Bro. Devananda's exile in India

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SRF Walrus > Treatment of Members/Monastics > Bro. Devananda's exile in India
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student Unregistered User (2/10/02 10:55 am) Reply	Bro Deva's Speech I too would like to know what was so terrible about Devananda's convo speech to merit him the punishment. It has been asked before and everyone seems to be avoiding answering it. It must have been something terrible judging by all the secrecy. Can't be that secret though if it was a convo talk. By golly, what did he do, take off his clothes and dance naked, have sex with one of the matas, reveal he's really a woman...?
KS Registered User (2/10/02 1:53 pm) Reply	Speech After the speech I talked to him and he was asking some of us who appreciated the talk to write mother center with positive comments. He knew he was in trouble. He talked about solutions to day to day problems, solutions outside the SRF box. He talked about outside counciling, about having problems with the environment on inside the ashram, about how the SRF org is not answering ALL needs for people's growth. It was a very honest evaluation, most of it using examples of himself. One of the most sincere and healthy talks I have ever heard. Makes Anandamoy's talks seem like jell-o. Basically he said SRF was not perfect (yet). The bad ladies depend on the illusion of perfection for their control. He was brave enough to try to really help people and count on the basic goodness of Master's message.
Lala Unregistered User (2/10/02 2:04 pm) Reply	Speech When was this infamous speech given? Last year?
KS Registered User (2/10/02 6:56 pm) Reply	Dev Speech 2000 convocation I believe.
chuckle Unregistered User (2/10/02 8:52 pm) Reply	Devananda's great talk KS has given a good summary of the talk, which was given at the 2000 Convo. Like a number of others, I was thrilled by his talk. I remember thinking, "Finally, a minister has been smart enough to come to grips with our human psychology, instead of just pretending it doesn't exist." He talked about learning self-acceptance, validated the need for outside, professional counseling, mentioned that the monastics were doing these things. It was such a breath of fresh air! Imagine how surprised I was when in subsequent months I heard there was a backlash against him, not only from Mother Center (which I knew virtually nothing about) but also from the members. A number of devotees, I discovered, felt the talk was a waste of time, and that meditation was all you needed. This really stunned me. The tone and content of these criticisms convinced me that a number of people felt very threatened by what he had to say: these devotees were frightened by what Devananda was potentially exposing. This was an "Uh, oh. There's problems here in SRF" moment for me. The sad thing about all of this is that so many of us have had our independence, our self-worth, our very soul-natures gradually whittled away. No one intended that it happen--indeed,Master's teachings are the very antithesis of this, they are all about recovering our mastery--but it has happened, and what's sadder is that the people who need to know that it's happening don't seem to be aware of it and hence aren't doing anything about it. The saddest comment I have ever heard is when a devotee was asked what his response would be if Master suddenly walked into the room. With a slight jerk of his head, a sucking in of his breath, and with widening eyes, he responded: "I'd be terrified." I'll never forget that scene as long as I live. To end on a positive note, another devotee responded, "I'd run into his arms and plant a big, fat, wet kiss on him!" And isn't that what Master did when Sri Yukteswar came back to him? I like it!
AumBoy Registered User (2/10/02 11:04 pm) Reply	Re: Devananda's great talk In 1998, before I left the ashram, the Spiritual Life Committees had come into being. There were different meetings held which I did not attend. I was leaving soon anyway. I remember listening to a talk given by a Brother (whose name escapes me) and he said, "You know, we don't have to be perfect anymore. We're allowed to make mistakes." I just about fell off of my seat. How mature. What an incredibly responsible statement. Perfection, as it had been practiced in the ashram, was/is forced and rigid. And I realized that his statement was one of acceptance of himself and the efforts of the Spiritual Life Committees at work. Perfection is a natural unfoldment of our inner being, not an outside forced graft which we spend time trying to assume like putting on clothes that are too small to fit and do not stretch.
In Recovery Unregistered User (2/11/02 7:57 am) Reply	Devananda's Talk It was a talk he gave in Convocation 2000, when he struck on the topic of "mentors." He particularly mentioned a member at Lake Shrine who has been a great mentor for him. Apparently, he was raked over the coals for mentioning publicly that a member could be a mentor for a monastic. He also mentioned that SRF has its problems, like any other organization in a world of duality. Although he didn't mention any specifics, just the vague reference was enough for the "heavies" to get on his case. He was nixed from the speakers' list for Convocation 2001 until the members got wind of it and raised a fuss, so he was thrown the Energization Exercise class to do in 2001. Mitrananda also gave a candid talk that year, and he was also scrubbed from the speakers' list for the following year. But the members got wind of that, also, and got him back behind the lecturn.
That Unregistered User (2/11/02 8:55 am) Reply	Bro Devananda's Talk So is the therapist that Bro Devananda mentioned in his talk (the one who treats SRF members with low self-esteem and guilt issues) the same one who sees recovering ex-SRF members whose name has been posted on this board?
X Insider Unregistered User (2/11/02 7:40 pm) Reply	Dev's therapist reference As far as I know, this is the same person.
quest Unregistered User (2/11/02 8:30 pm) Reply	Was it a covert operation? Did Dev give a completely different talk than the topic that was announced in the program without getting approval from MC (IOW did he just spring the surprise on them), or did he give his assigned talk but hijacked it and took it into a whole different area?
Should Free Registered User (2/15/02 10:59 pm) Reply ezSupporter	About Devananda His talk has been the most authentic talk I heard in SRF. He was feerless too. We need Devananda as the next SRF's president. Let us all write to mother Center requesting to make him the next president instead of the ******* Vishuananada. [Walrus note: The filter rules are in here for a reason. Please accept the spirit rather than the letter of the rule.] Edited by: srfwalrus at: 2/16/02 8:16:17 am
devotee Unregistered User (2/28/02 4:55 pm) Reply	Devananda has been doing Services in Encinitas. Encinitas devotees like Him. All the monastics (nuns and monks) seem paranoid. It is a real pity! It can only be a failure in leadership. It comes from the insecurity of possibly being the next monastic to get the ax. In the Bible it clearly says that women should not ever minister to men. (it is not allowed by biblical scripture). A man needs to head SRF. Women are destroying it! The nuns speak privately with great disdain for the male monastics. It is a real pity! As one poster pointed out, There is a major polarization, split in SRF caused by an "Unholy Gender War!" The SRF female leadership has failed in negotiating these difficult issues. They seem sophomoric, power hungry, paranoid, and many male monastics seem to have the women shooting at them. Basically the women have been castrating the mens rise to power. Isn�t this obvious? They want the power but want the men to do all the ministry (work) while they hide out away from the devotees. This is not what Yogananda wanted! He was every bit a man. Even he is being redefined ie historically castrated as though being the man he was, was somehow bad!
AumBoy Registered User (2/28/02 7:14 pm) Reply ezSupporter	Re: Devananda has been doing Services in Encinitas. *Quote:* In the Bible it clearly says that women should not ever minister to men. (it is not allowed by biblical scripture). A man needs to head SRF. Women are destroying it! The nuns speak privately with great disdain for the male monastics. It is a real pity! As one poster pointed out, There is a major polarization, split in SRF caused by an "Unholy Gender War!" Yes, there is a pull between the two "sides" of the organization. And the talk of one side to the other happens on both sides of the organization. Although SRF is one organization in name, underneath it is two organizations, Nuns and Monks. I have heard uncomplementary things originating from both sides of the organization. It is not as simple as having a "man" (Charleton Heston, perhaps?) leading the organization. Look at world events. Men have been leading things for a while and the world is pretty screwed up. A senior monk once said that the Dwapara Yuga is the age of women. He said that since women had been held back for so long, you'd begin to see more women at the helm and more men at the oars. Take that with a grain of salt. Understanding may be a key ingredient here so I'll describe, briefly, how the organization is structured. Imagine a very large capital 'T'. Now draw 2 parallel lines above the horizontal line on top of the 'T'. On the top line write 'Yogananda and the Masters'. On the line below write 'SRF President'. On the next line write 'BOD'. Now on one side of the vertical line write 'Monks' and on the other write 'Nuns'. Now for the rules. 1. The vertical line is an impenetrable barrier. There is NO communication across this line. PERIOD. Except where authorized by the President. Certain communication is allowed if it is pre-authorized and is necessary and it must be brief. There is a hierarchy for the Monks and one for the Nuns. 2. Monks and Nuns, for the most part, do not notice each other. (Master mentioned, and I was repeatedly told this, that Mount Washington and Encinitas are the only and last colonies where mixing would be.) 3. Information flow generally follows the lines of the 'T'. Monks communicate up and down; Nuns communicate up and down. If information needs to move in a fashion that has not been preapproved, it moves as follows: Up one side through whatever the hierarchy is and eventually arrives at the BOD (or someone on the BOD). And if needed Presidential approval may be required, too. Then it eventually moves down the other side of the organization following the hierarchy on that side of the organization. 4. There are separate phone lists: One for the Monks and one for the Nuns. 5. On social occasions, it is ok to talk to someone of the opposite sex (OOPS! I'm not a biologist!), um, I mean gender. At other times this practice is definitely frowned upon. 6. Nuns are not allowed to tell monks what to do (even if they are correct and the monks are incorrect) and vice versa. This goes for people on the BOD, too. 7. Both sides are run differently. Completely differently. 8. The President makes all the decisions. This has lightened in the past few years but the power is still held by the President. Now, this is not necessarily a bad thing. But this is how it is structured. Those on the BOD rank higher than other senior monastics not on the BOD. Direct disciples tend to rank higher than others mostly, I think, out of deference. There are more rules but you can probably figure them out from some of the organizational kinks.
why be destructive Unregistered User (3/1/02 9:00 pm) Reply	Female leadership has alienated half of Yoganandas flock! I am surprised to see nuns so openly destructive toward certain monks and monks in general. In my opinion, it is nothing less than malice. Strange that the two gender's paths are so segregated yet one monk from Hidden Valley has been seen visiting a particular nun from Encinitas on a regular basis. Is this against the rules? I do not pick up on hateful ill will from monks towards nuns. In any case a spiritual organization should not be so internally divided across gender lines. I think it is easier for good male leadership to make dignified room for the nuns, than it is for female leadership to make dignified room for the monks. It seems to me, a basic difference in male and female psychology. As a spiritual leader Daya Mata has a lot to offer, I find her written communications and tapes inspiring. I can see her qualities as a model to aspire towards. But the fact that the internal problems are so oriented around male and female issues tells me that the female leadership (BOD) has failed to deal with gender issues. It seems to me, that more men have been hurt (damaged) over the years than women, causing lawsuits loss of money, and great divisions in Yogananda's flock. Unity needs to be established, and male leadership can do this. There are many excellent Brothers who would provide good leadership. leadership needs to be changed every 4-6 years. Nuns need to be more like Catholic nuns... well respected sisters of the faith, but not leaders of men. I do not think they have it in them to do that job. If everyone in the monastic life were under ten years old the woman would be better at leadership. And men do have it in them to provide mature and realistic leadership for both genders. Men will turn over the details of female order to the women!. Yet at the top level men will retain the leadership role. Sorry, even the bible sees it this way... and Lord Krishna had many wives and favored one most highly and clearly it was "HE" who was in control. Krishna, Jesus, Yogananda, all the great ones were men! This is no accident!
We site surfer Unregistered User (3/2/02 12:08 am) Reply	Why be destructive? Why be embarrasingly ignorant? Why are so many of the posts lately coming from, shall we say, less than fully manifested intelligence? (What happened to the good old days, mighty Walrus?) Gender ain't it, pal. There is a bigger picture. Getting sidetracked on gender will prevent you from seeing it. But since ignorance is not necessarily painful, perhaps you prefer to rest there for a time.
blindking Unregistered User (3/2/02 10:17 am) Reply	Why be distructive I completely agree with you We Site Surfer. Lately somebody commented on how many users are now browsing this site. Quality is more important then quantity. Walrus You started out well and I hope it is not becoming another SRF org. Full of monks but the good one leave. I suggest that you plan to do something about this and open a subject line for discussion and suggestions.
fromLA Unregistered User (3/2/02 2:48 pm) Reply	Be an example Well, folks, nothing prevents you from posting intelligent and high quality material. We look forward to it. It would help if you do a better job of checking your grammar and spelling, however. All we have is your written words, so take the time to make them good.
unmonked Unregistered User (3/9/02 1:47 pm) Reply	this thread Hmmmm.....isn't this all about a failure of leadership, not a failure of gender? At the risk of further prolonging a thread which should be allowed a quiet death: I don't recall reading much about how Enron would be such a great company if only the men were replaced with female executives (although it might've helped: the only one who seems to have spoken out and challenged the male leadership at Enron was a woman). Arguments against the SRF leadership become very tedious when they are so transparently sexist.
Dig Unregistered User (3/14/02 10:51 am) Reply	Bro. Devananda He's great! A wonderful asset to SRF. known him for years, he knows how to chant to God Christ Gurus. Pray he gets to stay and grow old with us. STAY,STAY,STAY Devananda!!! If they want to clean house, they should start with the queen of the (REAL) Bad Ladies, and that is RAMANANDA!!! Stop calling our great Daya Ma a bad ladie.
curious Unregistered User (3/14/02 11:07 am) Reply	Ramananda Why is he "the queen of the (REAL) Bad Ladies"?

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