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SRF Walrus

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SRF Walrus > Treatment of Members/Monastics > Hiding from the Membership
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Crog Unregistered User (11/7/01 9:49 pm) Reply	Hiding from the Membership Something that has always bothered me is the fact that Daya and others hide from the membership, from the employees, and even from their fellow monastics. Even the monastics never see them. Why is this? 20 years ago I was told they were too busy, or too old, or too something. They should not be in our low vibrations or we don’t know how to act in their company. I have even been told I was “filled with ego” for even suggesting I should be able to see daya! Since the simplest explanation is often the correct one, I am assuming that they have something to hide. They are not God-realized confident leaders filled with the joy of God all the time. They have to put on a show, and that is uncomfortable and a burden. They are pretty isolated now and feel that most of the membership has bought their reasons for staying hidden. So hide they will. Daya didn’t even come to Convocation this year. Too sick? What was the excuse? And yet she was seen carrying suitcases of money into a bank with some of the other nuns just days before convocation. Very interesting. Also, why does Anandamoy want to hide. Is it just me or does he seem to not really like anyone?
KS Unregistered User (11/27/01 7:30 pm) Reply	Agree I agree. Your simple explaination is correct. They have something to hide and it is probably their attitude toward us. I also think they just don't feel it is necessary. The members are a bother, and many are dangerous or disruptive. Notice the extensive security provided when ever Daya Mata goes out in public around members. Why is this? The Mayor of Los Angeles has less security. The ushers fight us off and hold us back as if she were a rock star or people were going to hurt her. I challenge someone to come up with a positive devotional reason why they hide from us. No, it is not because they are old. My grandmother was old. And they have been hidding from us 40 years. The natives are getting restless.
Spi Unregistered User (11/30/01 8:40 am) Reply	Ma Hiding I think it is pitiful that Ma and they others hide from the members. Over the years I have heard the following excuses: -- She is too busy to see us. (But not to busy to see large donors and famous people) -- She is too old and feeble. Of course the week before convocation someone saw her helping nuns carry suitcases into a bank, but that is different. She has been too old for 20 years? She should step down if she is too old. -- She is at such a high vibration that she doesn’t want to be around normal (lowly) people. -- We should not want to see her, she is not the focus of the work. Then why the books and pictures and hero worship? Why the guards at events? -- People would mob her due to her tremendous vibration. Well that has never happened. People at Convo calmly sit in their seats and her real address was published in the paper several times in the last few years (200 South Canon Avenue, Sierra Madre) and there has been no rush to see her. The real reasons they hide from us are pretty disappointing.
Gray beard Registered User (12/13/01 2:32 pm) Reply	Re: Ma Hiding I too often wonder why the direct disciples hide from the members. I admit it has angered me at times, especially when I compare Master's habit of seeing anyone who made an appointment, willingly trying to help however he could. He had at least or probably more on his mind in terms of the work etc. that Daya or Mrinilini or Mukti or Uma or any of the rest ever have/had. He was responsible for the spiritual training/life of all those who'd come to him, plus running the show of the organization always trying to broaden the work to include Yoga schools in USA, Brotherhood Colonies etc.. He wasn't content to rest upon the laurels of the fruit of his work, no up to the end he was dictating commentaries and taking care to fulfill all the dictates of duty that he'd been pressed to by his Masters. So if he could take time to see all those who made their way to him how then can the current president and all the rest hide and apparently feel so justified in doing so. If this path is so strenous that even those who are claimed to be "God realized" have to protect themselves from the worldy vibes of the common folk what does that say about the kriya path as promulgated by today's leaders. While it is of course important to choose one's associates with care, it doesn't follow that Daya and the rest have to protect themselves due to the fact that the people who'd have the most interest in being with them more are already devotees and therefore represent little or no harm to them. In discussion with other devotees it was suggested to me that Daya doesn't make herself available to the members because they would 'overpower her, that this has almost happened at convocation, implying therefore that it is for her safety alone that she hides. But again Yoganandaji was far and away more magnetic than any of his disciples, he spoke continuously for years going city to city alone or with a few aides and he didn't suffer harm, even in those times of racial segragation and ignorance. He fearlessly worked for God tirelessly unconcerned about his safety believing that His Father would protect him, as indeed He did. It is apparent to me that the Board is hiding, consciously hiding from the members. It is a sad state of affairs particularly when one sees them being promoted as spiritual spokespersons, implying that they too have attained the Ultimate State of Awareness. I don't buy it. If they have then they would want to be with the people, for that is where they could most completely offer their spirituality freely.
OpenMinded Registered User (12/28/01 1:33 pm) Reply	Re: Ma Hiding This particular thread and this whole site in general is very interesting. I have a theory about the reason the monastics hide. I took Kriya initiation from SRF some years ago and Ive experienced a whole range of stuff - some very wonderful and some utterly awful and depressing experiences as a result of expanding my consciousness. Here are a few clues Ive strung together from a range of sources. One is Muktananda's book "The Play of Consciousness". There is a chapter toward the end in which he describes his visit to Siddhaloka, the world of the siddhas. On Siddhaloka he describes seeing groups of siddhas seated in meditation here and there. All are motionless and have their eyes closed. Each one also has a totally individually designed little hut. Also, the men and women siddhas are in seperate areas. You would think that in the heaven of heavens there would be nothing but the purest form of social interaction with these perfected souls beholding only the One God within each other but no, they are all seated in solitary meditation and each has his/her own house to live in and the "sexes" segregated. Next clue is Shankara's statement in his famous treatise "Vivekachudamani" or "Jewel of wisdom". In it he says something to the effect of a man of realization as taking pleasure in his own Self and constantly seeking solitude to be alone within. Another clue is what Master said to Rajarsi in his latter days. He basically tells him that he should now stay mainly in the Self and come down only once in a little while to be in the world. Another poignant expression of what Im driving at is what I read as a quote from the recently departed George Harrison who was a long time SRF devotee and Kriyaban. He said that he had reached a point in his meditations where he couldnt relate to anyone anymore. Not his friends, his family or anyone. My theory is that one of the necessary "evils" or outcomes of a high degree of Self-realization is the total detachment from form and manifestation and the "desire" to be locked only in that immobile state of samadhi, even if it is Nirvikalpa and therefore does not require the body to be in the immobile trance state. Ive emphasized the word desire because I dont want to give the impression of a binding and thus reincarnation-making desire. Perhaps this is part of what afflicts the monastics at SRF. We have evidence that even Master, who is considered to be an avatar, threatened to walk out of the work, a work he was entrusted with by the Gurus and by God, numerous times if he did not receive the personal sucour and experience of the Divine in a moment of perceived seperation. How much more this kind of yearning to leave behind all this maya must affect the senior monastics, who by now must surely have attained something in their sadhanas. It may not necessarily be anything personal on their part that they at times despise having to move about and interact with souls on a generally "lower" level of vibration. They would probably be the first to point out that it isnt the people themselves they cannot endure (since Master's concept of the eternal nugget of gold covered by the mud of ignorance is by now firmly etched in their understanding), but the very notion of being in duality when they have already penetrated to that land beyond their dreams. Perhaps this is how the true greatness of enlightened beings is to be measured in regard to one another - in the capacity they manifest of being able to dwell in duality while at the same time enjoying the state of solitary union with God. Souls like Master, who served the work for so many years, long after he had attained the Cosmic Vision, showed a tremendous capacity; one that the SRF monastics are striving (though not perfectly) to live up to. And why is that not surprising, they are not avatars after all...merely siddhas Another example: there is a good book called "Daughter of Fire" by the woman saint Ireena Tweedie. She became the disciple, late in life, of one of the greatest sufi saints of modern times, Bhai Sahib. At first he would not accept her. But she was so struck by his spiritual aura that she would not go away. She lived like a social outcast near his home for a long time before he compassionately undertook what she admits was a mammoth task of spiritual discipline, since she was already old at the time and had been scarred by what she herself considered a hideous worldliness. She described many of the looks he gave her as nothing other than grimaces of disgust, when he had lowered his perception to that of the physical world and had to deal with what must have been the oppresive task of her development along with the usual stresses of living as a poor householder with a large family. Then there is what I have experienced in my relatively short and futile attempts at sadhana. My heart has literally ached for God ever since I read about Master when I was 13. Since then I have experienced many things, including an expansion of consciousness so utterly unexpected as to have been overwhelming and terrifying. Ive experienced powers that come from an awakened kundalini and also the paralyzing fear that came with an unchecked subconscious in combination with an awakened kundalini. And this was all after I had vouchsafed an inner response from the one form which my heart at the time knew could save me from spiralling into insanity, the outcome of a lack of perceived support in my consciousness, the form of my beloved ishta Babaji. So go figure...Master said that if one hears the voice of Spirit just once he is on the way to the highest experiences. Well I heard that voice, but that didnt necessarily save me from years of tests and tribulations. And what can I offer now as testimony to this theory I have been propounding throughout this post? Only that I have an inexpressible love for all people and things but one that seems to flow into me only when I have that solitude, that sanctuary of stillness and silence within. Somehow, as warmhearted as I know myself to be, it gets stunted and distracted when I am moving in the world. It is no fault of anyone else, I understand that, but its almost as if everyone, being a reflection of the Only One, on some deep primal level, will not be satisfied with anything else than the total annihilation of manifest form, of vibration. Do any of you get what Im trying to say? Please someone respond to this post so I dont feel so lonely!!
Been there Unregistered User (12/28/01 3:20 pm) Reply	To Openminded Hope this helps: You might consider that any practice that leads you to experience God brings goodness, not any form of unpleasantness. So whatever you are practicing that brings you any anxiety or ill feeling -- maybe lay off for awhile and just concentrate on God's love. As far as the senior monastics are concerned, in my experience, they are just human beings like the rest of us. All of us make mistakes, all of us do the best we can with what we have, all of us have something to learn.
pschuppe Registered User (12/28/01 8:34 pm) Reply	Hiding I second the motion. Let your inner peace and deep calmness be your guide. I, too have heard of a number of people who had frightening experiences of kundalini. (And I had one of these myself early on in my practice of yoga postures.) Even Master occasionally had frightening experiences, but with Guru's grace he came through them. Seems like Divine Mother wants to keep things interesting sometimes. You're not alone! You have my and everyone here's best wishes and prayers for your highest good. Peace, ps
Gray beard Registered User (12/28/01 9:22 pm) Reply	Re: Ma Hiding Hey Open-minded, I really enjoyed reading your thoughts on the subject of the monastics and their 'hiding' from the layity. I still believe that the senior monastics, particuarly the ones who personally knew Master, should appear in public more often. I don't mean hosting people in intimate little tea parties or such, but instead scheduling regular sat-sangs or kirtan or public lectures even if they have to move the event to an off-site room. It would do much to bring the two main threads of Master's work, the monastic and the householder, together, tear down some walls and let the fresh breeze of unity blow through the current state of blockage. Frankly I don't personally put much stock in Swami Muktananda's writings. I was at an event in 1970 with Ram Dass and Muktananda. He came off as an arrogant individual to me without any of the warmth or sweetness associated with our guru. But that's just my perception, valid perhaps only to me. I've bought his book you've referred to at a used bookstore and was only able to get a short way through before putting it down. Plus there are some very nasty things being said about this 'realized being' on the internet which calls into question the amount of realization he did indeed have. I won't go further into this topic except to say that if true it would be hard to believe him to be a saint, much less a realized being. Re-read Sri Yukteswarji's description of Hiryanloka, the high astral heaven and it doesn't have any of the traits you've described Muktananda describing. True you said Muktananda was talking about something called the 'siddhaloka'; which I've never heard of, but it must be the 'causal plane' that Master describes? At that point, at that level of realization are beings still defined by sexuality? They are so close to eternal release that all duality must seem nothing more than a dream. Hard to believe they must be segregated by gender, those pure souls. I don't consider myself anything more than a devotee so it is hard to comment knowledgably about the spiritual experiences you describe. I know that in the kriya lessons the point is made very strongly that the devotee shouldn't fear the arousal of the kundalini. That doesn't mean that one doesn't have to understand how to work with kundalini; the various bodily contortions, the expanded consciousness, the released deep mental states (both positive and negative) which suddenly burst through the flimsy layer of everyday awareness. But again the point is made in the lessons that this is natural and without harm. I think that part of the problem is that we are so focused on the mind as being light only. That's not true for we all have a shadow which is unconscious to our everyday persona, and the shadow plays a direct role in our lives whether we wish it to or not. To be on the spiritual path and seek awakening is to come into contact with the unconscious parts of ourselves, to understand the primal power of the darkness within us all. The cast-offed, unliked, embarrassing parts of our inner selves that we work so hard to hide with our persona's, our masks that we unconsciously put on to interact with others in the world. So perhaps part of the trouble is having to deal with and understand those repressed parts of ourselves that hide both our darkness and the hidden secret power therein. And if the higher monastics have indeed made that journey it would seem, to this devotee at least, that they have attained a state of awareness from which they cannot be bothered spiritually or psychologically by interaction with other devotee's who happen to live in the world. If they are bothered it indicates to me that they've not completed their own journeys. For if the shadow isn't integrated fully it frequently is projected onto others, and for the monks and nuns to have to hide might be reason enough to believe their still in the projecting stage of mental and spiritual development; you know, "oh those members with their demands it's all so draining," or "those members just want to suck all my energy out of me." To see a realized being who doesn't have to play those projected mental games any longer just look at Ammachi, the "hugging Ma" who sometimes spends 24 hours straight hugging each and every person who comes to her for darshan. People say that she is as fresh, peaceful, and joyous at the end of these events as she is before. Now that is an example of someone who has transcended all limited mental states of development, and who has fully integrated herself within as the Atman, seeing each soul as a reflection of Brahman, of herself. That was the state of our Master, unafraid to meet anyone, open to all, sharing God's direct love and realization unfailingly, unselfishly. "Who tells me Thou are Dark? O my Mother Divine"
chuckle Unregistered User (12/28/01 10:47 pm) Reply	Some thoughts on the dynamics of hiding A very interesting discussion. I remember, back in the late 70s, attending a Christmas satsanga with Daya Mata at the Biltmore. The Biltmore Bowl was packed, and after her talk, Daya Mata took a walk up and down the aisles. What a scene! Frightening, bizarre, saddening. Bro. Paramananda (then Br. Bruce) led her around with her entourage, and people were literally throwing themselves at her to touch her, to get a blessing. They were kneeling in front of her, bowing right to the floor. It is was close to a mob scene. This was my first experience of this in SRF and I found it frightening and somewhat repulsive because many of the devotees seemed so greedy and grasping. Br. Bruce had to repeatedly ask people to back off, to show some respect, and to let her get through. I caught his eye at one point and he looked dazed and saddened, as if he was thinking, "This isn't the way it should be." I wonder if was because of experiences like this that the heavy security was put into place. A friend who has served as an usher at the Convos told me some interesting things. He said, as we know, that the actual day of Daya Mata's satsangs was always kept sort of secret, and knowledge of the timing just sort of leaked out. And then people would line up for hours beforehand. My friend worked in the Pasadena Ballroom and said some people would be very upset when they weren't able to get tickets to go to the California Ballroom where Daya Mata was. People would be desperate, it seemed to be in her physical presence. This is a weird dynamic, and it seems to me that this enhances the feeling of separation from the Guru and from God. As does all the hiding. We in SRF should abolish this undue worshipping of the president. Yes, show the president the respect due to any leader, but don't allow this fawning worship which brings out some of our worst qualities. Then we can get rid of all the security. We've all created an entire aura of specialness around the senior monastics that is misplaced. I don't know that it's important to blame anyone about this, but we should do our best to get rid of it. Bro. Anandamoy says one of the biggest delusions he sees in devotees is the idea that God and Guru are far away. But I think we in SRF have allowed these feelings of separation to emerge out of our idolization of the senior and "direct" (I hate that term) disciples. One monastic who never hides is Bro. Bhaktananda. I've been to three class series he has given in other cities and each time he gave so much of his time. He counseled into the late hours of the evening, gave additional classes of his own volition, and was always open to suggestions on how he could serve. A real classy servant of Master, he is. And as humble as could be.
Gray beard Registered User (12/29/01 7:07 pm) Reply	Re: Some thoughts on the dynamics of hiding Really good points Chuckle. I agree with you that there exists an unwholesome attraction to Daya Mata. The question is why, and why is it acted-out with the type of mindless abandon that you've detailed. With the growth of the work, centers in all the states and in many countries around the world, the devotee's learn two things. One is the story of Master, along with the sadhana and teachings he gave to his disciples (all of us). The second is the president is his representative here on earth, hand-picked by him the story goes, and as such enjoys profound and complete attunement with him via disembodied contact attained through the president's exalted state of awareness. Thus the president is the Master (well not really, but that's a distinction that seems less and less concrete these days). At least she has made no overt effort to dissuade this type of transference. At the temples one can hear stories of "Ma" that compete with stories of Master e.g. "I saw Ma this week and she said...." implying thereby that the monk equates seeing Daya Mata as seeing the Master. This 'amplification' of the role of the president is further evidenced by the plethora of books, tapes, letters, magazine articles (with attendent pictures prominently placed) etc. She is the Sanga-mata, Sri, Reverend Mother etc. etc. etc. This only adds to the legend of the president in the minds of the devotees. And when one has the chance to actually see and hear her, well that's as close to the Master as most people will ever get in this world; especially with the type of behavior you've described happening at Convocation time, with the members traveling from all over the globe to attend, hoping against hope that "Ma" will appear during the week. It's an emotional event which only adds to the 'halo' that attends the president's appearance (see the video: Security in a Changing World; observe how Brother Anandmoy so breathlessly tells the audience to be sure to tune into the Revered Mother's auspious comments, that she's deigned to impart to the waiting masses for their eternal upliftment, just before the highly-expectant arrival of the Mother's appearance, which is done theatrically to heighten the importance of her presence). And all the board members prominently displayed there in the front row imparts a special kind of benediction upon the president that the members unfailingly pick up upon, adding to her prestige and power. So maybe Daya Mata in her advanced years isn't physically able to do many public appearances anymore and that is something that I understand, plus she has spent her years serving so well and giving her life to the work that she has earned the right to some private seclusion. Yet, where is Mrinilini, Uma and the other women board members? Anandamoy is a minister at the temples (at least he was the last time I checked), and as you've pointed out Brother Bhaktananda ( who for some reason isn't on the board of directors) is a beacon of light in Hollywood and shows through his lifelong example how a representive of Master's ashram should conduct theirselves; giving services weekly, counseling the members, conducting all the functions that are required of the ministers. Remember, too, that Dr. Lewis lectured for years at the Hollywood and San Diego temples. He also started, and frequently lead, the Friday night 3 hour meditations at the Hollywood Temple. In other words, out and about with the members sharing the higher vibrations of his spiritual attainment and through that his attunement with the Master with those who most need it, the householders who daily face the battle of living the spiritual life as taught by our guru.
OpenMinded Registered User (12/30/01 7:45 am) Reply	Added thoughts Firstly, thanks to those of you who have offered your well-wishes to me. Many of the experiences I had had more to do with a downward spiral of drug use and hypocritical behavior. This was after I had received initiation but failed to take that initial blessing as a chance to be rid of my demons for good. I still kept bad company and my shadow self just wouldnt go away. I didnt realize then that you have to accept the shadow and work with it to attain mastery and I just kept fighting it from a nuclus of fear. The thing about Kriya I feared most was that it gave my thoughts a powerful influence over the lives of people, something I realized could be a very dangerous thing since in my deepest self I am extremely conscious of allowing others to exercise absolute free will in their lives. I felt very much like a modern-day Milarepa. I found out recently that the famous "saint with two bodies" Swami Pranabananda who Master writes about in his autobiography also had similar problems throughout his life. Even after he had taken initiation from Lahiri Mahashay he used opium and hashish on a regular basis until one day, when he asked his music teacher to prepare the drug for his daily hit, the teacher bitingly remarked, "Why should I? Now you will prepare it for us." This cut him to the core and he suddenly saw himself as a drug addict and no-hoper. In that very moment he looked the teacher in the eye and told him, "By my life I swear that from this moment on I will not touch any more drugs for the rest of my life, even if it kills me." And sure enough he didnt. He became very sick during withdrawal and came close to death but he wouldnt bend in his vow. It was after that that his rise in sadhana became meteoric. I have some more thoughts to share on the topic of hiding and the general state of kriya these days. I agree what is said about Brother Bhaktananda in one of these posts. Ive never met him but I remember something Master allegedly said of him to a visitor once: "That man has no ego". And that was when Master was still on this plane so if he was without ego then its a good bet he will be without it forever more. This is maybe what contributes to his being in such deep attunement with Master to this day. Another thing I remember was that during his later days Master was careful to keep Rajarsi away from all inharmonious vibrations. Maybe this is another insight into the why's of monastics having a hard time dealing with striving to remain in the pure state that they all aspire to while at the same time being so involved with the state of things "down here". I dont know...I just feel that too much criticism of their actions is not warranted since they have done and are doing so much good in this world. Master did supposedly say toward the end of his days that it was only Rajarsi who had fully lived up to his expectations and that in some way or another all the other disciples save perhaps Sister (Gyanamata) had disappointed him. Who can say...maybe the physical absence of Master has done a great deal of damage over the years to some of the monastics' resolve to serve the work regardless of their having to toil in duality. You already know of the way they work so hard without necessarily having much time to meditate. And even so, they probably end up having more meditation time and depth than most of the householder devotees of SRF. Maybe that says something about the degree of effort required to really go all the way to the point where it doesnt matter anymore because you are as conscious of God during physical activity as in meditation (Nirvikalpa samadhi). Even Master said that in this life it had taken him a long time to reach Nirvikalpa because of the amount of service he had to perform while he still had time here on earth. And how about this: I remember reading a book by the controversial kriya figure Satyeswarananda. Now I dont necessarily give much validity to his views of the kriya scene but he did say several very interesting things. One was that during the time when Lahiri Mahashaya was getting initiation after being drawn again to the Himalayas by Babaji, Babaji was alleged to have expressed doubts about the idea of giving kriya freely to the masses or even householders for that matter. Now, I know this is stated in the autobiography where Lahiri Mahashaya makes a heartfelt plea on the behalf of all men trapped in maya and Babaji accedes and gradually allows his chela to give Kriya more and more freely. However, according to Satyeswarananda this reservation of Babaji's may have had more to it than just a casual hesitation. Perhaps it is what is known as a maha-sankalpa (will of a master made manifest by divine power) on the part of Babaji to ensure that an accidental state of chaos is not effected because of the ungoverned wills of people made powerful through the practice of kriya without a corresponding inner grace which is the outcome of long and deep cultivation of yama and niyama, the all-important first steps of yoga. So many devoted and deeply developed kriyabans have already made it clear that the state of Kriya these days is not good. My very good friend and highly advanced kriya disciple who is living in the US has told me that his Master (a disciple of Sri Yukteswarji) had said to him, "Kriya is really only for a few. So many are teaching these things but it is nevertheless only for a few. Babaji knows what he is doing." I know there would be some people who, out of a very human sense of not wanting to feel left out of the potential blessings that kriya can bring and also out of a very human desire to see the world prosper through a mass dissemination of it, who would express a denial of what I have just said, but perhaps it is truly the real state of things after all. Norman Paulsen for example, who practiced full kriya with kechari for many years after meeting Master has said that there is an important extra step to safe kriya sadhana in the new age. It has to do with the fact that there must be an allowance for the masculine descending current to meet and balance the kundalini, the upward rising feminine current, which potentially causes problems as it can literally "hiss" and lash out at others as their interactions with the yogi may potentially awaken subconscious associations and negative tendencies. (How many of us have expressed trepidation at the tales told in vedic texts of the constant mantric battles and vibratory complexities experienced even by the gods who are supposedly tranquil beings? Did not even Shiva burn Kama to ashes with one look?) This thing about the need for the incorrporation of the descending masculine force is not so hard to believe since the kundalini comes up from the base and is thus effectively activating the primal tendencies at the lower chakras and travels "up and out". The masculine positive tendency on the other hand meets the Mother halfway and effects a union at the heart where it gives birth to what Norman has called the Christ child, a truly balanced and harmonious embryonic Christ-conscious light which then through gradual deeper evolution ascends the spinal highway to complete union at the crown and higher universal chakras. Its almost as though it is a better-suited-for-this-age version of kriya by virtue of this fact, that it effects a harmonious state of inner calm and benefit in the heart centre way before the raw primal Mother force is given a chance to wreak potential havoc by reason of Her ascension to the higher centres, especially the sixth, the ajna, where all sorts of powers and tests come to the devotee. Remember that kriya is the most powerful form of evolution enhancing techniques, something that many people, in an effort to get there quick and attain the promises that drew them to the path in the first place, may overlook. It may in fact result in a greater amount of stress than is truly necessary as they attempt to bypass the all-important first "baby-steps" of learning to master the mind through basic concentration and the transmutation of negative thought-forms into healthy positive ones. This is something of which I believe I have had a personal experience.
OpenMinded Registered User (12/30/01 8:16 am) Reply	Blasphemy!...Burn the heretic.. I am going to add an avant-garde thought here, one that may be considered blasphemous and heretical by some. You all know the extraordinary lengths some masters go to in order to teach even their very highly advanced disciples a lesson. Is it completely out of the question to consider the possibility that this whole world-wide spread of Kriya yoga, which as aforementioned was contingent on the compassionate plea of Yogiraj (Lahiri Mahashaya) on behalf of suffering humanity, is part of a deep lesson his guru Babaji is giving to him and many others at one stroke? It has already been stated that Babaji initially met this plea with reservation, saying to Yogiraj, "Are you sure this is a good idea? Is this thing really not only something for the hillmen (renunciates in Babaji's Himalayan group)?" Maybe it is a test case, an experiment to see if its really time to be giving kriya to the world at large yet in this age, one that may be in the process of control by that universal scientist a patriarch of sages Babaji.

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