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truth is bitter
Registered User
(2/25/03 9:22 pm)
Reply 		Re: To: parampara
Hello dear Parampara,
I have taken special interest in your comments, on this board, so even though you have gone out to sea, I am sure you will come out of it every now and then to see, the juicy gossip going on here.

Firstly I would like to point to you, when you mentioned.'About a character in the Mahabharat listening to gossip..etc etc.' that the people on this board are not listening to gossip here, rather, they are airing their own experiences, a vast difference in the two as you can gather.So them getting affected by gossip and cultivating doubts is out of question. They do not have any doubts, anymore, thanks to WALRUS. What they do have are experiences now,and not doubts. Again a vast difference between the two as you can now gather.
You have gone on to say."Be true to your master, and of course, he is no less your authentic self. More so than any organization."
Again I would point to you that, that is exactly what many of the people on this board are finding out,that Yogananda and the organization are not the same. Also when one participates in an organization,( for organizations are made up of people or so called members.) and finds out that there are things that are not right there, it is the right dharma of such people to not participate in the wrong doings,but if they still want to
participate, it would be natural for them to want to change
certain things, and they should help to do that.
This is how one uses their God given sense of discernment. The idea is to be humble, not gullible, again there is the difference between the two as you may now gather. Also if one is humble and not gullible they would have no fear of reading something on this board, and form doubts, without first hand experience. Unlike what you mentioned this site being immensely harmful to spiritual seekers.
By saying so, you are implying that spiritual seekers should have a quality of non discrimination and be gullible.
Every one generally speaks from their own understanding of things, and you and myself are no exceptions, in saying so, I would like to point to you, that from all you say, it has been gathered that you fall into this category, where you feel it is better to ignore all the wrong doings of the organizations, that one participates in, pretending they are fine, as long as you do not think of them. So that one can dwell in that "holier than thou place in themselves.' Like an ostrich.You see it is fine to have that attitude, as long is one does not participate in such an organization, but if they do,(like you said you are in the organization) they are lending a hand in the wrong doings, even if they want to believe otherwise.Here it would be appropriate to mention Mohandas Ghandi, who is called Bapu, the father of a vast nation India. with millions of people calling him that. I am sure you have heard of him, he was a highly spiritual man, and that there is no doubt about. And he espoused that one should not cooperate in any wrong doings, if one cannot fix it one must atleast not participate in it. He was for non cooperation in a non violent way. So not only did he practice non-violence, but the bigger part, and the more difficult part was the non-co operation part, which he practiced.
But you see, it is only a highly spiritual person who can discern that to be spiritual and lead spiritual lives, one need not be walked all over. Abuse and untruths of any kind will not destroy one's ego,(As SRF have conveniently resorted to,
to justify their wrongdoing) rather it will put one in darkness and lead them further into the hold of ignorance.
No untruths make truth, that is as simple as that.
The other thing that you demonstrate from your writing is that you are really not that conversant
with SRF, by saying that "there are ashrams to live with husband and wife" There are no such ashrams, so obviously you do not know much about SRF even in India, let alone in the west.
And when you say that you fail to understand people becoming agnostic etc, I can see very clearly why you do fail to see this, here are the reasons.
a) You are not some one who knows what is going on, in SRF.
for you did demonstrate it by what you said earlier.
b) You are holier than thou, which is a figment of your imagination, so that you can think you are very spiritual person, trying to lead a good spiritual life this way.
Some of the qualities, people with this holier than thou attitude display, is insensitivity towards others who have questions, and any spiritual guru will tell you, questions are a very healthy thing, unlike doubts, but doubts are only allowed to be harboured when well wishing peoples questions are not answered. There is no guru who says don't even think of a question, just follow me. I will run your mind, and I will have the self realization for you, have you heard of such a guru?
So again I point to you that there is a difference between the two, having questions, and having doubts. I am sure you can gather this now. The subject of spirituality is so full of subtleties, that it is easy to overlook what is what sometimes,
I am sure this is the way you may be feeling, though you want to have good intentions, you do not understand these subtle nature of things.
But life is a learning curve, and that is why perhaps you did visit this site after all.
With kind wishes to you, and bon voyage.



Edited by: truth is bitter at: 2/26/03 11:18:46 am
chuckle chela
Registered User
(2/25/03 10:28 pm)
Reply 		Great post, Borg!
Borg, you wrote: "Through [the Walrus], we no longer have to feel isolated and estranged (not to mention crazy) for seeing things differently than SRF. We can process ideas and take part in intelligent discussions that help us see things more clearly. We can petition for change (this letter) and try to help others who may be confused or upset by mainstream SRF. We can find ways to follow our Guru outside the confines of SRF, and for those whose path is different but similar to our own, they can find pointers to other teachers and traditions."

I think you've spelled out the value of the Walrus very clearly and concisely.

You also wrote: "Everyone is where they need to be - SRF monastics, Astral7/Parampara types, Walrus types, and all other seekers. Let's try to help and encourage each other in whatever ways are helpful to us. One size does not fit all."

Another great point.

BTW, I noticed in your portion of the letter to Vishwananda, you mentioned "non- violent communication." Would I be correct in assuming you're familiar with Marshall Rosenberg's work? I found out about it from a friend at one of the temples. Great stuff. It could be a valuable tool for all of us in SRF to learn to use.

soulcircle
Registered User
(2/26/03 12:45 am)
Reply 		truth is bitter
in love, i thank you

Borg108
Registered User
(2/26/03 1:03 am)
Reply 		Re: Thanks, chuckle chela
I agree that Marshall's stuff is great, but you have to be willing to work it. It compliments and enhances the spiritual path and would be good for all of us to know and practice.

The NVC Model is comprised of 4 components:

1) The concrete actions we are OBSERVING that are affecting our well-being
2) How we are FEELING in relation to what we are observing
3) The NEEDS, values, desires, etc. that are creating our feelings
4) The concrete actions we REQUEST in order to enrich our lives.

Those interested should get the book Nonviolent Communication: A Language of Compassion by Marshall Rosenberg.

Edited by: Borg108 at: 2/28/03 1:43:53 am
chela2020
Registered User
(2/26/03 5:02 am)
Reply 		Re: To: parampara
truth is bitter,

That was a great post. Thanks. I will save it to read again and again.

Edited by: chela2020 at: 2/26/03 1:34:18 pm
soulcircle
Registered User
(2/26/03 3:35 pm)
Reply 		let's get a meaningful goal and result
Guests and All,

Let's get an annual statement by hook or crook, and realizing we won't, let's move on beyond kindergarten. :eek

What are your feelings?

soulcircle

chela2020
Registered User
(2/28/03 2:46 pm)
Reply 		Letter to Bro. Vishwananda
I mailed the letter today.

--Chela2020

MastersChela
Registered User
(2/28/03 3:21 pm)
Reply 		Re: Letter to Bro. Vishwananda
I just wanted to commend you all on the effort and the vibrations of love and caring that you've put into this endeavor. I didn't feel it was my place to contribute to the letter because I'm not a member of SRF, but I must say that this is a POWERFUL movement in a positive direction for the Walrus. Even if this letter doesn't have a direct effect, this, to me, is what is so great about this list.

It's wonderful to see people get beyond the hurt that SRF has inflicted on them and try to make effective change for the better instead of just dumping them altogether and feeling bitter. THIS is what Master meant when he said that "Only love can take my place." A beautiful effort, my fellow Gurubais! Jai Walrus!!

chela2020
Registered User
(2/28/03 5:05 pm)
Reply 		Re: Letter to Bro. Vishwananda
Thank you Master's chela, I wish to thank everyone that helped Borg and I. I appreciate all the help that Borg did in the editing and suggestions to the letter. And I felt that everyone really did a great job on their letters.

I signed my name and address to the envelope, so if I hear anything, you will all be the first to know. If we don't hear anything, at least we have spoken. It is now in God's hands. If anyone wishes to take the letter and mail it to anyone else, they may.



Edited by: chela2020 at: 2/28/03 5:05:42 pm
soulcircle
Registered User
(3/3/03 3:52 pm)
Reply 		is it true?
Guests and All,

What is this rumor that Ronald Eisley is responding to the letter and saying that the bulk of the suggestions are being put into place immediately?

humorcircle/rumorcircle/livin on curry circle
:rollin

P.S. Also heard that all monastics were called together given a copy, and told all the changes are going into effect, those not immediately effective will be in place by August.
:hat

Ringbearer7
Registered User
(3/3/03 7:08 pm)
Reply 		Re: is it true?
Also in this issue...

* Half-monkey half-man admitted to the Third Order!

* Aliens threaten to invade but senior nuns turns them back with "Only Love!"

* Brother's psychic celebrity predictions for 2003!

* Curse: Encinitas devotee transformed into a 180 lbs bunny rabbit by angry monastic with siddhas and a serious 'tude!

* Saddam Hussien: Agrees to give up WMD in exchange for admittance into Encinitas postulant ashram!

Edited by: Ringbearer7 at: 3/3/03 8:32:49 pm
crogman1
Registered User
(3/3/03 7:40 pm)
Reply 		Re: is it true?
I can verify that 3 of the 5 are true. I don't know about the other 2. I hope you didn't make those two up?

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