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etzchaim
Registered User
(12/3/03 7:26 am)
Reply 		religion as framework
Serenity, you wrote:

"It's ironically the Christian parts of SRF that feel odd to me! In a way I envy people who were raised in childhood in a religion that does work for them...maybe a deeper connection possible there? "

I was raised a Catholic and converted to Judaism. I appreciate Yogananda's efforts to interpret Christianity through the lense of Yoga, and find his Christianity makes more sense to me than traditional Christianity, but when I was needing to "come back to my roots" and did a study of the three monotheistic religions, the more I searched through early Christianity, the more I kept getting the feeling that it was missinterpreted Judaism. At this point, I also think that much of todays (as well as Talmudic) Judaism is also a missinterpretation of Judaism, which is why I am working with a group of people who are trying to reformulate it along different, non-tribal and mystical/phychological lines.

It took me a very long time, with many ups and downs, blind alleys and false sunrises to find my path, but at this point, despite having to heal from an enormous amount of stress from an Orthodox conversion, and the stress of realizing that I had managed to fall into a Fundamentalist form with cult-like patterns, I'm very happy and relieved to finally be getting somewhere! The best thing is that my Guru kept pushing me to do Kabbalah and 'find the Yoga of Kabbalah', as he put it, despite the distaste that the Orthodoxy has put into my mouth. I'm lucky in that way...at least.

Edited by: etzchaim at: 12/3/03 7:32 am
parabastha
Registered User
(12/3/03 8:21 am)
Reply 		Re: so disappointed and many doubts

Quote: "Laurie Pratt, unmarried had her child Mona a very few months later."


The Edgar Cayce website (www.are-cayce.org/readings/) contains all the psychic readings Cayce gave. Each person is identified only by a number in the readings. We are able to identify Laurie Pratt, her husband and daughter, since in Laurie’s case, she frequently mentioned astrology charts, her adds and articles in the East-West magazine, her conexion with Swami Yogananda (“my Teacher”) in her letters, and was recommended by the Cayce people for astrology readings. That is why it is possible to identify her as #778.

1) Readings for Laurie Pratt #778, born August 16, 1900, 6:25 A.M. San Francisco, California

www.are-cayce.org/readings/0778/

2) Readings for her husband #1932, born March 22, 1903, at 7:15 P. M., in Brooklyn, N.Y.

www.are-cayce.org/readings/1932/

3) Readings for their(?) daughter born JUNE 28, 1930 at 8:35 P. M. (C.S.T.) in Atlanta, GA.

www.are-cayce.org/readings/0398/

Some excerpts:

1. 8/22/33 Background letter for reading [398-2] from mother, a professional astrologist: "I am putting this on a separate sheet, so that you can burn it when you are thru reading it. First I thought I wouldn't bother you about it; then I thought I ought to see what hope there is. This is the situation: My daughter [398]'s chart does not promise a long life. There is even some danger of death in early childhood. SHE WAS THREE ON JUNE 28TH OF THIS YEAR. She is under especially ominous aspects next month, September. Would you be so kind as to have a reading on her, with the object of finding out whether I may hope that she will live to adulthood or not? Naturally the thought weighs on my mind; I think the uncertainty is worse than anything. I cannot think of anyone, in mortal form at least, who could help me but you. I really would rather know the worst, if worst there be. On the other hand, I may be entirely mistaken."

10/28/42 "I am very happy in my (editorial) work here and keep constantly busy. My little girl [398] is TWELVE YEARS OLD NOW and a great joy to me. These are difficult days, but no doubt each generation has its own problems. One tries to see the divine plan through it all."

If Mauna Pratt was born on June 28, 1930 then that would imply that she was conceived on September of 1929. I believe that Laurie gave the exact birthtime and birthplace of Mauna to Cayce, since otherwise the astrological analysis would be inapplicable. No astrologer asking for advice would give false information. So whatever it was that Dhirananada was distressed to see upon arriving in New York, it was not until 5 months after this that Mauna was even conceived. Yogananda left for his trip to Mexico in May 23rd, 1929, and gave a talk in Guadalajara on August 15, 1929. I don’t know the exact date of his arrival back in the U.S. but he was in Cleveland, on September 8th; in Buffalo, on September 10th and October 20th. He spent a few summer vacations days at the end of September with Mr. J. W. Mott and Mr. Alvin Hunsicker, in Pike County, Pennsylvania. He also paid a little visit in late September to the summer home in the Catskills of Madame Amelita Galli-Curci and Homer Samuels. While there, Madame Galli-Curci wrote the foreword to his new book, "Whispers From Eternity", which would be published before Christmas. He was in Detriot, Michigan in October, 1929, and back at Mt. Washington on November, 10th, 1929. See East-West, November-December, 1929, or visit
www.geocities.com/Athens/...stVol4.htm

I also have the “Self-Realization Magazine”, October-December 1964. On page 5 there is a photo of Paramahansa Yogananda at a table, between Rajasi and Daya. In the foreground is Mauna Pratt herself. We can see her full face, eyes, etc. Bellow the photo is written:

“Paramahansa Yogananda, founder and first president of Self-Realization Fellowship, is seated between two future SRF presidents¨Rajasi Janakananda [NOTE THE SPELLING OF RAJASI] (right) and Daya Mata. In foreground: William Ewing and Mauna Pratt, EIGHT-YEAR-OLD hermitage resident. The group is part of a large gathering at a birthday dinner for Yoganandaji, Jan. 5, 1939, SRF Hermitage, Encinitas.”

I could post the photo here, but don’t know how to do it.

So there we have it. Laurie Pratt lived in Atlanta, GA, as a housewife, mother, writer, astrologer, etc, while her husband studied law. She divorced her husband sometime after November 1935.


Edited by: parabastha at: 12/3/03 8:44 am
soulcircle
Registered User
(12/3/03 9:33 am)
Reply 		Tara Mata had a child?
Oh Yes SRF tells us that

Oh Yes

ranger20
Registered User
(12/3/03 9:47 am)
Reply 		Re: so disappointed and many doubts
SN7 writes:
Quote:
About the posts way back about the needing a framework of religion for mystical experiences in meditation, now I understand. Yes, I had experiences which convinced me of a world beyond the obvious and of God's existence, and had I been in a religion I would have put a certain meaning on it. Still, in a way not-intererpreting has its advantage for me as well.
I don't think one can simply choose non-interpretation - look how hard the Zen practitioners have to work to get to that state. I just think our culture's framework for interpreting non-ordinary experiences is very unfortunate: "that's just your imagination," or "that's just cooincidence."

Our minds like patterns. I've known artists who were interested in "randomness," and had to resort to mechanical means to achieve it, since their own intervention always had some kind of order to it. One even tried leaving some things out all winter to rust - only to realize that the observer's mind will see patterns in the rust, just like in clouds.

As an alternative to the materialistic interpretations of current consensus-reality, we have the current situation in SRF, where people who have been paying attention for a while have doubts, and are trying to discern what, within all of "the teachings" can you count on.

By contrast, the old traditions are like the stone floors of some of the big cathedrals of Europe - the rough edges are worn off, and when and if their framework and my experience can mesh comfortably, then there is a focus for my raw experience - I'm using the word "focus" and thinking of a magnifying glass focusing the diffused sunlight to produce fire.

Yet there was a time, not long ago, and while in SRF, that I felt such antipithy toward Christianity, that I refused my father's request to attend an Easter sunrise service with him because the prospect filled me with distaste.

For me, one of the various signs that a spiritual experience, or tendency is "genuine," is if it surprises me.

dawnrays
Registered User
(12/3/03 9:51 am)
Reply 		Re: Tara Mata had a child?
Soul Circle,

It seems to me for some one so devoted to "the truth" you can become offally irritable when the facts don't support your agenda.

It's getting harder for me to believe you don't have one.

"Tara Mata had a child?" Please, you have brought this up countless times, hoping against hope I suppose, for another srf "scandal" to keep you entertained in your old age I suppose.

If your "gracious wife" just doesn't do it for you anymore, I would suggest that you check out the "Enquiror". I for one am not ashamed to admit I read it, and it beats the heck out of srf for that kind of thing (the people are alot better looking too!)

soulcircle
Registered User
(12/3/03 10:05 am)
Reply 		what more can I ask
she is serving a World Avatar

or as Sister Faye says, one for the ages, incomparable

dawnrays
Registered User
(12/3/03 10:39 am)
Reply 		Re: Jealous?
I thought so.

Maybe this is something you had better hash out with her (your wife).

etzchaim
Registered User
(12/3/03 11:52 am)
Reply 		Re: so disappointed and many doubts
"Yet there was a time, not long ago, and while in SRF, that I felt such antipithy toward Christianity, that I refused my father's request to attend an Easter sunrise service with him because the prospect filled me with distaste."

and

"For me, one of the various signs that a spiritual experience, or tendency is "genuine," is if it surprises me."

So true... I walked around for nearly two months alternating between my excitement at having uncovered Judaism and thinking "why the hell do I want to be a Jew?" Judaism was the last thing I'd thought I'd relate to - law oriented, patriarchal, clanish...it floored me when I found myself actually understanding my current life more through it.

I've found that the languages, both symbolic and actual meshed with my experiences more than using Sanskrit and the Hindu symbols.

Though I stopped practicing Kriya during the time I was Orthodox, I would not do so now. I truly think that it works better for me in a Jewish context than it did in the Hindu/Vedanta context I'd learned it in.

It's like a personal puzzle clicking into place.

SerenityNow7
Registered User
(12/3/03 2:30 pm)
Reply 		Re: so disappointed and many doubts
Hello all, this place is rather addicting. I have to say I quite enjoy all of your company. Fascinating discussions.

Quote:
For me, one of the various signs that a spiritual experience, or tendency is "genuine," is if it surprises me.


Ranger20, I agree as well. Actually this applies for me to what I said earlier. The most profound spiritual experience I've had was quite unexpected and did not occur in meditation either. I can't discuss it as it is sacred to me, but I will say that I did interpret it as related to God. Now, maybe this is because of the general cultural training I had already to put that context on it. If I had been a staunch atheist, maybe I would have insisted on some other explanation like hallucinogens slipped into my lunch by disgruntled cafeteria workers? Maybe if I had been an SRF devotee I would have believed it was Yogananda trying to contact me. Still the sense of knowing that I had is hard to imagine being different no matter what religion I subscribed to at the time. Who knows????

chuckle chela
Registered User
(12/4/03 12:05 am)
Reply 		Re: so disappointed and many doubts
I think Borg raises a valid point. I'm still not persauded by those who claim PY was a terribly deluded person or an outright fraud, and that's simply because I haven't seen enough concrete evidence; all I've seen is more or less heresay (with the exception of the Dhirananda lawsuit). But I suppose one can argue the same for supporting Yogananda: all we have are all the stories (I am leaving aside any inner validation one may have--one way or the other--regarding Yogananda, since that is personal, although it may well be the most important factor).

Let me add that I'm willing to be persuaded in any direction if I'm offered convincing evidence. For example, regarding the authorship of the AY. If PY wrote it (more or less, aside from minor editorial alterations), there should be sheets with his longhand (I'm sure SRF would have preserved stuff like that. And, judging from the brief excepts published in SRF's version of the original "Whispers," there are samples of his poems and Whispers in longhand, as well). If there indeed was a San Diego authoress who gave it a major re-write, hopefully there would be some evidence of this (but, my goodness, can you imagine how much money that ghost writer would have made if she had had a contract for some share of the royalties?!).

For nagchampa2: I must admit I was intrigued by the details you put in your poem:

Then one day i found
Someone who knew you well
And who would speak the truth.
Someone i knew i could trust
With all my heart and soul.

It was a day of liberation
One filled with quietude;
With white Christmas tree lights
Dangling on your garden gate.

A lone frog croaked nearby
Breaking the very silence
In that day of poinsettias
And potted plants
Along your garden path.

What was it about this individual who spoke with you recently that so overwhelmingly convinced you that he/she was trustworthy and was conveying the truth to you about Yogananda? Obviously this individual had a profound effect upon you if in one meeting he or she could convince you to change your mind about Yogananda (I presume the conversation took place at Mt. Washington or in the Encinitas retreat gardens from the images in the poem, but perhaps these, along with the image of one meeting, are more metaphorical). Do you know of others who have spoken with and been similarly convinced by this individual? And in one lighthearted attempt at humor, let me suggest that you must have a wicked arm if you got that pendant to fly into the ocean, throwing it from where you stood (or else it must have been one truly wicked "surf's UP!" kinda day at Swami's).

Also, I would be fascinated if you (or anyone else) could dig up some additional evidence that you alluded to. For example, passages of Vivekananda's that bear some striking similarity to PY's writings. The disciples' diary passages that suggest hypnosis. Evidence of PY taking people's money. I'm also intrigued why you refuse to divulge some of the information you have. Of course, we want to protect identities here, but aside from that, I can't see why anything can't be discussed, if one is able to back up claims with evidence. I agree with you that charlatans should be exposed.

I see no reason why these things shouldn't be discussed; we are, after all, calm, reasonable adults who want to seek and live the truth,who want to help each other, aren't we? So, nagchampa, I don't think you need to worry. Perhaps you aren't aware, but most of the allegations you've brought forward have been discussed in the Walrus before. For example, Mauna Pratt's birth and parentage was discussed almost ad nauseum about a year and-a-half-ago.

Again, I have yet to see or hear of any compelling evidence supporting all these allegations against Yogananda. I realize, Nagchampa, that you are going through a trying time and may not have time or inclination to reply, and I don't mean to single you out. My sympathies are with you in the loss of your mother and the family dog.

nagchampa2
Registered User
(12/4/03 5:39 am)
Reply 		Re: so disappointed and many doubts
(This message was left blank)

Edited by: nagchampa2 at: 12/23/03 8:02 am
dawnrays
Registered User
(12/4/03 7:20 am)
Reply 		Yogananda's not for everybody
I don't think Master is for everybody. Reading your posts, it seems to me you probably would not have liked him in person, or else would have left him later on (as so many did).

Leaving all the unsettled stuff like the writings aside for a moment, often times these things aren't so much doubts as personality clashes and issues. How many people do you know whom you actually get along with, let alone look up to and admire?

To each his own and that's why there is a line of 6 gurus. Really five if you count Babaji and Krishna as one and the same. Have you ever tried focusing on Lahiri or Sri Yukteswarji instead of Master? I have and the vibe is very different. Lahiri is very fatherly, for example.

The whole point of the spiritual path is to develop your inner life. These are also facts and especially if they change your life. I don't see why one's inner life is less valid than trying to dissect a person's motives and attempting to uncover and expose personal details about thier life, 50 years after thier passing.

For me, the fact that you are able to be so easily swayed by outer circumstances, shows me that you don't have much of one to fall back on. The world sucks sometimes and in order not to become part of the problem, we develop an inner life. That's where the judgement should be if there is one. There is no reason to believe that Master's life didn't suck sometimes and that he didn't have personality clashes with people, that's life.

I also think that you have an ax to grind with srf and are trying to validate your negative feelings by trying to create a villian because you don't wish to take responsiblity for your own actions.

This is very imature and no brand spanking new "true guru" or spiritual path is going to help, in my opinion.

X Insider
Registered User
(12/4/03 8:20 am)
Reply 		Re: This latest round of posts
I must admit this is kind of fun to read.

Dawnrays is now sounding like she was trained by an SRF nun/cultist, Soulcircle is finding bliss anew with another Indian guru, and Nagchampa is feeling guilty for nothing in true SRF-style.

Chuckechela is being her diplomatic best. I am too jaded for diplomacy and what I want to know is details from Nagchampa. Seems chuckles wants the same.

So, Nagji, how does one go about hearing Nerode's story? Does your moral credo allow you to reveal this?

I have a feeling the "source" you mentioned regarding Yogagnanda will be forever a mystery -- for some reason I don't quite understand. The deep throat of Walrus. I say turn the lights on, let the cat out of the bag, etc. And ultimately I cannot believer you, Nagji, if you keep secrets. I had enough secrets with SRF to last 3 lifetimes and have no doubt that all their secrets cover a world of lies.

Your secrets may serve the same purpose.


rachelcorrie
Registered User
(12/4/03 8:37 am)
Reply 		as I read soulcircle, he has no guru
describing Amma as a friend, and willing to raise his voice interrupting her satsanga

Borg108
Registered User
(12/4/03 8:53 am)
Reply 		Re: Yogananda's not for everybody
nagchampa2 writes:

"i had no desire to bring up tara mata; i was only referring to dhirananda writing much of the work. i should have edited out the bit about tara."

You also mentioned that the the Tara Mata/Laurie Pratt bit was not your writing but came from your trusted source, Since parabastha has shown in this thread that your source was absolutely wrong in his inferences about Tara Ma, don't you think this might cast some doubt on the credibility of your source's other statements?

"read vivekananda's works and see for yourself. when i first began reading his works, i would realize that it as the same thing that yogananda had said. i finally quit reading his books because i was too upset by it all. and so i just told myself, maybe it is okay to quote from another person and not give that person credit. and maybe it is. i don't know. "

The only things I've read by Vivekananda that were similar to what Yogananda wrote were some traditional Indian stories such as appear in the lessons. I'm sure neither of them originated these stories. But let's say you are correct and there are other cases where the writings seem to be the same. Do you think Vivekananda would care? They both came here to lead others to God, not for personal credit and recognition. I think you applying narrow, limited and selfish human criteria to the actions of saints. They were both well beyond that.

I believe you are doing the same thing by being critical of the display of powers and the performance of miracles by saints. If you or I were doing these things, they would be evidence of an egotistic desire to show off. But saints don't operate this way. They might demonstrate divine powers out of compassion for others or with divine sanctioning in order to increase the faith and devotion of their followers, thus speeding up their evolution. Christ, Krishna, Ramana Maharishi, Ananda Mayi Ma, St Francis, nearly all the saints in the AY, in fact, most saints in general have from time to time demonstrated their powers in what we would call miracles. Do you really think they all fakes interested only in ego gratification? Even your Vivekananda, according to Mr Dickinson in the AY, saved his life when he was drowning, read his thoughts and foretold his future. Was he a fake too?

It's good you can let go of your doubts and guilt and move on to where your heart now takes you. I know you've tried hard to uncover negative things about Yogananda that you could believe in order to help you move on. If one looks hard and long enough he can always find dirt about a public figure, whether true or untrue. I just hope you won't find the need anymore to publish unfounded and unsubstantiated accusations about Yogananda. These may have helped you put your past behind you, but they do not help others who are still loyal to Yogananda and who still benefit from his teachings.

Edited by: Borg108 at: 12/4/03 9:10 am
nagchampa2
Registered User
(12/4/03 8:56 am)
Reply 		Re: This latest round of posts
(This message was left blank)

Edited by: nagchampa2 at: 12/23/03 8:03 am
dawnrays
Registered User
(12/4/03 9:17 am)
Reply 		Re: srf and the Navy
I'm sorry X-insider if I sound like a "cultist" to you.

I don't know what you would have been doing with your life had you not been in srf, discovering the cure for cancer I suppose?

They are not wrong about everything and the same character flaws (mainly gullibility and ego issues) which motivated you or allowed you to become such an "insider" are probably not all gone.

I never was an insider particularly, so I am not as bitter as some. Believe me, I have been a Navy wife for 15 years and it's alot more of a "cult" and a lot more dense and dysfunctional than srf could ever hope to be in it's wildest dreams. Bitching is just an accepted part of the subculture. I never met an enlisted guy or a wife that would actually admit to liking the Navy, yet officers and their families are usually happy, satisfied and motivated in comparison.

You didn't escape from cults just because you left the ashram. There is still one going on in your head if you blame all of your problems on srf.

nagchampa2
Registered User
(12/4/03 9:19 am)
Reply 		Re: This latest round of posts
False Gurus and Siddhis
(Occult or Supernatural Powers)

The Universe is full of false preceptors. Overly clever, they surround themselves with selfish pleasures and bestow their ‘grandiose’ teachings upon the unwary. Prematurely publicizing themselves, intent upon reaching some spiritual climax, they constantly sacrifice the Truth and deviate from the real spiritual path. What they really offer the Universe is their own confusion.
In the Universe as at present there are plenty of people masquerading as Gurus, due to sheer ignorance or in a deliberate attempt to deceive the gullible. Hence it is essential for the aspirant to be very sure of the person, before he accepts and accolades him as his Guru. There are some who profess to be Gurus, and are ardent worshippers of some deity or other. These people may even get or cause to get their deities of choice to manifest and thereby exhibit siddhis -occult powers, such as levitation, walking on water, seating on ice for hours, being immune to pain, appearing certain objects, walking on fire, becoming invisible, etc.
A Guru can be endowed with countless siddhis. Possession of siddhis, however, is not the test to declare the greatness of a sage or to prove that he has attained Self-realization. A real Guru does not exhibit any miracle or siddhi.
Sri Krishna is believed to be the most exalted in the knowledge of spiritual liberation. He never tried to develop any kind of siddhis. He merely ate and drank like a normal human. Yet he was a far greater Guru than that all past great spiritual preceptors.
Buddha severely criticized some practices that lead to the attainment of siddhis because he said that this could severely interfere with our spiritual growth.
In the Kevatta Sutta -Buddhist philosophical scripture- Buddha said that there are three types of occult powers:
1. The miracle of psychic power.- Walking on water without sinking, vanishing, going unimpeded through walls or ramparts as if through space, levitating, etc.
2. The miracle of telepathy.- There is the case where a person reads the minds, the mental events, the thoughts, the ponderings of other beings.
3. The miracle of instruction.- This is the ability of a person to instruct and to lead people in the correct path towards mukti -spiritual liberation.
Buddha said: "Seeing the drawback to the miracles of psychic power and telepathy, I feel horrified, humiliated, and disgusted with the miracles of psychic power and telepathy. The only miracle that a person should practice is the miracle of instruction."
The great sage Ramakrishna Paramahamsa declared that siddhis were an obstacle in the attainment of spiritual liberation. Though better off than the common ignorant, these people cannot be accepted as Gurus. Some false Gurus exhibit occult powers, performing miracles to attract the people that are near them. This has become an universal problem nowadays. The attainment and practice of occult powers -siddhis- goes in contradiction with the Yugadharma -Spiritual Law of this age.

nagchampa2
Registered User
(12/4/03 9:27 am)
Reply 		Gurus, continued from various web sites
Therefore, it becomes imperative on our part to understand and consider basic qualifications of a spiritual teacher. Mundaka and Brihadaranyaka Upanishads have eulogized the following four qualifications of a true Guru:

1. The Guru should be shrotriya, i.e. well versed in scriptures. If he is to teach religion, he must have a proper grasp of the subject as expounded in genuine ancient texts and books. This does not mean mere book knowledge, but the Guru must have imbibed the Truths of the scriptures in his daily life. His actions, speech, and thoughts must express these truths in his day-to-day behaviour. Without uttering a single word he should convey the spirituals truths all around him. The Guru must be able to handle all the types of minds, which may come to him, which is why he has to keep up the scriptural tradition and continue his study and sadhana throughout the life.

Moreover, the Guru should not be cut off from the traditions of the land. For instance, a Vedanta Teacher should be able to highlight Christian or Jewish aspirations in his western disciples by properly relating the Hindu scriptural truths to their faith. This does not mean that the Guru has to lower or modify his ideal, but simply that he has to emphasis the universal truth without hurting religious feelings of various aspirants.

2. The second qualification of the Guru is more important than the first, and that is: The Guru must be a Brahma-Jnani. He must be a realized soul, which means he must be established in Brahman, ever living in God. If he is ignorant how can he guide the aspirants beyond ignorance! How can a blind man lead another blind to the goal? Chances are both would fall in a ditch. This separates the Vedanta Guru from teachers of secular sciences where instructor has no particular need of virtue or good character. The subject taught here is pure, blissful God and hence the Guru must be pure and god-drenched.

Anyone and everyone can't be a Guru. A huge load of solid timber floats on the water and can carry men and animals across the bank, even in rising waters. But a piece of worthless ordinary wood sinks as soon as one steps on it and drowns the person. Therefore, in every age God incarnates Himself as the Guru, to teach humanity. Satchidananda alone is the Guru.

3. The third qualification of the Guru is that he should be 'akamahata', not smitten by desires selfishness. His character must be spotless and clean. He should have such virtues as compassion, love, generosity, and altruism. He sees divinity all around and also is capable of understanding its variable manifestation in his various disciples. Therefore, he does not hate or look down upon any sadhaka for he knows that in many aspirants divinity is covered with dirt of ignorance. In every case he guides the disciples to the same goal of Self Realization.

A Guru looks into the nature of the people before making them his disciples. All men look alike but have different natures. Some have an excess of sattva, others excess of rajas, and still others an excess of tamas. Accordingly, Guru gives differing instructions for spiritual aspirants. Therefore, faith in Guru's words and instructions is the most vital part in the progress on the spiritual path; howsoever, odd or contradictory his instructions may appear!

4. The fourth qualification is linked with the third. The Guru should be avrijina, stainless pure. He should be simple and guileless. He should have totally overcome lust for flesh and gold.

The Guru should be truthful. Under no condition should he deviate from righteous path. This purity comes through constant discrimination between real and unreal and giving up the unreal. Thus, the Guru should be well established in the highest Truth that God alone is Real rest all is transitory. Therefore, the Guru renounces all worldly pleasures and cavings of the sense. Privilege and prestige, name and fame should not affect the character of the Guru in the least. He should be easily accessible and approachable to his all the minor and major disciples.

dawnrays
Registered User
(12/4/03 9:28 am)
Reply 		Sounds like Jesus Christ is in Trouble!
Sounds like Jesus Christ is in trouble!

You really sound like a Pharisee, Nag Champa.

Let's see, when they failed to find any real dirt on him they also "nailed him" for claiming to be God and performing miracles.

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