>
SRF Walrus
Mt. Washington, Ca
Open discussions about SRF
Gold Community SRF Walrus
    > SRF Mother Center
        > What happened to the plans in Daya Mata's memo?		 New Topic    Add Reply

Page 1 2
<< Prev Topic | Next Topic >>
Author Comment
KS
Registered User
(3/27/04 6:32 am)
Reply 		What happened to the plans in Daya Mata's memo?
Two years ago a memo from Daya Mata was posted on this message board. It discussed the desire to change and adapt better to the growing organization. It was put out just after the SRF “rebellion” was put down which was probably one of the lowest points in SRF’s short history.
pub78.ezboard.com/fsrfwalrusfrm1.showMessage?topicID=26.topic

It is now two years after the memo that started this thread. As far as anyone knows that Board of Directors workgroup never even met to discuss the problems. There was no follow up, no status and no report on the great decisions they made. Transparency is not an SRF term. Of course since they never did meet there is nothing positive to report anyway.

The legacy of the last few years is a telling one. A large number of monastics and employees have left in disgust at the troubling environment and have not been replaced. It is difficult to think of this place as anything but a weird cult living off the reputation of a great Master. As these elderly ladies in charge become older many eager ambitious young nuns have started nipping at their heels for power. The place is spiraling into chaos and oblivion.

Donations are down, membership down, and the attitudes of those who have stayed are terrible. The poor attitudes are easy to understand since those who have stayed are those too emotionally weak to make the decisions to leave or those too old to leave and try to make it on their own. In order to prevent any future “rebellions” for positive change the controls on people are even worse than before. What a happy place!

They continue to export jobs out of SRF so they can get rid of employees. This costs them more but cost is not a consideration. The Walrus is full of examples of why they dislike employees.

Thanks for the encouraging memo SRF.

KS
Registered User
(12/6/05 6:14 am)
Reply 		Re: What happened to the plans in Daya Mata's memo?
We are still waiting on the change outlined in Daya Mata's memo. It has been years now. NOTHING changed. How sad.

And how completely predictable.

maggie mcclintock
Registered User
(12/23/05 11:16 am)
Reply 		Re: What happened to the plans in Daya Mata's memo?
KS,

I have come to the same conclusion. Nothing will ever change in regards to SRF. I still hear stories of people getting hurt. So numerous it is amazing to me. SRF still hides behind many lies that are slowly becoming exposed. Not only are their secrets being exposed, but the other problem is that people catch monks and nuns lying to them directly. It is sad, but I have learned to not expect much else. I do believe there are some wonderful monks and nuns in SRF, though.

Edited by: maggie mcclintock at: 1/14/06 10:46 am
member108
Registered User
(1/7/06 7:40 am)
Reply 		Re: What happened to the plans in Daya Mata's memo?
If monks and nuns see first hand, day after day, that Master's ideals are not there, if they see the lying, cheating and corruption first hand or are forced to be involved in it, if they can see for themselves the low character of SRF and that it is not what it says it is...... why do they stay? They DO see it, it is impossible to avoid.

You say there are some "wonderful monks and nuns" still there. I would ask why are they still there? Comfort? Fear of trying to make it on their own? Lazy? Can't make the big risky decision to leave? Love the easy life style? It is fairly easy to appear "wonderful". Serving God is another matter.

To copy a phrase from the born-agains -- "What would Master do?" To answer that we need not guess. His AY is full of encounters with pretenders. I wonder if in the ashram they limit your reading to approved chapters of the AY??

Edited by: member108 at: 1/7/06 7:41 am
maggie mcclintock
Registered User
(1/14/06 11:13 am)
Reply 		Re: What happened to the plans in Daya Mata's memo?
member 108,

I think many stay out of fear of taking care of themselves on the outside. Others stay due to loyality to Yoganandaji. Maybe some stay because they feel that they can help others. Perhaps others are just brainwashed into believing that SRF's monks and nuns are teaching them in the same way that Yoganandaji taught them, which they very well may be doing. After all Yoganandaji scolded devotees, screamed at them, and gave them discipline in harsh ways. Many left him when he was alive due to his harsh treatment. I once read in a book by someone who had left SRF for Ramana's group, and while I no longer know the title of the book, he had said that Yogananda said and did things that would cause the common man to leave him. I guess I am pretty common because I don't believe that teaching in harsh ways helps anyone to grow spiritually. I believe only love can do that. What I have seen happen is, the abuse continues on down the line. I realize from talking with a monk who is in another Hindu/Christian group that all gurus, swamis in Hindu groups are harsh. Then I began reading books about gurus, and I was really turned off by the guru/disciple relationship. It felt too much like a disfunctional family with the disciple being the child. I also remember reading in Jack Kornfield's book "A Path With A Heart" that those who have been abused in their lives should look for a group that is not harsh. Which is what I had to do. Perhaps many of the monks and nuns are strong enough to handle this treatment, whereas others, the more sensitve, and I might add, "Kinder souls", leave. I have noticed in my life that those who have left SRF are the wiser and kinder ones, and so that is why I say this. Yet I have often heard from SRF members and monastics that those who have left are "emotionally disturbed" and "disloyal" to master. Brainwashing is a tricky thing. Once you have been scared out of your wits that leaving will cause you to be lost for many lifetimes, once you have been brainwashed to believe that leaving means being disloyal to master, well, it makes it very hard to leave. This I know. It took me over a year to leave SRF for those very reasons. Also I would say that my love for Yoganandaji kept me there too. I left to keep my sanity or to regain it; I don't know which. But it took finding a place that is peaceful for me to even be able to meditate again and to trust organizations, which I must add, I trust very few now.

What would master do? I have heard it said that he was planning to return to India before his death. Was he really? I don't know. I have read of some yogis leaving their groups when things went wrong. I remember that the Buddha left one of his groups for quite some time because of the bickering that was going on and because they would not listen to him. A very wise thing to do. I believe he came back a year later. I am not sure of the time frame here.

I guess I would really have to be in their shoes to really know why they stay. And to really know if they are as wonderful as I have been told, I would have to know the persons that have been said to be "wonderful." I remember two monks that I felt were just wonderful, but they left a few years ago. I can't really say that I have met many wonderful monks or nuns in SRF.

I was most interested in your statement about the AY being full of encounters with pretenders. I wonder what you mean by that? I know that Swami Dhirananda felt that changes should have been made to the AY because there were a lot of false claims in it. Much of what I had read in it I had found hard to believe at the time, but then I took the stance, "What do I know?" Since then I have talked with other Indian swamis that said that many of the things in the AY just were not true. Which things I could not tell you, but I imagine that the woman who never ate or drank was not true.

It would be interesting to hear your take on the AY. Still, when I read the book it was the most exciting book I had read in ages. It brought me back to religion, so it had a good influence on me.

member108
Registered User
(1/21/06 2:25 am)
Reply 		Re: What happened to the plans in Daya Mata's memo?
The AY was a very interesting book. Millions have read it. I mean it was full of lessons about 'pretenders' because it is full of stories about people of some spiritual attainment who are not worthly of being followed. Fakes or 'pretenders'.

Perfume saint
Yogananda's fellow students at his first ashram experience
A Mohammedan Wonder-Worker

.... to name a few. I am trying to remember others?

Paramadas
Registered User
(1/21/06 11:51 pm)
Reply 		feeling conflicted and confused
Maggie,
Sorry to put you on the spot, but your last post raises issues with me. After those revelations on another thread of the Walrus about PY praising Hitler, I have been quite confused about how I feel about Yogananda. In your last post, you said, "Yogananda said and did things that would cause the common man to leave him". Yet further down you mentioned, "I would say that my love for Yoganandaji kept me there". So, are these contrasting statements just an expression of feeling conflicted and confused, like me, or...I don't know....do you want to respond to this somehow?

I have also noticed that many stories from direct disciples seem to mention harsh treatment by Yogananda. There is an audio cassette of an informal talk given by Cliff Kennell, who was a young monk when PY was alive, and he details a "day in the life" of the monks and nuns who accompanied Master from Encinitas down to San Diego for services and work. If you take the blinders off and examine how Yogananda treated the renunciants, he was really mean. Compared to his praise of Hitler, which is unforgivable, IMHO, his meanness is small potatoes, but it still raises the issue of whether this guy was a Colossal Guru or a Colossal Jerk, or both?

apsarasRLD
Registered User
(1/22/06 3:36 pm)
Reply 		Re: feeling conflicted and confused
Don't go that way.
As far as Hitler is concerned, when PY made those statements, Hitler had done more good than bad for Germany and hadn't completely turned to the dark side yet. In better company (instead of Goebbels and co.) Hitler could have done a lot of good, and PY tried to talk to him on his visit to Europe. He wouldn't see him and then PY said Hitler was too far gone (for accepting guidance).
Noone can tell the future which is always in flux.

Paramadas
Registered User
(1/22/06 7:37 pm)
Reply 		praising a butcher
apsarasRLD,
PY made those statements in the December issue of 1933 East-West magazine. Hitler came to power in February of that year. In order to win the election to chancellor, he had to torture, intimidate and murder anyone who opposed him. One month after his election, the first concentration camp, Dachau, was built. His anti-semetic philosophy was already well-known. To say that such a monster had done "more good than bad" for Germany is a gross distortion of history (and profoundly offensive to anyone with a speck of Jewish blood in them, but we don't need to pursue that angle). It's just plain wrong. Hitler was spewing hatred and intolerance with every speech he made. Would you claim that this was doing more good than harm? Hitler was perverting children to his hateful ways with the Hitler Youth, taking boys as young as ten years old away from their parents and teaching them to value brutal competitiveness. He was also indoctrinating them to NOT listen to their parents. Would you like to propose that this was doing Germans more good than harm? In short, people who say this about Hitler fall into three categories:
1) they don't know their history
2) they weren't there at the time
3) they're neo-Nazis.

Of course all of this is just saying that the average person in 1933 could see that Hitler was a monster. But Yogananda claimed to be an all-knowing avatar. For someone who was supposedly in tune with God, he sure didn't seem to act like it, at least not this time....or are you claiming that God didn't know or care about Hitler's message of hatred and racial intolerance?

BTW, there is no proof whatsoever that PY tried to contact Hitler. That rumor has been floating around SRF for a long while, but as far as I'm concerned, it's just a myth that SRF cooked up to try to fool the more gullible devotees, and to explain away Yogananda's terrible lapse in judgment. If Yogananda did indeed try to contact Hitler, there would be correspondence of some sort. Let SRF show the world this correspondence if it exists. My guess is that they can't, because I don't think it exists. My suspicion is that this rumor is nothing more than a smokescreen that someone in SRF dreamed up---a "red herring" so to speak.

Sorry, amigo, there is no escaping my condemnation. Yogananda praised the most satanic monster the human race has produced since Vlad the Impaler. If you can honestly put a positive spin on that, then I seriously question your good judgment.

Edited by: Paramadas at: 1/22/06 8:07 pm
apsarasRLD
Registered User
(1/23/06 10:40 am)
Reply 		Re: praising a butcher
There's a lot of anger and indignation in your posts.
You're blaming Yogananda for not knowing everything about Hitler. Where did you read that an avatar is supposed to know everything about everyone all the time?
A saint is someone who loves God and is drunk with his love. And drunk with God he was, to the point he wasn't even able to read a newspaper because all he saw was light.
Not all psychics are saints and no saint is perfectly psychic.
And hindsight is 20/20. Congratulations on it!

Paramadas
Registered User
(1/23/06 11:30 am)
Reply 		Re: praising a butcher
Yes, there is alot of anger and disappointment in my posts. I was led to believe that the Guru was all-knowing, and it is a frightening disappointment to find out that he's not "as advertised." Where did I get the idea that an avatar is supposed to know everything? Well, how about this:

He is pure, permanent unmoving,
The everlasting seer of all,
Far far beyond qualities and thought,
Guru-Lord I bow to Thee.

Sound familiar? PY wrote those words himself.

apsarasRLD, you have a very low opinion of what an avatar is supposed to be capable of, and you are bringing me around to your beliefs, but that is certainly NOT the opinion of the SRF leadership nor the majority of devotees. I used to be one of them.

As far as your belief that nobody can see the future, Yogananda disagreed with that notion, and provided at least two examples in the AY, the strawberry incident with SY and the people drowning in the Sea of Japan with LM. On a theoretical level, there is no past nor future in God's eyes. There is only the eternal "now". PY said that Babaji has known all phases of his life from the beginning. So, your notion that the future is somehow unknowable does not hold up to scrutiny. Dreadful sorry.

Edited by: Paramadas at: 1/23/06 11:31 am
apsarasRLD
Registered User
(1/23/06 1:25 pm)
Reply 		Re: praising a butcher
Actually the words you quoted weren't written by Paramhansaji but a translation of an ancient vedic chant.
Furthermore around the time PY said those words people weren't even aware he was the Guru. In those days everyone thought Sri Yukteswar was the Guru and swami Yogananda his humble emissary, so that's how he presented himself. After his return from India the people that accompanied him there corrected that notion.
It's obvious the future can't be predicted accurately. PY also warned about the unholy trinity of world wars that somehow by some prayers from some people was avoided.
Allow me to end with an appropriate quote from the autobiography.
"Many disciples have a preconceived image of a guru by which they judge his words and actions. Such persons often complained that they did not understand Sri Yukteswar.
"Neither do you understand God!" I retorted on one occasion. "If a saint were clear to you,you would be one!"
You never met Paramahansa Yogananda, and judge him from an intellectual perspective; who are we to judge one another, or one who isn't able to defend/speak for himself except through our own intuition, which is locked by same intellectualism. I hope you won't stay in this rut for long, there's too much beauty outside of the land of criticism.


Edited by: apsarasRLD at: 1/23/06 1:30 pm
Paramadas
Registered User
(1/23/06 8:38 pm)
Reply 		weak excuses
Ok, now I'm getting angry.

Yes, those words were indeed written by PY, they were HIS translation of the ancient vedic chant.

What the flying !@#$% does it matter whether other people thought PY was a Guru in 1933 or not? That is a completely irrelevant statement. You're just trying to find some excuse for Yogananda's lapse in judgment.

The entire thrust of those stories in AY, not to mention the quote about Babaji knowing the course of his life from the beginning, all demonstrate Yogananda's assertion that a Guru can and should know the future. You can argue otherwise 'til you're blue in the face, but you're contradicting your own Guru.

So you think that the third world war was avoided? Oh please. It's coming, alright, in less than a decade.

And finally, this whole anti-intellectual nonsense is an excuse that boneheaded bhaktis wheel out when they've got nothing left to say. For one thing, my disagreement with Yogananda is not intellectual in the least. It is, rather, a deep disappointment that my Guru would praise the worst monster of the 20th century. Where's the intellectualism in that? Where's the convoluted logic? Where's the abstruse philosophy? Once again, you're just trying to find some weak excuse for reprehensible behavior by a spiritual leader. Sure, there may be times when a Guru says or does things that defy logic, but for crying out loud don't use that sort of argument as an excuse for praising Adolf Hitler! Talk about twisted logic---now you're the one sounding intellectual. Just go with your heart, Mr. Bhakti---does your heart tell you that Hitler gave "uplifting guidance" to Germany as Yogananda said? Try watching one of the newsreels of Hitler's speeches in which he is spewing anti-semetic rhetoric or marshalling his country for a war of revenge. "Are you ready for total war?", he would repeat over and over. What does your heart tell you? All I can tell you is that my heart wants to break, thinking of my Guru praising that monster.

Edited by: Paramadas at: 1/24/06 7:30 am
apsarasRLD
Registered User
(1/24/06 10:19 am)
Reply 		Re: weak excuses
thanks for sharing that with us.
I hope you feel better now you got that off your chest.

Paramadas
Registered User
(1/24/06 11:49 am)
Reply 		focusses the attention
Well, thanks for your concern, aps, but I have never understood why one should feel better after explaining something tragic. The tragic part is still there, undiminished, so no, I do not feel better at all. I really cringe at the idea of agreeing with the actor Tom Cruise (talk about a colossal jerk), but he was recently shown on TV in an interview in which he bascially said that psychiatry is a bunch of bunk. Well, hate to say it, but I agree in spades. One of Freud's tools was to try to make a person feel better by expressing something that's bothering them. Never could understand why that would do a lick 'o good. If anything, it just focusses my attention on the object of my disapproval, and brings the hated subject more clearly into view. The net result of our discussions has been very useful, and thanks for debating this with me, but this thread has crystalized my feelings on the subject, and made Yogananda's indiscretion more flagrant and more serious.

maggie mcclintock
Registered User
(1/24/06 12:07 pm)
Reply 		Re: feeling conflicted and confused
Thank you for your post. I can see how it could be confusing.

But before I begin I want to say that agree with what you are saying about Yogananda in regards to Hitler. After all an avatar is said to be God, and therefore, he/she is omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent. If omniscient doesn’t mean that you know everything, then all I can say is SRF had made it clear to us that Yogananda knew everything. And I agree that you have a right to feel angry. SRF and Yogananda have betrayed us all.

Also, it is my own feeling that those who tell us to not criticize others are trying to stop us from saying what we feel because it is uncomfortable to them, and then they go on criticizing us, thereby doing to us what they said not to do to others. You have a right to say what you feel about Yogananda. Even the Dalai Lama has said, "If one has a teacher who is not qualified, who is engaging in unsuitable or wrong behavior, then it is appropriate for the student to criticize that behavior."

So back to your question: I became very dissatisfied with SRF before I knew anything definite about Yogananda. I stayed due to my loyalty and love for him. I had read things about him in Daya Mata’s books, as well as in the childhood biography, Mejda, and those books disturbed me. (Later on, the Trilogy of Love disturbed me even more.) In Daya Mata’s books it had to do with how he was treating her. I called MC and was told that he did those things to help her, to prepare her for the presidency, that he was always just pretending to be angry, and that it was to destroy the ego. I tried to accept his behavior by using those same justifications, but it wasn’t easy to do, and so I had a nagging feeling about him for maybe a year. I think many will agree with me that if you love someone dearly, especially if you consider him or her to be God, you will justify much of what they say and do, but at the same time doubts will creep in if you have certain sensibilities, and in time those doubts will eat away at you until you get them settled one way or another.
My desire to know the truth caused me to search further into the life of Yogananda, and I left him as a result. It was a difficult road. Perhaps if MC had not made him into an avatar I could have accepted some of his imperfections, but not all. I could never accept anyone’s harsh treatment of disciples or harming them in anyway. It is true, I had tried to accept it, but try as hard as I may, I could not. I believe that you can teach all of the lessons that a person needs to learn in life through love and end up with better disciples—disciples who are kind and loving and not harsh like those produced in SRF and in other ashrams. Harsh treatment, to me, is only a means of controlling others. But I have learned that is how most gurus behave. They all say that it is done to “destroy the ego,” but instead it destroys the person, not the ego, which is why so many end up on the psychologist’s couch. Destroying the ego partly means to me, that you think of others, and in thinking of others you treat them with kindness and have a desire to help them on their spiritual path. I have found some quotes on the ego:
“The ego cannot be destroyed. Ego is the fifteenth tattva or category in a manifestation consisting of thirty-six categories according to Triká. Tattva-s cannot be destroyed, but only manifested, preserved and withdrawn. If you are trying to destroy your ego, you are wasting your time.”
“It'd be about getting rid of defiled thoughts, or simply not following them with action or more thoughts.

When a person realizes a full-conviction, without doubt or question, that an undefiled mind is a correct attitude in life, then illusory ideas of self can be said to have vanished, but we ought to realize that when getting rid of the illusory, in truth, nothing vanishes.”

"Killing the ego" is a metaphor. There is nothing to kill or get rid of, except the illusion of the "created" self that stands outside experience and comments on it.

“I don't get this 'ego' talk, tbh. I have never found it skilful. So we identified something rooted in ego - so what are you going to do about that? Get rid of it? Ego getting rid of ego - I have never seen a sword cut itself.”
Imo, not-self practise is not so much about getting rid of these 'self-tendencies' than it is simply to understand how it works and, through awareness, realise how reality is vaster than what 'I' perceive, without necessarily excluding 'me'. 'I' tags along, but perhaps that bit more humbled by exposure to a vaster field of awareness than it's normal ego-centered focus - perhaps that more capable of taking on greater altruistic values.

But trying to get rid of self-centered thinking? Never going to work imo. It is a much too self-centered ambition in the first place.”
And from an article: Confronting the Guru/Disciple Relationship:
“…The guru's temper tantrums are often interpreted as lila, the Lord's play,
or as opportunities for the follower to overcome ego attachments.
By this view, a student must have faith in the guru no matter what action the guru takes. In turn the guru will reveal the disciple's remaining ego attachments. This requires surrender. Surrender need not mean giving up autonomous thinking, but rather rising above the ego, releasing ego-based desires, and allowing the guru (from his or her enlightened perspective) to guide and mold the student. Listening to the guru's instructions, contemplating the guru's words, must be integrated into one's whole life…
Unfortunately the level of codependence and dysfunction in our society creates a tremendous possibility for abuse in the authoritarian nature of this relationship. (See Janet Jacobs' Divine Disenchantment: Deconverting from New Religions, Indiana University Press, 1989, for an excellent discussion of this subject.) According to psychologist and author Alan Roland, Americans seem to "commit rapidly and completely, or not at all." Followers' devotion to the guru appears to start very soon after, if not at the time of, their initial introduction. They tend to relate any doubts that arise, not to the authenticity or ability of the guru, but to themselves as disciples.
Some gurus have abused, sexually exploited, and financially profited from their followers. Behavior many would find unacceptable from friends, lovers, or family members is rationalized when it comes from the guru. Why does this happen? Practices Americans might call erratic or abusive are sometimes used by Eastern masters to stop the rational mind and allow enlightenment to enter. Moreover disciples are frequently well entrenched in the relationship before discrepancies in the guru's behavior may arise. This begins what Katy Butler terms "a mutual dance of delusion," leading to denial of one's own feelings and perceptions and ultimately distorting one's sense of reality.
Gurus are sometimes believed to be above ethical laws that apply to everyone else...
The Dalai Lama has said, "If one has a teacher who is not qualified, who is engaging in unsuitable or wrong behavior, then it is appropriate for the student to criticize that behavior."
The Dalai Lama explains such situations by saying that while ‘part of the blame lies with the student, because too much obedience, devotion, and blind acceptance spoils a teacher, part also lies with the spiritual master because he lacks the integrity to be immune to that kind of vulnerability.’”

After reading The Guru Papers, talking to others, and due to my own experiences, I have come to realize that gurus have many tricks up their sleeves that they use to control others such as not speaking to a devotee for over a year or more, screaming at them, making them stand in corners, making them scrub the ashram floors with a toothbrush, telling them that you must obey the guru or bad things will happen to you, causing them to fear leaving the guru for fear of certain punishments in the next life, criticizing them constantly over nothing they have really done, etc. Those that can be controlled stay with the guru, those that can’t be controlled leave. Then those that leave are labeled as “immature”, “bad disciples”, and “emotionally unstable.” I think otherwise. I think they are intelligent and not willing to be in a parent/child relationship again, but most of all I believe they have concern for how others are being treated, even themselves and have a strong sense of what is right and wrong.

I would like to know how to get ahold of the audio cassette by Cliff Kennell? Do they sell it at a temple?

I am sending you an ezboard e-mail if your box is open.

ranger20
Registered User
(1/25/06 10:29 am)
Reply 		Re: feeling conflicted and confused
Quote:
Perhaps if MC had not made him into an avatar I could have accepted some of his imperfections, but not all.
I think you've accurately nailed one of the key double binds in SRF - I'm using the concept of "double bind" the way clinicians who work with schizophrenics use it - as conflicting messages that drive people nuts.

Once I believe in a "Perfect Master," then begin to discover behaviors that are less than perfect the only "approved" option is to conclude that I cannot understand the master because I am steeped in delusion. Best to surrender (renounce my own perceptions and reasoning). Of course I can't really do that on the inside, which leaves me feeling like I bear the mark of Cain. I can't get to God except through the master, and he won't take me there because I don't really trust him, and all the other outwardly serene devotees at the group or the convo are good people in contrast to me.

What a sad structure SRF has built!

cussacat
Registered User
(1/28/06 4:44 am)
Reply 		Re: feeling conflicted and confused
Hey, folks: I've had some absence from the board, but upon returning, just had to jump into this one. Seems like we got off the trail of the original fox we were chasing, and on the trail of a rabbit, so I’d like to pick up the trail of the fox again, on what happened to the memo. The memo, as history has revealed, was only a spin for damage control. The slide has continued in every category. One could not know that, of course, but from the inside. The lies and spin continue. The same dysfunctional people and organizational activities that prompted the memo still continue, as usual. New people coming in are told that this is the same organization PY left, and nothing could be farther from the truth. It was on the way down just after he left, when monastics seized complete control, and has been on a runaway downhill slide to the brick wall ever since, and seemingly gaining momentum.

Faye will soon leave the body, and the ensuing monumental cat fight for the seat of "realized president" will only hasten the slide. Sad story.

Unless one has been on the inside of this place, and has experienced first hand what really goes on and what these monastics are really like, it's difficult, if not impossible, to accept, let alone understand, what the organization is really like, and why it is never going to adopt the changes suggested in the memo. On the inside, I left many of the meetings with these inane monastic administrators scratching my head, and asking, is this person playing with a full deck? The next question that crossed the mind after one of these encounters was, how long can this thing continue to function with such really counterproductive decisions being made from the top, and passed down through the line to the puppet in the meeting. Most businesses, run by these management methods (or lack of them), would fold in short order. SRF has lasted this long, imo, because of the long line of gullibles just asking to be fleeced. Sooner or later, likely sooner, the public will decide that the spin does not match the action, and stop being taken for a ride by the cult.

A point to be pondererd here is that SRF long time members, just like the "direct disciples", are virtually a dying breed. If you doubt this, take a poll at any temple service. Go to any convocation and listen to the only real "trump card" they've got going....the "direct disciple" who wows the newcomers (a large percentage of the audience) with, "If you could only have known him as I knew him". Within a few years, the only people making those spins before those audiences will be people who have only read the story, and trying to make intelligent sounding quotes, and desperately trying to keep alive the projected aboveness of the monastic image. The free ride is almost over.

My prediction, after the above mentioned catfight, is that we will witness another huge exit of monastics who will have had enough. The codependents who are left will "divide the spoils", and continue the internal organizational struggles for position, and will continue to become even more dysfunctional. At that point in history, there will be nothing left for them to offer the world, and they will multiply the implosion, based on the fact that SRF has always been an organization of, by, and for the monastics. Householders, like most of us, were, and still are, simply the cannon fodder who followed orders, and paid the bills by filling the begging bowls.

Monasteries have, from the beginning of their histories, been secretive places, populated by strange people, with large begging bowls. The early Christian monasteries, after which the SRF "ashrams" are patterned, are described in a delightfully informative book by William Dalrymple, entitled "From the Holy Mountain". This is a very readable, and well documented study of the history of early Christianity and Islamic growth and interaction, which gives a really clear background for much of what is the political and religious reality today. One of the historical insights, which bears on this present discussion, was that many of these early monastic enclosures, designed to shut the world out, also had their own in house insane asylums! No kidding. If you’re interested in history, this is a good read.

But back to the trail of the fox. I had the senior monastic and the top dog monk in America to tell me in person that the monastics who left were the incompetents and disloyals who simply could not take it. From my personal experiences inside this mess, I would rather guess that the ones who left were the ones who were smart enough to escape the asylum. The point being, the ones running the nuthouse are the nuts themselves.....the patients trying to run the hospital! Perhaps they should spend some of their (our) money on an in house asylum. It worked for the early Catholics. Sort of like the secret detention centers Bu$h has built in Europe. Damage control at its best.

SRF on the way out? How could it be otherwise? The positive changes suggested so long ago were never intended to be made. It was simply damage control for the moment. The naïve among us would be expected to breathe a sigh of relief and assume that the changes would be made, and keep writing the checks.

Used Yogi
Registered User
(1/28/06 12:13 pm)
Reply 		Re: feeling conflicted and confused
What is the attitude in the temples nowadays? I think Paramadas mentioned a while ago that donations were down.

Money will keep them going, and they will never be accountable to the outside membership that throws money at them. If people realize how much a dishonest cult they are behind the scenes and the donations stop, that is what will trigger the end.

moyma
Registered User
(1/28/06 8:11 pm)
Reply 		Re: feeling conflicted and confused
Don't under estimate SRF ...even after the top dogs are gone.
there positions will be stronger than ever. We can hope that people of reason will at some point lead the Org....But so what ? Anyone that really wants God will see thru the org's hype and find the truth.
I'm going to add this about the Hitler thing .....I did read the Whole article ....and yes he did praise Hitler for some things But there is no way after reading that whole thing that you come away thinking Hitler and Dictator's in general are a good thing. Thats what the article is about.....Hitler is just a small part of it....He was trying to include Germany in the world community .and stop the arms race.....I don't think you can take that article out of context like that....and the whole article is not on any website I have seen...anyway... nuf said.

Paramadas
Registered User
(1/29/06 5:54 pm)
Reply 		red herrings and green cabbage
Cussacat, I guess I'm responsible for dragging a red herring across this thread. I don't know how close you are to SRF nowadays, but I can assure you that SRF is in good hands, financially. There is zero percent probability that SRF will implode any time in the next few centuries, despite all the problems you correctly outlined. So long as SRF has money, the machinations you describe can successfully be ignored. Look at the Catholic church. Talk about a twisted wreckage of a church, and yet they continue to milk the naive for billions of dollars a year. Despite multiple examples of child abuse by priests and even bishops, the Church continues to grow in numbers (these statistics are widely available). SRF, for all its multiple problems, has never had a scandal on the order of child abuse, and prayerfully it never will, but my point is that, even something so blatantly inhuman as child abuse has not stopped the Catholic Church from growing. Bottom line: people are unbelievably gullible. They desperately WANT to give away their hard-earned money, and SRF has figured out years ago that you have to do two things to get that money:
1) you need an iron-clad spin, and niche that puts you a notch above competing churches. We have SIX pictures of enlightened saints on our altar....you know the rest of the story.
2) you must milk the rich. Master figured that out with Rajarsi, and Daya Ma and company have perfected it.
        Following up on methuser's comment on another thread (catch all/homeless devotees), I know a wealthy woman who regularly got to see Daya Mata and have lunch with her in years gone by, whereas I was always told that Ma was too busy to meet with individual devotees. What they should have told me at the main desk at Mother Center was that she was too busy to meet you unless you came bearing cash, and plenty of it.
        I was recently talking to a wealthy devotee who said that Bro. Vishwananda frequently calls rich devotees for donations, shmoozing them for money. Apparently, he's gotten the nickname of "Telemarketer." Some may laugh, but apparently he is very good at his job. The reality of the SRF leadership is that they are where they are because they are good at raising money.
        One of the devotees who counts the tithed money for both the Thursday and Sunday services at our temple, and who is also privy to the costs for running the temple, said that the two numbers don't match---the temple is taking in much less in donations than it takes to run the temple. Where's the remainder of the money coming from? You guessed it, from general donations by the devotees that SRF treats like royalty.
        If all this sounds a little too mercantile, a little money-grubbing, well, get a grip because SRF is a multi-million dollar business, and it is being run as such---behind the scenes, of course. The SRF leadership would love you to think that they're all meditating all the time, rather than cold-calling the folks with the cold cash.
        Not long ago at Hidden Valley there was a conducted retreat for "spiritualizing business." Brother Dharmananda gave a talk during the weekend, and he said that Hidden Valley has millions of dollars, and that this makes him a millionaire, so one can only assume that the rich are plowing huge amounts of money into SRF, even into Hidden Valley, which has always been SRF's step-child.
        So where does SRF's money all go? For one thing, it goes for private retreats for the monks and nuns. There are several of them that the public knows nothing about. The money also goes into a war chest for purchasing property such as the choice corner store location in Encinitas where the new bookstore/gift shop will go. Where else? If you've ever worked with the monks and nuns, you'll know that they are incredibly, unbelievably, frighteningly wasteful, so they've got to have a constant inflow of cash to cover their spend-thrift ways. It's been said before but I'll say it again---if these jokers had to get a job in the "real" world, they'd never make it. SRF breeds inefficiency. Not exactly sure why.
        And when was the last time that employees got a raise? SRF cries poverty every time the salary checks are handed out, and many devotees buy it, but they wouldn't if they opened their eyes to see how much money SRF spends, and wastes. SRF is hyprcritical for crying poverty, and then purchasing real estate worth multi-millions. What SRF should tell its employees is, "Sure we have the cash to give you a much-needed cost of living raise, but you're not worth it. We want to keep the money for our huge building projects."
        One final point that bears repeating---if you want to reform SRF, cut their purse-strings. SRF is strictly a "money talks, nobody walks" kind of church. I have been successful in convincing two wealthy devotees to stop tithing, and there is some hope that they will go on to tell their rich friends about the real situation in SRF. Somehow, we have to tell people the truth, but telling the average wage-earning devotee won't do much. If you want to help SRF, find the rich folks and tell THEM what's really going on.

Page 1 2 << Prev Topic | Next Topic >>

Add Reply

Email This To a Friend Email This To a Friend
Topic Control Image Topic Commands
Click to receive email notification of replies Click to receive email notification of replies
Click to stop receiving email notification of replies Click to stop receiving email notification of replies
jump to:

- SRF Walrus - SRF Mother Center -



Powered By ezboard® Ver. 7.32
Copyright ©1999-2005 ezboard, Inc.