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nagchampa2
Registered User
(12/1/03 5:05 am)
Reply 		Re: so disappointed and many doubts
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Edited by: nagchampa2 at: 12/23/03 7:51 am
nagchampa2
Registered User
(12/1/03 5:47 am)
Reply 		Re: so disappointed and many doubts
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Edited by: nagchampa2 at: 12/23/03 7:52 am
SerenityNow7
Registered User
(12/1/03 8:52 am)
Reply 		Re: so disappointed and many doubts
Nagchampa, I've sent you an email with some of my private thoughts. In general, I must say this is truly truly shocking. When did you learn of this? Is this the first time this information has been made public? And specifically what was the point of hypnotizing disciples?

What's that line from the Matrix...do you want to see how far down the rabbit hole goes? :(

nagchampa2
Registered User
(12/1/03 9:29 am)
Reply 		Re: so disappointed and many doubts
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Edited by: nagchampa2 at: 12/23/03 7:53 am
dawnrays
Registered User
(12/1/03 10:06 am)
Reply 		Re: so disappointed and many doubts
I think anybody who holds a person up to the unrealistic and false claims that srf does, is going to be disappointed.

I had problems with srf almost from the get go. I had before been attracted to and practiced "the natural religeon" or wicca and disliked all of the constraints and heirarchy, which reminded me of the Catholic Church.

Years after I joined I started having dreams encouraging me to leave srf and even Master. I even had a dream where a picture of Master turned into the devil. Master was sitting next to me then looking sad and despondent and I started crying.

You know, in the mature sense of the word, there really is no good or evil and in the wicca religeon, there is no devil. Why would I have a dream of an entity I did not believe in? Master himself attempted to warn me away from himself. When I finally did leave, I had a dream of waterskiing away from a temple with people standing around in handcuffs. I did not understand that one until I found walrus and realized that these people were monks, nuns, employees and members.

I think we cannot expect to believe in a fairy tale and not be disappointed and hurt. There is no evidence that anybody like srf's version of Master ever existed, ever will exist or is even meant to exist. I find perfect people to be annoying and usually fake in real life so there is no reason to believe somebody else's version. The only answer is to love unconditionally and to realize that even a person riddled with faults and inconsistancies, can love that way. It is a transforming power which has nothing to do with morals.

I buried my dad too nagchampa. Some people said that he was not worth my great love and devotion because he died in a state of financial and personal disgrace by worldly standards. That is not reason enough to turn on somebody who always loved you the best they could though. When you find out "the truth" about somebody and realize that you can still love them, despite they fact that they don't "deserve it" then that is the beginning of love. Unconditional love is the only love there is. All other forms or counterfeit and based on mutual usury and convenience.

If you are waiting for someone to love that way, you might have a long wait if you are looking for somebody who deserves it because nobody does. It's a gift.

nagchampa2
Registered User
(12/1/03 10:50 am)
Reply 		Re: so disappointed and many doubts
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Edited by: nagchampa2 at: 12/23/03 7:53 am
dawnrays
Registered User
(12/1/03 11:41 am)
Reply 		Re: so disappointed and many doubts
I was never really attracted to the srf yogananda because I could not relate to it. I started doing yoga techniques for health reasons and for the psychological benefits. I was never attracted even to having a guru/disciple relationship. My first srf group was back east and there were some very high souls there. Most of us were into other things like astrology and theosophy. My first great female role model was a "kitchen witch" and I found the eunich style of srf to be annoying. I even found Master's celebacy itself to be annoying. No, I was not attracted to srf's version of Master.

I only grew to love him later on when I realized he was not like that. The more I grew to love him, the more I grew to love myself as in my youth I was very hedonistic (especially for a woman) and I always loved white witchccraft. I found we had more and more in common.

I see many people here condemning any and all forms of organized religeon and some with good reason. Yet, you judge a person based on the honor codes of these very same belief systems. What gives? Perhaps Yogananda and saints in general can love us because they can see that we are no different from them (a grand realization!)

Anybody can love unconditionally, you don't have to be a guru. It is the right and privilege of every living creature. If you can't find a person whom you can love, sometimes it's easier to start with the beautiful, natural world which includes all life and elements. My dog is always there for me, in other words.

nagchampa2
Registered User
(12/1/03 1:24 pm)
Reply 		Re: so disappointed and many doubts
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Edited by: nagchampa2 at: 12/23/03 7:54 am
dawnrays
Registered User
(12/1/03 1:48 pm)
Reply 		Re: so disappointed and many doubts
I think you can only go by your own experiences and there is just so much a person can take, of course.

I think in an instance whereas you do not understand a person or else consider a person to be treacherous, it is correct to remove yourself from the situation. A habitually treacherous person will not benefit from your unconditional love because he/she is incapable of receiving it, let alone appreciating it (as in throwing pearls to swine) and so will only abuse you further if given the opportunity. Many people misinterpret the Bible in this way and so set themselves up for abuse. srf also abuses people in this way by setting them up psychologically to be victims.

Now if a basically good person makes a mistake, that's a different story. Generally the bigger they are, the harder they fall in that large minded, larger than life people (like Master) would probably make a few big mistakes, just like he made some huge contributions. These things go hand in hand and of course God uses our flaws and mistakes even to teach us and others. In this case the lesson being in my opinion none other than to not make a statue or "marblelize" a guru or anybody.

Can't you see the beauty in this? You are free to be yourself! If you are basically good and have good and pure motivations you will be fine! I am wondering why flaws are so hard to accept for some but I am thinking it is mostly people's unrealistic religeous expectations from thier Christian upbringings. I find the whole thing very balancing (these flaws and things) and even a little humorous.

One of the best pieces of advice I ever received was from a greeting card and it said "take yourself lightly!"

dawnrays
Registered User
(12/1/03 2:05 pm)
Reply 		Unconditional Love
On the unconditional love question, I believe there are some very severe tests in this life. Though I think I have been tested very severely, the hardest test was for me to love myself. That is everybody's hardest test and the lack of which (self love) is the root cause of most misery. Nobody is as hard on you as you are because nobody knows you like you do! It is very necessary to love and forgive yourself anything and without exception or reservation before you can move on to give love unconditionally to others. Think how hard it is for a person who has committed murder to do this and how much more inconceivable than the prospect of forgiving others! There are people on the street and in prison or are so far down into the hell of psychological denial that they are sociopaths and do not have normal consciences. Yet, someday they must face themselves, forgive themselves and move on. They must even love themselves! All of us have done terrible "unforgivable" type things in this or other lives. It makes no sense to condemn others and so impede our own spiritual progress and happiness.

SerenityNow7
Registered User
(12/1/03 4:08 pm)
Reply 		Re: so disappointed and many doubts
I shall not even attempt to respond to everything, it is beyond me! :)

But I will say this, to me it's not about love it's about Truth. Whether Yogananda took credit for books that he didn't write is a big issue to me. If he wasn't who he said he was this is huge - much more than SRF misrepresenting his legacy after his death. Also from what I've read so far SRF is not being truthful with people who want to become monastics about what they are getting into.

One thing I've learned during my own tests is without having the truth and acknowledging that truth to oneself, it is impossible to make good decisions. And it is good decisions that I'm looking to make.

ugizralrite
Registered User
(12/1/03 4:17 pm)
Reply 		Re: so disappointed and many doubts
I've said it before and I 'll keep saying that the ultimate blame for this seemingly unfortunate situation at SRF lies solely at the feet of God. If your thirst is for God, then you will dismiss the innumerable inconsistencies and paradoxes and move forward, ignoring and disposing of outmoded practices and associations. Yogananda was a master salesman with a masterly closing technique, "If you don't commit now, all will be lost for incarnations." To be fair, Yogananda in the AOY said that kriya was not necessary, just focusing on the third eye would get the job done, though not as quickly (to paraphrase). Most of daily life really focuses on the lower chakras, and compassion and intellect are considered functions of exceptional people, the kindly neighbor, the wise great-aunt. Contemplative natures are more rare still. What the SRF techniques do is to stimulate the higher chakras via EE, Aum, Hong Sau, and Kriya. These techniques are a means to an end. The guru is a means to an end. Pure consciousness is the goal. Everything else is arbitrary and can be replaced by other spiritually uplifting influences. Pure spiritual consciousness is driving this wagon and we are along for the ride, choosing to look for answers where we will. Eventually kriya must go, the guru must go, srf must go, our bodies must in death go, but pure consciousness, how can that go away? We have been drawn together here to question, to regroup, to seek alternatives, to repair, to seek understanding. My concern is for newcomers like serenitynow7, bsjones, and others who have hit a snag early on. There is hope and there are answers for us, "the stones would speak" and do, by virtue of their age and endurance. Existence is the guru, if we will but look and listen.

nagchampa2
Registered User
(12/1/03 5:09 pm)
Reply 		Re: so disappointed and many doubts
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Edited by: nagchampa2 at: 12/23/03 7:54 am
nagchampa2
Registered User
(12/1/03 5:29 pm)
Reply 		Re: so disappointed and many doubts
(This message was left blank)

Edited by: nagchampa2 at: 12/23/03 7:55 am
dawnrays
Registered User
(12/1/03 7:26 pm)
Reply 		Life on Earth
Oh grow up.

The truth is that Master was a human with flaws, just like everybody. If this is some kind of a truth that you can't face, then that's too bad because it's not going to change. I have yet to meet the perfect person and I'd rather have a dynamic teacher like Master than some Caspar Milktoast who was always nitpicking like some little old lady Sunday school teacher.

Aren't we all adults here? Do we not live in the 21st century and am I the only one who has access to the news or fox tv? Am I the only one who gets porno adds constantly in my email despite my many and vain attempts to stop them? That is life on earth and it is also "the truth".

Master point blank said he preferred an active and dynamic criminal with some will power to a luke warm ninny! The Bible itself says that if you're into that. "I will spew the luke warm out of my mouth!"

One time a devotee asked Master if there was such a thing as hell and he replied "where do you think you are now?"

If kriya works for you do it and if not don't do it. If it did work and you no longer want to do it, don't! If you want to leave him or it's a non-issue now, fine! But please no more gasp! He's human and I am shocked!

Real life is for grown ups so grow up!

nagchampa2
Registered User
(12/1/03 9:36 pm)
Reply 		Re: Life on Earth
(This message was left blank)

Edited by: nagchampa2 at: 12/23/03 7:56 am
soulcircle
Registered User
(12/1/03 9:46 pm)
Reply 		dawnrays
what web are you weaving

dawnrays
Registered User
(12/1/03 9:56 pm)
Reply 		Re: Life on Earth
And perhaps you should not view it as an "attack" when I say something negative about your post then.

I am making the suggestion that you grow up. There is nothing else to say other than I hope you find the true "Master" that you are looking for. I don't think this will happen as in my opinion all people have flaws of some kind.

The whole business of trying guru after guru to deal with your problems is a little imature in my opinion. We all have to live with the hand we are dealt in life and no guru can really change it. I think it's a little wiser and more mature and maybe even a test to see if we can try to see the good in people (and that would include our guru). As it is, I don't see the point in taking a parting shot (attack?) at somebody who's personally done you no harm, possibly some good and whose problems you don't really understand or seem to want to other than jumping on a bandwagon of somebody else's bad feelings.

dawnrays
Registered User
(12/1/03 9:59 pm)
Reply 		Re: dawnrays
Soul Circle,

I hope you don't view this as an "attack" either, but you have done nothing but whine for over 600 posts. Why don't you just get a life and stop worrying about Yogananda and srf if it irritates you so much?

nagchampa2
Registered User
(12/2/03 4:58 am)
Reply 		sourlcircle
(This message was left blank)

Edited by: nagchampa2 at: 12/23/03 7:56 am
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