>
SRF Walrus
Mt. Washington, Ca
Open discussions about SRF
Gold Community SRF Walrus
    > Dealing with my doubts
        > Should I forget about my trip to India?		 New Topic    Add Reply

<< Prev Topic | Next Topic >>
Author Comment
CONFUSED
Unregistered User
(2/16/02 1:09 pm)
Reply 		Should I forget about my trip to India?
I came onto the path of Indian spirituality via SRF and Yogananda. Previously I had studied it but was always turned off by the extreme poverty, filth, and backwardness of India. I figured, how could a religion from a place like that possibly be any good? But then through Yogananda's writings, so permeated with his love and devotion, I came to see a different side of it. I continued my studies of Hinduism with renewed vigor thanks to him, and had come to embrace the religion and the land as my own. But in the last few years a disappointment has come over me with the whole thing, the guru business, the surrendering of my thinking and free will to a guru who I thought was god-realized but may turn out to be just another charlatan. Scandals about gurus and ashrams are nothing new, and I had always thought they were lesser gurus, and I felt safe with SRF. But now that I have seen that SRF has it's ugly side just like all the other guru organizations, I think I'm pretty much ready to throw in the towel and go back to my "comfortable" days as an agnostic/atheist. Maybe all this yoga, vedanta, vedas, upanishads crap is just another form of self-delusion and self-hypnotism I tell myself. Which brings me to my quandry about my trip to India. In my days of Hindu fervor I deeply wanted to go to India and see it all first hand, especially the way Yogananda wrote about it as the land of devotion and peace and love for God. So I started saving for a trip. And now I have the money to go to India and have been planning the trip for later this year. Only one problem, this disappointment that has now set in with the whole India/Gurus thing. You see, I have a lot of other good uses that I could put my trip money to. Soon I'll need to buy a new car. And I really wan to buy a house, I'm sick of renting. And I need new furniture. And new clothes. Since I've been in SRF I totally neglected the entire "material" side of my life. Since they teach it's not important or real, it's maya or delusion, I totally neglected all of it. As a result my life is all in shambles. Except for my trip to India. That was the one anchor in my life, that I had been working on for several years. But now that this whole guru business has disappointed me so much with it's fake gurus preaching continence and abstinence while having sex with everything that moves, it's really shaken me up. "What the hell am I doing wasting money on trips to India when I really need all these new things?" I ask myself. And more importantly, why waste time energy and money going to a place that is so screwed up, and has such a screwed up religion. I mean, if anything proves what a crock this whole Hinduism/Guru business/pseudo religion is, all one has to do is look at the shape India is in. Friends of mine who've been there had to cut their trip short and return home early. They said everything was run down, poverty everywhere, calamities, deformed people, filth, corruption, beaurocracy, the whole place stinks, people urinate and defecate and sleep and eat on the sides of the roads, it's backward in a way we Westerners can't imagine. So I'm thinking if that's the result of Hinduism, what the hell am I doing wasting my time and money on that when I could be doing what everyone else is doing here in the U.S. working, making lots of money, and having a comfortable life in a nice house, driving a nice SUV, being in clean, decent, comfortable surroundings and enjoying this world. This world is, after all, made by God for our enjoyment. Why be worrying about the next life, why not enjoy this one and let God or nature or evolution or whatever is out there take care of whatever comes afterward?

Anyway, sorry for the long rant, I just want to get your opinions about this. Has anyone else felt like this? What do you think I should do? More and more it's looking like SRF and Yogananda are just like all the other organizations in this whole Guru, Inc. business. Would love to hear your thoughts and feelings on this. Thank you!

rollingstone
Registered User
(2/16/02 5:01 pm)
Reply 		Re: Should I forget about my trip to India?
Hello:

Is SRF teaching the students to " surrendering (of my) thinking and free will to a guru" ? I hope not, because that is not what Yogananda taught. This path of Raja Yoga teaches that EVERTHING is to be tested and discrimination should never be abandoned. The Guru/disciple relationship is reciprocal in nature. A Guru is "sent" to you AFTER an intense and lifetime commitment to serve God is made and this is place above everything else: your family, your money, your own body. Is it possible that when you approched SRF, that you may of put the cart before the horse?

Is SRF teaching the students to " neglect the entire material side of (my) life, since they teach it's not important or real, it's maya or delusion". That is not what Yogananda teaches. A balance is struck between the material and spiritual. Much easier to practice your sadhana when your bills are paid and your gut is full. Material wealth gives you the opportuinty to serve others that need help.

So what if SRF has problems? When did SRF replace God as the object of worship?. Yogananda taught that the purpose of our lives is to establish our lost relationship with God by meditation, service and devotion. You don't need a church or organization to do this, nor do you have to neglect your work.

Also remember that India was not always a poor country. Do not judge the teachings of "this yoga, vedanta, veda
upanisad crap" because of the current conditions of India, (we could find ourselves in a similar conditon in this country some day). GOOD LUCK....STAY STRONG

Edited by: rollingstone at: 2/16/02 6:00:54 pm
username
Registered User
(2/16/02 5:16 pm)
Reply 		Re: Should I forget about my trip to India?
confused;

At least you didn't become a muslim and end up like Walker

Mandir
Unregistered User
(2/16/02 5:57 pm)
Reply 		username
username,

Why did you have to insult this person who asked for help?

Why are your replies always so mean?

username
Registered User
(2/16/02 7:04 pm)
Reply 		Re: username
Mandir;

How is what I said insulting? What is it about my replies that you find mean? I don't intend anything to be mean.

Mandir
Unregistered User
(2/16/02 7:32 pm)
Reply 		Re: username
Comparing this sincere spiritual seeker who is going through some confusion to an American traitor who goes to Afghanistan and joins a terrorist group harbored by a criminal regime and who joins them in fighting against his own country doesn't seem mean to you? Mean is perhaps too soft a word to describe it.

username
Registered User
(2/16/02 8:02 pm)
Reply 		Re: username
According to Walter's parents, their son got involved in a spiritual group. The news has said that the mosque he originally joined was a moderate muslim group. It may be that their were radical muslims also in this group that Walker met.
Walter went to a foreign country to study a foreign language not to fight against America. What happened after that is up to the US government to prove their case.
As a SRF member, I'm sure you can see yourself in the above picture. I'm sure when you started to study Yogananda's teachings, you didn't know that you signed on for a lifetime of celibacy and 'not living in the world', and that you would have to give up your religion of birth to get kriya, the higher teachings. I can only be thankful that I wasn't drawn to study moslem, only to end up in jail the rest of my life.
As it was for me, I studied SRF, and was harmed but definitely not as badly as Walker.

With freedoms come dangers.

rollingstone
Registered User
(2/17/02 6:59 am)
Reply 		Re: username
Yogananda never taught that householders should be celibate. Sex with your spouse almost defines the householder. Yoganada never taught that you must give up your religion to receive Kriya. Is SRF teaching this? Yognanada never taught: "not living in the world". It is possible for us to be IN the world but not OF the world, (sound familiar?) It means that we go to work, have our family, fight our battles, we live life, but always remember that we are just visiting here for a short while and our real home is with God. I think it would be helpful to SRF students if they read the literature that Yogananda based his teachings on. Most of this work has been translated into English. Look at Yognanada's teachings in the cultural context of Vedic India. Everyone enjoy your Sunday...don't forget to meditate or pray today.

Edited by: rollingstone at: 2/17/02 7:07:03 am
Shivanath
Unregistered User
(2/17/02 8:07 am)
Reply 		Trip to India
Confused - This world, this universe, is very real. Its just that the world of the senses is not the whole enchilada, so to speak. So I would advise that you take care of the basic things you mentioned...clothes, transportation, shelter. Continue your Kriya study and you have a balanced life, as another writer mentioned.

India holds a fascination for many of us, it is true. On the other hand, Yogananda brought the ancient knowledge to the West, so that you wouldn't have to struggle finding it in India. I had friends who gave up their self determination and followed various gurus and organizations, started wearing yoga "outfits", went to India, etc....and it seems to me, they were all following just another delusion...to emulate yet another externality, one with a "spiritual" gloss. Contrary to the X-files, the truth is not "out there", its "in here"...to be discovered daily through self enquiry and your inner journey of meditation.

As a householder, to live, as we are, in this world is a wondrous thing...to be grateful in each moment, day by day, this is devotion. By appreciating the Creator's creation, we thereby honor the Creator.

No Name Yet
Unregistered User
(2/17/02 10:02 am)
Reply 		Getting Kriya, Your Religion
RollingStone wrote:

Yoganada never taught that you must give up your religion to receive Kriya. Is SRF teaching this?

------------------------
I was very surprised to learn that is exactly what SRF teaches. When you read the Autobiography, you've got Lahiri Mahasaya giving Kriya to anyone without religious bias, it's inspiring. (He was so liberal he probably tipped the pizza guy with 4th Kriya!) The reality of how it works out with SRF is not so inspiring.

You get the lessons, though, and the very first lesson says something to this effect: the SRF lessons are now your religion.

Then you get the application for Kriya and it makes it clear in there that this is now your religion. You call the SRF headquarters and they explain that is indeed the case.

rollingstone
Registered User
(2/17/02 12:38 pm)
Reply 		Re: Getting Kriya, Your Religion
Hello All;

In the SRF Introduction to Self-Realization Fellowship Lessons, this issue is made very clear. I will not quote, so I can avoid copyright problems, ect. First point is that followers of all creeds may apply the SRF lessons, because they are common spiritual truths that help men develop the potential for a godly life. The next point is that all persons regardless of religious affiliation are welcome to study the lessons.

Then, it is noted that the teachings contained in the lessons are the formal religion of those who make SRF thier church. And that Kriya initiation is the acceptance of the SRF gurus and a pledge of spiritual loyalty to SRF and the gurus of SRF. Make your own conclusions.



Edited by: rollingstone at: 2/17/02 1:02:10 pm
Rei Beyrut
Registered User
(2/17/02 1:25 pm)
Reply 		Re: Should I forget about my trip to India?
Confused -
Many statements of yours lead me to think you scratched Master's teachings rather superficially... for instance, never would he have tought that just because life on this physical plane is of a reality inferior to God-consciousness, you do not have to meet the needs typical of that plane. He would never have allowed a disciple to wilfully become a case for social welfare! He was, from all I hear and read, a tremendously PRACTICAL man, who could give you valuable advice for even the least, littlest things. DO NOT NEGLECT YOUR DAY TO DAY DUTIES, would he tell you.
Second, if you measure the spiritual accomplishment of a country by the material achievements of its citizens, you are very probably on the wrong track. You may judge for yourself if the most wealthy societies on this planet are also the spiritually most evolved. I doubt it.
Third, if you have the conviction that this life is to have fun, and that there is no other end or purpose in it, you may be best advised to gat yourself a bullet in your brain ASAP. But that is certainly not what you meant!
My opinion: yes, there is such a thing as truth, and I have never ever read or heard of anyone expressing it so clearly, and in so plausibel terms, as Paramahansa Yogananda. Believe me, I am a most skeptical fellow - if the thing were not sound and round, I would have dumped it a long time ago.
Do not dump the teachings of SUCH value and depth just because some other guys were found to be hoaxes - and much less just because Indians are poorer than their fellow humans in the US.
I know for sure that PY was no hoax - that he may not have been exactly what SRF wants to make of him (a marble statue), but that he certainly was a true man of God.

PS.: just for fun, I would never consider living in the allegedly rich US - the food is just too bad. Just therefore, I would consider Brazil much wealthier than the US (certainly due to their spiritual accomplishments... harr harr..)

PS2 - I forgot to answer your question. Going to India would be a costly disappointment. In your current state your are so thirsty of insights, but at the same time so utterly confused that it would be better for you just to re-read the AY. It answers all your questions.

No Name Yet
Unregistered User
(2/17/02 3:51 pm)
Reply 		Getting Kriya, Your Religion
RollingStone wrote:

Then, it is noted that the teachings contained in the lessons are the formal religion of those who make SRF thier church. And that Kriya initiation is the acceptance of the SRF gurus and a pledge of spiritual loyalty to SRF and the gurus of SRF. Make your own conclusions.

----------------------------------------------

Thank you, Rolling Stone, for clarifying this further. You are exactly right, that is what it says.

Just one little point I'd like to make is that on the Kriya application one is signing to this statement: "I now become a member of Self-Realization Fellowship..." Going back to page 2 of the information that comes with the first lesson, you're warned this is coming: "Kriya...is given when students establish church-membership affiliation..."

Plus, on the application, one is offering "unconditional devotion and loyalty." Unconditional means no conditions whatsoever.

When I called and talked with someone at headquarters, a brother Kevalananda, he took that phrase and the phrase about membership and religion to mean: no other religion. So if you were once a Catholic, you could be so no longer.

I asked about exceptions and he didn't know of very many; ones he cited were some Catholics in South America who were so enculturated as Catholics that they were permitted to receive Kriya from SRF while maintaining their Catholic membership.

Anyway, the truth turned out that there are indeed other exceptions...but that's another story.

premdas
Registered User
(2/18/02 10:59 pm)
Reply 		Getting There
RB,

re: Your question about India.

I hear you really inquiring about the integrity and cost of the INNER journey as it relates to Yogananda's "new dispensation" of original Christianity of Jesus and Hinduism as taught by Krishna and rishis/sages.

Find your own path to God-Realization through finding someone already with it, or darned-near close! Doesn't have to be a perfected one, just someone/others closer to realization than you currently think yourself to be. If you feel drawn to Yogananda, pray to him and/or his line of masters for the right guide or channels. It has nothing to do w/SRF, just as believing in and following Christ is independent of the Catholic Church.

It has to do w/attunement and energy. PY: "The greater the will, the greater the energy. The greater the energy, the greater the magnetism." As Master would say, (paraphrasing) "Cry to God incessantly just like a spoiled baby. When She tries to assuage you with a rattle or toys, throw them down and rather insist on only Mother Herself. Accept no substitutes. And She can't resist your demands, She must come, if only because She knows you are Her own. It's Her job!

You'll draw God out with your will, energy, magnetism and His grace! (25% your will, 25% Guru and 50% God!)

Premdas

<< Prev Topic | Next Topic >>

Add Reply

Email This To a Friend Email This To a Friend
Topic Control Image Topic Commands
Click to receive email notification of replies Click to receive email notification of replies
Click to stop receiving email notification of replies Click to stop receiving email notification of replies
jump to:

- SRF Walrus - Dealing with my doubts -



Powered By ezboardŽ Ver. 7.32
Copyright Š1999-2005 ezboard, Inc.