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SayItIsntSo Registered User (5/29/03 8:07 pm) Reply	Christ and SRF I stopped checking in here a long time ago, and posting due to some really mean attacks on my character... But someone was asking me today why I was hooked into SRF for 30 years. I said, "well, I was convicted." And then I remembered this board and thought I'd see how everyone was doing. Yoganada was a Hindu, and the Christ "tag" was added later to draw more members. For years Christ wasn't on the altar, and I'm sure someone here knows when it was added. SRF put a spin on the Christian Bible, not unlike the Mormans. And we all know that link. It's interesting SRF only quotes from the new testment, and very selective passages. And they only quote from the St. James verson, not the NIV or Amplified bible...just an old verson no one can understand. I know I'm happier now and find peace in a simplier lifestyle.
Lobo Registered User (5/29/03 10:23 pm) Reply	Re: Christ and SRF Glad to hear that you are happier now. As for being "hooked into SRF for 30 years" with regards to PY, Christ and his teachings, and SRF, there are a couple of things that come immediately to mind. 1) Someone who has spent 30 years with SRF has surely (hopefully?) read the Autobiography of a Yogi. If so that someone would have already known the answers to the questions regarding PY's linking the "original" teachings of yoga propounded by Sri Krishna in the Bhagavad Gita with the "original" teachings propounded by Jesus the Christ in the New Testament. PY was specifically taught to deeply ponder and meditate upon Christ's teachings by his guru as PY's role in coming to the West was to show the underlying "oneness" of these two Christna's teaching. In other words, as detailed in the AY, PY was sent by Babaji and his own guru to America, and it is said by Christ as well, to show sleeping Christians how they could reawaken to the deeper teachings of Christ (lost and replaced with pagentry and dogma long ago) in their own lives through the practice of kriya yoga, which Krishna extolled in the Gita. 2) Christ's likeness was always on the altar from the beginning. At least that's my understanding. It was Krishna's likeness that was only added after PY's mahasamadhi by the SRF organization. 3) PY's lesson's are replete with his interpretations of Jesus the Christ's teachings. In fact his published in the SRF magazine in serialized form his commentary upon the entire New Testament. SRF has not published it in book form despite the many members deep desire that they do so. When (if?) they ever do you might want to pick up a copy, as will I. 4) So in conclusion, PY was simply being an obedient disciple of his guru, his adiguru Babaji and Christ, by spreading and linking the original teachings of Christ and Krishna through showing the deep, underlying oneness of their teachings. Hope that helps.
parabastha Registered User (5/30/03 5:55 am) Reply	Re: Christ and SRF I have an old Self-Realization magazine, issue April-June 1967. There is a photo of the "new Retreat Chapel" of SRF Colony at Encinitas, and Krishna's likeness IS NOT in the altar yet! 1967--15 years after Master's mahasamadhi! I think it was added in the 70's, maybe is response to the Hare Krisna movement. Edited by: parabastha at: 5/30/03 5:58:34 am
MastersChela Registered User (5/30/03 2:50 pm) Reply	Re: Christ and SRF *Quote:* PY's lesson's are replete with his interpretations of Jesus the Christ's teachings. In fact his published in the SRF magazine in serialized form his commentary upon the entire New Testament. SRF has not published it in book form despite the many members deep desire that they do so. When (if?) they ever do you might want to pick up a copy, as will I. The lessons you refer to here HAVE been printed in book form, but by the Amrita Foundation. The older ones (volumes 1 and 2) are out of print now (and QUITE expensive on half.com), but are still avalible. Volume 3 should be availble at a good New Age bookshop for around $25. The title of the series is "The Second Coming of Christ"
Lobo Registered User (5/30/03 8:47 pm) Reply	Re: Christ and SRF Para, Yea, I attended Fullerton during those years (late 60's) and your correct. My (admittedly faulty) memory tells me that it was the late 70's or even early 80's before the photograph of the statue of Bhagavan Krishna was included on the altar. The explanation as I remember it is that SRF was then well accepted in the West; which (they say) is when PY planned to put the photo on the altar. Around that same time they also began calling the churches, Temples, with the same explanation. Interesting that Ananda and K continue their altar with the original PY altar, leaving Krishna off. They make a rather big deal out of this, "true to PY" similar to the "a" in Paramahansa. I can see both sides. SRF claims that PY said Krishna was one of the SRF guru's, thus meriting inclusion on the altar. Many others (Hindus) would find that belief very strange as Krishna left his body thousands of years ago before any of the kriya yoga (SRF) guru's were here on earth (except maybe Babaji). K claims, and I think Durga as well, that PY said that Babaji was Krishna (with PY being Arjuna and Rajasi, Nakula)! If true, then it's redundant to have the same Being in two bodies on the altar, which is maybe why PY left Krishna's likeness off the altar originally?
parabastha Registered User (6/2/03 6:13 am) Reply	Re: Christ and SRF Lobo, If you remember, in the Kriya tape usually played at the end of Kriya initiations, Master prays to "Jesus Christ, Babaji-Krishna, etc..." I have the original talk, now published by SRF in its last tape under the title "Self-Realization: The Inner and Outer Path," where Master also invoques Babaji-Krishna in a prayer (alas, that part -- and other ones also -- was edited out). I have a friend -- formely a Hare Krisna -- who said he entered SRF because it has Krishna on the altar; he would never join to Ananda because they don't have a Krishna picture. So, it seems both organizations, each one in its way, are serving to a purpose. Maybe it is a good thing anyway.
Lobo Registered User (6/2/03 7:50 pm) Reply	Re: Christ and SRF Para, It's been so long ago that I honestly can't remember if Premamoy played that tape you refer to during the kriya initiation that I attended at Mt. Washington. Strange, too, that you say it is the same tape now being marketed by SRF as "Self-realization: The Inner and Outer Path." I'm not surprised that you point out that SRF edited out any of the words that our founder and guru stated at that time which now apparently conflicts with SRF organizational dogma: heck, that's one of the prime reasons this board exists! And it is of course sad that the BOD feels they possess such spiritual power that they can freely decide which of his words he truly meant to use, words that they should've questioned to his face when he said them! The story you've included about your ISKCON friend. I've read other's on other boards say that they would never have become SRF members if Jesus hadn't been on the altar. It seems we all have out personal conditionings and biases.
parabastha Registered User (6/3/03 6:19 am) Reply	Re: Christ and SRF Dear Lobo: Just to clarify: the Kriya tape IS NOT the same tape now published by SRF. Master's talk in the new tape is another talk, but it was condensed, and some parts of it were removed. Very sad, as you said... IDF
Lobo Registered User (6/3/03 9:28 pm) Reply	Re: Christ and SRF Dear Parabastha, Thanks for correcting me! As I say I do not remember Master's talk being played at kriya initiation I attended. I've heard, actually read on I think yoganandarediscovered.com, that SRF possesses tapes of kriya initiation ceremonies that PY himself conducted. Man, think how great that would be to have that to listen to. It would cement that relationship, hearing the words our guru used to initiate devotees, help us to understand just what he said to new disciples, the words he chose. But, of course that latter item must be the reason that SRF doesn't allow kriyabans (anticipating the objection that they couldn't release it to the general public because he explains the technique (don't know if that's true but had to cover all bases)), to buy the tape for help with their kriya practice and arouse devotion for the guru. Speaking of that tape, Self-realization, we discussed, does it seem odd that on the tape PY was apparently upstairs dictating his words into a tape machine whilst Rajasi and Dr. were downstairs leading the meditation? Was PY ill at the time, or were there other reasons? Anyone know?
parabastha Registered User (6/4/03 5:57 am) Reply	Re: Christ and SRF Dear Lobo: For all these years I attended to several Kriya initiations, in my own country and also at SRF Convocations, and at the end they played a tape with Master's talk in his last Kriya initiation (in 1951, I think). Of course, that part in which he explains the techiniques is not played. Regarding to your question, here is what is written in the book "A Testimony of Love and Devotion," by Mary Peck Stockton (this account describes the last time her mother was in PY's presence): "January 10, 1951 Wednesday, about 2:30 p.m. I saw P.Y. then on the third floor of Mt. Washington about 2:30 p.m. during meditation period. Jeanette and I saw Master Paramhansa Yogananda, our Guruji, in the hall in the WHEEL CHAIR pushed by Mrs. M. Lewis, Dr. M. Lewis' wife, and Durga (Mrs. Darling)." -- (page 169) Best regards
Lobo Registered User (6/5/03 6:59 pm) Reply	Re: Christ and SRF Thanks Parabastha, As regards the issue of PY's health toward the end of his life, it has been explained by SRF monks that he was working out disciple's karma upon his own body. He suffered especially with his knees as I understand it. Anandamoy tells the story of helping to lift him from a chair and hearing PY groan when picked-up. Anandamoy says that his experience of that moment was total bliss. I've often wondered about this. If PY was/is able to easily move between vibratory levels thereby making him immune to any bodily pain at will, why then did he groan? And to use your example, why was he in a wheelchair? There is the story of when the "spiritual wishing-well" was delivered to Mt. Washington and PY helped to off-load it. In the process it apparently feel onto his foot, causing immediate pain and swelling. He had a speech to deliver, however, and even though his foot wouldn't fit into his shoe properly he still went on with the speech by riding in the car down to where the speech was being held and then "Divine Mother took the swelling and pain away" (words summarized) while he gave the speech and returned to the car, then the foot swelled up again. I think he is being humble here in this example. If he needed to have Divine Mother do something (thinking dualistic here) he would not have been able to count on giving that speech and that doubt might have inhibited his faith, thus maybe causing him to cancel. Using the tape, Self-realization, as an example: why would he be upstairs during this meditation. Surely he would have been able (with Divine Mother's help) to at least walk from the elevator to the chapel? Was it because he needed to use a wheelchair at that time of his life and did not want others to see him dependent upon that? In the booklet PY, In Memorium, we see pictures of him on March 6th, 1952 being with the monks at the Lake Shrine playing the organ, eating lunch, and standing on the path feeding the fish. Maybe, then, he was dependent upon the wheelchair but could use his yogic powers to put his consciousness/awareness beyond the mental pain of the karma of his disciples manifested upon his legs and knees; as he demonstrated both at the above function and the next day at the Biltmore?
parabastha Registered User (6/6/03 5:24 am) Reply	Re: Christ and SRF Dear Lobo: These are very good questions. I have no answers myself, but here are some quotes that could help us to understand or at least guide our thoughts to the right direction: "By a secret method, the yogi unites his mind and astral vehicle with those of a suffering individual; the disease is conveyed, wholly or in part, to the saint's body. Having harvested God on the physical field, a master no longer cares what happens to that material form. Though he may allow it to register a certain disease in order to relieve others, his mind is never affected; he considers himself fortunate in being able to render such aid. "The devotee who has achieved final salvation in the Lord finds that his body has completely fulfilled its purpose; he can then use it in any way he deems fit. His work in the world is to alleviate the sorrows of mankind, whether through spiritual means or by intellectual counsel or through will power or by the physical transfer of disease. Escaping to the superconsciousness whenever he so desires, a master can remain oblivious of physical suffering; sometimes he chooses to bear bodily pain stoically, as an example to disciples.... "The spiritual law does not require a master to become ill whenever he heals another person. Healings ordinarily take place through the saint's knowledge of various methods of instantaneous cure in which no hurt to the spiritual healer is involved. On rare occasions, however, a master who wishes to greatly quicken his disciples' evolution may then voluntarily work out on his own body a large measure of their undesirable karma." -- Autobiography of a Yogi, chapter 21, 1946 ed. Sri Kriyananda, in his "The Path," chapter 36, tells us: "India Center (as our Hollywood property was now named) and the SRF Lake Shrine were, in a sense, Master's outward gifts to the world. There was another gift, one infinitely more precious to us, his disciples, which he bestowed on us during the last two years of his life. "Great masters have the power to assume others' karma, much as a strong man might take onto his own body blows intended for a weaker person. They can sustain a considerable number of such karmic "blows" without themselves suffering any noticeable ill effect. Occasionally, however�especially toward the end of their lives, to help their disciples through years of spiritual effort without the Guru's physical presence�they assume large amounts of karma. At such times their own bodies may suffer temporarily. "It was such a gift that Master now bestowed on us. His legs became affected. The result was that, for a time, he couldn't walk. It was an "astral disease" primarily, he explained to us. He described a frightful array of demonic entities that were wreaking havoc on his body, especially the subtle body, though the physical body took some of the punishment also. "I held my mind down to the body during the worst period," he told us, "because I wanted to experience pain as others do." "Daya Mata, in profound sympathy, cried out one day, "Why does Divine Mother treat you like this?" "Don't you dare criticize Divine Mother!" Master scolded. Personal likes and dislikes formed no part of his nature. His only will was to do what God wanted. "Even at the height of his illness, he could still walk whenever he needed to. Sometimes it was with divine assistance. In August 1951, he was scheduled to speak before a large convocation of members on the tennis courts at Mt. Washington. Unwilling to publicize his condition, which he viewed as a sacred offering to his disciples for their spiritual growth, he determined to walk when the time came. The car took him as far as the edge of the courts. The door was opened. Master lifted his legs with his own hands, and placed his feet on the ground. "Instantly, a brilliant light surrounded my body," he told us later. "I was able to walk with ease." We saw him go up onto the lecture platform, stand through his long lecture, and walk back unaided to the car. "Once back in the car," he told us, "my legs became helpless again." "Carry my body," he laughed one day, as we bore him up a flight of stairs, "and I'll carry your souls!" "Another time he remarked smiling, "This body is not everything. Some people have feet, but can't walk all over!" "Gradually his condition improved. One afternoon I was helping him into his car. "You are getting better, Sir," I exclaimed thankfully. "Who is getting better?" Master's tone was impersonal. "I meant your body, Sir." "What's the difference? The wave protruding from the ocean bosom is still a part of the ocean. This is God's body. If He wants to make it well, all right. If He wants to keep it unwell, all right. It is best to remain impartial. If you have health and are attached to it, you will always be afraid of losing it. And if you are attached to good health and become ill, you will be always grieving for the good that you have lost. "Man's greatest trouble is egoism, the consciousness of individuality. He takes everything that happens to him as affecting him, personally. Why be affected? You are not this body. You are He! Everything is Spirit." As Master's condition improved, he began spending more time again with the monks." Hope these help! Edited by: parabastha at: 6/6/03 5:26 am
Lobo Registered User (6/9/03 6:52 pm) Reply	Re: Christ and SRF Dear Parabastha, Thank you very much for taking the time to post those excerpts. Each are on-point, with the guru's words in both most instructive. As someone who struggles daily with illness that has pain as one of its main manifestations I often think about these issues, searching for spiritual insight that will be an aid and guide. The Master has made the journey and crossed over to the Other Side of the Ocean from which no-one returns the same as when he set out, which gave him the ability to turn off physical and emotional pain at will, as you've shown with these quotes. Although it seems that for the Master even, (for fun?), let his mind linger long enough on this plane in order to experience the torture that his body was being subjected to. How about that! Sri Ramakrishna also suffered greatly at the end of his life with cancer of the throat. I remember reading some of M's observations in Ramakrishna's biography concerning the latter's attitude during this most trying of times. It seems that he also let his mind experience the pain, as he sometimes would ask the disciple's and the doctor's why this was happening to him; almost like a child asking his mother or father. But during this same period he also gave great teachings to the disciples of such sublime purity and devotional insight which demonstrated his total aboveness of his physical suffering. Such a play. What is sure is that if one tries to make it rational and logical, the purpose that is, one will end up a very frustrated person (been there!). God's play, that's all.
SayItIsntSo Registered User (1/7/04 10:14 am) Reply	Re: Christ and SRF I might have been incorrect with the picture of Christ, and, Yes, I'd read the AY many times. But aligning SRF with Christ is speaking out of the side of one's mouth, as the teachings of Jesus have nothing at all to do with the teachings of SRF. I've heard high-ranking brothers make jest of Christians, even in a Convocation environment. Hence; if SRF has an alignment to Jesus, how can SRF hold themselves above His teachings? I'm not a born againer, but I'm somewhat familiar with the Bible and Christian doctrine. SRF is behind the times preaching from the old St. James version of the Bible--but it's convenient to do so. The newer versions that have been interpreted by scholars of all faiths in a collaborated effort and they distance SRF even further from their belief that they are aligned with Jesus Christ. Regarding PY's illnesses. I am not aware of PY performing any miracles in his lifetime on himself or others, other than moving a salt shaker on a dinner table and spontaneously speaking English on a voyage. Does anyone here know of any miracles he performed, or can you quote any of his writings where he said he could perform them?
Xnun Registered User (1/8/04 9:30 am) Reply	Re: Christ and SRF SayItIsntSo, I agree with your take on the relation between SRF/PY's teachings and the Christian Bible. The Christian Bible teaches that Jesus is God in the flesh, i.e. not a created being like all the rest of us but the Creator. PY/SRF teaches that Jesus evolved from the same "muddy puddles" (hey, thanks to whoever put this term on this board recently ) like everybody else but reached perfection after a long time of trying. Those two views are not reconcileable, no matter what shrewed arguments are brought up to explain this away. When I left the ashram, I had no intention to leave the "path," but when I discovered what the Bible truly teaches, as compared to what PY/SRF teaches that the Bible says, my trust in PY was severely shaken. How could I believe anything else he had taught to be true if even his interpretation of the Bible was not true? Many years ago, when I had tried to read my grandmother's Bible and came across this passage in Matthew 24 where Jesus warned of false christs and false prophets that would come, I didn't understand one word and only was scared. But after I had left the ashram, on the same day that I came to understand what the Bible really says, I also came to understand these words of Jesus, and I was even more scared, or rather shocked. It's not like I hadn't heard all the statements by PY/SRF regarding the "true, spiritual" meaning of the Bible, and since then I have also come across many more statements of "scholars" which were all aimed at discrediting the Bible. (I'm not going to spend the energy to try and prove them wrong, but many others have, so it's only a question of looking also the other way.) But if I let the Bible speak for itself, I don't find it wanting. And I'm saying this after having read it cover to cover twice now, not only bits and pieces all taken out of context. My answer to all its critics is: If the Bible is really the word of God, as it claims to be, then God would surely have found a way to preserve it for all generations, in spite of all repeated attempts to destroy it, discredit it, twist it, and water it down. And regarding this nice word-play of mixing Krishna and Christ into "Christna," well how many here know what "Christ" really means, that this word has nothing whatsoever in common with the meaning and roots of the word Krishna? �Christos� is the Greek translation of the Hebrew word for �Messiah� (mashiah) � as the Old Testament was originally written in Hebrew and Aramaic (and the Messiah was first promised in the Old Testament), which was later translated into Greek. The word per se means �anointed one� and points to priests, prophets, and kings who were anointed with oil and thus consecrated to their respective offices. The great Messiah, according to the Bible, is the one who holds all three offices eternally. The meaning of the word "Krishna," on the other hand, is not as easy to define. I'll include a few examples of the confusing variety one finds checking the internet. But I think not matter which one of these explanations is chosen, it's quite clear that none of them has anything in common with the Messiah/Christ of the Christian Bible: 1) "There are various derivatives of the name of Krishna. One comes from the Sanskrit, meaning "to drag, to give pain." In this sense Krishna symbolizes the Kali-yuga, the Age of Suffering. The context of this meaning is that Krishna takes away and devours the suffering of his devotees in this descending yuga. Krishna also means "black" in the Vedas and later. One of his earliest roles was that he was the dark enemy that the white Aryan conquerors had to defeat." 2) "Krishna (Sanskrit: black or all-attractive one) is an important deity in the Hindu religion. In most Hindu traditions he is a god himself, and he is also the eighth avatar (incarnation) of Vishnu. The story of Krishna's life on Earth is told in the epic poem Mahabharata, which contains astronomical references dating it to the 15th century BC." 3) "Rama and Krishna are the well known Avatars of God. The words mean respectively, one who gives happiness under all circumstances and one who is attractive and who ploughs the field of the mind for the growth of spiritual wisdom."
redpurusha Registered User (1/8/04 11:09 am) Reply	Re: Christ and SRF xnun, The bible may be the word of God, but it was written down by people (of various levels of realization). Just think how much Yogananda's writings have been tampered with (written only 50-75 years ago), then how much more could have the bible been tampered with and/or parts excluded or twisted? (ie. The gospel of Thomas) You make a good point that Chrsitianity of the bible is not exactly the same as the Christianity taught by Yogananda, there is truth in this. There are many views on Yogananda's mission, but this is for sure: he did not exclusively focus on the teachings of Jesus, on Christianity. There is a good book that deals with esoteric Christianity called "An Eagle's Flight" by George Abbot Burke that I recommend. There are many meanings of the words Christ and Krishna, if anything, they at least sound similar, but more importantly the meanings have been given, in both the christian and hindu bibles respectively, to mean divine or universal awareness. In the bible Paul writes of being "one in all and all in one in Christ... One body in Christ... etc." and in the Gita we find universal consciousness attributed to the name Krishna (among many other meanings like the soul, the historical figure, God-head, etc.) I'm not an expert in the orgin of these terms, but if one guy says he's got "all in one" universal consciousness, and another guy on the other side of the world says he's also got universal consciouness, then they must be logically talking about the same thing, call it Christ or Krishna or whatever. And if there not, then they must be in different universes then I have no answer for that.
ranger20 Registered User (1/8/04 11:18 am) Reply	Re: Christ and SRF >"I've heard high-ranking brothers make jest of Christians, even in a Convocation environment." I can think of various reasons why the brothers might put down unenlightened Christians. For instance, sometimes they say things like this quote, which I cam across yesterday: *Quote:* �You are ... God�s representative. You are God�s stand-in, a God carrier. You are precious; God depends on you. God believes in you and has no one but you to do the things that only you can do for God. Become what you are.� -- Archbishop Desmond Tutu
chela2020 Registered User (1/8/04 1:31 pm) Reply	Re: Christ and SRF SayItIsn'tSo, Many Hindus accept that Christ was an avatar, not just SRF. When I came to SRF I didn't like Christ on the altar, which I am sure had to do with how I felt about Christianity. Since leaving I spent a lot of time reading other Hindu books that had to do with him, even reading "The Fifth Gospel", which rather took away my belief in the gospels as coming from him. By the time the Jesus scholars got through with the gospels, it looked like 85 percent of what Christ was supposed to have said was either said by someone else before him, or others afterwards. The book rather freed my mind from feeling a need to reconcile my feelings towards Christianity. I feel now that all religions have truths in them, have good in them, and are paths to God. I, too, feel that Christ was put on the altar to draw Christians. But you will find many Hindu and Buddhist teaching in the New Testament, especially John and Acts. I also don't believe that Christ used Kriya per se. He could have used any meditation technique to reach God. As far as I know, John the Babtist, who was his guru, may have just touched him and caused him to go into samadhi. Or maybe he was so evolved, he went into it naturally from childhood.
Xnun Registered User (1/10/04 5:10 am) Reply	Re: Christ and SRF Redpurusha, >The bible may be the word of God, but it was written down by people (of various levels of realization)). Just think how much Yogananda's writings have been tampered with (written only 50-75 years ago), then how much more could have the bible been tampered with and/or parts excluded or twisted? (ie. The gospel of Thomas) < Hmm, this is a good point. But think of it, if God is the creator and sustainer of this universe, and if He had decided to have certain information recorded on His own terms, would He have needed people with high levels of "realization" to accomplish His goal (see 1Cor 1:20ff for a possible answer)? And would He have been obliged to include everything human beings wrote and wanted included, like the gospel of Thomas and many other gospels and epistles that never made their way into the Biblical canon, or would God have been sovereign and powerful enough to see to it that exactly and only the information would make its way into the Bible that He wanted there? After all, mankind has the freedom to write whatever wherever else they want. Wouldn't God have been powerful enough to keep this one message to mankind as pure and complete as He wanted it? -- But if the Bible is not the word of God, but the word of man, who would give a hoot for it that long after it was written, except for some history freaks maybe? Just look around, how many teachings claim to teach the Bible, how much importance is given to this book to this day, even though many people just want to twist it and pile their own teachings on top of the Bible until you can't recognize it anymore. Really strange, don't you think? So much trouble just about an ordinary book? But to get back to your observation that "it was written down by people," I think this is just another point which shows that the Bible is unlike any other book. To explain what I mean, I'll include a quote from another website: "This harmony exists in spite of the fact that it was written over a 1600-year span, during 60 generations, and by more than 40 authors from every walk of life including kings, peasants, philosophers, fishermen, poets, statesmen, scholars, and others. The Bible was written in a variety of places and customs, during times of war and peace, on three continents (Africa, Asia, and Europe), in three languages (Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek). Yet, when the Bible is analyzed as a whole, it speaks with amazing unity and harmony about hundreds of controversial subjects about which there are hundreds of opposing opinions! Our science books, which represent "truth" about science and nature as we know it, are obsolete in as soon as five to ten years, and must be constantly revised because of "theories" or concepts that are in error! ... If you took ten authors, all from one walk of life, one generation, one place, one time, one mood, one continent, and one language, and just one controversial subject (the Bible speaks on hundreds of subjects in harmony and agreement), would the authors agree? No! You would have a conglomeration!" -- Found at www.newtestamentchurch.or...Bible.htm, and there is much more information there, but be warned: it's all in favor of the Bible. >There are many meanings of the words Christ and Krishna, if anything, they at least sound similar ... < Yes, there is also a strikingly similar sound of "Dankesch�n" and "donkey-chain" -- what's the spiritual meaning of that? >...but more importantly the meanings have been given, in both the christian and hindu bibles respectively, to mean divine or universal awareness. In the bible Paul writes of being "one in all and all in one in Christ... One body in Christ... etc."< This is pretty far fetched, definitely not based on anything Paul taught. See, this is exactly the point I am talking about in this thread. As long as I looked only at the verses as quoted in PY's teachings, I believed everything he said. But later when I saw these verses in context, a completely different picture appeared. Look at the complete passage from which you might have been trying to quote (1Cor 12:12 and/or Eph 4:4-6). Paul, for one, wrote all his epistles to Christians, that is people who believed in the Christ Paul and others preached, who had accepted Christ as their Lord and Savior, and who were therefore baptized by the one Spirit into the one body of Christ, that is the church which consists of everybody who belongs to Christ (cf. Eph 5:23 Col 1:18,24). And there is not one single reference to or implication of a "divine or universal awareness." If anyone wants to claim that this would be the (hidden) meaning of the term Christ, I cannot hinder him. But let him stand up for himself and not put it into Paul's mouth. >...if one guy says he's got "all in one" universal consciousness, and another guy on the other side of the world says he's also got universal consciousness...< Did Christ say that? Not in my Bible anyway. In my Bible we are asked to believe in the PERSON of Christ, not in a form of consciousness. The Jews understood this. They wanted to kill Him for making Himself equal to God (see John 10:33) and calling Himself the King of the Jews (see Luke 23:2,3). In my Bible we can have fellowship with God by trusting in the flesh-and-blood substitutionary atonement of Christ for our "bad karma" (in case people like this better than the word "sin") on the cross (cf. John 3:14,15 + Num. 21:4ff). To "lift up" in John 3:14 is an euphemism for the crucifixion, which was generally understood in Jesus' time (see John 12:32-34). -- By the way, Israel is not that far away from India, definitely not on the other side of the world. >There are many views on Yogananda's mission, but this is for sure: he did not exclusively focus on the teachings of Jesus, on Christianity.< That's right, just enough to rope in people from a Christian cultural background. Someone might say that I am taking things too literally here, but then, why "spiritualize" the Bible in that way, and not, say, a recipe for chicken soup? Because the word "Christ" doesn't usually appear in a recipe book? Well, just let's take a Greek one, and I'm confident we'll find at least the verb "chrio" (= to daub, smear, anoint) from which the word "Christos" was derived. Edited by: Xnun at: 1/11/04 5:31 am
SayItIsntSo Registered User (1/10/04 7:01 pm) Reply	Re: Christ and SRF I'd like to invite everyone to read an article about SRF and Christanity that I came across a few years ago. It's well written by an ex devotee. I'd like to hear what others think of this. www.equip.org/free/DS213.htm
soulcircle Registered User (1/10/04 9:28 pm) Reply	pantheistic esotericism in the Bible SayItAintSO, Thank you! Find myself reading the article above and looking further into the meaning of "pantheistic esoterism," and Py and SY'spresuppostion of it, though I grasp it immediately in a superficial way. from "SRF in Light of the Bible," in the second half of the above article: *Quote:* Yogananda and Yukteswar presuppose pantheistic esotericism in the Bible and then find it there, showing no respect whatsoever for historical context or the author�s intended meaning. Dave Edited by: soulcircle at: 1/10/04 9:29 pm

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