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SRF Walrus > SRF Mother Center > Re: feeling conflicted and confused
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moyma Registered User (1/28/06 8:11 pm) Reply	Re: feeling conflicted and confused Don't under estimate SRF ...even after the top dogs are gone. there positions will be stronger than ever. We can hope that people of reason will at some point lead the Org....But so what ? Anyone that really wants God will see thru the org's hype and find the truth. I'm going to add this about the Hitler thing .....I did read the Whole article ....and yes he did praise Hitler for some things But there is no way after reading that whole thing that you come away thinking Hitler and Dictator's in general are a good thing. Thats what the article is about.....Hitler is just a small part of it....He was trying to include Germany in the world community .and stop the arms race.....I don't think you can take that article out of context like that....and the whole article is not on any website I have seen...anyway... nuf said.
Paramadas Registered User (1/29/06 5:54 pm) Reply	red herrings and green cabbage Cussacat, I guess I'm responsible for dragging a red herring across this thread. I don't know how close you are to SRF nowadays, but I can assure you that SRF is in good hands, financially. There is zero percent probability that SRF will implode any time in the next few centuries, despite all the problems you correctly outlined. So long as SRF has money, the machinations you describe can successfully be ignored. Look at the Catholic church. Talk about a twisted wreckage of a church, and yet they continue to milk the naive for billions of dollars a year. Despite multiple examples of child abuse by priests and even bishops, the Church continues to grow in numbers (these statistics are widely available). SRF, for all its multiple problems, has never had a scandal on the order of child abuse, and prayerfully it never will, but my point is that, even something so blatantly inhuman as child abuse has not stopped the Catholic Church from growing. Bottom line: people are unbelievably gullible. They desperately WANT to give away their hard-earned money, and SRF has figured out years ago that you have to do two things to get that money: 1) you need an iron-clad spin, and niche that puts you a notch above competing churches. We have SIX pictures of enlightened saints on our altar....you know the rest of the story. 2) you must milk the rich. Master figured that out with Rajarsi, and Daya Ma and company have perfected it. Following up on methuser's comment on another thread (catch all/homeless devotees), I know a wealthy woman who regularly got to see Daya Mata and have lunch with her in years gone by, whereas I was always told that Ma was too busy to meet with individual devotees. What they should have told me at the main desk at Mother Center was that she was too busy to meet you unless you came bearing cash, and plenty of it. I was recently talking to a wealthy devotee who said that Bro. Vishwananda frequently calls rich devotees for donations, shmoozing them for money. Apparently, he's gotten the nickname of "Telemarketer." Some may laugh, but apparently he is very good at his job. The reality of the SRF leadership is that they are where they are because they are good at raising money. One of the devotees who counts the tithed money for both the Thursday and Sunday services at our temple, and who is also privy to the costs for running the temple, said that the two numbers don't match---the temple is taking in much less in donations than it takes to run the temple. Where's the remainder of the money coming from? You guessed it, from general donations by the devotees that SRF treats like royalty. If all this sounds a little too mercantile, a little money-grubbing, well, get a grip because SRF is a multi-million dollar business, and it is being run as such---behind the scenes, of course. The SRF leadership would love you to think that they're all meditating all the time, rather than cold-calling the folks with the cold cash. Not long ago at Hidden Valley there was a conducted retreat for "spiritualizing business." Brother Dharmananda gave a talk during the weekend, and he said that Hidden Valley has millions of dollars, and that this makes him a millionaire, so one can only assume that the rich are plowing huge amounts of money into SRF, even into Hidden Valley, which has always been SRF's step-child. So where does SRF's money all go? For one thing, it goes for private retreats for the monks and nuns. There are several of them that the public knows nothing about. The money also goes into a war chest for purchasing property such as the choice corner store location in Encinitas where the new bookstore/gift shop will go. Where else? If you've ever worked with the monks and nuns, you'll know that they are incredibly, unbelievably, frighteningly wasteful, so they've got to have a constant inflow of cash to cover their spend-thrift ways. It's been said before but I'll say it again---if these jokers had to get a job in the "real" world, they'd never make it. SRF breeds inefficiency. Not exactly sure why. And when was the last time that employees got a raise? SRF cries poverty every time the salary checks are handed out, and many devotees buy it, but they wouldn't if they opened their eyes to see how much money SRF spends, and wastes. SRF is hyprcritical for crying poverty, and then purchasing real estate worth multi-millions. What SRF should tell its employees is, "Sure we have the cash to give you a much-needed cost of living raise, but you're not worth it. We want to keep the money for our huge building projects." One final point that bears repeating---if you want to reform SRF, cut their purse-strings. SRF is strictly a "money talks, nobody walks" kind of church. I have been successful in convincing two wealthy devotees to stop tithing, and there is some hope that they will go on to tell their rich friends about the real situation in SRF. Somehow, we have to tell people the truth, but telling the average wage-earning devotee won't do much. If you want to help SRF, find the rich folks and tell THEM what's really going on.
maggie mcclintock Registered User (1/31/06 11:26 am) Reply	Re: red herrings and green cabbage Paramadas, What an excellent post to cussacat. When I read Trilogy of Love, I was not impressed by the fact that Yogananda asked Durga Ma to ask Lynn for money. I sensed very deeply that this was not something that a guru should do. I have since learned that I was correct in my feelings. Yogananda did more than that, he asked his devotees for money when they didn't have any, and he didn't go through channels; he asked them directly. They left him and for good reason. So no wonder that Vishwananda does likewise. SRF doesn't have to change, as you very well pointed that out.
maggie mcclintock Registered User (1/31/06 11:31 am) Reply	Re: feeling conflicted and confused Moyma, Since you read the Hitler comments in a magazine that you own, could you please post them here for all to see? I just don't believe anything unless I can see it for myself. If they are on that web site that has all of his old magazines on them could you give me the website and the date of the magazine. I would appreciate it very much.
Paramadas Registered User (1/31/06 1:45 pm) Reply	the material on PY and Hitler (and much more) Maggie, there's alot of good info on PY and Hitler (and Stalin and Mulssolini) on the Walrus under: SRF Walrus > not in the Main Stream > early East-West Long passages are quoted verbatim from the original issues of the magazines.
cussacat Registered User (2/1/06 9:11 am) Reply	Re: Back to the fox Hey, gang: Mag and P'das, You're entirely right about the money thing and longevity, gullibility, etc. But, the point I was trying to make was that the "next generation" of self appointed "self realized" leaders, without the magic of the direct disciple spin, are going to be severily limited as to the telemarketing message, and will be much less attractive to the rich, now spellbound by the dangling carrot. Factor in the rapidly expanding information network, the decline in the now generation of the rich familiar with the original pitch, and the dilution of the real message to the world SRF is now presenting, and the implosion probabilities increase exponentially. The whole system is based on "fresh meat for the grinder". What's the next generation Vishwawhatshisname going to sell? Will his Indian understudy, Ishwarananda, be the next pitch man? Let's hear from some more insiders on this. In the meantime, have fun!
maggie mcclintock Registered User (2/2/06 10:27 am) Reply	Re: Back to the fox They will still see Yogananda.
Paramadas Registered User (2/2/06 11:47 am) Reply	Re: Back to the fox cussacat, Two thousand years after JC died, Catholic priests are still claiming a special relationship with him, and people believe them, so the chances that people will turn away from second generation SRF monks and nuns doesn't sound plausible.
maggie mcclintock Registered User (2/2/06 3:15 pm) Reply	Re: Back to the fox I was just going to say that.
SayItIsntSo Registered User (3/1/06 10:06 pm) Reply ezSupporter	Re: red herrings and green cabbage Oh, dear this is a few months old... (I think this post belongs under cults! But here goes). Frankly I�m surprised there aren�t more suicides by people who leave cults. It�s an isolating experience because you have no where to go. The last thing many can accept is another teaching, church or philosophy. Everyone becomes suspect. You can roam around for years in a state of denial. Some people might become atheists because they just don�t want to take a chance that they�ll get it wrong again. Admitting you were wrong is really, really hard. Especially if you�ve defended your cult for years, lost friends, jobs, family members over it, created strife for your children who were marginalized for being �different,� and the list goes on. Being in my cult made me self-righteous. Part of being in a cult is watching out for the kooks in Christianity to justify your cult teachings, even though you have a lot of your own kooks in SRF. You also memorize all the gruesome suffering that�s come in the name of Jesus Christ just so you can �prove� your belief. Christians call it apologetics, cults call it TRUTH. The minute someone says cult people in them tend to shut down, turn off, walk out and disassociate with the conversation. You might stop reading right HERE. That�s because the word CULT immediately brings to mind Charlie Manson and Jones Town, and, well, you�re certainly are not part of something so evil. That�s front page news evil. My way of thinking is that kind of evil isn�t so insidious. It takes out a few people and it�s over. Savvy cults aren�t run by psychotics; they�re run by everyday folks. Nice folks, even. Good looking people with pleasant homes and nice cars. They live next door. They take care of your cat when you�re on vacation and bring you casseroles when you�re sick. They�re your friend, your brother, your mother. They could be just about anyone, and that�s really daunting. A cult is any group that holds you mentally and spiritually hostage. The first sign you�re in a cult is when you�re told quite often you�re not part of a cult. I heard it for years. People in cults are told as part of their training that they�re not in a cult, and they usually have a darn good argument to prove their point. Oh, sure, there are some flimsy arguments, but for the most part, cults work hard to debunk the theory that they are a cult or a sect. You come to believe their reasons and whole hardily. You even believe it when you leave the cult, defending them to the bitter end that you were not in a cult. One doesn�t just walk away from a belief system. When you�re taught something, study, mediate, focus on something for years, it takes root. You might pull the weeds by no longer attending, but the roots are still down in the dirt and it doesn�t take much water to sprout doubts. They all say that they don�t keep their members there by force. Members are chosen, special and come of their own free will. They�ll say they don�t ascribe to mind control or brainwashing, but have techniques of mental control, and there�s, well, a difference. The teachings are always secret and never Biblical. Secrecy is necessary to keep them �pure,� and only those who are unique can receive them. You�re told right away that you�re better than everyone else, superior to all other doctrines, especially Christians, who you come to regard pitifully as low thinking. That�s not to say cults don't teach from the Bible even though their message isn�t Biblical. They often do this to �lure� in the wary and give a good argument when you point out they follow a Guru or Founder. This is when they talk about Jesus, how they love an honor him, maybe have a whole day of meditation on him, and how we�re all able to be a Jesus, and he was really just a Guru, an evolved man with a good story. SRF (all cults) exclaim that they are �higher thinking� for the �new age.� They might call it the �golden age.� They might call it just about anything spectacular to make you believe you are super special. With this �higher thinking,� you�re told how evolved you are, sometimes you�re told that everyone else just came up off all fours but you, my friend, have lived many lives and your reward is just around the corner. It�s trendy, too! You�re part of the in-crowd. You might see your cult on the cover of movie magazines. Red strings, maharishi�s, OM signs or Tom Cruise! Cults love to name drop. Secretly of course because they are supposed to be better than the National Enquirer, but members of cults know who�s in and whose out and there is always a Hollywood A List. My cult had a Beatle and several television stars. I could go on...but you get the picture. SRF is a cult. Spot the Looney Edited by: SayItIsntSo at: 3/2/06 12:57 pm

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