WORLD CRISIS: What is Destroying the United States?

SRF Walrus

Mt. Washington, Ca

Open discussions about SRF

SRF Walrus > Not the Main Stream > WORLD CRISIS: What is Destroying the United States?
Page 1 2 3 4 5	<< Prev Topic \| Next Topic >>

Author	Comment
YellowBeard420 Registered User (12/6/03 5:51 am) Reply	Shaking Fruit From the Tree Chuckle Chela wrote: "Maybe it's a good thing for each who comes to the Walrus to think about: why did (do) I buy the whole SRF message: "This is the perfect path, the perfect org, the perfect teaching . . . " (or is it a message we contributed to by wanting to see it in that form?). What need in me was unfulfilled that I was willing to accept it all, and accept it as virtually perfect, more or less unquestioningly." Great question. Let me jump in here and answer this out loud. Perhaps doing so might help others to seriously look at this question as well. Yellowbeard doesn't mind opening himself up completely in front of others; if one does so in complete honesty, insults and judgments which don't really apply will simply pass through one. If one does feel pain, this means that the insult or judgment actually hit something. If this is the case, then there is an issue to work with. But for this to work properly, you do need to drop all psychological defenses and pretenses. If you do not, incoming insults and judgments will hit against these psychological walls and you're going to feel pain from that. So you can't get accurate feedback from the hits that way. These walls have to be lowered for this to work properly. Mastering this art creates a state of invincible and incorruptible innocence, it's a spiritual path in its own right. Let me start answering this question to begin the surgery on myself. YellowBeard roughly followed the Zen path before SRF. The Zen approach values obtaining insights into Truth first and foremost, and only after that do they worry about incorporating these insights into ones life. Most other spiritual approaches like to smooth out the ground first so when the insights do come, they'll be able to take root easily. Zen describes their approach as shaking fruit from the tree in a somewhat aggressive fashion to get it to come down. Once you have these unripened fruits, you simply hold onto them and let them ripen on their own. YellowBeard did manage to shake a few fruits loose. Some landed on the ground and rolled away before I could catch them. But a few did land in my hands. And I hungrily tucked these away in my pockets and brought them home. All the fruits were the same -- it was the insight that we're all really the same exact Person. Not that we are connected, but that we are the same one being. But each fruit did have its own character. It's like how Enlightenment is described as a many faceted gem, each fruit is the same gem, but you see different aspects of it each time you catch a glimpse of it. Once home I became frustrated with these unripened fruits. I could not incorporate them into my life to any useful degree. In desperation I fell into the religious aspects of Buddhism. I shoved my face into the ground, bowing down to all sorts of mythological Buddhist deities in an attempt to get some kind of help which no human being seemed capable of offering. One day, with my face on the floor, a knock came on my door. A family member handed me an SRF catalog. "Wow", I thought, "I have received an answer to my prayers!" What really got me was the name -- Self-realization Fellowship. I thought that this was some sort of actual fellowship of people who have actually experienced the realizations that I had and were working together to live this reality. So I jumped into SRF head first, for this was the answer I've been waiting for -- Heaven was now going to unfold on earth. The more I got immersed into the teachings of Yogananda, the more the "Self" of my Self-realization turned into the concept "God" and spiritual authority. I saw my fruits being taken out of my hands and put into the hands of externals to be worshiped. I let this happen. I figured that this advanced "Self-realized" being knew what was best. Little did I know that I was simply being robbed. As the years past, I became shallow and the space I had within myself where my realizations rested, were stuffed with mere ideas. I gave away diamonds for chunks of glass. Yogananda's ideas became chains on me. I tried to escape many times, but I found myself trapped -- I became a servant in chains. For those readers who have seen the first Matrix movie, I felt like one of the people in the pods being drained of my life energy while being kept in place with a complex artificial world to distract me. It literally took me years to build the strength to fight my captor -- Yogananda. He is powerful indeed. I fought viciously to reclaim my fruits of Self-realization. Initially I could only grab one back for a short time, only to lose it again. But each time I got a fruit back, I became stronger. In order to make room in my pockets again for these realizations, I had to toss out all the words scribbled down on paper (ideas) given to me by SRF. ... [Edited to remove personal elements no longer relevant.] ... The fruits that were stolen from me are now back in my hands. And these fruits are starting to ripen now. When my mind becomes still I feel touched by a love which no one can give or take away. This is the true blessing of Self-realization. Never again will I be fooled into giving these fruits away, for I went through hell to get them back. That lesson is well learned. This is the story of YellowBeard. But what's truly important is your story of your struggle for freedom. It's never about anyone else, it's always about you because we are all the same Being. Never surrender your Self to another. Never follow, never compromise the dignity of your Self. Never look to the help of another (spiritually). Everything you need and more is within yourself. Yogananda is a bully and a thief; and he no longer holds any power over my life. Don't be afraid of him. His whole line of gurus isn't worth wiping the arse of your Self! Stand up and fight for Freedom! Edited by: YellowBeard420 at: 12/20/03 5:18 am
OneTaste Registered User (12/6/03 2:59 pm) Reply	Re: "SRF is to blame, but I am moreso . . . ." *Quote:* Wow! Hubba Hubba! Rolling Into One, that's a keeper! Fantastic, truthful writing. This gets the Walrus seal of approval and a space in the Smithsonian!!!! Well, thanks. I'm glad you enjoyed it, but opinions certainly differ, Punk. It got the Walrus seal of diapproval last time, was wiped off the board, and I got banned to boot for not donning the fashionable party garb of the season. Times do change, so now that I’ve been outted perhaps I will not get the hook this time as well. *Quote:* PS: There's this fellow named One Taste who keeps getting into pissing contests with me. . . . Would you mind taking him aside and showing him how to write meaningful prose like you do? Ah, not to worry overly. Once he sees that them that enjoy taking shots at others can’t catch as well as they piss, er, pitch, he gets bored, loses touch with his own inner punk and stops all on his own. Then he just goes back to talking about stuff or fades back into the woodwork. Rolling into One Taste
Punk Yogi Registered User (12/6/03 4:49 pm) Reply	Punk Speaks Dear Yellowbeard, Punk Yogi is putting aside his usual flippant mood for a moment to tell you sincerely that he appreciates your honesty and your commitment towards finding out the truth in things. You remind him of the venerable Spock but with more warmth and personality. By the way, curiosity seizes me. Wondering if you are an NT on the Myers-Briggs / Kiersey temperament indicator? .... "Ever in search of knowledge, this is the 'Knowledge Seeking Personality' -- trusting in reason and hungering for achievement." (Kiersey). keirsey.com/personality/nt.html In many of your posts, you come back to a central theme: the negative effects of spiritual authority on the follower. This IS in Punk's opinion is the sprawling chestnut tree over-arching all other considerations for people who have ever called themselves "devotees" and now find themselves on the Walrus. Under the spreading chestnut tree I sold you and you sold me -- George Orwell, 1984 Here's one point of view: Had we not endowed the guru or the organization with so much power, we might have left the table as wise spiritual "consumers." Instead, we made a Faustian bargain and sold our souls for a promise. The multitudes who flock to the Walrus, either as visitors or commentators, give ample proof that the lines at "customer service" counter are swelling daily with more dissatisfied spiritual customers who evidently forgot to heed the advice common sense: "Buyer Beware". Perhaps all the goods in that store were shabby. Perhaps all the salesmen were dishonest. Perhaps only some goods were defective and only a few of the salespeople were shysters. Maybe the CEO is a high level confidence man (hi Kenneth Lay) or maybe he is someone of immense conscience and benevolence. These are the questions we must ask and eventually answer about SRF, its founder, and its representatives. Quite early on, when the Walrus was a baby, there had been a slew of postings examining the semantics of SRF lessons and verbal communications. Much has been said about the "fascistic" use of space and presentation, the bias and favoritism towards monasticism in a crowd composed mostly of householders. One has to decide whether the teachings were impregnated with manipulative intent from their inception or were genuine but adopted and modified by manipulative individuals who then used them, consciously or unconsciously, along with the whole SRF catalog of props, to stage a relatively small yet royal fantasy of modern day feudal power. Whatever the case may be, it eventually wends its way back to us. On a sweltering hot desert dune of cosmic space called planet Earth all we wanted was a drink of pure water. For some of us, SRF was the only oasis we encountered. Others went from oasis to oasis never quite finding a saltless watering hole. When we came to SRF we believed ... or wanted to believe... that this pond was fresh. We drank. If the water tasted slightly salty, we ignored our taste buds for our feet were tired of looking. There are true believers who, to this very day, taste noting but sparkling waters who would tell you and me that the salt is in our own mouths. And these two camps of believers and the disenchanted argue back and forth when all they really need to do is give the water a salinity test. Then there are those who say, "How can you expect perfection on this two-bit planet? All you need is distilling machine and you'll have all the pure water you need." Then there are those who say, "I will find another watering hole" Then there are those who say, "I refuse to drink this swill. I will regurgitate my own saliva." So much confusion. Punk wants to personally congratulate God for all the effort he put into designing this intricate riddle we find ourselves in. Then there are those who die and become disembodied beings, having no more need of water. Punk spent a long time wondering about the watering hole he was drinking from. After many years of wondering, Punk began to wonder about Punk. "I thirst" he said on the cross. Yes... we all thirst. But Punk is not ashamed of his thirst. He realizes that his thirst is what defines him and makes him human. SRF, for all it gave, also instilled in Punk a tremendous contempt for his human side. Punk renounced his needs and his dreams. One day, Punk woke up in the middle of a life crisis and realized he was feeling and thinking things that had not come from his own heart and brain, so he renounced again, but this time he gave up the unnecessary shame of being human which he acquired like the stench of smoke after standing too close too a bookburning. On this cross we all bleed. The infinite and the ridiculously limited meet at a tiny point of fleshly space called humanity. It is there where the ultimate paradox reigns. And the Architect of this paradox, when asked "what is the meaning of life" merely answers, "Deal with it!" Whatever the reason is why we are here, we must deal with it. Even the birds are not free from the chains of the sky. Punk believes this rotating quandary is the ultimate generator off all human creativity. All our hungers, all our thirsts, all our attempts at solutions derive their power from the original paradox. Thus Punk believes there are no final answers. There is only eternal mystery up ahead and behind us. "The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental motion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science." -- Albert Einstein But we must ask questions and keep pretending there are are answers because that is the charm of being human. Tiger got to hunt, Bird got to fly; Man got to sit and wonder, "Why, why, why?" Tiger got to sleep, Bird got to land; Man got to tell himself he understand. *Quote:* Never surrender your Self to another. Never follow, never compromise the dignity of your Self. Never look to the help of another (spiritually). Everything you need and more is within yourself. Yogananda is a bully and a thief; and he no longer holds any power over my life. Don't be afraid of him. His whole line of gurus isn't worth wiping the arse of your Self! Stand up and fight for Freedom! (Yellowbeard) Yes, I agree Yellowbeard. Never surrender your Self to another. Never compromise your authenticity. Everything is within. But who is Yogananda? Is he a bully? Is he a thief? What did he take? Where are his fingerprints? Where is the club he used for bludgeoning peple at the scene of the crime? What was it he asked for? Or.... was it something you wanted to give to somebody.... anybody. In other words, were you making him into the projection of the "father" you wish you had? And when I say "you," I really mean all of us. Punk Yogi had a sh-itty father. He looked to SRF to be his father, a source of nurturing. It didn't work out. Punk is not ashamed for wanting a father. All humans want fathers. All humans want mothers. All humans want love. All humans want to belong to someone. Then Punk found father and child within himself. He cried. His dreams of finding a father outside of himself were destroyed. Next he tried blaming the government for being a bad father. This too backfired. Punk next took a big dump on God's creation. He blamed God for being a sh-itty father God just smiled. Punk became God's enemy. The spiritual eye kept shining. Punk discovered humor. The world began to shine. I don't know Yogananda. Never met him. I never met Babaji. I never met Sri Yukteswar, Lahiri Mahasaya, Jesus or Krishna. What I got by joining SRF was a book of spiritual science fiction, a heavily edited set of lessons, a bunch of extra altar pictures to be responsible for, and some pretentious new friends (pardon all the hyperbole). Yet I also get to see the spiritual eye any time I want. It pumps comfort and joy into my soul like the scent of night blooming Jasmine. I only began seeing the spiritual eye when I encountered the world of Yogananda. I don't know who to blame anymore. I'm not even able to blame myself. It all seems so funny. Punk just looks at the universe and laughs. HA HA HA Edited by: Punk Yogi at: 12/6/03 10:52 pm
Punk Yogi Registered User (12/6/03 6:58 pm) Reply	Hillary Clinton joins Larouche on the Conspiracy Wagon Hey all you conspiracy watchdogs, sharpen your fangs on this one... *Quote:* Dec. 5, 2003 Clinton blasts Bush for trying to 'undo New Deal' By CLAY ROBISON Houston Chronicle AUSTIN -- U.S. Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y., Friday blasted President Bush and his "radical" administration for attempting to dismantle the "central pillars of progress in our country during the 20th century." Clinton, in an interview with two reporters, said she had become convinced the Republican administration wants "to undo the New Deal," the Roosevelt-era policies that ushered in Social Security and a host of other governmental assistance programs. She said that Bush, who campaigned as a "compassionate conservative" in 2000, had taken a "hard-right turn to pursue an extremist agenda" after moving into the White House. "I don't know where it came from, but the fact is that this President Bush has not only been radical and extreme in terms of Democratic presidents but in terms of Republican presidents, including his own father," she said. Clinton, who later signed copies of her book, Living History, for hundreds of people waiting in line at a downtown Austin book store, continued to insist that she won't jump into the race for next year's Democratic presidential nomination. But she said she believed that Bush was beatable because his administration was "making America less free, fair, strong, smart than it deserves to be in a dangerous world." "We have to change direction before irreparable harm is done," she added. "This administration is in danger of being the first in American history to leave our nation worse off than when they found it." www.chron.com/cs/CDA/stor...an/2273233 www.drudgereport.com/matthc2.htm Edited by: Punk Yogi at: 12/6/03 7:02 pm
Ringbearer7 Registered User (12/6/03 10:29 pm) Reply	Re: Hillary Clinton joins Larouche on the Conspiracy Wagon Hillary is a LaRouchie now? This is really getting out of hand! ;-) "This administration is in danger of being the first in American history to leave our nation worse off than when they found it." Well, I think it is a bit of an exageration to claim that Bush would be the first to earn that distinction. Johnson, Nixon and Carter all come to mind - each for different reasons.
Ringbearer7 Registered User (12/6/03 10:46 pm) Reply	More grist for the conspiracy mill In the process of deriding LaRouche as a crank I seem to have backed myself into the somewhat unenviable position of defending the current administration. As an act of atonement I offer this LA Times article I came across recently. Note the date - only 3 or 4 months before 9/11/01. A conspiracy on the part of the Bush admin or just really bad judgement? ------------------------------------------------------------------- www.robertscheer.com/1_na...052201.htm Bush's Faustian Deal With the Taliban By Robert Scheer Published May 22, 2001 in the Los Angeles Times Enslave your girls and women, harbor anti-U.S. terrorists, destroy every vestige of civilization in your homeland, and the Bush administration will embrace you. All that matters is that you line up as an ally in the drug war, the only international cause that this nation still takes seriously. That's the message sent with the recent gift of $43 million to the Taliban rulers of Afghanistan, the most virulent anti-American violators of human rights in the world today. The gift, announced last Thursday by Secretary of State Colin Powell, in addition to other recent aid, makes the U.S. the main sponsor of the Taliban and rewards that "rogue regime" for declaring that opium growing is against the will of God. So, too, by the Taliban's estimation, are most human activities, but it's the ban on drugs that catches this administration's attention. Never mind that Osama bin Laden still operates the leading anti-American terror operation from his base in Afghanistan, from which, among other crimes, he launched two bloody attacks on American embassies in Africa in 1998. Sadly, the Bush administration is cozying up to the Taliban regime at a time when the United Nations, at U.S. insistence, imposes sanctions on Afghanistan because the Kabul government will not turn over Bin Laden. The war on drugs has become our own fanatics' obsession and easily trumps all other concerns. How else could we come to reward the Taliban, who has subjected the female half of the Afghan population to a continual reign of terror in a country once considered enlightened in its treatment of women? At no point in modern history have women and girls been more systematically abused than in Afghanistan where, in the name of madness masquerading as Islam, the government in Kabul obliterates their fundamental human rights. Women may not appear in public without being covered from head to toe with the oppressive shroud called the burkha , and they may not leave the house without being accompanied by a male family member. They've not been permitted to attend school or be treated by male doctors, yet women have been banned from practicing medicine or any profession for that matter. The lot of males is better if they blindly accept the laws of an extreme religious theocracy that prescribes strict rules governing all behavior, from a ban on shaving to what crops may be grown. It is this last power that has captured the enthusiasm of the Bush White House. The Taliban fanatics, economically and diplomatically isolated, are at the breaking point, and so, in return for a pittance of legitimacy and cash from the Bush administration, they have been willing to appear to reverse themselves on the growing of opium. That a totalitarian country can effectively crack down on its farmers is not surprising. But it is grotesque for a U.S. official, James P. Callahan, director of the State Department's Asian anti-drug program, to describe the Taliban's special methods in the language of representative democracy: "The Taliban used a system of consensus-building," Callahan said after a visit with the Taliban, adding that the Taliban justified the ban on drugs "in very religious terms." Of course, Callahan also reported, those who didn't obey the theocratic edict would be sent to prison. In a country where those who break minor rules are simply beaten on the spot by religious police and others are stoned to death, it's understandable that the government's "religious" argument might be compelling. Even if it means, as Callahan concedes, that most of the farmers who grew the poppies will now confront starvation. That's because the Afghan economy has been ruined by the religious extremism of the Taliban, making the attraction of opium as a previously tolerated quick cash crop overwhelming. For that reason, the opium ban will not last unless the U.S. is willing to pour far larger amounts of money into underwriting the Afghan economy. As the Drug Enforcement Administration's Steven Casteel admitted, "The bad side of the ban is that it's bringing their country--or certain regions of their country--to economic ruin." Nor did he hold out much hope for Afghan farmers growing other crops such as wheat, which require a vast infrastructure to supply water and fertilizer that no longer exists in that devastated country. There's little doubt that the Taliban will turn once again to the easily taxed cash crop of opium in order to stay in power. The Taliban may suddenly be the dream regime of our own war drug war zealots, but in the end this alliance will prove a costly failure. Our long sad history of signing up dictators in the war on drugs demonstrates the futility of building a foreign policy on a domestic obsession.
Ringbearer7 Registered User (12/6/03 10:52 pm) Reply	Re: You Have Been The Subject of an Experiment "My advice to you is for quit your job as an amateur commentator and get a full-time job in the real world." I'm looking forward to retirement when I can become a full-time commentator like yourself. ;-) Edited by: Ringbearer7 at: 12/6/03 10:52 pm
Punk Yogi Registered User (12/6/03 10:58 pm) Reply	The Punk with Two Bodies *Quote:* I'm looking forward to retirement when I can become a full-time commentator like yourself. There's two of me; that's how I do it. One goes to work, and the other stays home, does the laundry and blogs on the net :-)
OneTaste Registered User (12/7/03 3:02 am) Reply	Re: "SRF is to blame, but I am moreso . . . ." Anyone interested in part two of the post of mine that Chuckle reposted earlier in this thread, I moved it over here: pub78.ezboard.com/fsrfwal...D=32.topic Punk, I would love to hear your thoughts on any of it.
OneTaste Registered User (12/7/03 3:26 am) Reply	Re: Shaking Fruit From the Tree *Quote:* In desperation I fell into the religious aspects of Buddhism. I shoved my face into the ground, bowing down to all sorts of mythological Buddhist deities in an attempt to get some kind of help which no human being seemed capable of offering. Ah, now we start to see the nature of your battle, yb. And just before this post of yours, there I went calling you Yamantaka. I had no idea you saw the deities as mythological others. Certainly, this was not the place I was coming from. I have never seen the deities as others, but as anthropomorphic containers of psychological attributes. In short, ever-present awareness, were it to manfiest, might do so as Manjushri, maybe as Maitreya, sometimes as Avilokiteshvara, others as Yamantaka, if we may use the Buddhist names. Some folks here have been discussing the need for grounding experience in a traditional framework, ala George Burke and similar approaches. I can understand the attraction to this, but I have never shared it. In fact, my desire lately has gone way over to the other side. For whatever reasons, I’m finding that the traditional trappings of spirituality hold me away rather than draw me in, whether Christian, Judaic, Islamic, Hindu, or Buddhist. I’ve never been a fan of ritual and ceremony, whether from my RC upbringing or any of the other paths I’ve witnessed. In no way do I posit that these aren’t useful, for they certainly are for those who find them so, and I wouldn’t dream of advocating that folks follow my idiot-syncratic ways. But I would like to see a contemporary container for the eternal essence. *Quote:* The more I got immersed into the teachings of Yogananda, the more the "Self" of my Self-realization turned into the concept "God" and spiritual authority. I saw my fruits being taken out of my hands and put into the hands of externals to be worshiped. I let this happen. I surely believe that this happened in your case, but I think it a mistake to leap from incident to rule. Whatever the warped nature of my experience, it doesn’t resonate with what you describe here. This is why I was always bridling when you were busy assigning me to your cesspit of guru worshippers. Perhaps I just don’t understand what you mean by the term, but I have never felt I was worshipping Y or any deity or anyone. Attunement yes, worship no. I’ve always been uncomfortable with the word and the practice. *Quote:* Yogananda's ideas became chains on me. It would be interesting to see some examples of which ideas you speak of. Again, I don’t doubt your experience, but as you speak of it here it seems that you were the agency for stricture, not Y. *Quote:* It literally took me years to build the strength to fight my captor -- Yogananda. He is powerful indeed. The fact that I may be wholly off the mark here notwithstanding, the way this is presented makes me feel that the possibility exists of your projecting your interior battle onto Y as other. Real experience, yes, but the interpretation of said exp. may be up for further review. *Quote:* It was like a stifling sensation that held me back. Yogananda's "signature" was not hidden in this, I was being let known exactly who I was up against. I did not let this stop me. I commend you for having the courage to wage this war, which is why I brought up Yamantaka, for this is his domain. But your concept of guru is what stifles, not the actuality, at least as I understand it. *Quote:* There were only two ways to end this -- surrender to Yogananda and call off my attack or fight to the death. Indeed, it must have been so. For you. For me, it may express itself differently. Still, we’re going to need to deal with it at some point. *Quote:* It's never about anyone else, it's always about you because we are all the same Being. Never surrender your Self to another. Never follow, never compromise the dignity of your Self. Never look to the help of another (spiritually). Everything you need and more is within yourself. Yogananda is a bully and a thief; and he no longer holds any power over my life. Don't be afraid of him. His whole line of gurus isn't worth wiping the arse of your Self! Stand up and fight for Freedom! Except for the fact that you’ve got it all wrong, you are entirely correct, sir. Paradox found, again and again. Yellowbeard, given the issues you raise, I invite you over to the conclusion of the SRF is to blame thread here: pub78.ezboard.com/fsrfwal...D=32.topic I think you may find something of interest there. Also, check out the Wilber thread I’ve just posted, A Spirituality That Transforms. You were the inspiration behind my posting it. Remember when I said I'd hoped we'd cross paths or swords again? I do enjoy our nondualing. And like Punk, I salute you for your candor.
YellowBeard420 Registered User (12/7/03 7:48 am) Reply	Re: Shaking Fruit From the Tree OneTaste wrote: "Remember when I said I'd hoped we'd cross paths or swords again? I do enjoy our nondualing." Yellowbeard's dharma dueling phase has come to a close awhile ago. I don't want to get back into that because in this atmosphere and with these issues, it's just making everyone defensive. And when that happens, we can't communicate effectively. While it worked for me as being very therapeutic, it really doesn't seem to be helping us rid our attachments and to approach Truth as it does in the Zen tradition. Or perhaps I'm simply not exercising the technique properly. So I'm going to drop that approach, at least for now. What I wanna do now is understand what you're saying. Also I want to try to make what I'm saying clear. I think we're simply having a communication problem. When I answered chuckle chela's question on "why did (do) I buy the whole SRF message", I was doing it for therapeutic purposes. I thought it was an important question. So I just worked it out for myself out loud. I had no set conclusion in mind to come to. If I did, the true therapeutic value would be lost. And I think everyone here would have to admit that with my wild ramblings sprinkled here and there on this fine Walrus board, that what I'm really doing is for genuine self therapy. In other words, I'm not trying to convince anyone to buy into "YellowBeard philosophy". I'm simply coming out with what I've found as oppressive, and then listening to the feedback I get. I was hoping other people would take my lead in answering the question, and to come up with their own answers with no specific agenda in mind -- just to let the answers come and to not fear ridicule by others in doing so. Surely if other people did this, they would have a much different story to tell. Maybe Yogananda wouldn't end up as "a thief and a liar" as he did for me at the end of my therapy session here. Whatever comes out in this, it doesn't mean that it's the "truth" of the matter. It like molestation accusations surfacing in a therapy session, sometimes they're based in fact, and sometimes they're merely based on the person's "feelings" on what happened. I'll summarize what I came up with. YellowBeard's path was based on the Zen approach along with the use of entheogens to help peel back the layers of the mind. He had several realizations as a result. The realization was that all people are in actuality the very same Being or Person (purusha). It's like merely being different fingers on the same hand, but that doesn't even apply because there's some separation involved in that concept. Like it's always been described, it can never be adequately put into words. Now YellowBeard is going to be bold here and suggest that this realization has never been up for debate here. These perceptions of Oneness are not ideas that came into YellowBeard's head during his spiritual practices. It was the perception of something which was more real than the computer screens that we're looking at and these words that we're sharing. I'm making this clear so that we all know that Self-realization itself is not up for debate. That would be ridiculous considering the fact that words cannot capture it. Any debate on this would end up as a "p-issing contest" as has been described in this thread. Yellowbeard could not incorporate these into his life effectively. He looked to Yogananda to help him to do that. YellowBeard did not become more peaceful, he became shallow and dependent on an external. YellowBeard being upset over this, rejected Yogananda. But from the attachment created, it was very difficult. YellowBeard eventually became free from the fear of Yogananda (a fear which the readers will not admit that they have). YellowBeard is starting to find peace in just being. This is what came out of my therapy here. I feel Yogananda was a wrong turn that I made. As many have suggested here, perhaps SRF was the wrong way to go for me. But if Yogananda is the right path for the readers, why are they here? Now they say that it's because the SRF organization is corrupt and have distorted his teachings. How YellowBeard sees it is that the corruption is small. We can hear the words out of his mouth on tape. How can the reader judge what is his "true" teachings and what is merely noise or corruption? Is the reader calling what they don't like to hear not his true teachings? And what they like to hear "the holy god given dharma"? Hmm? Yellowbeard is wondering. Some here like to have sex and call that a path to God-realization. YellowBeard likes to drink every once and awhile, but he just drinks, he doesn't call that a "path to the Absolute". Are we projecting our pleasures into the sky? Is Self-realization pleasure? This is getting too long and bringing up too many issues to really digest. Let's just ask ourself a few questions on Yogananda? YellowBeard had problems following Yogananda, and I (the reader) have had some problems as well otherwise I would not be here. If I didn't, I would be on a bliss bunny forum. What are these problems? Is the organization really so bad? YellowBeard can not really tell much difference between what Daya Mata writes on spirituality from what Yogananda wrote. Does this mean Daya Mata and the rest of the oligarchy have hijacked his teachings? Yellowbeard says this is not the case because he's heard Yogananda talk on recorded tapes saying the same exact things. Are YellowBeard's issues much different from the readers? Punk Yogi says YellowBeard has a different personality type than most of the readers of this forum. Is this not simply a way to suggest that what Yellowbeard is saying does not apply to their lives? OneTaste seems to be saying that we are not ready for "There is only Ati." YellowBeard does not underestimate the philosophically impressive participants on this Walrus forum in this way. YellowBeard says that you are ready. And that all you need do is spend a little time with Shka Pastora (see "Talk is Cheap" thread). She will show you what you are ready to see. YellowBeard is not capable, but she is.
Punk Yogi Registered User (12/7/03 1:18 pm) Reply	A misunderstanding *Quote:* Punk Yogi says YellowBeard has a different personality type than most of the readers of this forum. Is this not simply a way to suggest that what Yellowbeard is saying does not apply to their lives? (Yellowbeard) Punk doesn't recall saying that. All he did was try to identify your typology. According to Keirsey, about 10% of the population are NT / Rationals or what I call "abstract thinkers". Punk is an NF / Idealist or what I call the "abstract socials' -- also only 10%. Both comprise 20% of the populaton. I have a special understanding for that 20% I'd like to share with you later. I've got to run More later Edited by: Punk Yogi at: 12/7/03 1:20 pm
stermejo Registered User (12/7/03 4:07 pm) Reply	Re: train wreck Between this thread, Sex and...whateva', plus ANY thread started by Capt. YB. Seems like we got a load of train wrecks recently. Two possible explainations: "you all" are watching too much "reality" TV and/or spending waaayyy too much time on the computer. Could be the holidays, too. I suppose for all your efforts at least one of these wrecks should be investigated. Lots of bodies and evidence to pick through. I'll be a while.
SerenityNow7 Registered User (12/8/03 9:20 am) Reply	Re: Shaking Fruit From the Tree Serenity tiptoes nervously into the thread.... Yellowbeard, this is interesting to me *Quote:* He had several realizations as a result. The realization was that all people are in actuality the very same Being or Person (purusha). It's like merely being different fingers on the same hand, but that doesn't even apply because there's some separation involved in that concept. I've been puzzling about this, is it like each person and thing would be a facet on one huge jewel?
YellowBeard420 Registered User (12/8/03 10:18 am) Reply	Re: Shaking Fruit From the Tree SerenityNow7 wrote: "I've been puzzling about this, is it like each person and thing would be a facet on one huge jewel?" Thanks for your interest. When I spoke of the many-faceted jewel, that was in reference to the experience of the realizations themselves as they were experienced. Enlightenment or Truth itself is the jewel. Every time we have a realization of this Truth (every time we see this jewel), we see a different aspect of it, like catching a glimpse of a single facet on this huge jewel as you described. But the jewel is always the same. It's the perception that we're all really the same person or Self. Every time you look at this jewel, you will see this fact of our existence. But you will understand it in a different way each time. The amount of one's understanding of Truth depends on how many times they've seen this Jewel. SerenityNow7 and YellowBeard are not two different people, nor are we something separate from any of the other readers here or in the entire universe for the matter. There's only one Self. This sounds absurd and is particularly difficult to see especially when we come into contact with people that we feel we do not like. But our separateness is only an illusion of perspective. Our individual differences are the result of different perspectives. We're looking through the mask of our personality and bodies. This blocks the perception of the rest of yourself. We're just looking through a narrow little peep hole. But if you back up, so to speak, far enough out of your individual perspective, you will see that there is only one Self. To say that we're different facets on the same jewel would be close, but that wouldn't be quite right. Each one of us is the entire jewel. No one here is merely a part of it. The entire universe is just one Self. The different facets (people) are merely different perspectives. The Self is infinite, so we have infinite perspectives.
SerenityNow7 Registered User (12/8/03 1:13 pm) Reply	Re: Shaking Fruit From the Tree *Quote:* To say that we're different facets on the same jewel would be close, but that wouldn't be quite right. Each one of us is the entire jewel. This is different than Yogananda's take that we are like a wave of the ocean but not the ocean itself. One with God, but not God. Is God the jewel and does that mean each and everyone of us is God entirely? I personally tend toward the sparks of God idea from Judaism which matches up with the we are the wave not the ocean view. I read a few books on reform Judaism (which I think etchaim is into?) but felt a bit of a wall to getting involved not being Jewish myself. Ah, but that's another thread. In a bit of oddness, my mentioning this jewel was a complete coincidence! I hadn't yet read the part of your post where you used the same analogy until after I posted. This is the second time this has happened. There's some wild Walrus synchronicity here I think.
ugizralrite Registered User (12/8/03 2:11 pm) Reply	Re: Shaking Fruit From the Tree Om Mani Padme Hum, Salutations to the jewel (in the) lotus. See my post on running down the source of a quote in the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali, wherein ultimate reality is compared to a diamond. This was really a seminal insight for me when I read it many years ago. Spirit is usually considered to be ephemeral, but this sutra suggested that spirit was the most substantial of all, like a diamond. Yellow Beard and SerenityNow7 are discussing the gem metaphor and the above famous mantra to the jewel lotus is another example of using gemstone as a metaphor for God, a boundless gem refracting and reflecting the creation within it, and projecting consciousness into the "light show".
YellowBeard420 Registered User (12/8/03 2:20 pm) Reply	Re: Shaking Fruit From the Tree Serenity wrote: "This is different than Yogananda's take that we are like a wave of the ocean but not the ocean itself. One with God, but not God." I'm impressed. That's exactly the core of Yogananda's teachings. You've been able to penetrate and distill those teachings well. I've not seen anyone else here do that. This is why I've had such a problem with his teachings. I do not feel that they're completely based in Truth. > "Is God the jewel and does that mean each and everyone of us is God entirely?" God is the jewel, and each and everyone one of us is God entirely. I use the term "Self" (even though that may sound kind of strange) because the term "God" always implies a degree of separation, being "a wave of the ocean but not the ocean itself" like you described. Perhaps Yogananda had a reason why he chose to describe it in the way that he did. Or perhaps he didn't see this Truth himself and was describing it from his religious training, and that's why we have this discrepancy. I really don't know. > "In a bit of oddness, my mentioning this jewel was a complete coincidence! I hadn't yet read the part of your post where you used the same analogy until after I posted." Synchronicities become noticeable as you get closer to the Truth. They're actually happening all the time, we just normally don't see it. Truth is like a lamp in the darkness, what's already there starts to become visible. An important thing to note though is that sychronicities do not always reveal the right way for us. They're simply revealing that Truth is near and that the Light is reflecting off things around there. That lamp is going to reveal all kinds of things in the dark room. Just because the first thing you might see is a bed, that doesn't necessarily mean that it's time to go night-night.
YellowBeard420 Registered User (12/8/03 4:28 pm) Reply	Re: Shaking Fruit From the Tree Let me rephrase my last sentence. I think it could be easily misinterpreted. Using the example of a chair would be better. If the first thing you see is a chair, that doesn't necessarily mean that it's time to sit at your desk and write a novel. The chair is just a chair, nothing more, nothing less. In other words, when the Light makes a particular synchronistic event visible, that doesn't necessarily mean that there's anything particularly special about that event. The important thing of note is finding out what made that Light itself visible. The Light is what's important, not what it reveals.
SerenityNow7 Registered User (12/8/03 4:55 pm) Reply	Re: Shaking Fruit From the Tree Ugizalrite, a diamond indeed! Do you know when I first wrote my response to YellowBeard I used the word diamond and then deleted it, deciding jewel was better to be more generic. Hmmmm...more synchronicity? Yellowbeard, I had to laugh when you changed the bed to a chair, yes, we don't want to start the sex thread up again, lol! But indeed synchronicity and how best to interpret it has been on my mind a lot lately. I'm at a very significant crossroads in my life in many respects, many more than two roads crossing at this intersection, and I have to admit I've been looking for signs. Yet I'll see something which might be a sign, but I really don't know. Like you say it may just be a visible synchronicity, but not necessarily an Instruction. I have and continue to wrestle with getting my intuition radar to work properly for I fear picking the wrong road...and yet I know that it is my very fear which will make me unable to see the sign that I need to. I'd value any advice you (and others!) have as to how to clear the voice of my intuition. My meditation helps, but I have great internal resistance at times so my practice isn't quite regular yet. And why thank you with your compliment about my distilling that insight of Yogananda's. I don't know that I deserve so much credit though, it is simply out of all that I've learned and read from him, the thing that stands out most vividly to me. I must admit it feels like the Truth you speak of. The idea that each individual is God as a whole is one I must admit to having a harder time with...not saying it isn't so though.

Page 1 2 3 4 5

<< Prev Topic | Next Topic >>

Email This To a Friend
Topic Control Image

Topic Commands

Click to receive email notification of replies

Click to stop receiving email notification of replies

jump to: