so disappointed and many doubts

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SRF Walrus > Dealing with my doubts > so disappointed and many doubts
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bsjones Registered User (12/2/03 12:47 pm) Reply ezSupporter	Re: so disappointed and many doubts I am intrigued by nagchampa2's statement that the AoY was rewritten by a skilled fiction author. I have always found it to be extremely enjoyable reading. Whoever did it, did a good job IMO.
soulcircle Registered User (12/2/03 1:00 pm) Reply	reality does anyone care to dispute the fact that Swami Dhirananda's name appears embedded in the hardbound cover of the Science of Religion below Yogananda's? that I am holding the 1928 edition with these two authors so recognized in my hand? Borg108? ~~~~ Dhirananda lived as family in Yogananda's home as a youth. Yogananda talks of "founding Ranchi," and "having a boy's school." Whoever heard Dhirananda mentioned in connection with it? When did you hear Dhirananda mentioned in connection with it Borg108? Also in this 1928 edition of The Science of Religion Dhirananda's education is given as M. A. Yogananda's as B.A. How many SRF 30 year devotees would you or I need to ask, Borg108, before one would say yes they knew that a more highly educated teacher who had lived as family with PY taught at Ranchi, came to America, was recognized as one of two authors of The Science of Religion, ran 3880 San Rafael in its earliest years? How many of the SRFers that did know anything of Dhirananda would realize they owe this to Priscilla Walker? How many 30 year SRFers know that the couple who ran 3880 San Rafael after Dhirananda were Sri Nerode and his wife? That Sri Nerode had been with Gandhi and came to U.S. in 1919? That he travelled the country and began centers? How many SRF people in their early years as students and kriyabans come across these things? ten simple question to be answered then the conversation might be continued with some common ground reality Edited by: soulcircle at: 12/2/03 1:02 pm
soulcircle Registered User (12/2/03 1:13 pm) Reply	encephalomyelitis Guests, Borg108 and All, the man Borg108 quickly chastises with the following words among others *Quote:* is considered unthinkable and the height of disrespect the former Swami Dhirananda, went on in Michigan to lay the ground work for the development of the encephalomyelitis test encephalomyelitis is the inflamation the brain and spinal cord and in case I am not the only one ready for a little humor right now: Knock Knock who's there Butch, Jimmie and Joe Butch, Jimmie and Joe who "Butch" your arms around me "Jimmie" a kiss and let's "Joe" places LOL circle Edited by: soulcircle at: 12/2/03 1:14 pm
ranger20 Registered User (12/2/03 1:23 pm) Reply	Re: so disappointed and many doubts *Quote:* I found myself wanting more of a foundation, a home, you might say. It's fine to say that all religions are one, and that they express the same thing in different languages, but I needed an expression of who I was within all of that, so I could center myself around something. Maybe it was an identity of some kind, or a specific language to put all the pre-verbal/'raw mystical' experiences into. I also knew that I needed something that was 'western', something that spoke to this lifetime and the needs the current vehicle I have - sorry if that sounds out there. It doesn't sound "out there," it sounds like an articulate description of my own experience as well. I wound a circuitous path, before finding the roots of my identity in Christianity. I am grateful to the teachings of Yogananda for making Christianity possible, because what I heard in church as a child and teenager had no life in it for me. "return to the place where we started and know it for the first time." Edited by: ranger20 at: 12/2/03 1:25 pm
nagchampa2 Registered User (12/2/03 1:34 pm) Reply	Re: so disappointed and many doubts (This message was left blank) Edited by: nagchampa2 at: 12/23/03 7:59 am
dawnrays Registered User (12/2/03 1:37 pm) Reply	Not out there at all... Yea, it's certainly not weird at all. Believe it or not (and this may sound even weirder) I'm getting back to my wicca roots. Almost 20 years after I hastily threw away my tarot cards and my grimoire, I went back and bought some more. It's a long journery back home. Have the courage to be who you are! (I'm keeping the kriya though).
ugizralrite Registered User (12/2/03 1:50 pm) Reply	Re: reality This thirty year guy never heard any of it until the last year or two. And bsjones, I too would be very interested if their was a ghostwriter with a fiction background involved in AOY. I always figured Tara Mata polished the AOY with all that sophisticated vocabulary, footnotes, and mastery of the english language. She was creditied by SRF for this I recall. Whatever. Maybe this walrus board is just for us bored old hippies who have read everything else and glad to be entertained spiritually speaking. One more thing, is walrus archived somewhere off the ezboard servers. It should be, and I would be glad to help with that in any way I can.
dawnrays Registered User (12/2/03 1:51 pm) Reply	Re: so disappointed and many doubts I am finding it very strange that you are attempting to nail Master based on a 1939 newspaper article. Why not ask the KKK and the First Baptist Church on the corner what their opinions are of him too? Should not any and all be included in your survey? The teachings refer to the self as God as in self realization fellowship. This kind of ignorant and prejudiced behavior towards a hindu based belief as bad enough, but your posting it to support your own warped and bitter attitude is really the limit. I won't even comment on your childish belief that Master should have been able to give us all realization by the mere "touch of his hand". Better luck next time. Please do spare us also, from your further postings of "the truth" as you know it (you promised to leave, remember????) Say hi! to your friend you trust with all your heart (you ARE having his phone tapped, aren't you?)
nagchampa2 Registered User (12/2/03 4:04 pm) Reply	/ (This message was left blank) Edited by: nagchampa2 at: 12/23/03 8:00 am
soulcircle Registered User (12/2/03 4:22 pm) Reply	ah Bard of this Board hip hop and may your poem never stop endlessly the soul circles around posts expressing inner self's languages and dances and toasts the wondrous poet dancing with you and toasting you from redwoods and ocean surf and all the interior states 'tween the Atlantic and Pacific coasts
Borg108 Registered User (12/2/03 4:37 pm) Reply	Re: so disappointed and many doubts Etz writes: �On the other hand, it disturbs me that it took a ruling in court in Dhirananda's favor for Yogananda to give him severence payment. Seems to be an ego issue.� I think Yogananda was trying to save Dhirananda from acquiring bad karma by taking the money. A saint still has love for those who consider themselves his enemy. If they both came here to spread spiritual truth and help uplift others, then Dhirananda demands payment for himself that takes away resources from that work (yes, $8000 was a lot of money back then)� well, I wouldn�t want to have his karma. IMO, this reflects poorly upon Dhirananda�s character. Spirituality is not and should not be a business venture. This is true no matter what the court records show or don�t show. soulcircle, I�m a 30+ year SRFer who heard long ago that Yogananda had been sorely disappointed by two Indians who had come over to help him but who failed him in the end. I knew none of the details, nor did I know that Yogananda had a ghost writer/coauthor on the Science Of Religion. As do you, I don�t think SRF should be covering up and sanitizing history, such as omitting references to Premanada and airbrushing him out of photos,etc. But what does all this have to do with Yogananda or with the wonderful results that can be achieved through kriya yoga meditation and devotion? As to �the man Borg108 quickly chastises��, I�m in no position to chastise anyone. I was pointing out the strong social conditioning BY INDIANS that causes anyone breaking their sannyas vow to be looked down upon and treated as an outcast. Being an Indian himself, Dhirananda must have been well aware of this attitude and must have had strong desires and/or ambitions to go against such social moir�s. Breaking his sannyas vows and demanding funds for himself at the expense of Yogananda's work might also detract from his credibility, in some circles. Nag writes: �As for Babaji, etc. using powers. Yes, those in your lower religions do revert to powers.� Give me that lower religion anytime. Gyanamata has written that the Guru, if he is to be judged at all, cannot be judged by our standards. Their actions might not be understood by us, and might seem odd or even contradictory at times (Sri Ramakrishna boat example). But true Gurus come here to do whatever is necessary to help others. There is the story of Guruji telephoning Dr Lewis and chastising him for something he never did. At first Doctor objected, then he meekly accepted what Guruji had to say. His faith and love carried him through that test, even though he didn�t understand why this was happening. Others might have questioned how a Guru could be so wrong, lose faith in him, and leave. I know of one man who did just that. Who do you think was better off ? Edited by: Borg108 at: 12/4/03 8:19 am
soulcircle Registered User (12/2/03 4:46 pm) Reply	the person who left was better off i like your questions borg108 in another post we were all asked what has kriya done for us i answered in that post Borg108 what has kriya done for you
nagchampa2 Registered User (12/2/03 5:32 pm) Reply	Re: so disappointed and many doubts Borg: "I think Yogananda was trying to save Dhirananda from acquiring bad karma by taking the money." I hope you don't really believe this. It sounds like you are justifying him just as I have always done. What about Yogananda's karma in not going by the ruling of the court? an east indian just informed me that you can cancel your vows of celibacy and cease to be a swami without incurring criticism. But violating your vows of celibacy while a swami was a no- no. he ceased being a swami before getting married. Edited by: nagchampa2 at: 12/4/03 6:52 pm
Borg108 Registered User (12/2/03 8:18 pm) Reply	Re: so disappointed and many doubts Nag, That may be true nowadays among some city dwelling Indians who live more like westerners getting divorced, etc. But my discussions with more traditional Indians indicates otherwise. It certainly was not the case in 1920 India. Also, I would give more credence to this person's remarks if he were a disinterested party rather than one who might be trying to rationalize away his own actions. As you pointed out here, I do know you (we've corresponded). I know you to be an intelligent and caring person. So I was surprised to see your attack on Yogananda based on hearsay from some unidentified source. Perhaps your source has an axe to grind - I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was from another path that wanted to make themselves appear taller by cutting off the heads of others - or from someone who wanted to assuage their guilt from turning away from Yogananda. I guess we'll never know. Good luck on your new path. Edited by: Borg108 at: 12/4/03 9:21 am
ugizralrite Registered User (12/2/03 8:22 pm) Reply	Re: so disappointed and many doubts nagchampa2, Back in the early 1980s my brother was dying of AIDS and based on the miraculous cures boasted in the SRF Magazine and other miracles I put my heart and soul into trying to cure him by spiritual means. I notified SRF but really kind of got stiffed, "We'll put his name in the box, and pray that he be surrounded by light." Which to be truthful was not what I had been led to expect. After he died I pitched every SRF book, every lesson (except the kriya series), every photo and every tape recording into a deep abandoned quarry on a bright sunny liberating day. He died a blessed death with family and friends near. One friend especially, Iva Grover (now deceased herself), sat with him to the end. She was a true saint, a dynamic lady with many physical handicaps. He reported many contacts from the other side in his final weeks, and virtually went striding into death though flat on his back in a hospital bed.. So my prayers were answered, just not in the way I had been led to expect. I never did stop kriya either, and reconciled with SRF eventually.
SerenityNow7 Registered User (12/2/03 8:45 pm) Reply	Re: so disappointed and many doubts I'm getting quite dizzy from this spirited discussion...need a spinning brain emoticon. I'm feeling better...I am formulating a theory I can live with about all this, but I shall not reveal it till it is completed baking. About the posts way back about the needing a framework of religion for mystical experiences in meditation, now I understand. Yes, I had experiences which convinced me of a world beyond the obvious and of God's existence, and had I been in a religion I would have put a certain meaning on it. Still, in a way not-intererpreting has its advantage for me as well. As for a religion feeling like "home" that would be nice to find. It's ironically the Christian parts of SRF that feel odd to me! In a way I envy people who were raised in childhood in a religion that does work for them...maybe a deeper connection possible there?
nagchampa2 Registered User (12/3/03 1:55 am) Reply	Re: so disappointed and many doubts Borg: the person i talked with was an indian who had no actions to rationalize away. he was not a swami. i know many indians. it is basically srf who degrades people who leave their own order. indians are more forgiving. my source has no axe to grind. and has no desire to make himself appear taller and so on. and this person did not turn away from yogananda. he knew him, yes. i stand by what i said about yogananda because it is true and is not heresay. i would be glad to refrain from saying anymore about yogananda on this thread but walrus would have to move it, and if soulcircle desires, he and i and others can discuss these issues in "not in the main stream" and we will put a warning on the thread. i believe this is best because there are many devotees of yogananda here. perhaps walrus will be kind enough to do that for others. i also believe that one should expose a guru if he is a fake. even india put a warning for travelers to not see sai baba because of accusations or proof against or about him. think about it, people here are putting down srf and those who run it, and many of them are swamis (brothers), and yet they are put down on this board. yogananda had the title of a swami, and yet he is exempt from criticism? was he really a paramahansa? his claim was that he received a post card saying he was. is that the way they are created? no ceremony, etc. maybe it is. like yellowbeard said, and i have felt this for years, srf is only doing what yogananda did. like father like son. think about this. i have seen many photos of indians who were with yogananda in the beginning. they all left and are not spoken of again, nor are their photos in books. dhirananda and nerode were not the only indians who left yogananda. why is it that srf has so few indians in the organization? even ranchi has few members. am i angry at all this? yes. i am angry at myself for falling into this trap, for believing lies, and for having taken so long to get to the truth of the matter which was due to my own fear of asking the right people the right questions and all because i learned so well in srf that you don't question, and if you do you are bad. so i had fear of asking anyone these types of questions unless i knew before hand that they were anti-srf or anti-yogananda. in regards to dhirananda: he left srf, stopped being a swami, married, and when he sued yogananda he was no longer a swami, he was a professor. if any indians criticize his stepping down from being a swami, then that is their own prejudices. but i don't believe them to be this way. the suit was for payment of the remaining $7900 due on the note signed in 1929 for half the royalties on the books dhirananda had authored or coauthored. yogananda should have voluntarily paid dhirananda for his work, since they continued to publish these works for many years, indeed even now. so any lack of sprituality would be mutual. Edited by: nagchampa2 at: 12/4/03 7:03 pm
nagchampa2 Registered User (12/3/03 2:30 am) Reply	Re: reality soulcircle, how great that you have a copy of the science of religion with dhirananda's name on it. from things i have heard i would hide it. lol.
nagchampa2 Registered User (12/3/03 2:49 am) Reply	ugiz Ugiz, i am sorry to hear about your brother's death and of your experience with srf. i used to do volunteer work at srf. they don't pray for anyone. they have you sign people's names and put them in the box, even when you call them. and those names they said, God knows. i could have done better myself by praying than by just putting someone's name in a box. they don't have time to sit around and pray for anyone. Edited by: nagchampa2 at: 12/3/03 2:56 am
soulcircle Registered User (12/3/03 5:38 am) Reply	ugizralrite thank you for sharing our hearts extend their friendship and support to you even at this far from the date period

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