where does all the money go?

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SRF Walrus > Troubling Waste > where does all the money go?
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Paramadas Registered User (9/28/03 10:00 pm) Reply	where does all the money go? Some months ago I met a group of very wealthy devotees who said they were contributing significantly to SRF, in the millions. When I heard that cutbacks for all departments would approach 40% for this year, I started asking myself, where does all the money go? Is there any accountability for our donations? I hate to think that someone at Mother Center could be siphoning off the funds and putting them into a private account, but that possibility needs to be addressed. If this is the case, it would certainly not be the first time that a religious organization was taken to the cleaners, and I think I am correct in saying that, in every case where this has happened to other churches, the problem began with secrecy and a lack of accountability. I do not even know whether there is a proper public accounting of donations to SRF. Can anyone comment on this?
ranger20 Registered User (9/29/03 9:30 am) Reply	Re: where does all the money go? Lately I've been attending a church in our neighborhood that has a very welcoming, family feel to it. When I first asked about some of their activities, they gave me some phamplets and one of the pastors very causually said "You might find this interesting." He reached into a cupboard in the social hall and pulled out a copy of the 2002 annual report, with full financial disclosure in it. I was going to add a sarcastic comment involving the phrase "bullock cart," but you can make up your own. I'm just curious about your statement that "cutbacks for all departments would approach 40% for this year." Given the seeming complete secrecy surrounding SRF business practices, how reliable is your source?
Paramadas Registered User (9/29/03 9:56 am) Reply	Re: where does all the money go? Regarding the reliability of my source, it's 100% reliable. Brother Vishwananda himself. Interesting about your local church that's being so straightforward and forthcoming about its finances. Care to tell us which denomination? It would be nice to show SRF examples of "right behavior", financially speaking.
ranger20 Registered User (9/29/03 10:59 am) Reply	Re: where does all the money go? *Quote:* Interesting about your local church that's being so straightforward and forthcoming about its finances. Care to tell us which denomination? It would be nice to show SRF examples of "right behavior", financially speaking. Episcopal. Over the last year I've visited other denominations, and I get the impression that it's often the norm. A few years back I knew the treasurer of a Methodist church. He was quite scrupulous being accountable, at least to the managing council which was elected from the congregation. Of course the finances of a single small church are probably not very analagous to the finances of a worldwide denomination, but I think we're talking of a spirit of openness and trust. Edited by: ranger20 at: 9/29/03 3:09 pm
KS Registered User (9/29/03 7:46 pm) Reply	Re: where does all the money go? Paramadas, You must be new to the Walrus? The waste is legendary within SRF. Money means nothing to them. Quite a few people feel SRF = Guru and they are more than willing to leave large sums to help their own spiritual lives. They are foolish. The AY is full of stories of people being fooled. They didn’t read it carefully. Is the 40% figure accurate? Yes. SRF leaks information from many seams. This was not the case in the past. Ten years ago they started hiring a lot of members. Having so many members around that see what SRF is really like creates the leaky environment. Being hyper-secret paranoid beings, the bad ladies in charge of SRF see this as a threat. Of course it IS a threat since the place is not what it claims to be. The 40% layoff figure is the plan because they want to cut out the members (leaks), not because they are short of money. That is just an excuse. SRF is laying off members but hiring much more expensive non-members to do some of the same jobs. They laid off people at the publication building and then hired an outside company to take orders for SRF and do shipping. They are doing the same thing in their computer department. They don’t even allow the hiring of members in the legal department anymore. Membership is down, sales are down and they are not even trying to do many tours anymore. Yet they claim to be growing growing growing. And the money keeps coming to them in the form of donations. People are helping to fund the degradation of Master’s work by promoting this pretender Guru-replacement organization. We wish people would wake up.
Paramadas Registered User (10/3/03 9:06 pm) Reply	Re: where does all the money go? To KS and all, Please be careful with facts and figures. What I said, and what Bro. Vishwananda said publicly, was that there would be financial cutbacks, not layoffs, up to 40%, in all departments. Furthermore, it is a misrepresentation to say that this information was "leaked," and the use of such inflamatory (not to mention inaccurate) language does nothing to foster goodwill or Godliness (my opinion). My purpose in starting this thread was to raise a question that might turn some heads in SRF. I have no ability to initiate an investigation into SRF's finances, to see if money "turns up missing", but there may well be others who read this forum who do have that ability, and my post was primarily directed to them. I admit this is a rather odd way to try to serve Master's organization, but I'll try anything that works. I just hope that someone in SRF has the inquisitiveness to pursue this, and the humility to accept that financial misdealings are possible. Speaking of which, I recall an instance during Master's life in which an Indian devotee ran away with much of SRF's money. Without any question, the Guru could have forseen this devotee's intentions and stopped him, but I suspect that Master did not do so in order to provide a lesson to us in future generations. They say that we should live not merely by Guru's words, but by his deeds as well, and He may be telling us that such financial finagling is possible anytime and we should be vigilant against it. The remainder of this story about Master and the Indian embezzler is actually very touching and is worth retelling, for those devotees who may not know it. Master refused to prosecute the wrongdoer, but instead sent word to India of Master's forgiveness. Master was, however, financially destitute, and he went to the desert to pray, saying to Divine Mother that he did not care to run the organization if She would not uphold it financially. Master reported that Divine Mother came to him and said, "I will be your stocks and bonds." According to one of the senior monastics who was counselling me on money issues, it was that vision of Divine Mother which prompted Guruji to write the lovely song, "I give you my soul call" (p. 43 of cosmic chants), because Master saw Divine Mother coming out of the sky and emanating from all space. If I've got my facts right, it was shortly after this incident that Master met Rajarsi and the organization found firmer financial footing. ANYWAY, the point of the story was that Master may well have been telling future generations of devotees to be on the guard against unscrupulous embezzlers.
KS Registered User (10/4/03 5:36 am) Reply	Controlling their reputation Paramadas, Don’t worry about labeling things as (your opinion). This is what this board is for. A smart reader will give all facts a reality check and realize many “facts” are just opinions. That doesn’t mean they are not right but that is the nature of a board like this. Sorry to label them leaks but the information I mentioned is considered a leak by SRF. This is a major cause of concern for SRF. Vish feels he is honorable and is trying to be honest in the things he does and would never “leak” something. That is good for him. He will collapse of mental problems soon as a result of the twisted existence he is forced to live. He is being used by the bad ladies. Vish may have told you 40% cuts in finances but that is either just the public spin, how he was told to describe it, or you misunderstood what you told him. They are in fact laying off 40% of the people. This will certainly help with expenses. However, in many cases they are having the same work done by outside people at a higher cost. Removing people is what they refer to as simplification. They think they are simplifying their lives (i.e. the lives of the monastics… the lives of the members don’t matter to them). This will leave fewer people for the powerful monastics to manage and worry about. They are so stupid they think this will make their lives easier. They assume that outside people will just do the jobs correctly and be honest with them, unlike the members they dislike having around. They have been cheated by outside people on several occasions but do they learn? Since money is no object to them, it is control of their reputation they are after, this makes sense. Controlling their reputation and maintaining the illusion of representing Master is what allows them to survive. Ask yourself why this information should all be secret? Why don’t they publish the cutbacks in the NEWS section of the SRF magazine or in some other form? Why don’t they publish the state of the massive accounting system blunder? Why not list how many times they have been sued by former monastics and employees?
Paramadas Registered User (10/4/03 1:13 pm) Reply	Re: Controlling their reputation To KS and all, I have a concern about your posts, and that is your continual barrage of negativity. Virtually every statement you make about SRF is negative in every one of your posts to the Walrus. You may recall that the Master did not approve of such an attitude and on at least one occasion (probably more) insisted that a devotee who was bad-mouthing someone say an equal number of things positive about that person. This is a technique used very successfully in the ashram, and I recommend it to you now. I would dearly love to hear you search your heart to find positive things to say about SRF and your so-called "bad ladies." Do not be misled, I am fully aware of their misdeeds, and I am not one of those two-dimensional, black and white sort of folks who cries, "my country, right or wrong, my country." However, the therapeutic value of positive thinking is well documented scientifically. Personally, I can say that some of these 'bad ladies' have provided me with invaluable insights into life on many levels on many occasions, more than I can count. When I felt I was going insane with grief, they lifted me up, gave me hope. When I needed advice about a financial merger, I received wise counsel. When doubts crowded out the Guru, they dispelled the clouds with such sweetness that left no room for doubt. Sure, they have made serious mistakes, but so have I (more than I can count) and human beings, and the organizations they create, are complicated affairs, and a simple denunciation of the wrongs is ineffectual in creating positive change. Mark that well, all of you. Simple complaining, kvetching, bellyaching, will NOT create positive change. Brother Bhaktananda gave us the most profound advice when he said, "If you have to criticize, use the 'sandwich' technique: praise, criticism, praise." If you, KS, or any of the others in the Walrus, want to simply kvetch, then knock yourselves out, but you will only be talking to each other, and not creating anything lasting or positive. If you truely care about Master's work, then use the sandwich technique. I dare you.
KS Registered User (10/4/03 9:26 pm) Reply	Re: Controlling their reputation Duh! Yes we want to kvetch and yes everything I say about SRF is negative. I believe they are doing a great harm to Master’s work. Note that I don’t believe they ARE Master’s work mind you, they are a temporary cancer on his work. I will say that a great many SRF people I have known are really wonderful people. They have little knowledge of what SRF really is and are attracted to Master. They are fooled into thinking SRF = Master. Big mistake. But still, they are wonderful people. Of course another large segment of SRF people are spiritually proud people with serious problems. Yes, we want to kvetch and we realize we are only talking to each other. That is the purpose of the board. We want to analyze and think through the mess we found and how it affected our lives. Many are in some degree of recovery from the experience of that cult and it is healthy and natural to want to talk to others who have been through that experience. You may not belong here? Let us talk it out?
Borg108 Registered User (10/6/03 10:48 am) Reply	Re: Controlling their reputation KS and Paramadas, FWIW, I agree with you both. It's good to keep a balance to our POV, and it's good to explore truth wherever it may take us. I enjoy reading posts by you both, even though I may not always agree completely with their content or tone. One thing we can do here is set a good example of openness and acceptance of our somewhat diverse opinions, as opposed to the conservative, closed, and narrow POV that we have labored under for so long with SRF.
thatpilgrim Registered User (10/7/03 9:29 am) Reply	Re: Controlling their reputation KS- you said *Quote:* Why not list how many times they have been sued by former monastics and employees? How many times have they been sued? I've just heard of one.
member108 Registered User (10/7/03 10:40 pm) Reply	Re: Controlling their reputation All, I don't know what you all have heard. We could all combine our lists of lawsuits but those cases I know of do not want the publicity. I suspect the number of times they have been sued is zero. The number of times srf has been called by lawyers, threatened on behalf of an employee or former monastic, then turned over a bunch of cash is higher. I know of five people myself. In addition it is my understanding that legal threats from ex-monastics caused srf to start giving monastics the cash (hush money) they now get when they leave. Each one of these probably would have resulted in an exchange of legal letters and a payoff so we might add in another 25 monastics to that count?
xmonk Registered User (10/8/03 5:57 am) Reply	Re: Controlling their reputation Well, I can tell you of one lawsuit which has been in progress against SRF and has been going on for years. It is in Atlanta and it involves millions. For those who are not on the inside at SRF, there are many such things that go on constantly, and the people in the temples are just not aware of them. Just be aware that SRF is not what it appears to be from a distance. If you think that lawsuits and payoffs are not happening, you are truly fooling yourself.
thatpilgrim Registered User (10/8/03 8:35 am) Reply	Re: Controlling their reputation *Quote:* Well, I can tell you of one lawsuit which has been in progress against SRF and has been going on for years. It is in Atlanta and it involves millions. For those who are not on the inside at SRF, there are many such things that go on constantly, and the people in the temples are just not aware of them. Just be aware that SRF is not what it appears to be from a distance. If you think that lawsuits and payoffs are not happening, you are truly fooling yourself. Like many, I know that lawsuits are happening. I believe it would help people to have more details of these lawsuits and payoffs. I understand that the payoffs are usually by nature confidential, so names and all the details probably can't be shared. Some generalities would help all of us. As for lawsuits- case numbers, names, the specific court where the lawsuit was filed, etc. would be very helpful. These are public information. If anyone has the specifics, would you please post them here? These things can be researched on the internet, or locally by Walri who live in the jurisdiction where the lawsuit was filed. Specific, verifiable, in-the-public-record behavior by SRF and their lawyers might convince some of the doubters who like to see evidence that is more concrete. A new section of the website, or at least a new thread for each lawsuit might also be a good addition to the Walrus. Edited by: thatpilgrim at: 10/8/03 8:41 am
KS Registered User (10/8/03 6:57 pm) Reply	Lawsuits Most of the payoffs I am aware of involve the treatment of employees. These do not reach the lawsuit phase since SRF knows it is in the wrong and their lawyers advise them just to settle. SRF has been caught resisting paying overtime and bending employee rules, wrongful termination, sexual harassment, things like that. In addition I know of members who have left a great deal of money to SRF when they die and had their families sue to keep that from happening. SRF has a team which spends a lot of time encouraging this type of donation. Concerning the treatment of employees, SRF tries to get away with things a normal company would NEVER attempt. They are used to working in a slave/monastic environment where people just do what they are told. They arrogantly feel they can do what they like. One in five employees mistreated actually gets so upset they see a lawyer. The result now is that SRF is just tired of having SRF members around and is downsizing to resolve the problem.
thatpilgrim Registered User (10/9/03 3:19 pm) Reply	Re: Controlling their reputation xmonk: *Quote:* Well, I can tell you of one lawsuit which has been in progress against SRF and has been going on for years. It is in Atlanta and it involves millions. Do you have any details- like the name of the person or the jurisdiction? Do you know of any other lawsuits? Or payoffs that you can talk about?
xmonk Registered User (10/10/03 5:42 am) Reply	Re: Controlling their reputation Yes, I do. I can cite many instances of such things, however they involve names of people which I do not believe deserve being brought out here. My only intent is to reveal the fact that such things are, and have been going on. As KS has said, virtually all such cases involve mistreatment of monastics and employees of SRF. When these people are "paid off", they must sign documents that prohibit them from disclosing such information under the threat of being taken to court, which involves a lot of expense. SRF has some pretty savvy lawyers on retainer who know how to cover their tracks and keep everything hushed up. Edited by: xmonk at: 10/10/03 5:44 am
username Registered User (10/10/03 6:02 am) Reply	Re: Controlling their reputation I believe lawsuits would need to be filed in the court where the transactions occurred, so for mother center, hollywood and lake shrine that would be Los Angeles Superior Court. The court records are public, anyone can go down there and look them up. For other temples, it would be the court system where the temple is located - again, just go to the courts building and look SRF up in the court's files. People at the court buildings will tell you how to do this. Probably the same for service centers. So..... go and report back.... This of course will not show lawsuits threatened..
thatpilgrim Registered User (10/10/03 8:20 am) Reply	Re: Controlling their reputation *Quote:* xmonk: Yes, I do. I can cite many instances of such things, however they involve names of people which I do not believe deserve being brought out here. My only intent is to reveal the fact that such things are, and have been going on. I understand. In these cases, some more details, without revealing names, might be helpful. *Quote:* username: I believe lawsuits would need to be filed in the court where the transactions occurred, so for mother center, hollywood and lake shrine that would be Los Angeles Superior Court. The court records are public, anyone can go down there and look them up. Anyone willing to do research in the LA area? *Quote:* username: This of course will not show lawsuits threatened.. Sometimes it will. The SRF settlement with Patricia Lyons, over her charges of harassment, came only after she filed papers. These papers are on record- I've seen a copy of the official court filings, but do not have them. They were extremely revealing. In this case, the publication of those papers here might be harmful to some good people (and maybe not, I can't judge). The point being- sometimes papers need to be filed in order for an organization to take a threat seriously. Then the papers are never mentioned again, but remain in the court records. Are there other filings on record in LA? Georgia? Edited by: thatpilgrim at: 10/10/03 8:25 am

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