so disappointed and many doubts

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SerenityNow7 Registered User (11/25/03 11:57 am) Reply	so disappointed and many doubts Hi, I'm new here and need some advice. It is my nature to investigate thoroughly anything I get involved with or buy or place I visit. I got involved with SRF a couple months ago and am doing the lessons. I really have felt inspired by Yogananda and the teachings. So finding out that there is so much trouble in SRF and that the people who run it have feet made of clay is a real blow. Does that imply something negative about the teachings themselves that the people in charge are like this? Surely they meditate daily and apply all these lessons, so why are they as vain and ambitious as your average guy out on the street? I am also troubled by the use of the term "Master". While I have tremendous respect for Yogananda and his teachings, I don't think calling him (or anyone) Master will ever feel right to me. I see so many other devotees act like I am still being too intellectual, too questioning, ....and it disturbs me to see that they are not. So I am having a lot of doubts about this path and what place SRF should have in my life. I'll always be a critical thinker, I don't think I should give that up....so does this mean I'll never fit in? I wonder if I should just take what works from the Lessons but seek a spiritual community elsewhere? I am confused and sad. Any advice appreciated, thank you. SerenityNow
bsjones Registered User (11/25/03 1:41 pm) Reply ezSupporter	Re: so disappointed and many doubts SerenityNow7, I'm new too, and I like the "cafeteria approach" - take what you want and leave the rest. For me, what is great about the lessons is that I can study them at home, when I have a little time. It fits with my "modern" fast-paced, isolated, Western life. In fact, I wonder if Babaji didn't have people like me in mind when he sent the teachings to the West. Some of the material from SRF was making me feel uncomfortable at first, so I was glad to find this board to put it into perspective more. That "master" stuff is a little much for me at this point also. Good luck to ya.
ranger20 Registered User (11/25/03 2:17 pm) Reply	Re: so disappointed and many doubts Serenity, Welcome! At it's best, this is a unique online community of very sincere seekers after Truth who are trying to sort out the wheat from the chaff. Thinking allowed! *Quote:* I really have felt inspired by Yogananda and the teachings. I think it's safe to say that no one would be here if they had not been inspired by Yogananda and the teachings. *Quote:* So finding out that there is so much trouble in SRF and that the people who run it have feet made of clay is a real blow. Does that imply something negative about the teachings themselves that the people in charge are like this? That has been one of the key questions that has driven my explorations for perhaps the last four years, of some 24 years in SRF. Which parts of the teachings are "authentically" those of Yogananda, and which are added by interpolaters? What may have been the context of this or that saying - for instance, are things he said to a particular monastic on a particular occasion now quoted as advice for everyone? And this is the big, "hour of the wolf" question, does, in fact, the current leadership actually reflect something in the person of Yogananda? I personally find the meditation techniques valuable, and certain other specific pieces of advice from the lessons. I still like to read Yogananda, but these days find I am only comfortable with very early editions of the Autobiography, and the red covered edition of "Whispers from Eternity," which he edited himself. I think in the lessons, one has to be like the proverbial ant, able to seperate grains of sugar from grains of sand. The lessons are rife with "should/ought" language. I've finally gotten clear on a fairly simple principle - if something is not presented in the voice of compassion, it's not worth paying attention to. It is my impression that this is how "the real" Yogananda was. I can't proove it, for all the textual comparisons I've done lately, but it remains my impression, in part, perhaps, because of the connection I first experienced with him when I started. I was really pretty messed up, a wastral by anyone's definition, yet looking at the photos in the AY, I experienced complete acceptance just as I was, and a sense that it was okay. *Quote:* Surely they meditate daily and apply all these lessons, so why are they as vain and ambitious as your average guy out on the street? It's by no means clear what the leadership does, but the consensus here is they do not practice what they preach. I've read a lot of the work of Thomas Keating, a Trappist monk, who has applied the basic concepts of developmental psychology to the contemplative life, and states emphatically, with various examples, that "spiritual practice" alone will not magically mend our neuroses and psychological quirks if there is not an attempt to bring awareness into that area. The SRF leadership is blatantly afraid of serious psychological inquiry. *Quote:* I had a problem with "Master" for a long time. Don't use the word if it bothers you. *Quote:* I see so many other devotees act like I am still being too intellectual, too questioning, ....and it disturbs me to see that they are not. A very wise friend once said to me, "The quickest way to drive yourself insane is to compare your insides to other people's outsides." The display of piety that characterizes most large groups of SRF folk, who are close enough to the organization to see how they're "supposed to behave," just speaks volumes about the level of fear in the average devotee. Last year, during a routine Q&A session with some visiting monastics, a member of the local group asked this question, with great trepedation: "You know...sometimes I like to read fiction...you know, mysteries and things like that...is that real bad?" Sooo...do you think you should give up your critical thinking abilities? Do you think the Yogananda of the Autobiography would want you to give up your critical thinking abilities? *Quote:* I wonder if I should just take what works from the Lessons but seek a spiritual community elsewhere? I am confused and sad. I think that is what I am in the process of doing. I say "I think" because it's one of those instances of just "finding myself" in a place that feels like it offers renewal, even as my "critical faculties" are still working it out - feet leading the head. Again, welcome, and at the very least, know that here at the Walrus, you are not alone with your doubts and questions. Edited by: ranger20 at: 11/25/03 2:25 pm
SerenityNow7 Registered User (11/25/03 3:38 pm) Reply	Re: so disappointed and many doubts bsjones, I like this cafeteria idea too. Even though I am spun around by all I've learned, I can't deny there is real value in the lessons and techniques. I've just got to figure out how to reconcile what I know...experiencing some cognitive dissonance today. Ranger, thanks for the welcome! And I gather from what you say it's ok to still be current part of SRF and this board? I'm guessing I shouldn't be discussing it at the center next Sunday though. I'm floored by the fact someone would ask if it is okay to read fiction! Does it say anywhere in the lessons people shouldn't read other material? There's no way that's gonna happen for me. Yes, separating wheat from the chaff is clearly the job here. How do you find these earlier, less tampered with editions of the books you mentioned? How big are the differences from the current ones? thanks!
SerenityNow7 Registered User (11/25/03 3:46 pm) Reply	Re: so disappointed and many doubts A short addition. I've been thinking a lot about Jesus in connection with this. It has been 2000 years since his time. It has been fifty since Yogananda's. In fifty short years there's already issues of what PY really said, where words were edited. I can only imagine the difficulty with the authenticity in the Bible...what all has happened in 2000 years! There's the original words and presence of the spiritual master...and after that it's all in the hands of the followers and their followers and their followers down through time!
needthestar Registered User (11/25/03 4:10 pm) Reply	Master Blaster SN7 - Welcome....I've posted a few times and lurked many, many hours! Questions are good and welcome...questions make us healthy. Questions are what probably brought most to Yogananda. I've never been keen on Master either. Try Teacher. Or just Yogananda. Some people get fancy and put the "ji" on the end, but I don't...it's all from the heart just the same. Follow your heart...sometimes you head can just put you in circles; trying to apply logic to the illogical. Maybe Faith is the word? Faith cannot be measured in test tubes or probed with microscopes. SoulCircle is a big promoter of the Heart. Excellent poet too. These are thoughts from a very flawed person...but maybe they'll help - welcome.
etzchaim Registered User (11/25/03 5:41 pm) Reply	Re: so disappointed and many doubts Serenity, you sound very healthy to me. My head spun around a lot when I first discovered the Walrus. Every once in a while someone shows up here that makes it spin some more, but for the most part this is a good place. I'm only vaguely connected to SRF, Yogananda was my Guru's Guru's Guru. I'd moved away from my original community and was looking for Kriyabans. The Yogananda I learned about is very different from the SRF version. Something in me says he would want you to keep thinking and be who you are and don't worry about what other people think of you. I would say they're crazy. I'm not sure what his exact words would be. I also think he would really be into reading Science Fiction. I would use the lessons as a cookbook. Take the recipes that are tasty to you, experiment to see which ones work best for you and, from what I've gathered, don't try to do everything. You'll go nuts. As far as being a part of SRF and being on the Walrus, this is a very secure place and they're not likely to be able to figure out who you are. If you don't want to worry, just don't say what chapel you go to, or bring up personal stuff that would identify you. As far as community goes, I would definately remain open to other people on spiritual paths that are different from yours, and other types of people, too. One of my best friends is a Viet Nam vet who is vehemently against religion. He's a very high soul, but he refuses to believe it and when I had no one else, he was there to support me. There seems to be pressure to only do things associated with SRF. Ignore that pressure. On the other hand, you might just meet other Walri at SRF gatherings. Wouldn't it be great if enough Walri showed up at enough chapels and then took over? Etz, outside agitator, fomenting the revolution. Edited by: etzchaim at: 11/25/03 5:52 pm
ugizralrite Registered User (11/25/03 7:48 pm) Reply	Re: so disappointed and many doubts quote: Wouldn't it be great if enough Walri showed up at enough chapels and then took over? Etz, outside agitator, fomenting the revolution. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Very prescient. In time this may percolate into reality.
nagchampa2 Registered User (11/26/03 6:07 am) Reply	Re: so disappointed and many doubts hi, your wrote: "I see so many other devotees act like I am still being too intellectual, too questioning." i am curious to what you are questioning in regards to srf? is it from reading this board, or is it from things you, yourself, have observed? if they don't answer your questions in a satisfactory way, then why stay? all yogis say that book knowledge is not important, that experiencing God is all that matters. i remember going to a psychologist for three visits in regards to my problems in religion just after leaving srf, and she said, "The reason you don't last in any religion is because you ask too many questions, and religions don't like you to ask questions." you can find one that does, but remember, no matter what religion you are in, never think that you have to believe every word that is spoken or written. you should be able to choose what you want to believe. what matters is that you follow the meditation techniques as given to you by your guru and forget the rest--forget the dogma or any other teachings. in the long run, God is all that matters. Edited by: nagchampa2 at: 12/4/03 7:16 pm
soulcircle Registered User (11/26/03 6:17 am) Reply	mighty snotty Serenity, from The Supreme Court the Kind Supreme Court Of Your SRF Center has just Exorcised all Fear and Negative Aspects Your center has been seized All organization has been over thrown Common Dreams PREVAIL!! your former SRF Center is now under sway of love the truth decision is rendered NO ONE MASTERS All Folks SUPPORT and UNDERstand and underSTAND WHILE there is no appeal from above decision .....questions are sought and encouraged All the folks that come will be filled with light And Love SRF is no more There is celebration Come Enjoy, everyone at your Center arrived early and is waiting to talk to you about Walrus Board and To Listen ~~~~~~ Serenity, the world sharing and co-operation revolution has just succeeded while you slept. ~~~~~~~~~ heehee, having fun yet is soulcircle kickin it yet, homey ~~~~~~~~~ All your questions' answers await you!! You will arrive at your "former SRF" center shortly. SRF Walrus standing at the podium You tremble as the envelope is opened Holding the envelope while one billion watch on revolution TV worldwide .........Billy Crystal.......... aka SRF Walrus cracks a joke ...."saying soulcircle is such a square ....he is easy to corner and his advantage is unfair ....he bribed the devil to be born in a body ....and soulcircle is mighty, I'll say it again, mighty snotty" AS Billy Crystal******** wipes his nose with a hanky ....winks and mumbles" I "blew" the punch line..." The envelope is opened.... The answer to Serenity's questions are..... ................drums roll.............. "*the answers are In the sound of a butterfly" [translation from silly billy language] the answers are in your stunningly-living, truth-lovin heart Serenity and your answers are in the laughter of a child! ~~~~~~~~~ Serenity friend, we thank the longtime sun shining on us, and all the love surrounding us, and the pure light within each guest here, each human....we thank the pure light within, that you are with us that with you here, the circle is more whole with you here, I can say I love you.... thank you, wholecircle Edited by: soulcircle at: 11/26/03 6:29 am*
ranger20 Registered User (11/26/03 9:01 am) Reply	Re: mighty snotty *Quote:* heehee, having fun yet is soulcircle kickin it yet, homey Well...almost, but not quite. The winter SRF mag came yesterday. I had been wondering what, if anything, might indicate some recognition of the elephant in the living room. Even hoping ("you may say I'm a dreamer") for some little gesture of reconcilliation in "Master's family," like Convo quotes from the several monks who made comments in that general direction. Not quite... Faye's piece, about how to do away with hurt feelings, had this in a sidebar *Quote:* Persons whose minds are strong and positive cannot be affected by any amount of negativity from others. p.31 I guess we now know what the problem is: people who have been hurt by the organization have minds that are weak and negative. It's our fault. We can go home now. This will certainly contribute to the level of emotional honesty of the rank and file. Advent starts on Sunday. I have been thinking of these words from the prophet Isaiah that Jesus quoted at the start of his ministry, "He has sent me...to bind up hearts that are broken." Looks like he'll be in business a while longer [sarcasm off]. Edited by: ranger20 at: 11/26/03 9:03 am
ranger20 Registered User (11/26/03 10:47 am) Reply	Re: so disappointed and many doubts *Quote:* I gather from what you say it's ok to still be current part of SRF and this board? Sure. *Quote:* I'm guessing I shouldn't be discussing it at the center next Sunday though. As other people have stated, qnd quite seriously, you should not mention things like Walrus, doubts, Ananda, etc, since if items like this crop up in your file, SRF is likely to deny you Kriya, should you choose to apply for it later on. *Quote:* I'm floored by the fact someone would ask if it is okay to read fiction! Does it say anywhere in the lessons people shouldn't read other material? The lessons state that you should not engage in multiple spiritual practices at one time. You should not indiscriminately read a bunch of different spiritual writings at one time, lest you get confused. If you want to really investigate the lessons, give them a significant period of focused time. Common sense. If you want to improve your freethrows, don't spend half your time at batting practice. The lessons also advise you to read "inspiring" literature, ie, don't spend your time with trash. It certainly does not say don't read literature, or do not do recreational reading. Apparently word of mouth instruction from the ministers at the temples is that it's a big no-no to attend any other church (this was not articulated when I started, or at least I missed it). I guess it's also frowned upon to read any other spiritual books. This individual must have misunderstood that instruction as don't read any other kind of book period. What is sad is the extent to which the person disowned their own experience. It's an extreme case, but without extreme care, it's a kind of contagion that can be picked up easily. "Desires are bad." "I desire to read Agatha Christie, therefore that impulse must be bad." Be careful out there! A reprint of the first edition of the Autobiography is available in print, and at this link. A comparison is very instructive. www.geocities.com/ay1946/contents.html Edited by: ranger20 at: 11/26/03 10:50 am
OneTaste Registered User (11/26/03 2:12 pm) Reply	On the other hand . . . *Quote:* I got involved with SRF a couple months ago and am doing the lessons. I really have felt inspired by Yogananda and the teachings. So finding out that there is so much trouble in SRF and that the people who run it have feet made of clay is a real blow. Does that imply something negative about the teachings themselves that the people in charge are like this? SRF is guilty of the crime of being filled with people doing people-ish things, as is this board, as is your house and mine and everywhere else. This fact alone has cause endless turmoil for lots of people. It seems to me that you are more fortunate than a lot of us here who have been involved for years and decades. Just starting out, you have already been introduced to the man behind the curtain and will not spend years trembling before the great and mighty Oz. Who is actually responsible for the creation and sustenance of said wizard, well that�s a point that has been debated often. Of course, stances differ. *Quote:* Surely they meditate daily and apply all these lessons, so why are they as vain and ambitious as your average guy out on the street? Because they are people and people do people-ish things, as a matter of course. That they should be �better� than the average guy on the street is an assumption that has made an ass out of many more than u or me and one that continues to thrive, even in this down market. It�s a pernicious malady that causes a host of problems and is neither fair nor accurate when it comes to the average guy on the street or any of the rest of us. And, boy, does it cause a splitting headache. *Quote:* I am also troubled by the use of the term "Master". While I have tremendous respect for Yogananda and his teachings, I don't think calling him (or anyone) Master will ever feel right to me. This is a common occurrence, and happily, an easy one to deal with. As has been suggested, if you aren�t comfortable with it, don�t use it. It�s only a convention adopted from the translation of guru. At the time Y came over, the g-word was as luridly freakish as could be. Having no workable term handy, he had to go with something, eh? But no one has ever said it was mandatory to use it, so don�t sweat it. *Quote:* I see so many other devotees act like I am still being too intellectual, too questioning, ....and it disturbs me to see that they are not. So I am having a lot of doubts about this path and what place SRF should have in my life. I'll always be a critical thinker, I don't think I should give that up....so does this mean I'll never fit in? SN7, as one to another, let me cut to the chase: No, you are not going to fit in. Ever. The reason is simple, however complicated we seek to make it. There is no in. You can�t get there from here because it�s neither here nor there. That we bounce from one false hope to another in search of this will o the wisp is part of our charm and all to our harm. It�s a frightening condition called human and none of us likes it very much. So we are willing to do all sorts of things with the hope that maybe this time . . . If you are a critical thinker and an intellectual, I�m willing to bet that you�ve bumped up against this feeling of alienation time and again long before you got to SRF, and that this may have been part of what led you to seek out SRF in the first place. Maybe part of what disturbs you about other devotees who don�t question or probe as you do is the sadness that they are all too much like a lot of other people you�ve encountered. It�s their blessing and their curse. That Shangri-La is just another part of Shangri-La-la Land is the problem and realizing that it is is the first step towards the cure. But, as is often the case, that first step is a doozy. *Quote:* I am confused and sad. It�s a long line, my friend, but at least it�s one where we all can belong. It moves pretty quickly when it�s not at a dead stop. *Quote:* Welcome! At it's best, this is a unique online community of very sincere seekers after Truth who are trying to sort out the wheat from the chaff. Thinking allowed! Yes, this is true, except when it�s not. Please read the fine print, because at it�s worst this place is as hidebound as anything in SRF it sets out to rebuke. My advice is to read with discrimination and have your saltshaker handy because you will need it. As for the wheat and the chaff, this again is the case, although opinions vary as to which is which. As ever, one man gathers what another man spills. *Quote:* It's by no means clear what the leadership does, but the consensus here is they do not practice what they preach. Here is a sterling example of what I mean. Your discerning mind should be all over this one because Ranger is right as rain here. That one statement is a zip file for one of the biggest problems you will find on this board�black and white, us and them splitting, along with an unhealthy amount of rumor and insinuation that has coagulated into �fact.� I�m not saying Ranger is doing this, but that it happens all over the board. Like SRF, although there are exceptions all over the place, there is a party line here. Thinking that expresses this line is far more accepted than thinking that doesn�t. And that�s a truth that some folks seemingly aren�t seeking at all. Look at your earlier question: �why are they as vain and ambitious as your average guy out on the street?� How did you come to this conclusion after a few months of taking the lessons? From reading stuff here? One of the odd quirks about this place is that for all the independent thinking we supposedly support, somehow that same ol� us and them stinking thinking that is so castigated re SRF sprouts up here as well. And little seeds can grow into mighty assumptions. By no means does SRF have a corner on the irrationality market. As ever, chiaroscuro, ho! *Quote:* Does it say anywhere in the lessons people shouldn't read other material? There's no way that's gonna happen for me. It�s odd that someone would ask if they could have permission to read something outside the scope of the writings, isn�t it? Obviously, like many others, you can�t relate to such an idea. And yet, the person who did, like you and I, is connected with SRF. Just as it would be foolish to think that all devotees are alike, it is equally foolish (though convenient) to think that all of the monastics are alike. I�ve never received any warnings or admonishments of the nature that folks here sometimes talk about. At the same time, I�ve been advised to read literature far beyond the SRF pale. I�ve borrowed this same literature from a monastic! Some monastics give some devotees some advice. And they turn right around and give the opposite advice to others. Some monastics think things are like this, while others think things are obviously like that. And some know that the exact opposite is true in either case. My favorite Ramakrishna story hits this one squarely. A devotee is in a ferry crossing a river when another passenger starts raining abuse all over Ramakrishna. So the devotee throws him out of the boat. He goes back and tells R about it and R tells him, �You shouldn�t have done that. You should have sat there silently.� The next day, another devotee is in the boat and again a passenger is raining down abuse. Remembering what R said, the devotee sits there silently. Later, he tells R about it and R says, �You shouldn�t have done that. You should have thrown him out of the boat.� All roads may in fact lead to Rome, but it�s just as true that they all lead away from Rome, too.
ugizralrite Registered User (11/26/03 2:25 pm) Reply	Finding Your True Guru, A chakra guide. Crown chakra: Your guru is the universe and the feeling of awe. Third Eye chakra: Your guru is your meditation teacher or psychological counselor. Throat chakra: Your guru is your school teachers, your professors, your travels, books and other media. Heart chakra: Your guru is your family, your friends, your feelings and the feelings of others. Belly chakra: Your guru is your art teacher, your choreographer, your mentor, your coach, your trade school. Genital chakra: Your guru is your lovers, your offspring, your sense of comfortable balance. Anal chakra: Your guru is your dietitian, your physician, your trainer, your hatha yoga instructor. So take heart if one-stop guru shopping isn't working out. Learning from each chakra guru gradually harmonizes and realizes your full human potential. Happy thanksgiving all.
nagchampa2 Registered User (11/27/03 8:07 am) Reply	Re: so disappointed and many doubts Serenity wrote: "A short addition. I've been thinking a lot about Jesus in connection with this. It has been 2000 years since his time. It has been fifty since Yogananda's. In fifty short years there's already issues of what PY really said, where words were edited. I can only imagine the difficulty with the authenticity in the Bible...what all has happened in 2000 years!" alot has changed in regards to Christ, not very much in regards to yogananda, but what has been changed is very important information. I would suggest you read everything on www.yogananda-dif.org, and you can get the first edition of autobiography of a yogi from ananda. i like what eztchaim said, "As far as community goes, I would definately remain open to other people on spiritual paths that are different from yours, and other types of people, too." and i don't think that that can be stressed enough. learn from all religions, learn from all people. i also agree with what one taste said, "No, you are not going to fit in. Ever. The reason is simple, however complicated we seek to make it. There is no in." except that there is an in. to be in is to conform. if you are not a conformist, there is no in, with that I have to agree. one taste also wrote: "Some monastics give some devotees some advice. And they turn right around and give the opposite advice to others. Some monastics think things are like this, while others think things are obviously like that. And some know that the exact opposite is true in either case. My favorite Ramakrishna story hits this one squarely. A devotee is in a ferry crossing a river when another passenger starts raining abuse all over Ramakrishna. So the devotee throws him out of the boat. He goes back and tells R about it and R tells him, �You shouldn�t have done that. You should have sat there silently.� The next day, another devotee is in the boat and again a passenger is raining down abuse. Remembering what R said, the devotee sits there silently. Later, he tells R about it and R says, �You shouldn�t have done that. You should have thrown him out of the boat.� my feeling is that one should never confuse the advice of a monastic to that of a guru, to one who knows what is best for his disciple, as opposed to a monastic who may know very little. a monastic's advice to a disciple can be very wrong and harmful, as many x-monastics on this board have learned. Edited by: nagchampa2 at: 12/4/03 7:21 pm
SerenityNow7 Registered User (11/27/03 11:36 am) Reply	Re: so disappointed and many doubts Oh my, so much to reply to... Needthestar, oddly enough I find Guruji ok... My main concerns with the term Master are whether I'm really breaking etiquette by not using it, or that I'm really missing the point somehow. I like Teacher, that seems good to me. Etzchaim, well I don't know how healthy I am in general, but thanks for the compliment! And yes it would be interesting...I'll wonder next time I'm at the center how many secret Walri are about. I've gotten a lot of value out of studying spiritual traditions, so I think I'll never lose touch with that. If anything, I have trouble narrowing down and focusing on one. Yogananda had me pegged in lesson 2 I think...someone who just loves ideas but needs to settle down and actually practice. Felt like he was talking to me personally there nagchampa2, you asked what am I questioning. Unfortunately it might really identify me to discuss that. I had occasion to call the Mother Center a couple times with specific questions and I got responses like no one has ever asked such a thing before like I was the oddest SRF member they ever encountered. Here's a more general one, I can't even get a straight answer on exactly what point the eyes should be focused on. It is physically impossible to look at the 3rd eye, physically uncomfortable to look at any point a couple inches in front of it, so what's one to do? I have asked the MC and a couple fellow SRF people, so far no answer that makes sense to me. Also, I smiled that your therapist said that about being too questioning being a problem with lasting in any religion. This has indeed been an issue for me too. I questioned a Tibetan monk a little too intensely recently Soulcircle, thank you for such a wonderful and amusing welcome! Glad to be here though I doubt this "Come Enjoy, everyone at your Center arrived early and is waiting to talk to you about Walrus Board" will be happening any time soon Ranger20, I've been thinking about alternating SRF with the local Unitarian church...based on what you said this might not go over well. I'll still do what I want anyway. Ok, but here's a question...my center is full of regular citizens no monastics, so does it really matter so much what I say anyway? And thanks for the link to the first edition. More responses coming up later after I've recharged. Just a short question for OneTaste though. The tone of your post puzzles me...you seem disenchanted with SRF and Walrus both. Where are you coming from?
nagchampa2 Registered User (11/27/03 1:26 pm) Reply	Re: so disappointed and many doubts serenity, being new here you may have received letters from walrus members, which are confidential. at the top of the topic is an area that says ezinbox. it is on the far right. if you click on it, you will see if you have mail. i agree with eztchaim that you are healthy. now you can't deny that, the vote is in. yes, it is uncomfortable to look at the 3rd eye. you don't have to raise your eyes that high. if it is uncomfortable, you are raising them too high. i used to just look a little up, between the bridge of my nose. i never had problems seeing lights, etc. from viewing that low. it really doesn't matter anyway. some other yoga groups teach to not focus your eyes on the 3rd eye or anywhere, but to focus your attention on your heart. yes, until recently, whenever i questioned any religion, i always got negative comments or positive ones that were meant to be negative. they just didn't have the answers. some acted like my questioning meant that i was a bad person and therefore marked for hellfire and damnation. which is where i probably could have found some real answers to the type of questions i was asking that group. i would love to know what you questioned the tibetan monk about. sounds interesting. Edited by: nagchampa2 at: 12/4/03 7:23 pm
OneTaste Registered User (11/27/03 1:53 pm) Reply	Re: so disappointed and many doubts *Quote:* Alot has changed in regards to Christ, not very much in regards to Yogananda, but what has been changed is very important information. I would suggest you read everything on www.yogananda-dif.org, and you can get the first edition of Autobiography of a Yogi from Ananda. This is a good point, Nag. While I think that SRF making changes the way they have is reprehensible, it does seem that as bad as they are, they are rather confined in scope. Maybe there�s stuff I haven�t seen floating around, but the changes that folks have pointed out here and elsewhere seem relegated to tweaking of things to highlight the org or the monastic lifestyle. Spin, as it were. While this is annoying, I don�t think it is a case of �you can�t trust anything that SRF puts out; there�s no way to know if he actually said or wrote anything.� That seems like a worse case scenario. As far as I can see, the teachings themselves, outside of their connection to the org or the monastic/householder spilit, seem intact. *Quote:* My feeling is that one should never confuse the advice of a monastic to that of a guru . . . Another excellent point, Nag. I don�t to give the impression that I was equating the two. Far from it. I was stressing that circumstances have to be factored in and that a one size fits all approach is dangerous if unexamined. Btw, I left out the explanation of the story. Any thoughts? *Quote:* Just a short question for OneTaste though. The tone of your post puzzles me...you seem disenchanted with SRF and Walrus both. Where are you coming from? SN7, don�t sweat it. As for my tone, I�m told I�m an acquired OneTaste. My point, however, is to be careful. With the pervasive disenchantment of SRF that permeates this board (and that I certainly subscribe to in general, if not always in detail), I�ve noticed a tendency for some people to state (sometimes tacitly, sometimes openly), that this place is somehow more attuned to the truth, that it�s a refuge of some sorts. This makes me laugh to keep from crying. Some of the stupidest things I�ve ever heard a devotee utter have come from this board. Some of the wisest, too. Despite what is sometimes put across, SRF ain�t all bad and this place isn�t all good. And vice versa. This plane just doesn�t work that way. In one very real sense, it�s always been the digital age�0�s and 1�s. Where I am coming from is my own private I dunno. I am disenchanted with SRF and the Walrus, just as I am enchanted with each.
soulcircle Registered User (11/27/03 2:55 pm) Reply	what is the best way to share my experiences Hi Guests, SerenityNow7 and All, Since being FURIOUS with the wasted $30,000,000 by SRF and my involvement with Walrus... [and by the way Dennis Weaver fed tens of thousands of hungry people for years during these same years!!!!] think of the desperately needed light that could have gone out into Southern California had SRF had the compassion and common sense of just the one member mentioned above since about 1996.... I have a number of years sharing at the chapel at Richmond, at convocation, in the library at 3880 san rafael, and in here with people, yet how do I share with you the art of listening as I study it? SerenityNow7 in the last year I encountered a somewhat new individual at the Richmond chapel and I began learning what makes his ticker tick. Let me mention www.charityfocus.org . Though I learned about his (and now our) involvement with these folks later, it's worth mentioning right up front. These people who largely transform themselves via needed communtiy service actions do have one simple format when they do meditate silently in a home in a group of say 10-30. They sit silently for an hour. They eat. They have an hour or so of sharing experiences around one word thought (a broad range of topics over time). It is a sharing. They all are often together for the charity actions I mentioned above that include helping in the broadest of ways from befriending homeless, to helping with shelter to many varied areas of human need. They have done such extensive work on web designing non-profit sites, that the cost of $4,000,000. has been saved in total by the 100 groups. They have no structure, dogma or affliliation. In their sharing/discussiing there is no teacher. They have remarkable speakers occasionally. Back to my friendship with this person at the chapel that has really been over six months. We have enjoyed starting to do our two-man actions such as sharing and enjoying the elderly within SRF. The first two knew Yogananda personally and both live in the bay area in California. They didn't know each other. We brought these two men together to meet each other. With time the possibility exists of recording their experiences. Two other elderly, a couple the wife was Kamala's friend and helper for 45 years the husband, 51 years ago met and over years was regularly with Dr. Lewis another lady grew up as a young child with Kamala so often in their home and at their table. She is unwell though with a glorious loving encouraging heart. By the way Kamala wore a white sari, how often I don't know. This not quite elderly ailing individual naturally assumed EVERY FAMILY had a "member" who wore a white sari. lol [By the way, friends in here, this month, I retired from the postal service after 23 years. The rest of my life I will do what I love. Making the bridge!] I mentioned this because the 89 year old and the 82 year old........the "direct" devotees...... hadn't known of each other. They do now. I do it freely. Money comes as needed, especially the more simply I live. The people my chapel friend and I know through charity focus and other groups we are benefitted by and serving have a dogma I forgot to mention: 1) All kind actions that we participate in we do to transform ourselves 2) We laugh too much ...... haw haw 3) We meet too many people who are never judgemental and who are so sweet......don't take my word.......email Jason Becker via MWhite48@aol.com Charity Focus has sprung up in homes everywhere all over the world with total independence one from another. The variety of actions is mind-boggling There is a month long peace prayer going on, by maybe, a thousand Buddhists, including Tibetan Monks. The prayer didn't even exist in published form sufficently, so more had to be printed and bound. Folks had to pre-register, more wanted to help than was needed!!! The first signed up went to Dharma Publishing and bound the prayers, handles and shipped them. No cost. ~~~~~~~~~ In a large successful project a window was opened on transforming the harsh competitive capitalism of the world to a world culture with much more co-operation and well-being. A reminder this is done to transform one's self with too much laughter, and with two many new friends!! In brief, the corporation Sony has an Asian family at the top with a huge family fortune. A son inheriting this had been bridged to the ( other's have inspired me, you see, to Make the Bridge!) the poorest strata of populations. When natives in this country or folks of the Hmong tribe of Laos, or folks on any island or continent/anywhere in the world ............ people who are barely/if any one step above starving and dying. When they created a saleable item...... These poorest folks beloved by Mother Theresa. These FOLKS! They handcraft something we all buy They may get 25 cents a day I have a simple woven item that cost $3.50 I have used it for ten years to carry my id's and credit card It has a snap that is my key chain So beautifully and intricately woven Well the rich man from Sony has compassion Many people volunteering all their available time freely, cause they do it to laugh and transform themselves ( none of us guests of the Walrus are depressed are we?) made a portal, a successful one, on the internet. Now the crafter of a keychain/wallet like mine get the whole $3.50 The volunteers on this action move the website into a major presence and marketing position on the internet, collect the credit card purchases and efficently get the $3.50 to the artist. We're not talking about Fair Trade. The artist with more than 25 cents for that day has the next day to begin gaining an education! The bridge from a large family fortune to one of the poorest. Imagine if some broad application made life something people can "afford," instead of just dying 30,000 a day, year in and year out while people amassed obscene profits So how due I bring this book long (lol) digression back to my new friend of the last year or six months. Well SerenityNow7 when you have a discussion and possibly tea in your home (friendship) with someone at your center....... 1) Life and listening and talking is simpler than many topics in here There are peoples plans, where they have lived and when some of them began families So you see these people have jobs and brothers and sisters too Some people when asked will share some hobby, or love of nature, or a class they want to take, or ...... I am fascinated just to know what job a person has Even if thereir is hate or too much stress in that job That simple fact amazes me because of the result It causes a result. the result is my compassion believe we all have all been through a lot I have it is automatic when i hear a pain to end up going nearby (in my case my home, a deli a restaurant) and begining a friendship dipped in kindness and when I hear words of inspiration, when I hear of a pleasure or good news.....I clam up and run and hide ....NOT! what is the best way to share my experiences of the vast area between not saying a word about Walrus and getting tarred and feathered? for your information when Walrus was first mentioned by me to this friend I met this Spring, he had read the Walrus, and was warm and open to you all so what further questions, insights, sharing do you have, All? help me circle Edited by: soulcircle at: 11/27/03 3:01 pm
soulcircle Registered User (11/27/03 3:06 pm) Reply	what is the best way to share my experiences so yes Serenity, the people at the center, though not impatient to talk about Walrus......those who are kind and warm folks would love to have a friend the subjects of the health, their family home and an interest in meeting a warm open heart are even a better subject and interest than the Walrus board
nagchampa2 Registered User (11/27/03 3:47 pm) Reply	Re: so disappointed and many doubts serenity, i thought over why srf can't answer your questions, and bless them, because they are only reading what they have been told to read. while the lessons are good, they will not answer all of your questions, and those in srf who are monastics as well as many other devotees don't read anything else. Edited by: nagchampa2 at: 11/27/03 3:49 pm

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