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The Real Issue
Unregistered User
(12/18/01 4:11 pm)
Reply 		The Two Main Problems
I was in the SRF ashram for several years. When I left, I did so on amicable terms and with their blessings. I still visit and am on friendly terms with many at Mother Center.

As I see it, based on my experience, there are two main problems with the monastic aspirants who never make it and end up leaving on bad terms. They are:

1 - Immaturity
2 - Ego

The vast majority, dare I say all, of the ones who leave on unfriendly terms have excessive quantities of the above two flaws. They are very immature in all areas. They are often what are termed "misfits" in society who think that hiding in the ashram will make the harsh world go away and make them instantly perfect and erase all their flaws. They were usually unsuccessfull in all their human relations outside the ashram, and the same thing carries over inside it. They can't relate to people well, don't know how to behave or act appropriately, and can't cope with other people or with life's problems. Although physically they are adults, mentally they never made it past the pre-teen years.

Then there are the ego maniacs. Many got away with anything at home and try to lord it over everybody in the ashram. Often they have highly fantasized images of themselves and overblown ideas about their own perceived intelligence, spirituality, and greatness. They walk around with their bible in their hands (be it the autobiography, or Bhagavad Gita, or their David Keirsey book) hitting everybody on the head with it (figuratively speaking) and shoving their own version of reality down everyone's throat. A few make it to the top simply because they happened to have been at the right place at the right time, but most end up leaving in disgust and spend the rest of their lives nursing a personal grudge against SRF because they would have liked to have been the one in charge and giving everyone orders. They usually hang out in boards like this one pounding everyone on the head with their "knowledge" of human behavior or psychology, always have to have the last word, and in general make fools of themselves parading around like peacocks showing off the little bit they know. "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing" as the saying goes.

SRF knows it's hard to get good monastics now, just as it was in Master's time, just as Krishna spoke of how few were fit to realize him. In a sense it's better that they have a revolving door in the ashram; they don't really need all those misfits making life miserable for the ones who truly belong there.

In the end, the ones who have a real calling will stay, and those who are in the wrong place will sooner or later realize it and leave, or be made to leave. Only the ones with immaturity problems and huge egos will spend the rest of their lives screaming about it.

Raja
Unregistered User
(12/18/01 5:45 pm)
Reply 		Mr. Maturity
And how did you finally get to be an expert on this subject?

Raja Begum
Unregistered User
(12/18/01 6:10 pm)
Reply 		By the way Mr. Righteous Sadducee
You forgot about me. Where do I fit in?

I've never left the ashram...in fact, I've never joined it. I'm very popular and have many friends and associates in and out of the SRF community. I have a responsible position of leadership in my profession and have earned over $100,000 with my ability to communicate and share ideas.

OK, so I admit I'm a peacock, but not everyone can be a vulture.

Actually, I'm just an ordinary bloke who wonders aloud why his life gets increasingly better the more he recedes from the influence of people like you.

PS. Say hi to your sanctimonious Pharisee friends on the hill and remind them that Jesus loves the misfits.

oldtimer
Unregistered User
(12/18/01 8:18 pm)
Reply 		RE: The two main problems
Good post. I would only suggest one correction: your descriptions of the two basic character flaws are complete and accurate, but they apply to those who are successful in the ashram, and remain. They also apply to those members and employees who manage to "get in good" with those in power.

Rather than bat this endlessly back and forth, I just suggest to people that they decide based on their own experience.

Also, Real, I suggest you study the term "projection" and read a good overview book on Jungian psychology. Just a suggestion.

KS
Registered User
(12/18/01 9:40 pm)
Reply 		Two Main Problems?
I agree we can bat this one around a lot, but in my experience with monastics and members closely involved with SRF the “Real Issue” message is not correct. Those leaving are often those resisting the imbalanced and brutal nature of the “inside” culture. Those staying are hiding from life or just learning how to play the game and taking a cowards way out.

There are many messages about this on this board so I won’t repeat all those points.

chuckle
Unregistered User
(12/19/01 7:27 pm)
Reply 		Not convinced yet, Real Issue
Both Real Issue and sackcloth have made claims that are worth listening to: that those who have left the ashram on bad terms (recently or not) are "misfits," "immature," "crybabies," etc. Although harsh, these comments are worth considering, especially for those of us who are many miles away from L.A. and are having a difficult time deciding where the truth lies.

Perhaps they are right, and in one sense I hope they are, and that SRF is really on the right track. But I must say I'm not yet convinced of either Real Issue's or sackcloth's arguments. I only know of the identities of two renunciants who have recently left: Sr. Dhriti and Br. Miles, whom I got to know a bit through our involvement in Sunday school programs. It's hard for me to think of either of these individuals as misfits, immature, or spoiled brats. Perhaps it would be helpful if you ex-monastics or
ex-workers could list the names and years of service of some of those who have left recently so that we can better evaluate for ourselves what kind of people have left. Another factor that seems significant to me is that 30 monastics have left in less than two years and several all at one time. It seems even less plausible that all of these were immature misfits.

Let me quickly add that I'm sure Real Issue is right that some monastics who leave on bad terms are immature, are egomaniacs, and are just looking to stir up bad feelings.

I also remain unconvinced by Real Issue and sackcloth because a friend also left Mt. Washington (as a laymember employee) under very difficult circumstances similar to those which have been outlined by others on this website. I would love to tell that story but, alas, I cannot; however, it is as painful as any tale told on this board. I know my friend very well (and I'm willing to bet that some of you know her, too, which is why I cannot tell the tale) and she is not immature or a spoiled brat. She did not leave on bad terms but she did have to leave for the sake of her sanity. I also have a friend still working at Mt. Washington who has verified for me some of the information on this board. I mention these individuals not to convince anyone else, but merely to show that I am one individual who has not yet been convinced by Real Issue or sackcloth, partially because of the experiences of my friends.

Furthermore, I haven't had any overwhelming sense that posters here who are ex-monastics or ex-employees are immature. Yes, I've seen bitterness and anger in some of their posts, but that's not necessarily immaturity; the anger may well be justified. (If the stories listed on this board are true, then that anger is justified). These same people make what I feel are thoughtful,
insightful, and caring comments.

Real Issue and sackcloth suggest that the complainers simply move on. Well, it seems as though that is what some of them who post here are doing--moving on to something else, in some cases rejecting SRF altogether. I think that's fine, and I have no problem with such individuals continuing to post here, and it seems to me that their desire to be helpful to others is mostly sincere, and not just attempts to tear SRF down; indeed, I sense that their expressions of loyalty are genuine.

My bottom line for being concerned about what's going on within SRF is the rule I learned many years ago upon entering the sciences: if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, has feathers like a duck...it's usually a duck. As I said earlier, I would love to be convinced by either sackcloth or Real Issue or anyone else that ex-monk, witness, KS, In recovery, xmonk, etc. are just
a bunch of whiners and nothing more and that all is well with SRF.


KS
Registered User
(12/19/01 10:57 pm)
Reply 		Crazy
While I will myself admit to being immature and am probably the best message writer on this board, possibly the best in the universe, I know many of the 30 or so monastics and some of the employees who have parted with SRF recently and they do not suffer from the same frailties. Most have 20 years or so of heavy involvement with SRF. If you are an ego maniac or immature, you don’t last 20 years.

Here is a post about the breakdown of who has left. No one has posted names much on the Walrus to protect people’s privacy. The SRF culture tries to brand these people to divert the blame from the organization. It works. I also suspect those that have left just want to put it behind them.
pub78.ezboard.com/fsrfwal...D=14.topic
If these numbers don’t indicate something is wrong, along with your other stories, I don’t know what will.

I count about a dozen member/employees who have left in the last year too, with probably an average of 15 to 20 years of service also. If we also count the walking wounded still there, and the draining of the volunteer pools for SRF events, the trend is pretty clear.

local
Unregistered User
(12/19/01 11:07 pm)
Reply 		RE: Crazy
No one is going to prove anything on an anonymous board. If you live far away, or don't know personally about any of this, you're on your own. If you have been involved, you don't need to hear from someone else.

My two cents: I know almost all of the monastics who have left over the last year or so. Yes, both men and women. Many of them I have known for 10 years or more. Well. Not one--I repeat, not one--is a spoiled brat. Far from it.

However....there a number of monastics still in residence who are psychotic, many more who are neurotic or paranoid, and almost all the rest are just plain unhappy. Psychobabble? Forget about typologies and so on. I have clinical training, and these are clinical diagnoses.

chuckle
Unregistered User
(12/20/01 7:18 pm)
Reply 		Thanks, KS and local
Thanks, guys for your replies. I had missed the post which listed the numbers, and that gives me more grist.

Local, you mentioned a great point: those who were involved know the truth, and those of us who are far away are going to have to figure it out for ourselves. And I think we have an obligation to do so.

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