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Durgaprasad Registered User (7/9/03 12:40 am) Reply	Chill out with Durgaprasad.....the view from India Guests and All I am new to this board and I am starting this thread to provide an alternative point of view. I am a longtime devotee of PY but I have never taken kriya lessons or been a member of SRF or any religious organisation. I have however lived in India for more than 20 years, many years in Benares and Calcutta, I ve been to all the places connected with PYs life, met Harekrishna Gosh in Gurpar Road once and Lahiri Mahasays grandson Satya Charan Lahiri twice. I know the AY almost by heart and PY has been the most powerful spiritual force in my life, he caused more miracles to happen than I can remember. For me the encounter with PY has been an entirely happy experience, a great blessing and inspiration. He has been most kind to me altough I am no squeaky clean yoga student/spiritual seeker, far from it. I will generally not comment much on SRF as I know not much about it. What I would like to do however is to share the experience of someone who has encountered PY outside an organised framework, has a point of view that is a bit different, some will say heretical and takes the whole spiritual thing with a good pinch of salt..... I recently posted some comments in the 'PY was a hunk...etc' thread and the response has so far been very positive. I am adding those posts below. I am very happy to have this opportunity , I have met only very few PY devotees in India (I wonder why) and I am sure I will meet many kindred spirits here. Bless you alll OM SHANTI Durgaprasad Edited by: Durgaprasad at: 7/10/03 1:11 am
Durgaprasad Registered User (7/10/03 1:06 am) Reply	Re: Chill out with Durgaprasad.....the view from India Reply \| Edit Re: Big Picture, Big Questions--Answers Welcome ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Guests and All I am new to this board and what I read here is sad, tragic, hard to believe and sometimes utterly hilarious........... I will now try and order my thoughts and then share them with you, if I may.......... HARE HARE MAHADEVA Guests and All Of all the many admirers and followers of PY I must be the luckiest one. I have never taken a single lesson, dont practice yoga, never been to Mount Washington, never had anything to do with SRF, I am a dopesmoking womanizing sexanddrugsandrocknroll musician........ and yet I have seen more miracles than I can remember. I lived in India for more than 20 years, 6 years in Benares and 7 years in Calcutta and right from the beginning and to this very day Yogananda has been my guide, inspirator, motivator, protector and above all, a friend. I arrived in India on the great hippie trail in 1975, stoned out of my head, confused, bewildered and not exactly sure where I was going. Enter Yogananda. I first read his book in an old house in the narrow lanes of Benares......and all the doors flung open with an almighty bang, a Big Bang so to speak. In the week or so I took to read AY my life changed forever, it was the beginning of a journey that led to an Indian University and to some of the greatest teachers of India. Many years later I found out , by chance, that the old house in Benares was 5 feet across a lane from the house where Lahiri Mahasay spent most of his life, I could reach out the window and touch the wall. I never took the AY literally, word for word, I always felt that some things were allegorical and that quite a bit of poetic licence was involved. Also I never believed that Yogananda was all lilywhite. But I sure know this : he is for real. Never mind the questionmarks, YOU CANT FAKE THIS, NOBODY CAN. How many times he intervened directly in my life I cant even begin to remember, sometimes discreetly and sometimes in such spectacular fashion as to leave no doubt about about the doer of the deed. At every critical junction he made his presence felt, undeniably, unmistakable. Now I am in Europe, just bought a computer and reading all this stuff on the net. WOW !!!!!!!! Spiritual practice in the Kali Yug is very difficult, oh yes. Even for great souls like Yogananda. Paramhans or no Paramhans, makes no difference.. Money, power, ego trips, sex, confusion, obstacles , miracles....... samsara, maya, Ben Erskine......yes, I have seen a picture of the gentleman and formed my opinion and you know what ? Burst out laughing, no disrespect intended to anyone. Ah, Guruji, little hanky panky......never mind, your private life is just that and none of my business. To you all I can only say this : roll up your sleeves, if you have been hurt, abused, exploited, face it, its not easy , these things can run very deep and hurt for a long time , but it will go away, this sense of being hurt, it will go away. Stay with SRF or leave, it does not matter. If you want to get mad, get mad. Throw the pictures of the gods and the gurus out the window, shout at them, call them names, go on, they understand, at least they know youre not trying to sucker up to them. I have had most of my prayers answered this way. Want to be a monk ? Be a monk. Dont want to be a monk ? Dont be a monk. It does not matter. And when youre finished with shouting and throwing pictures out the window and being a monk or not being a monk , then pack your bags. Go to India, go to Kanyakumari. At night you can see right across the horizon, straight into space. Sit down and just be quiet and look at the stars. And there, on the last rock of India you will suddenly understand what its all about, Gods, Gurus, obstacles , miracles, the whole lot. But you will not be able to speak of it, the answer is not in words, its a state of being, a state of being in love. Then you will become a bhakti yogi. After that you dont have to do very much. You can still practice yoga or you can give it up, it doesnt matter. All that matters is the heart, the kundalini comes to rest in the heart chakra, thats where the journey ends. OM GANAPATI NAMO And then there will be a new dawn, a new beginning and you will bless the day Yogananda came into your life. He tried his best and you tried your best , be happy and be grateful. To have met him is a great priviledge. And when youre in trouble talk to him. You can always talk to him,he never takes the phone off the hook. He may not always be able to help you but he will try, I know that for sure. JAI MA DURGA BHOVANI JAGATJANANI MAHAYOGINI BHAVATARINI NARAYANI NAMASTE BEHIND THE DARKNESS SHINETH THAT GREAT LIGHT. Bless you all, Durgaprasad dawnrays Registered User (7/7/03 9:32 am) Reply Re: Big Picture, Big Questions--Answers Welcome ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Welcome Durga, That is a very interesting story. Certainly there are many roads to bhakti. While I wouldn't recommend drugs, alchohol and promiscuis sex as a life style (didn't work for me) and I never got a chance (probably never will) to go to India (though I'm not ruling it out entirely), you never know. Often times it is our needs, problems and supposedly worldly "failures" that lead us directly to God as in the journey back to our own hearts. And you're right, it does pretty much end there (or start there, as in a new beginning). There's no arguing with love. It just is. The journey is definitely back into your own heart to that "peace which passeth all understanding." There is no way that Yogananda cannot relate to us no matter who we are or where we are. There is no way to fake love. It's the one true thing. Love never fails and always saves. I think that when all else fails, we simply need to remind ourselves how much He loves us, how much we love Him and how much we really love and need each other! I would still totally recommend kriya. If nothing else, it's a great way to get off substances (if that's one of your "challenges") and channel your energy flow. It's wonderful for the body and the mind (some of us have stronger constitutions and tolerance levels than others, for substances). Your lifestyle would also not coordinate too well with raising kids or married life. I would NOT recommend the guilt trip and obsessiveness with it (kriya). It is still a matter of following your own truth as Durga has pointed out. Thank you for your beautiful (if unusual) testimony to the power of love and devotion and good luck in your travels in Europe! dawnrays Edited by: dawnrays at: 7/7/03 3:39 pm soulcircle Registered User (7/7/03 9:54 am) Reply Durgaprasad ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Guests and All, Durgaprasad!!!!!!! We love music and musicians. I probably speak for many on this board, saying, we wish for you everything that we wish for ourselves Dave OneTaste Registered User (7/7/03 5:36 pm) Reply Bravo, Durgaprasad ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I am new to this board and what I read here is sad, tragic, hard to believe and sometimes utterly hilarious........... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ And hilarious they must surely be, harder to believe even still. The sad and tragic part is easy to fathom, alas. Quote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I will now try and order my thoughts and then share them with you, if I may.......... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Not only may you, I, for one rabidly welcome hearing what you have to say. Quote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Of all the many admirers and followers of PY I must be the luckiest one. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Judging from this post, you just may be. It is wonderfully refreshing to read of such joyful self-acceptance, especially here in this land of the lost we�ve all found ourselves in. Given that you are a devotee of Yogananda, but not messed up in and by SRF, I would love to hear your thoughts about it all. Quote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I have never taken a single lesson, dont practice yoga, never been to Mount Washington, never had anything to do with SRF, I am a dopesmoking womanizing sexanddrugsandrocknroll musician........ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I imagine that, if any are going to respond to you, you may be taken to task for your �unspiritual� leanings. Hah! I�d rather spend time in �hell� with someone as �unspiritual� as you are, but accepting of yourself as you are, than to spend the same time in a �heaven� consisting of those living the uptight, unaccepting of themselves and others lifestyle that is fostered by SRF. You say you are in Europe. I lived a year in Prague, and I now am raising a virtual glass of Prague�s finest pilsner to you. Cheers, mate. Again, I�d love to hear more from you, but may I suggest that if you do respond, that you do so in a new thread so as not to be buried in this one. Yours is a voice worth hearing and not one to get lost in the shuffle. Edited by: OneTaste at: 7/7/03 5:43 pm
Durgaprasad Registered User (8/8/03 2:12 pm) Reply	Re: Chill out with Durgaprasad.....the view from India Hello, sorry I have been absent from this board from for some time, been busy and my hard drive crashed as well.... I just found out that the inbox on this board only holds 5 messages, some may have been lost while I was away, if that is the case I do apologize. I have been doing some more reading on this board . Now I really dont wish to offend anyone but the amount and degree of confusion I encounter here is absolutely staggering. I am just sitting here scratching the back of my head and asking myself how could this happen ? I am still digesting what I read but slowly a picture is forming. I will be back here posting today or tomorrow. I have had a number of very welcoming responses to my posts and I wish to thank all those who have written to me and to those whose messages may have been lost I again offer my apologies, I will publish an email address tonight. Edited by: Durgaprasad at: 8/9/03 4:15 am
Xnun Registered User (8/11/03 5:42 am) Reply	Re: Chill out with Durgaprasad.....the view from India >>I have never taken a single lesson, dont practice yoga, never been to Mount Washington, never had anything to do with SRF, I am a dopesmoking womanizing sexanddrugsandrocknroll musician........ and yet I have seen more miracles than I can remember. << Hi Durgaprasad, I have no problems to believe you regarding all the miracles you saw. Right now I am in the process of reading a book ("Death of a Guru" by Rabindranath R. Maharaj) where this man (a member of the highest Hindu caste who had been practicing all these meditation techniques from childhood on) eventually came to the West in the 1960s and learnt that you can have the same effects, that he had attained in years of practicing meditation, also through drugs (such as LSD) and rock music. So, what you are saying actually confirms what I'm reading in this book, or vise versa.
dawnrays Registered User (8/11/03 9:10 am) Reply	Re: Chill out with Durgaprasad.....the view from India Durga, I think that if you take into account message boards in general, it is really not all that confusing. I think that if you are not familiar with the techniques, have never taken the lessons and are not a member/former member of srf, it will probably appear confusing, regardless of how many trips to India you have taken or your personal relationship with Master. It will also be difficult (but not impossible) to take part in discussions that revolve around these aspects. I think if you are focusing on the "negativity and confusion" then that is likely all that you will see. I myself have received valuable help and information from this board, mainly because I do not see myself as "helping" or "straightening out" or "enlightening" people so much as communicating with peers on mine and other paths. I also think that you need to respect where people have been and realize that most of us do have former drug habits and that many of us have been to India, and neither of these things are really the ultimate answer to most of us (and can indeed be a waste of time and a side track). I think it must be obvious to many on this board and on the spiritual path in general by now, that going to India will not solve any problems that you have not been able to take care of in the United States or wherever you happen to live. Master's great gift was to live and die (that is leave the body) here, and I think we need to appreciate that as him saying that he is wherever we are and not to get too attached or enthralled with the Indian culture. I was relunctant to mention this before, for fear of being "offensive" or unfriendly or disrespectful of your spiritual experiences, but I do not think it is wise or very responsible to give the impression to that drugs are "the answer" and that these techniques are a silly waste of time (they aren't) and that all any of us need to is hop a flight to India for "the answer". I have had a drug "path" in the past and have used drugs extensively in my youth (including psychedelic drugs like LSD) and while it has been know to "open up chakras" in this way, it can also send you into a drug induced psychosis, destroy your life and body, etc.. I have seen the effects of drugs in most Navy towns I have lived in. They do absolutely negatively inpact your life, particularly the parenting aspect. I have seen mothers and fathers who put their drug habits before their very own children, not to mention thier jobs and self respect. I think perhaps it is possible, that you are very spiritual and/or have very good karma. I know that your profession as a musician alone, is rather a spiritual path and is also likely to open up chakras, etc. My husband is a musician and I have know many musicians who have this attitude and perhaps even see thier drug use as "enhancing" thier music. This is especially an attitude with jazz musicians (of which my husband is one, being only in the Navy for a steady job and is retiring soon, thank God). I hope you don't find this offensive. It is my true and candid view, speaking only from first hand experience. Love, Jai Guru, dawnrays Edited by: dawnrays at: 8/11/03 9:13 am
Durgaprasad Registered User (8/11/03 6:08 pm) Reply	Re: Chill out with Durgaprasad.....the view from India Hi Xnun and dawnrays Thank you very much for your replies.And thank you dawnrays for being so candid, no of course I am not offended at all. I dont want to enlighten or straighten out anybody, being very far from enlightened myself. Enlightenment seems to me a rather nebulous concept anyway, what does it mean ? Maybe someone can enlighten me as to what exactly Enlightenment means........ About drugs : they are no substitute for spiritual practice ,obviously. It would be wonderful if that were the case but its not, there is no substitute for hard work.And we all know the grief drugs can cause, we have all seen the devastating effects they can have on people and their families and if I have given the impression that I advocate indiscriminate use of them then that was not my intention. There is use and abuse , abuse of anything has negative effects especially in the case of drugs. But I daresay I believe a drugfree society is actually dangerous, goes fanatical puritan and so on . What I was getting at was the obsession with 'purity' with being absolutely perfect and the difficulties that arise when one fails to attain the level of perfection one believes necessary to advance on a spiritual path. Failure to reach a goal that may be unrealistic (especially when a timeframe is set) leads to guilt and confusion. A too rigid framework can be very counterproductive. It seems to me that is where things went wrong for a lot of people who write on this board. There are so many posts here by people who clearly feel suffocated by things being too rigid. Lets take the most talked about topic in this regard, sex. Many highly advanced souls lead celibate lives.Maybe celibacy comes naturally at a certain point but is it a precondition to spiritual advancement ? Lahiri Mahasay did not think so. So often the cart has been put before the horse with disastrous results, we have too many examples throughout history. Some people are natural monastics and I have great respect for them. But I think they are few and I have seen many monks and nuns suffering greatly trying to keep vows they had better not taken in the first place. I just dont think spiritual practice should be that difficult.............. Dawnrays, what I am asking myself is this : meeting the great Yogananda has been such a wonderful event in my life , for almost 30 years he has provided guidance and protection and inspiration, he is one of my great benefactors , this great devotee who has the soul of a mystic and the heart of a poet, why can everybodys experience not be as happy as mine ? Why ? I dont get it. But I have to find out. So I play devils advocate. Bear with me , will you ? Some of the testimonies on this board are heartbreaking. Now about India. India is the heart chakra of this planet. Its the greatest holiest most divine place on earth. Compared with India all other cultures pale. Nowhere else live so many spiritually advanced people in on place. It is hallowed ground. Thats where Yogananda came from and his Guru and Lahiri Mahasay and Babaji, thats where it all came from. So to understand Yoga and Yogananda you have to understand India. I cant help you here. You are dealing with a culture far older than our own. Its about dimensions. Lets get some perspective here. 500BC. The time of the historical Buddha. Philosophy, yoga, metapysics, astrology, ayurvedic medicine at a time we were just moving out of the caves or jumping off the trees in some places. Now you transplant a highly complex yoga system, a product of that ancient culture to America. PY did his best to make this tradition compatible with `American life but he may have been a bit too optimistic. Optimism was one of his great strenghts of course. Can it work ? DO SRF MINISTERS REALLY WEAR ORANGE ROBES WITH CLERICAL COLLARS ? Nobody here talks much about India, I mean about being in India, I once even spoke to an srf minister on the phone and he had never been. That just strikes me as most peculiar. Why do I write on this board ? Because I share with you great love and admiration for Swami Yogananda, thats why. No time to practice yoga I play sitar, fulltime job . Right, I need a cup of coffe now, I love you all HARE HARE MAHADEV
Xnun Registered User (8/12/03 4:17 am) Reply	Re: Chill out with Durgaprasad.....the view from India I certainly agree that drugs are not a good remedy to solve any problem. In fact, I don't even personally know anybody who has a history with drugs any other than alcohol or tobacco. That's why I need to ask my questions here: The author of the book I mentioned above also says that the hippies he met in London and Zuerich in the 1960/70s came back from their drug-induced trips with convictions that every Hindu could subscribe to, i.e. about God, the universe, people, karma, reincarnation, the oneness of all life, vegetarianism, the idea of constant higher development until the oneness with the universe is attained, the idea that every human being has to find his/her own way, etc. So I am wondering what experiences people on this board have made in this regard (those who had experiences with drugs such as LSD). Thanks!
nagchampa2 Registered User (8/12/03 4:43 am) Reply	Re: Chill out with Durgaprasad.....the view from India Xnun, I just began reading a book titled: "Rational Mysticism" by John Horgan. He is dealing with this same subject of drugs and higher states of consciousness as well as quantum physics. I have just started the book and thought it may be of some interest to you. My only experience was that of using magic mushrooms once and a resulting vision which led me to eventually take up meditation.
etzchaim Registered User (8/12/03 5:46 am) Reply	Re: Chill out with Durgaprasad.....the view from India X-nun, drugs will open up, very quickly, and often in an uncontrolled way, the centers of the mind (including the grey matter in the spine) that meditation and spiritual discipline will more gradually open (though some have the karma for more rapid opening). This is why people like to do drugs and why many people become dependent on them. In a way, they can be good because the persons consciousness is expanded and so many of the parts of 'Reality' that the rational mind blocks out or rejects are experienced, but without the discipline of an actual sadhana, whatever it may consist of, the effects are fleeting and sometimes very damaging - either because of the quickness and intensity of the 'opening' or because the long term use of drugs has a debilitating effect or a combination of the two. Most certainly, in the generations that have used drugs in a 'spiritual fashion' in America, beginning with the Jazz generation going as far back as the 20's and picking up strongly with the Beatniks in the 50's, drugs are often the 'initiator' which leads to a spiritual practice. Allen Ginzburg is a good example. He's very involved in Tibetan Buddhism. Gary Snyder (another poet) is also a Buddhist. The Beatles, particularly George Harrison, and to a great extent, John Lennon, contributed quite a lot to the 'dissemination' of Eastern spirituality. There are quite a number of rock musicians who are bringing spirituality into view - in the 80's, when I still attended rock concerts, (other than Dylan, who I still go to see whenever possible, who's currently very involved in Kabbalah and his own kind of Jewish Jesus mix), the Beastie Boys brought Tibetan monks to a Lalapolooza (have no idea how that's spelled.) concert and had them chant at the opening of the concert. I was mistaken for being both a Buddhist nun and a man in drag at that concert, in the same day. Must have been the shaved head with the vintage dress and combat boots... Perry Farrell, who's bands Jane's Addiction and Porno for Pyros, fall into the Art Rock/Alternative vein and founder of the Lalapalooza concerts, is also into Kabbalah and other forms of spirituality. Grateful Dead concerts are awash in spirituality and drugs, and their many offspring (Phish being the most famous) continue in that same vein, not to mention the Rainbow festivals, and other gatherings that have the same kind of 'vibe'. Trance music and Ecstasy (a popular drug) gatherings and parties, also offer the same kind of experience. Most of the people who are into this are not very disciplined and these concerts and gatherings, along with their drug use are often their main sources of 'transcendence'. That's not to say that there are not many meditators and more advanced people who are also among those crowds, but, once I got into my 30's, most of the people I know who had a serious spiritual orientation started to focus more on actual disciplines than on the 'scene' and the music, and go to hear music more out of the enjoyment of it. Dylan still takes me to another level, though. Since I also play music, I can relate to the use of that as a spiritual discipline, much like study and prayer, so Durgaprasad playing sitar all day makes total sense to me as a way to concentrate and develop internally. The visual arts are also a way to work in the physical/spritual plane simultaneously. I use my painting as a form of meditation and prayer. Both Van Gogh and Gauguin developed highly religious/spiritual approaches to working and many of the modernist and post modernist painters had/have the same type of spiritual experiences with their work. In the end, there are many 'sign posts' and tools that can trigger transcendent experiences, but only the discipline, detachment and self introspection of some kind of steady spiritual practice seems to produce the more permanent, healthy results of higher levels of spirituality and most of the 'instant' forms loose their glamor and potency, when the effects of a good daily practice become stronger. The negativity of the more damaging types (like alchohol and certain types drugs) becomes more obvious and use drops off considerably, or completely disappears. The various forms of Shamanism and Tantra both use drugs as part of their path, but here again, most real Shamans that I've come across will drop off usage once a certain level is reached or only use them when specific types of work are being done, never indiscriminately as an 'escape'. Etzchaim Edited by: etzchaim at: 8/12/03 7:01 am
etzchaim Registered User (8/12/03 6:01 am) Reply	Re: Chill out with Durgaprasad.....the view from India Durgaprasad, I totally hear you when you question the mixture of East/West and the shortcomings that it has, but to play Devils advocate back to you, why would western people need to transplant themselves to India? All systems evolve and shouldn't Westerners work towards the eventual development of our own spiritual world? That is my whole intent in this lifetime. I'm a well educated, globalist American. To my mind, my spiritual path has to encompass my whole being, including the 'Western Tradition' I grew up with. To me, America is a perfect symbol of the Post-Modern potential for a dynamic highly advanced form of Mysicism that can incorporate the gifts of the past with the new sciences, and individualized (say Self), almost customized for each individual, spirituality that is beginning to develop, if we could only stop being superficial, projecting our holiness onto the idealized positive 'other', our ugliness onto the equally idealized negative 'other' and stop fighting... Etz
dawnrays Registered User (8/12/03 7:31 am) Reply	Re: Chill out with Durgaprasad.....the view from India Durga, Well, to answer your question, I think it should be obvious by now that most of us were "duped" into following an organization that (for some strange reason) we thought espoused the beauty of Masters teachings and were drawn to it for that reason. Control is very subtle, after all. I started doing drugs in my early teens. Mind you I include cigarettes and alchohol when I say drugs, but mainly I am talking about hard drugs. I also think that some things in moderation (as in the occasional glass of wine, or just one with dinner) are alright. Edgar Cayce even prescribed tobacco for extremely nervous people to control thier blood pressure. The problem is the amount of nicotine added to them by the tobacco companies and the way the leaves are "cured". I also think that pot is useful in certain illnesses (and is probably the least harmful of all drugs, so should not be illegal if alchohol isn't). Many persons with AIDs need to stimulate thier appetite to put on weight, for example. The problem is, with this country (and I wonder if you have been here lately) is that no one seems to be able to do things "in moderation" anymore. You do not drink, you are an alchoholic, you do not do recreational drugs, you are an addict or an abuser, etc.... I believe that may say something for the mental state our country is in right now, not to mention the emotional and spiritual states, and how necessary kriya is, if for no reason other than it is invaluable for completely ridding the body of addictions. Also, healing the brain of these controlling substances and preparing the body and soul for higher states of awareness. Mother Theresa once stated that she felt more of a sense of darkness and despair and "spiritual poverty" walking the streets of the cities here, than anywhere else. I think it should be obvious that one of the reasons Master also came here was that this was the place where he was most needed. I started doing hard drugs in my teens. I tripped many times and smoked pcp as well as alchohol and cigarettes. By the time of was 18, I had a completely out of control kundalini and started going into psychotic episodes, horrible in nature. Twice in my life I have been committed for these and have had several times when had I not voluntarily signed myself in, I also would have been committed. By the time of was 26, I had a severe cocaine addiction that I was dying of (as in it was destroying my immune system, etc). I thought of it as "self medicating" and was actually trying to use it to keep the "nightmares" away. That's when I found Master and the techniques. They absolutely worked in cleansing my mind and body and starting the healing process. It did take many more years and kriyas and I'm still working on it. I think with me the controlling aspect of the organization was particularly hard. I am glad to find this board and see that others also feel the same way. In srf, interaction with others is (oddly) discouraged and looked upon as "lower" and unspiritual. Excuse me, but I think this is BS if we look on God and his glories as being present and active in every individual. It is now I suppose, my difficult karma, to have to see the horrible effects of drugs on mothers and children, being in the navy and traveling around the way we do. There are also alot of young families in the navy. The "crack babies" are children now. Have you ever met one? Have you ever seen a child with severe fetal alchohol sydrome? The funny days of cheech and chong are gone. Have you ever seen an underweight child with athsma and a deformed heart, because his mother smoked and drank all through her pregnacy and continues to blow smoke in his face? How many of these poor children are in foster care because their parents "can't handle them". Have you ever seen a woman in her 30's that looks like a wasted cancer patient in her 50's, with no mind left to speak of, because she has spent her life smoking crack or doing some other hard drug? I pray every day that God will send us kriya teachers. Ananda at least certifies teachers to teach kriya in places like al-anon. srf makes no effort to reach people, preferring to see it as an elitist path only for "special people". I have seen many "pure in heart" and wonderful people and children, completely wrecked and destroyed by drugs, and it's just getting worse. Many are simply put on antidepressents and thier children on ritalin or "kiddy cocaine" by their own doctors. Is this the answer? Please, please. Don't everybody go to India. Let us try to spread kriya to help our poor country! I'm sure it is a wonderful place. But many I have known many indians, also. An Indian friend told me once that the average person in India is no more spiritual than the average American. Also many come here to start businesses, as the Indian government is so mired in beaurocracy and red tape that it is nearly impossible to get anything done. Also Durga, I wonder if that minister you talked to (who had never been to India) might have thought it was "strange" that you had lived in India for 20 years, and yet never practiced yoga (or have you?) dawnrays Edited by: dawnrays at: 8/12/03 10:47 am
Durgaprasad Registered User (8/13/03 1:32 am) Reply	Re: Chill out with Durgaprasad.....the view from India Hello again Let me just answer Xnuns post first. The book you mentioned sounds interesting, I will try and get hold of this because I am very interested in the crosscultural experience of an Indian coming to the West. With regard to LSD I have not yet made up my mind, its effects can be most inspiring but a lot of people have had terrifyng experiences and I would advise extreme caution and in case of doubt, dont. I can believe Mr. Rabindranath Maharaj found it to be a very spiritual experience but his background surely has a lot to do with this. It amplifies what is already there and that is the problem. Its impact on an entire generation has been tremendous but its still too early to tell, maybe 50 years from now we will be wiser. It has certainly been a catalyst of some kind. Some people have undoubtely been propelled in a spiritual direction as a result. An example that comes to mind here is Baba Ramdas, Richard Alpert. He turned up in Dharamsala one day when I was living there along with a filmcrew doing an interview with the Dalai Lama. He came to my house one evening with his entourage and I played sitar for him until 2 in the morning and we all had a wonderful time. I was very impressed with his levelheaded attitude to things spiritual. I was even more impressed when I found 500 Rupees under my typewriter next morning. So for him it worked but that may not be the same for everyone . So be very careful here, generally I would say leave it alone. When I started this thread it was not my intention to dwell on the subject of drugs but now that we are here we might as well talk about it. Its obviously a matter that arouses interest and some passion. Dawnrays, I seem to have ruffled your feathers quite a bit. Relax, my dear. Be assured that I greatly respect your opinions and I can absolutely understand your feelings about drugs after everything you had to go through.I also think your honesty and openness about your path is remarkable. But please read my last post, I say it again, we all know the devastating effects drugs can have on the lives of people.I have lost friends, seen them suffer and die, both in Europe and in India, I know what you are talking about. Now let me make clear what I meant when I introduced myself as a dopesmoking musician. I smoke pot and I get gloriously drunk every now and then on French wine,( the expensive kind when I can afford it) and I make absolutely no apologies for that. I am a liberal and I cant stand puritans. I am totally against hard drugs . Opiates are basically painkillers and should be used as such. Cocaine is highly addictive and personally I dont get anything from it I cant get from a good cup of coffee so it never seemed worth bothering with. I am very suspicious of synthetic partydrugs. However I dont condemn people who get addicted to hard drugs, there are always underlying causes, deepseated traumas, abuse, hurt or pain of some kind. I see people who take hard drugs as people who need a painkiller of some kind. Now let me tell you what pot and LSD did for me.In one word, liberation. I grew up in Switzerland in a strictly roman catholic family, a very conservative background. Where I come from people dont go to India to study sitar or read books by Indian yogis. They become doctors, enineers, civil servants, corporate managers and so on.Status and money are the measure of all things.Even my father who became a classical pianist is very conservative and ended up as a broadcasting executive. By the time I was 14 that environment had become so limiting and oppressive I simply had to bust out. I felt an overwhelming need to free myself from the mental and spiritual straightjacket I was in. First I started smoking pot and then I started practicing yoga. This proved to be a very potent combination. Suddenly I dared to question the values and the religion I was brought up with. With every joint and every asana , with every page of the Gita and every Ravi Shankar record this sense of freedom grew but it still took quite some time until I felt strong enough to go my own way no matter what.So I began traveling around Europe, testing my wings for the big trip, the trip to India. Finally when I was 19 I took the plunge , got on a train to Istanbul and then hitchhiked through Turkey, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan all the way to India. When I crossed the border I knew I had come home. This was the land of Krishna, of the Buddha, of Mahatma Gandhi, the punya bhoomi as Swami Vivekananda called it, the land all souls who may one day attain moksha must travel to. Indeed, when Mother India takes you to her almighty bosom there is no way back. Thats what smoking dope did for me, it broke down the barriers, set me free, a catalyst in the literal sense of the word.It made me throw caution to the wind, helped me disregard petty concerns about material security and so I became a pilgrim and thats what I have been and will be for this lifetime. If it was not for my daughter who goes to school here in England I would go back to India for good tomorrow and if the airplanes stop flying I would walk, without a penny in my pocket if need be. Dawnrays, do you see where I am coming from ? I started yoga when I was 14, I have spent a lot of time with yogis, Tibetan monks, Zen monks, I even lived in a cave in the Himalayas at 15 000 ft. for some time, (nearly froze to death), I can still sit in padmasana for two hours without moving. But thats not important, I have nothing to prove to anybody. The reason I am writing on this board is a different one, there is a strange force at work here, its something to do with Lahiri Mahasay but I am not quite sure what it is, not yet. And dont believe for a moment that I think kriya yoga is all silly nonsense, look what it did for you, it probably saved your life. There is a reason why I never took srf lessons and I will explain that in my next post. To nagchampa and etzchaim I send my thanks and greetings , I will reply to you in my next post also. Etzchaim, we have lots to talk about, from Dylan to Indian Ragas and back. really looking forward to this. Far between sundowns finish..... isnt he great, the minstrel guruji ! I send you my love JAI MA BHOVANI
dawnrays Registered User (8/13/03 7:09 am) Reply	Re: Chill out with Durgaprasad.....the view from India Durga, I didn't mean to sound so "ruffled" either. I'm a mom (it's not a job, it' an indenture) so I feel like I have to give my "drug speech" every now and then. THERE IS a strange force at work here. Every time I decide to stop posting, I get a "nudge" in some form, not to. I know it is also that way for etzchaim. She is a converted Jew and a yogi, and that combination is very new, interesting and informative for me. I honestly think Master and Lahiri want alternative views. Many people in srf do not realize what moms have to go through. We are excluded from day to day activities and are not really allowed to be part of srf, it being so child unfriendly. Also, excuse the expression, but I come from sort of a "white trash" element of society. Mine and my husband's family are from Oklahoma. We are also in the military. Many people from our kinds of backgrounds are very put off and afraid of yoga and alternative religeon. So much so that we have both been outcasts in our own families for many years. It's hard when you're trying to use kriya and yoga to reach out to people and srf as an organization is so snotty and seems to cater to people with money and influence. I know "the old time religeon" does not work any more, because half the people I meet are on drugs (I live in a lower middle class, navy town). I really can't suggest to these people that they "go to India" when they can barely pay their bills (like us) and have families to think about. Can you understand this? They need to feel loved and accepted in our society and for something to come to them. I myself would have been too superstitious and influenced by my background to be interested in it, had I not been up against a wall and practically on my deathbed. I really don't feel like anybody else should have to go through this kind of trauma. But otherwise, I play the autoharp (at least I did when I had time) and like cajun music. I am just not all that interested in the Indian culture. The main reason I will never go there is because I don't feel attracted to it. There are places I would like to go when I get the time and the money, but India is nowhere near the top. I've heard about it and tried to feel interested and it just doesn't feel natural. I love the Indian friends that I have met (mainly through srf) and Indian food, but that's about as far as it goes. Otherwise though, I am very interested in your point of view. I am glad to see you weren't into hard drugs and it sounds like an interesting story (so far). PS - One happy concession the navy has made lately, is that they now teach some forms of yoga. At least they make the classes available. I don't think they are mandatory but it's an option (for families, too). They are absolutely desperate to get sailors off substances (mainly alchohol abuse and 45 percent of all marines smoke, very high compared to the national average.) I have also noticed more yoga classes popping up, even in this out of the way navy town... so we are making some headway. dawnrays Edited by: dawnrays at: 8/13/03 8:45 am
etzchaim Registered User (8/13/03 7:45 am) Reply	Re: Chill out with Durgaprasad.....the view from India Durgaprasad is here because of Lahiri Mahasya, Dawnrays says: "I honestly think Master and Lahiri want alternative views." I'm here because of the lineage. Occasionally I feel like I shouldn't be here, because I'm not from SRF, but then I think about people who really have been trying to grow spiritually being in pain because of the mismanagement of an organization and I think about the work that the lineage is trying to do and what the potential is, and so I keep posting. Having a really big mouth, an aweful lot to say, and a shortcoming in not always knowing when to shut up, is also a factor but, I'm trying to learn to make that a useful set of character traits despite myself. There's definately something afoot... It's recently been just exactly 50 years since Yogananda passed. We're about a year or so from that point right now. Etz
Durgaprasad Registered User (8/18/03 2:15 am) Reply	Re: Chill out with Durgaprasad.....the view from India Dawnrays, Etzchaim and All, Its great being in touch with you, really enjoying this frank exchange of ideas and opinions, very stimulating. Sorry about the delay in answering, will be back here tonight, life just gets busy sometimes. D.
etzchaim Registered User (8/18/03 7:07 am) Reply	Re: Chill out with Durgaprasad.....the view from India Durgaprasad, also enjoying the conversation. I'd love to hear some about the Indian ragas. I play a very different style of music than you - mostly old Blues, Bluegrass and other Appalachian Folk, Alternative Country and the real stuff (Hank Williams, etc.), and, oddly enough for the uninitiated, Medieval Spanish and Provencal (the Catalonian Provence...) Troubador. I'm trying to push Flamenco backwards to where it began, in the streets of Barcelona and Toledo and the rest of the Troubadors. I have a strong interest in the pre-classical modes and the Middle Eastern/North African forms. Both the Spanish Arabic music and Indian music go into places that European scales don't travel, and can't. Most of us in the Eastern Midwest (I'm in Ann Arbor) and the East Coast got power back sometime over the weekend. It was wonderful, though, while it lasted. The stars could actually be seen on Thursday night. I miss them already... Etz.
etzchaim Registered User (8/26/03 1:12 pm) Reply	Re: Chill out with Durgaprasad.....the view from India Durgaprasad, oh Durgaprasad!!!! Where are you? Are you still busy? Check this out: www.serendipity.li/baba/gb_art.html I thought of you when I read this.

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