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curious Unregistered User (1/31/02 10:49 am) Reply	Mike Flynn's style Here is an excerpt from a website I found. It shares a phone conversation between Mike Flynn and someone he was threatening over the Deepak Chopra case. It gives one a good idea of Flynn's style- and makes one curious as to how and why this man represents SRF in attempts to defend Yogananda's honor. Would Yogananda hire someone like this to defend his honor? --------------------------------- "Flynn, whose in-your-face tactics a former New York magazine fact-checker described as 'one of the most unpleasant things I've ever endured,' spent nearly 30 highly combative minutes on the phone with me, bandying countercharges, offering a host of defenses, and providing no documentation for either. "I asked Flynn to corroborate his assertions or offer evidence to discredit Judy Bangert 26 times in the course of our interview. Flynn threatened repeatedly to sue for libel. 'If [Chopra] wants me to tell you to go jump in the f--ing lake -- print whatever you want, and then we'll bring a lawsuit to expose the truth,' was one of his gentler admonitions.' --------------------------- From: wpxx02.toxi.uni-wuerzburg...s1_12.html
sally up Unregistered User (1/31/02 2:48 pm) Reply	on Flynn I heard that Flynn is an SRF member and has been for years. Can anyone substantiate this?
member108 Registered User (9/20/02 6:07 am) Reply	Sexual Encounters It should be no surprise that monks and nuns have outside friendships, even sexual partners. These people enter the ashram in hope of finding God and find a very disappointing place instead. They are treated as tools by leaders they can obviously see are not even on the spiritual path. In the ashram they are low life and mistrusted. At the same time they are treated as mini-Gods by members on the outside plus the fact that they are desperate for a little happiness. Things happen. The opportunity is easy to understand as many of the monks at mother center and Encinitas live out of the ashram in small homes. Slipping out is easy and members are willing to dance so there you go. It is sad that the environment there is so corrupt that these people who came to Master to sacrifice their lives are so disillusioned that these things happen. The good thing is that it seems to often result in them eventually leaving. This allows them to continue with their spiritual lives and they of course end up happier as a result. For SRF to sue another organization (I mean help a women sue the other organization) for this same thing is so weird!!!!!!!!!
member108 Registered User (9/20/02 6:14 am) Reply	Sexual Encounters duplicate.......... Edited by: member108 at: 9/20/02 6:15:17 am
Lobo Registered User (9/20/02 6:44 pm) Reply	Re: Sexual Encounters How do you know this stuff?
X Insider Registered User (9/21/02 12:10 pm) Reply	Re: on Flynn How do you think?
member108 Registered User (9/21/02 2:39 pm) Reply	Re: on Flynn He probably thinks we are making this stuff up. The mention of sex makes it seem worse than it is. Not many of the monks or nuns are involved in outside 'friendships', but many do have some form of outside activity. It may be surfing, shopping, biking or something but once you find the monastic life is not what you thought the void will be filled with something. That is just human nature. Giving specifics would embarass too many, including fairly innocent people associated with the situations. Personally, I don't blame any of them. It is strange that they decide the life is a lie but continue to stay and surf. It is not a youth camp although many treat it as such. Well, more like a prison camp really.
X Insider Registered User (9/21/02 4:11 pm) Reply	Re: Sexual Encounters Yes, naming individuals would only hurt them. And those predisposed not to believe that monks have outside "friendships" will never be convinced. You said, member 108, that you wonder why these monastics stay after they have chosen to live outside the rules (and can get away with it). Survival, I should think. Making a life outside takes an almost Herculean effort if you have been raised in the ashram, have given 20 or 30 years there. So sure, some stay. And one only hopes they manage to find a way to get their needs met.
Lobo Registered User (9/21/02 6:32 pm) Reply	Re: on Flynn There may be a minority of monastics that live this lie while passing themselves off as renunciates, I don't have anyway of knowing whether this is true or not. Comparing surfing, shopping etc. to sexual liasons isn't the same. I don't think that they take vows to control their hobbies, but they certainly do with their sexual actions. And its clear that the former is a healthy expression of one's individuality within the ashram, while the latter is simply living a lie. Edited by: Lobo at: 9/21/02 6:43:40 pm
KS Registered User (9/21/02 6:59 pm) Reply	vows I�m not sure most of them are living a lie. The leadership certainly is but the monk or nun still searching for happiness may or may not be. From my experience the majority no longer have stars in their eyes and greatly look forward to movie night or a long bike ride after sneaking out or their weekly runs to a local coffee shop. Sure, some get more involved with outsiders than others, but so does the general membership. Yes, they took vows. Once they realize the vows were created to control them they certainly lose some of their binding authority. Certainly a sexual encounter is more drastic than sneaking out to ride a bike but the root cause is the same in both situations. They find the internal life is not what they expected. Read the Holy Science. It explains how life works. I don�t judge them too harshly myself as usually they are harming no one other than themselves. Of course they continue to support the organization the bad ladies have created, which harms their Guru�s work, but that is another topic. These people are in a bad situation and it will take a great deal of courage to dig themselves out of the ashram to normal productive lives. Most are too weak to do it.
Lobo Registered User (9/22/02 8:07 pm) Reply	Re: vows What I was reacting to was the assertion that sexual liasons were rampant within the monastery. When questioned it appears from the answer that it is a decided minority who MAY be engaging in sexual relationships. It isn't for me to judge them, except to say that they are putting themselves out to the members to be strictly celibate, and it is not healthy for either the membership or the sexual monk/nun, to interact under this illusion. The membership already worships these guys, and to find out that sex was an accepted diversion for them, even covered up by the higher-ups would be devastating for all involved. I can't believe that the senior monks, those who've been there for 50 years or so would need this type of diversion. Some of the intermediate monks, that is a different issue. But as you say it isn't right to condemn them for in the final analysis they and we are all followers of Yogananda wherever we live and whatever lifestyle we personally follow. It might just be psychologically more healthy for these monks/nuns to leave the ashram. At the least it would allow them to be upfront to themselves and eliminate what must bring guilt, or at least the fear of being found out. In other words, if they are householders in their hearts they should bring their lives in harmony with their feelings. For their own sake, and peace of mind. I am sorry that I judged them so. It must be a very difficult thing to attempt to control the second deepest need/urge in us all. It's even hard for householders, God, to be in the ashram it must be quite an ordeal that they face each and every day. One senior monk told us in a satsang that he fought for 8 years to even start to bring this sexual urge under control. Then he told us Yogananda said not until nirbikalpa samadhi would one be free from sexual desire!
KS Registered User (9/22/02 10:24 pm) Reply	Re: vows Lobo, How many 50 year monastics do you thing there are? Darn few is the answer. Is it three on the men�s side? You might be surprised at the answer for 30 years, even 10 years. The turn over is quite high when you look at 10 to 20 years out. Well past 100% as so many leave fairly quickly. Of all the monks here in 1950 only two are still here. Of all of them here in 1960 only three are still here. Someone should check my math but I suspect about 300 men have entered the ashram since 1980 and there are about 70 or 80 now? I don�t know what you call a cover up but these things have certainly gone on and I have never seen it in the VL Appeal. Of course I would not expect that. I am sure the senior monks don�t approve. They tell monastics to stay away from the public and sign things that they won�t talk about life inside, so that might be considered a cover up? Of course it is healthier for them to leave. It would be better for them all if they left. Living the lie slowly eats away at them. Even the senior monks are suffering.
Lobo Registered User (9/23/02 9:31 pm) Reply	Re: vows KS, Bhaktananda, Dharmananda, Achalanda, Jivananda, Anandamoy, Bhavananda are the ones that've been there 50 or more years and who spring to mind at the present. 30+ year= Ramananda, Satyananda, Mitrananda, Paramananda, Santoshananda, Shantananda, Brahmananda, those are the ones that i can think of now. Plus there are bunch of "new" 15 or so year monks that've recently (within the last few years) taken sannyas vows and who are the current ministers at some of temples. I don't know there spiritual names, can't recall at present, but there are about 10 or so. Well I think the term "cover-up" is well understood as to its meaning. I used that term because the post that I was referencing implied that sexual affairs were endemic in the ashram and were known to the Board, or at least the leaders, and was tolerated due to the importance of these renunciates in the organization. That's a cover-up; pretending to lead one sort of life for public consumption whilst secretly enjoying things that are, how do we say, "not in one's job description." That SRF would condone such behavior I found disturbing, if true. That's why I questioned the assertion and was relieved to find out that a small percentage might indulge in this behavior BEHIND the backs of the leaders. That's not a cover up.
member108 Registered User (9/24/02 5:16 pm) Reply	Re: vows I really think the correct answer is that Bhakta and Bima have been here over 50 years. Ananda may make it by a few months, but no more. Dharma, Acha and Vava came in the 60's as I think Jiva did. Parama came just around 1970 but the rest of your 30+ crew I thought came in the 70s. Anyway, darn few of them. The turn over is pretty high. I lost track of them all but the stats are here on the Walrus somewhere. Lost 30 or so last year alone. That would have been 15 to 20% turn over in a year. That seems high to me.
Lobo Registered User (9/24/02 6:34 pm) Reply	Re: vows Dharmananda and Achlananda both entered the monastery in the mid 1950's, at least that's what they've told me. They were encouraged to enter by Dr. Lewis and did shortly thereafter. They can even be seen in the photograph in the memoriam booklet SRF publishes sitting with Dr., along with Turiyananda and some others. As it's the middle of the year 2002, by my estimation that's almost 50 years, I just rounded it off. I understand the point that many monks (and apparently nuns, as well) have come and gone in the last 50 or so years. But at least a few have stayed, as I'm not familiar with the nuns beyond the usual Daya, Mrinalini, Uma, Ananda, and the rest, I didn't list them. What's interesting, as well, is the number of devoted householders that've come and gone. Some to come back in varying degrees of intensity; like myself occasionally attending services and meditations, not donating money, just a peripheral member I guess you'd say. I see some of the members I knew from the late 60's and 70's long gone, but some are still there going strong, while still other's like myself are peripheral, too.
True Enuf Registered User (3/15/06 12:14 pm) Reply	Re: on Flynn Here's a video of Flynn in a hearing on Scientology harassment- video isn't good but the audio's fine video.google.com/videopla...1169771721
Paramadas Registered User (3/16/06 1:02 pm) Reply	Flynn's house destroying the back 40 at HV Someone (I'm told it's Michael Flynn) is building a house out in the back 40 of Hidden Valley, destroying the peace that residents are accustomed to when they walk out there and of course destroying the natural setting entirely. The word I got from a monk (whose name I can't recall right now) is that Flynn asked for permission to bring his bulldozers etc. through SRF property, and they said OK. Oh, the humanity. The back 40 was the one place that residents and monks could go to get away from the madness of modern life. It really was pretty wild back there, and now it will be just another !@#$% extension of suburbia. Curse your insensitivity, Mike Flynn. "In wildness is the preservation of the world." Henry David Thoreau
SayItIsntSo Registered User (3/18/06 3:06 pm) Reply ezSupporter	Re: Flynn's house destroying the back 40 at HV I wonder if Lobo is still peripheral or if he got out for good? Spot the Looney

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