Criticism Unfortunately, we have no real way of knowing what Yogananda was like. We have no way of knowing whether the image that has been presented is real or imagined. Most of us never met him, many of us were not even born before he passed on. There is question whether his writings are really "his." How can we possibly know with any certainly what this man really was all about? All we have are other people's words. If someone is intuitive enough, I guess they can get an idea. But I'm certainly not there. I can't say one way or the other. For me, that has meant moving on to a different path. One where there is no guru and I have to rely on what I find is real and true within. It would be nice if the image was real, but I personally have no way of knowing.
redpurusha Registered User (7/24/02 12:16 pm) Reply	Re: Response to Yogananda Criticism Fortunately, unlike Jesus and the other ancient masters, we do have a lot of information and historical record of P. Yogananda. Having spent a couple of decades in the US in the 20th century, much of his life has been recorded. Despite whatever editing and changes have occured, his autobiography (while he was in the body) and live recordings, along with the thousands of actual people who spent time around him, provide much credible evidence for what kind of person he was. Most importantly, his own lifestory speaks for itself. "A child of God, 'bears witness' to truth, by his life."
astral7 Registered User (1/4/03 10:36 am) Reply	Re: Response to Yogananda Criticism Si Certamente good fellow! There has never in this phase of the worlds history been such a detailed record of a world-class prophet as we now have of Paramahansa Yogananda. Form photos, his writings and the hundreds of journalistic reports we have of him from first hand observers. To give this all increased accuaracy, it all came out in our native tongue - English....NTN Some of us have [and can still] interview living witnesses who knew him personally. So as you can see here there is no need to depend on myth of legend,as with Jesus, Moses & Muhammad etc, Yogananda's witnesses are still living and there are all the very recent evidences by both devotees, and non-devotees. The only persons who are trying to create doubt in all of this are some failed monastics and others who ungratefully left his work in search of their own glory[they tried to create their own dynasties as they didn't fully understand what he was about. - most failed and some succeeded. But even their writings testify to the record of his life and greatness as a Self-Realized saviour of mankind. it doesn't get much clearer that this. Edited by: astral7 at: 1/16/03 1:03:43 pm
GregsBrother Registered User (1/4/03 11:53 am) Reply	Re: Response to Yogananda Criticism I think the big issue for me is not "is Yogananda a legitimate spiritual teacher" but "Does SRF in its current form represent his teachings correctly? Does SRF and its leadership exemplify what I see as the key elements of Yoganandas teachings? Most people here on this board are still into Yogananda, even the monastics who left. Finding SRF lacking is not the same as "tearing down Yogananda". Suggesting that disloyalty to the SRF organizaton is disloyalty to Yogananda, is like saying you are not a good American if you disagree with the President. Its a tactic used by people in power to prevent others from evaluating their actions in a realistic light. Sure, a few posters have "ripped " Yogananda here. But mostly people here are critical of SRF, not Yogananda. To confuse the two would be a shame.
KS Registered User (1/4/03 9:01 pm) Reply	Re: Response to Yogananda Criticism Exactly! The two are NOT the same.
username Registered User (1/4/03 9:33 pm) Reply	Re: Response to Yogananda Criticism not everyone in Los angeles, who know Yogananda thought he was enlightened . If you only listen to his devotees , you will not see the total picture of the man.
chela2020 Registered User (1/5/03 3:51 am) Reply	Re: Response to Yogananda Criticism username, That is the way it always is. Most people didn't recognize Jesus as being enlightened. It is usually the followers who recognize their Master. Some who would meet Yogananda would agree that he is a great man, just as they do Gandhi, but they wouldn't consider him much more than that. Not even I know if Gandhi was enlightened. But I agree, to see the total picture of a man, listening to devotees isn't enough.
srflongago Registered User (1/5/03 8:37 am) Reply	Re: Response to Yogananda Criticism Chela 2020: I am heartened by your even handed response. There are those who, emotionally responding to their own experiences, positive or negative, want to throw a baby out with the bathwater, whether the baby is Yogananda, his early colleagues, SRF,, his independent disciples, Kriya, or Vedanta Yoga as a whole. I find the best path to be to take whatever contributes to personal enlightenment from each and go forward as an independent truth seeker.
GregsBrother Registered User (1/7/03 10:56 pm) Reply	Re: Response to Yogananda Criticism srflongago- The baby is God, the bathwater is everything else. I was attracted to Yogananda because I was repelled by the "God" described by the major religions. But I now see that so many are trying to twist Yogananda into their "version" of God; to support their beliefs. It is sad. I DO NOT WANT to be an "independant truth seeker". I would rather just dive into a tradition of truth that is perfect and pre-packaged. But there is no such way, despite SRF/Ananda/etc, propoganda. I am, and MUST REMAIN and "independant truth seeker". And that is OK!
wholetruth Registered User (1/8/03 7:53 am) Reply	Re: Response to Yogananda Criticism Yeh, it's tough being an "independent truth seeker," I admit, but what other option is there?
chela2020 Registered User (1/8/03 8:35 am) Reply	Re: Response to Yogananda Criticism Gregsbrother, While it is true that SRF did change a few of Yogananda's words, they did not change the body of the lessons. They read the same, with just the recipes deleted, and his poems are changed, some deleted. His lecture books are the same as those he gave, but they did edit out the introductory of each lecture. So you can very well know Yogananda through his own writings. You can also obtain original writings if you desire and compare. Edited by: chela2020 at: 1/16/03 8:16:17 pm
astral7 Registered User (1/9/03 10:09 pm) Reply	Re: Response to Yogananda Criticism Well Fellows I feel your anger and your discontent with some things that are not as you would like them to be. And the frustration of not having access to more data. If you don't like what you see, and have had no luck with your complaints - be patient - new bodies are taking over as time goes by and things may change to suit you. ?? But just think of the many times various persons have had to take Ananda to court for various criminal offences! Now that is real mismanagement and getting away from Yogananda's teachings on the part of Ananda. Djw was clearly and openly treated as the Guru[a position he may not be in for many more lifetimes,] this was also encouraged by the Ananda clergy and others. With his approval. But our good lady Sri Daya Mata has never been considered a Guru by most discerning SRF devotees, and she herself never says or does anything that would give one the impression that she is trying to be one. Are you making this all up as you go along, why aren't you complaining about some these would be Gurus that are really out there, and are only a bunch of wanabees. At any rate please share with me what examples there are our Good lady Sri Daya Mata gives you such an false impression? I admit she has lived a flawless moral life and has never sought power like those others who started cults to compete with masters work. I also admit that to read her talks and hear her speak is like listening to Master. But she does not claim to be anyone’s Guru. This is the reason why she rarely makes any group appearances for even devotees. She, like Rajarsi before her, does not want devotees to worship her. I see her as a great example of this path and she does inspire many persons to serve Masters Church. THE GOOD LADY DAYA MATA HAS NEVER CLAIMED TO BE ANYONES GURU, NOR HAS SHE GIVEN OUT SUCH AN IMPRESSION OF HERSELF. Does it bother some that she speaks with such wisdom, Well what do you expect - Yogananda Himself trained her for over 20 years to lead and direct SRF according to his ideals. It is just another example of her great attunement with His omnipresence. Durga Ma knew this and so loved PY that she stepped aside after being elected so that the Masters will was done. If there is any thing worse that blind obedience - which I have never indulged in, it is the blind rage and confusion that motivates some of the comments one sees on the net against SRF. I know many kriya devotees who are still with their traditional faiths, and others who have joined other groups and are still loyal to the Self-Realization Fellowship - Yogananda's church, and Yoganandaji. You have been talking to the wrong devotees. I know a loyal SRF family that was leaving CA when PY was still in body, they moved the mid-west. But before they left Yogananda told them to feel free to be part of there new community with some good churh.[as at that time there was no SRF temple in that area] One can join or not join SRF and still love Yogananda, however, He specifically says over and over again in his tapes and writings that the devotee will get the best results by working with the SRF Lessons and supporting SRF by attending regular services while meditating regularly. if you know more that He amybe you should be a Guru. remember when in the A/y PY wandered away to get Samadhi and Dharshan from Ram Gopal -Ram gopal sent him back to his Guru.Yogananda tells us that loyalty is eveything!!! So what if Our dear lady Durga Ma initiated Sri Daya Mata into kriya, it would have been done with masters approval and/or the authority given to her to initiate others. Are you implying that something was wrong with Durga Ma's spiritual life? That she was not worthy to initiate others? or a complaint, I have always received a positive and good response. It is easy on the net to pretend we could have done such and such better "after" we see someone’s work is less than perfect at times - talk is cheap! with respect ...Astral 7
astral7 Registered User (1/9/03 10:11 pm) Reply	Re: Response to Yogananda Criticism yes to recognize greatness on others like Master would require some connection at a deeper level.
GregsBrother Registered User (1/9/03 11:08 pm) Reply	Re: Response to Yogananda Criticism astral7 Are you cutting and pasting again? Why are you talking about Ma Durga in this thread? It seems you have once again simply "cut and pasted" your remarks made on another thread, onto this one.
astral7 Registered User (1/16/03 12:56 pm) Reply	Re: Response to Yogananda Criticism Hi Gregsbrother; To assure you that I am not cutting and pasting my stuff from another threat to this one, you will find that this is the first time I have ever mentioned Beloved Durga Mata on any posts here so far. The word "again " does not apply here. But if I should at some time use a quote of my own or others in more than one place - what is the problem? Regards and respect to all - Astral7
TheHolySinner Registered User (1/17/03 10:39 am) Reply	Re: Response to Yogananda Criticism Astral7, About eleven years ago at convocation I saw a video of nuns putting a golden crown on Daya Mata's head as she sat on a giant pillow throne, then the nuns showered her with rose petals....... That was it for me! The American in me detests hierarchy: separating people by class or raising one above another. If she doesn't want to be worshiped why did she allow that to be video taped and shown? As for her words of wisdom (on her audio tapes) she sounds more like a disappointed mother scolding you than a loving understanding mother of wisdom. Personally I don't like being talked AT like a disobedient child. I don't expect a rational answer from you, I'm just conveying my experiences to all reading.
astral7 Registered User (1/17/03 12:02 pm) Reply	Re: Response to Yogananda Criticism Dear H-S- Well, being in a light and generous mood today, I will attempt give you a rational answer anyhow! If one is not there to also learn something then why is one there? A leader that has a lot to hide no doubt would have taken the time to make sure the video cameras are off, or easily had it destroyed later. It could also be that surely it was quite a surprise for her, like when someone is surprised at a birthday party - you know! No need to come along and say who the heck does he think he is! Hope you are not denying other persons the right to honor those they love and respect. Be Positive! As for her talks and videos in general, if you feel like you are being "talked down to" it may not be fair of you to blame the speech of others everytime your ego winces. I have personally found them of very high life guiding and inspirational quality. And totally unpretentious. If you felt for whatever personal reason that you heard things in a way that bothered you - that is your right to judge in that way. Albeit - there are times when it seems other ways of talking don't even register with some persons. Especially if they are hearing facts that remind them of guilt, their own confusion, short comings, jealousy, anger, & and/or immaturity, or who knows what. In my limited experience, that is how I sort out my true friends, those who tell me the things I may not like to hear! These are the people that I know care for me and love me, these are the ones I trust! As for all of the other platitudes - we can do without them. And when such a one speaks with common sense and wisdom for my welfare, be they a great Yogini like Daya Mata or one of my children - I welcome it! Whenever somenone tells me that they are offended because they were being,"talked down to", is it an indication of low self esteem & dignity? I know Yoganandaji had to deal with this problem over and over again in others. May be there are times when we take something said too personally or seriously. However, since I do respect Daya Mata, it feels good that you chose what you did to criticize her, and could not find any wrong in her actual words the matter she was talking about. Last of all, I would like to share an incident re one of the times I met with Daya Mata. It was at the 1979 Self-Realization Fellowship Convocation in LA . Just after her talk from the stage she came down into the isle and personally greeted anyone who wished to speak with her for a moment. Well, this was the first time my wife had met her, and I noticed that for the rest of the evening she was very quiet. "What's the problem," I asked her. It was then that she told me how mistaken she was about that Great Lady. She was pleasantly surprised at Daya Mata's warmth and clear awareness of all of us and our needs. After a few moments in DM's presence there was a profound and beneficial change in my wife's life and attitude re SRF and Daya Mata. Such is the blessing of one who is one with divine love. Sharing with Respect Astral7 Edited by: astral7 at: 1/18/03 10:36:35 pm
Lobo Registered User (1/18/03 8:00 pm) Reply	Re: Response to Yogananda Criticism Holy S, The picture that you describe as being videotaped appeared in one of SRF's publications as well. My memory tells me it was in the SRF Magazine, but it could've been one of her books. My personal feeling about that picture is the same as yours. Can you imagine Master Yogananda allowing anyone to "crown" him? Oh well, I guess having his Crown Chakra permanently opened had to suffice. Edited by: Lobo at: 1/18/03 8:36:09 pm

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