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        > Is it a cult?		 New Topic

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SerenityNow7
Registered User
(11/29/03 9:14 am)
 Is it a cult?
I see some people here refer to SRF as a cult here. I'd really value a discussion about this topic. What makes a cult a cult? Is any religion a cult?

Thanks!

ugizralrite
Registered User
(11/29/03 11:28 am)
 Re: Is it a cult?
Well, yeah. Like that's what this forum is all about duude. ;) But as far as cults go in negative connotation, this one kind of stumbled ineptly into cultishness, woke up one morning, looked in the mirror, and damn!, there was cult breaking out all over its face. The curse of adolescence.

SerenityNow7
Registered User
(11/29/03 12:08 pm)
 Re: Is it a cult?
Ooops, did I miss the point, lol! I've been reading a lot here and pondering everything. It seems things are definitely rotten in Denmark at the level of deeper involvement than the local centers. It would be a large overstatement to compare SRF to say the Jim Jones cult or those who people who believed in the comet....even Jehovah's witnesses or Mormons who actively try to recruit people. Most would say Mormons aren't a cult though...but why? Are Catholics a cult?

Here's one definition of what a cult is from Spirit Watch What do you all think?

7 ELEMENTS OF A CULTIC GROUP

1) A centralized form of leadership that rules with unquestioned authority

2) A body of convictions, beliefs, and practices set forth boldly as "the truth"

3) A compelling presentation of the group vision to prospects that is inviting and challenging

4) A series of manipulative socializing sessions to instill psychological dependence on the group

5) A definable process of group dynamics used to unethically control and manipulate members

6) A history of abuses of authority by group leaders freely using deception and fear tactics

7) A history of psychological and spiritual abuses of group members that destroy lives

OneTaste
Registered User
(11/29/03 12:30 pm)
 Re: Is it a cult?
Well, SN7, this is a great question to ask if you want to see the dynamics of this board and whether any of the things I said about it have any merit. Usually when this one gets floated it is entertaining to see how folks will shoe-horn in all sorts of stuff to make the "evidence" fit the thesis. You know, the standard unscientific method. Anyway, I hope it gets lots of play.

I'll go first. It's a perfect description of any military throughout history. What do I win?

ugizralrite
Registered User
(11/29/03 12:39 pm)
 Re: Is it a cult?
1) A centralized form of leadership that rules with unquestioned authority A: Pretty much so.

2) A body of convictions, beliefs, and practices set forth boldly as "the truth" A: Oh yeah.

3) A compelling presentation of the group vision to prospects that is inviting and challenging A: Bingo.

4) A series of manipulative socializing sessions to instill psychological dependence on the group A. Not for the lay people, but you should ask an ex-monastic.

5) A definable process of group dynamics used to unethically control and manipulate members A. Don't think so, not group dynamics anyway from my experience.

6) A history of abuses of authority by group leaders freely using deception and fear tactics A. That certainly was the result if not the intent.

7) A history of psychological and spiritual abuses of group members that destroy lives A. Not in my experience.

As human beings in a scary world, we so desperately want to nail down a Truth and cling to it. Sometimes clinging results in an obstruction to the original quest. I think it can happen to us all in any religion or social or political movement, and so the history of SRF is a human story in that way. If our thirst for truth is strong enough and if we no longer find it quenched in one place, we just naturally move on.

So if just now the shadow of negative cult-like behavior is passing over SRF, I think it will be healed by some means either from within or from reformation. The principles of kriya yoga, i.e., a means of going within and addressing pure consciousness, are very effective and worth preserving.

nagchampa2
Registered User
(11/29/03 7:45 pm)
 Re: Is it a cult?
is srf a cult? that is a hard question. i once studied cults after getting out of one, and so i looked very hard at srf before joining, and i saw no cult-like activity. but i think you have to be inside to see it.

1. even Jesus was a central authority figure, but i am not sure if he ruled with unquestioned authority. and yet they said that when he spoke, he spoke with authority. the pope does, but i don't think the Catholic Church is a cult. every church has a minister that could be called an authority figure. i just didn't think that srf ruled my life that much, that is, not unless i asked questions.

2. i am not sure that srf says that you have to believe everything, but they certainly do say if you read other teachings you will get confused. they won't toss you out for reading other religious books, but a cult will. they won't give you kriya unless you pledge allegence to them.

3. i don't even know what this means, unless it promises the goal of self-realizaton, which any group would do, whether it be heaven or liberation. i just didn't see a group vision. any vision i had was on my own in meditation. lol. and they didn't know what to make of them.

4. they don't make you psychological dependent upon the group; instead they make it impossible to even make friends within the group, and so one tended to find friends elsewhere if they wanted friends.

5. i don't think this applies either.

6. now this one is borderline. i realize the monastics have it bad, but that is the way it is in most monastic settings, only not as bad. i guess i can't speak for them. but as for the layman, the fear tactics are their telling you if you don't follow Yogananda's teachings, then it will be several lifetimes before you find this path again. but of course, i didn't want to find it again. the deception is in hiding truths from the members, being secretive, making Yogananda into someone he wasn't. purifying him for us. and why did they have to purify him if he was already purified?

7. i understand that the monastics have had a very rough time with this one, but i didn't feel any abuse. i felt a lack of freedom to go to other religious organizations and read other religious materials, but other than that the psychological damage was in feeling betrayed by an organization that i had looked up to and had hoped to stay in for the rest of my life.

nagchampa2
Registered User
(11/29/03 8:15 pm)
 Re: Is it a cult?
THE EVOLUTION OF RELIGIOUS CULTS

Having experienced cult life and read the histories of several contemporary religious cults, it would seem they evolve in a similar way. Listed below are the 16 stages of cult evolution. Not all religious cults will pass through each stage and stages will overlap:
1.        People encounter an attractive, small group within which a leader has emerged or is self-appointed
2.        The leader is charismatic and people focus around him or her
3.        The followers gradually isolate the leader by elevating him or her
4.        The group enlarges and members form emotional bonds, united by common aims and activities
5.        The leader begins to change, flattered by the attention of the followers. Drained by the constant demands of the followers, she or he develops a distorted view of her or himself. The leader lacks peers with which to measure herself or himself against. The leader considers there is no earthly authority to which she or he is answerable
6.        The group continues to grow to the point where formal organization becomes necessary
7.        The group applies for charitable status. It runs businesses. By now, the annual financial turnover of the group is substantial
8.        The group is highly structured with several people in positions of power over others
9.        The leader begins to live away from the main body of the group
10.        People desiring power and control gravitate to the leader and form a clique around him or her
11.        The clique protects the leader in order to protect its own interests. The leader is now out of control - testing her/his autocratic powers to their limits. The power clique attempts to prevent followers from recognizing the deterioration in the leader. People on the fringes of the organization are mostly unaware of what is happening at the centre.
12.        News begins to leak out to the membership. The leadership comes under attack both from outside and within the group
13.        Law suits are served by the organization against those publicly expressing criticism of the group. Former members challenge the group with counter suits.
14.        The leader and power clique resort to increasingly extreme and desperate measures in order to maintain their position and silence opposition.
15.        The catastrophic denouément - public scandal, imprisonment, attempted murder, murder, suicide.
16.        The emergence of the re-formed group in a more repressive form than the original.

All along this evolutionary line people are joining and leaving the organization.

soulcircle
Registered User
(11/29/03 10:59 pm)
 do people feel the have
do people feel they have received initiation from Yogananda when a sister or brother touches them

member108
Registered User
(11/30/03 6:32 am)
 Re: Is it a cult?
There are several threads on SRF as a cult but here are you answers in my humble opinion. However, to be clear I DO NOT think Yogananda started a cult. The Bad Ladies are responsible for the current organization.

1) A centralized form of leadership that rules with unquestioned authority. Yes on this one. The leadership is viewed by many to be God Realized. It is not loyal to question them.

2) A body of convictions, beliefs, and practices set forth boldly as "the truth". Yes, and the religion is the “airplane route” isn’t it?

3) A compelling presentation of the group vision to prospects that is inviting and challenging. Yes.

4) A series of manipulative socializing sessions to instill psychological dependence on the group. Life at the temples is somewhat like this. People quickly learn the routine. Convocation is more like this and inside the ashram it is VERY much like this. SRF actually cares little about the members and therefore does not bother control them much. At this point enough money is still coming in. As that changes, watch out! Remember the fight for their non-profit status and the recent mother center building project? Both manipulated the membership to help them. The ashram is another story. It is VERY controlling and as they feel they must maintain control at all costs.

5) A definable process of group dynamics used to unethically control and manipulate members. As with question #4 some of this happens naturally as SRF pushes the belief that the leadership is perfect. When members get a VL appeal from a perfect God Realized set of being there is an unethical influence (since it is a lie). Of course inside the ashram this is the case in spades.

6) A history of abuses of authority by group leaders freely using deception and fear tactics. This is certainly true of employees and monastics. The God Realized ladies fire and intimidate people quite a bit. Life inside the ashram is all about control through pseudo "training". Very emotionally abusive.

7) A history of psychological and spiritual abuses of group members that destroy lives. Read the stories in the Walrus. The Walrus would not even exist if this were not the case.

There are a lot of threads on SRF being a cult. Here is another one
pub78.ezboard.com/fsrfwal...D=23.topic
I like the final quote in this thread by crogman1:
Quote:
Certainly SRF is a cult in the modern sense of it being a religious organization with some motive other than the helping of it’s membership. SRF’s goal is protection of SRF. This comes in many forms and with many excuses, but a focus on the membership can’t be claimed by even the senior monastics.


Ask your minister what the goal of SRF is! It always is phrased in terms of the "teachings". Continuing the teachings, protecting the teachings, publishing the teachings. This is SRF code for protecting the organization.

There are many good threads related to this in the section Life on the Inside.

Edited by: member108 at: 11/30/03 6:39 am
X Insider
Registered User
(11/30/03 8:24 pm)
 Re: Is it a cult?
Yes, lots of good info on this subject already on Walrus. Check the "Golden Age" of posting; about 2 years ago.

And yes, the current SRF monastic order is a cult. This is sad but true. Lots of wounded people there.

xmonk
Registered User
(12/1/03 5:03 pm)
 Re: Is it a cult?
Serenity,
You asked: "Is It A Cult?" and "Are All Religions Cults?". You then posted the elements of a cult (which are right on the money):

Elements Of A Cult.

1) A centralized form of leadership that rules with unquestioned authority.

2) A body of convictions, beliefs, and practices set forth boldly as "the truth".

3) A compelling presentation of the group vision to prospects that is inviting and challenging.

4) A series of manipulative socializing sessions to instill psychological dependence on the group.

5) A definable process of group dynamics used to unethically control and manipulate members.

6) A history of abuses of authority by group leaders freely using deception and fear tactics.

7) A history of psychological and spiritual abuses of group members that destroy lives.

BINGO!!! All of the above attributes are those which describe
religions to a tee. SRF is truly the poster child of those rules.
Fear and guilt are and integral part of all the religions that have held their people in bondage since day one.

Speaking of SRF, if anyone has spent any time in the inner workings of that organization, he will immediately recognize
the above rules as being a perfect description of what they are. Remember Jim Jones? He had many unquestioning and obedient followers, too.

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