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divine gypsy
Registered User
(6/15/05 8:28 am)
Reply
ezSupporter
 Re: irreconcilable differences
I don't look at Daya Ma anymore as an all-seeing soothsayer, either. However, I thought it was supposed to be the case that Vietnam and the sexual revolution were the leading edge of her "black cloud." Or was it Kennedy's assassination? It sounds like her team is still feverishly positioning her for infallibility to me.

To me, the conundrum is best handled with "God works in mysterious ways" and "Look to the beam."

Edited by: divine gypsy at: 6/15/05 9:30 am
metheuse
Registered User
(6/15/05 11:51 am)
Reply 		FYI
Just in case anyone cares, metheuse is my whimsical melding of bemused and Methuselah: a bemused oldtimer. NOTHING to do with a meth user!

Bosco Hurn
Registered User
(6/15/05 7:43 pm)
Reply 		Re: irreconcilable differences
Paramadas says,
"Quoting methuser from 6/8/05:

[quote]My prayers to PY still work, always have. If I'm in some desperate strait, he comes and rescues me, sometimes miraculously. The techniques still work, always have, at least if you make an effort. And most of Yogananda's advice is good advice.[/quote]

He's right. If you pray to Yogananda, you get wise guidance and loving comfort. You do NOT feel that he's an incompetent idiot, which is certainly what he sounds like in those old East-West articles. Sorry, folks, I can't reconcile these two contrasting views of the Guru. Anybody got any brilliant ideas for explaining this conundrum?"

My comments:
I think God/Great Spirit/Whoever hears all prayers. It doesn't matter to whom they are addressed. I used to pray to various others and always felt heard and very often answered. So is Metheuse so sure that it's PY who's answering the prayers, who's doing the rescuing? Is Paramadas so sure it's not conditioned reflex that's giving him the feeling he's not talking to an idiot? Or if not conditioned reflex, is the "wise guidance and loving comfort" coming from another source?

I believe that if our hearts & minds are sincere, our prayer is focused, our karma's right, etc., we'll get answers even if we are praying to a form who turns out to be bogus. Many times the answers lie within us anyway. Isn't this true? That all we have to do is "increase our knowing"?

Metheuse says most of PY's advice is good advice and that's true but does that make PY a guru or an avatar? Yes, the techniques work but again, does that make PY guru/avatar?

I think gurus and avatars must be held to a higher standard. PY has not met that standard in the East-West passages quoted in this thread.

Also, Fay Wright's "dark cloud" has been mentioned. Please people, THIS IS NOT A PREDICTION! Sorry for the screaming all-caps but this one really gets me. Anyone who can't see the totally bogus, open ended bet-hedging inherent in such a "prediction" or "vision" is a fool. To have validity, a real prediction must be a tad more specific than seeing a "dark cloud".

Paramadas
Registered User
(6/16/05 8:14 am)
Reply 		Aslan vs. Tash
Replying to Bosco:
Your argument actually has some very strong literary support. I recall a wonderful story in CS Lewis's children's series, The Narnia Chronicles, in which a very devout man worshipped Tash, the image that his people traditionally believed represented God. His people also considered Aslan the lion to be the devil, so when this devout man offered to sacrifice himself to save his people and Aslan showed up, the man thought he was done for, but when Aslan was loving and kind, the man could not understand. He was always taught that Aslan was Satan, who would be cruel. Aslan the lion (who represents Jesus in Lewis's tale) explains that the purity of the man's devotion is what mattered, not the image to whom that devotion was addressed. The author, CS Lewis, is of course teaching his readers a very important spiritual lesson, namely that it is the inner qualities of devotion that matter, not the images on your altar. So, Bosco, hats off to you. I think you've got it right.

Edited by: Paramadas at: 6/16/05 9:00 am
moyma
Registered User
(6/16/05 3:24 pm)
Reply 		Re: Aslan vs. Tash
the thing I find strange here is that one article, written 72 years ago, that we know very little about...... could throw a devotee into such tailspin....All these people have written in and said ,
SEE ! SEE ! Yogananda isn't what he said he was !!!
I find in it someone with a lot of insight, that made a statement I don't really understand.....thats all, the rest of what he said....about the future WAS true.....the comment about germany's past, WE DON"T KNOW WHAT HE WAS COMMENTING ON when he said Hitler gave uplifting guidence,
We know by the NEXT statement that he KNEW Hitler was BIG trouble for the world........Yet people have this knee jerk reaction to "Uplifting guidence"....TO WHAT ? WE DON"T KNOW ! Amazing !

divine gypsy
Registered User
(6/16/05 3:57 pm)
Reply
ezSupporter
 Re: Aslan vs. Tash
Moyma, it wasn't just one article and it wasn't just the comment on Hitler. But, even if it were, it's very hard to justify someone who is supposed to be omniscient using that phrase in regards to one of the biggest monsters in recorded history.

You're certainly right that we don't have the context to put the quote into. But still, all I can conclude is that Master just wasn't omniscient at that time. Maybe SRF is just losing control of PY's perfect [whitewashed] image, and a more realistic picture is emerging. He can still have a huge role to play in our individual lives and in moving the world toward a higher level of consciousness.

But these were his own words published during his life by his organization.

metheuse
Registered User
(6/16/05 9:36 pm)
Reply 		Mussolini
Quoting from the Interview of Swami Yogananda, quoted originally on first page of this thread by DG:

"A master brain like that of Mussolini does more good than millions of social organizations of group intelligence."

To Moyma, and any of PY's defenders: the quote about Hitler is offensive enough, but Mussolini wasn't far behind Hitler in his brutality and evil, and THIS is how Yogananda characterizes him? A master brain that does more good than millions of social organizations?

For crying out loud, what sort of !@#$%^&* would characterize Mussolini this way? He was a Mafia thug!

Bosco Hurn
Registered User
(6/16/05 9:41 pm)
Reply 		Re: Mussolini
But hey, he made the trains run on time!

metheuse
Registered User
(6/16/05 9:50 pm)
Reply 		Stalin
Quoting from the same series of articles originally quoted by DG on the first page of this thread--this quote comes from an article, "What is the best polity?" by S.Y>--

"Now Stalin, Kremlin, and the Russian Soviet Government are carrying on a great experiment, called a communistic or Bolshevik form of government. It remains to be seen whether or not it is successful."

At the time of the writing of that article by Yogananda, tens of MILLIONS of people were being starved to death. And PY wonders if communism will be "successful."??? If PY did indeed know about these crimes, (which by the way constitute the single largest mass murder in the history of the human race--you'd think a God-tuned soul might just be aware of something like that), then Yogananda should be rejected out of hand as obscenely insensitive to human woe (see BH's articles above). If PY did not know about these crimes against humanity, then he should be rejected for failing the test of attunement with God.

moyma
Registered User
(6/17/05 12:08 pm)
Reply 		Re: Stalin
At the risk of being "Hung by the neck till dead".
The REST of the article that ran in the next innercultue mag
talks about all the starving and the woes of the russians, the Best policy was about India and the Best way to run a country,Every country that he brought up was "uplifed in spirit "and then he talked about what was wrong with them.
But I can see I am beating a dead horse with this.
there is way more right in what he said than wrong, NOBODY at that time would be as stupid as you make him out to be !
It would be like someone saying the kamer rouge in cambodia were good for the country ! The man just is not that stupid.
You have taken this way out of context, because you know how it turns out....Things were not set in stone in 33.
Its one thing to say he wasn't omnipresent , but he wasn't dummmmm either.


metheuse
Registered User
(6/18/05 1:09 am)
Reply 		taking things in or out of context
"Richard Nixon was not a crook" This would constitute a direct quote which was taken out of context, if the second half of the sentence read, "until he became involved in the Watergate affair." If you quote an entire sentence, or better yet, an entire paragraph, then the surrounding text creates its own context. FYI, those of us who have been trying to present the facts of Yogananda's inexcusable praise of the three most brutal dictators of the twentieth century have NOT been taking PY out of context.

And to reiterate for the last bloody time, the fact that "things were not set in stone in 33" is an utterly irrelevant remark when you recall (we've said this how many times already in this thread?) that Yogananda presented himself as an all-seeing avatar, one who could see all past and future events, just like his Guru ("the strawberry affair").

And yes, it does appear inescapable that Yogananda was indeed that "dummmmm", at least in political affairs.

The truly worrisome part, for any SRF devotee, ought to be the following: if Yogananda's understanding of politics was so utterly pathetic, what about other subjects closer to home? How can we be sure he didn't get other things wrong? I mean, if we had enough realization to be able to answer the important questions of life ourselves, we wouldn't be leaning on a Guru, but since we don't yet have that realization, we need to trust someone...or do we? That was a straight question. I really don't know any more.

stermejo
Registered User
(6/19/05 12:07 pm)
Reply 		Re: How about that Gandhi!
UsedYogi wrote:
"I was the one who mentioned Sikkim and Assam. As far as I know, India decided to take over Sikkim so they did."

That kind of WAY oversimplifies the issue. No worries. Being Òbrought upÓ in SRF I tend to oversimplify the facts of a case myself.

After reading Liberty or Death by Patrick French, my take on IndiaÕs situation is this:

Since 1857 (Sepoy Mutiny), the CrownÕs hold on the Government of India loosened to the point of chaos. The Congress politicians realized that no one was really governing the country it was more of a milking operation. Their goal of a United country may have been realized if not for their own egos. Even if a compromise could have been struck with the Muslim League, a huge portion of India was independently governed by landowners, kings feudal lords and whatnot who did not have the moral ability to release their hold on rule and without whoÕs accession a United India would not be possible. The Maharajas, and Nawabs would have to go.

Anyhow here is what French says about Sikkim, Assam and Bhutan:

ÒIn the 4,000 sq. mile state of Tripura in Assam, which was ruled by an ancient royal family which could be found in the Bengali epic the Rajmala, the monarch was a child, and his politically inexperienced mother signed way his kingdom on his behalf. ...

The British had left a host of territorial anomalies for their successors to confront, such as the mountain kingdom of Sikkim on IndiaÕs northern border. Its ruler, the Chogyal, had never been obliged to swear loyalty to the British Crown. However, in February 1948 Menon persuaded him to sign an agreement linking Sikkim to the Foreign Affairs Ministry in New Delhi, and two years later it became a protectorate of India while remaining sovereign. Relations were often strained, and in 1975 Sikkim was invaded and annexed on the orders of Indira Gandhi. The neighboring kingdom of Bhutan also had unusual status. The Bhutanese monarch received a subsidy from India, yet he paid an annual tribute to the Tibetan government. In August 1949 he agreed that he would be `guided by the advice of the Government of IndiaÕ in matters of defense and external relations, and received some disputed land in Bengal in return. The treaty has held to this day with the King of BhutanÕs control over his territory almost intact.Ó--Liberty or Death by Patrick French (1998)

Of course, my real point is that India is not the Disneyland of spirituality PY and SRF want to portray. More like the Dizzyland. The history is far more bloody and tragic. DonÕt get me wrong there are plenty of Rays of Hope. But SRFÕs sunday school picture is completely unacceptable. I think the Walrus (the board not the ÒindividualÓ) is helping all of us to see that.

metheuse
Registered User
(6/27/05 5:14 pm)
Reply 		links proving strong Nazi links to Christianity
A friend of mine recently sent me a couple of links that show the strong connection between Hitler's Nazis and the Christian church. Here they are:
www.nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm
www.secularhumanism.org/l..._23_4.html

My friend also sent the following note along with the quotes:

"Rick Santorum (R-PA) stands on the Senate floor claiming that Germany was so brutal and immoral because they had Separation of Church and State. THAT IS A BOLD FACED LIE! The Nazis had DEEP ties to the churches which gave them their seemingly moral legitimacy. Please visit the two links below for proof. Though it had many Catholic leaders (including Hitler), the Nazi Party relied heavily on Protestant support. Protestants had given the Party its principal backing during the years leading up to 1933 at a level disproportionate to their national majority. Evangelical youth was especially pro-Nazi. It has been estimated that as many as 90 percent of
Protestant university theologians supported the Party. Indeed, the participation of so many respected Protestants gave a early, comforting air of legitimacy to the often-thuggish Party. So did the frequent sight of Sturmabteilung (S.A.) units marching in uniform to church."

On page two of this topic, I had suggested that the Nazis used propaganda more effectively than the Commies. If you read thru those links carefully, you will see with what skill the Nazis manipulated Christians into believing in their brutal regime, a regime which certainly would have made the gentle Jesus cry, to see his name used to perpetrate such hatred, intolerance and brutality.

Once again, this clever ruse by the Nazis was apparently never penetrated by the divine wisdom of the great guru Yogananda. Makes one wonder, and weep.

divine gypsy
Registered User
(6/27/05 6:25 pm)
Reply 		Re: links proving strong Nazi links to Christianity
Anyone who would like to help defeat Rick Santorum, Tom DeLay, etc., can contribute here:
www.moveonpac.org/give/05.html?id=5712-2396112-VRwABafQTR9NkF.e.mZIVg&t=1

Edited by: divine gypsy at: 6/27/05 6:30 pm
metheuse
Registered User
(6/27/05 8:45 pm)
Reply 		link showing Naziism in the USA
Please check out the following link:
www.ericblumrich.com/14.html

Turns out, the USA is currently displaying all 14 characteristics of a Nazi regime. Supporting the MoveOn cause may be our best hope. Thanks for the link, Divine Gypsy.

dontknownothinbouthistory
Registered User
(6/28/05 9:03 pm)
Reply 		Getting pre empted
:D George Soros

the good bad and ugly

George Soros in some ways put move on ...on the map

He gave them 10 million.

{George Soros has pre empted some major progressive tendencies around the world and presented a "liberal" face in his pr campaigns, many times and with large budgets.

All the while he has bilked people in more than just a couple countries out of billions by manipulating currencies.....

The articles by indy media and others ( please use teoma.com or google search engines) show him to be, in his less publicized life, to be driven to accumulate massive wealth and to be working for the CIA or be one step better than that, successful in CIA pursuits, more so than the CIA might dream of.

Think twice about move on, they channeled major commitments, of blood sweat, tears, moeny, time and sacrifice to what........a Democratic candidate

The Republicans can't rule, they bankrupt the next generation with huge tax cuts for the rich and have made this country technically bankrupt

The Democrats can't win, Clinton won in 92 because Perot siphoned off enough votes from his opponent. In '96 Clinton won as a "dream Republican candidate" in a Democratic package. It was a nightmare to good (i.e. the wealthiest among the Nasdaq and NYSE) Republicans in '96 that Clinton would not be re-elected.}

Just saying think twice about move-on.

And while we're at it let's be a little less critical of leaders who took this country into fascism, and find the honesty to criticize ourselves for letting them do it!

Food for thought ;)

Edited by: dontknownothinbouthistory at: 6/28/05 9:05 pm
divine gypsy
Registered User
(6/29/05 8:02 am)
Reply 		Re: Getting pre empted
Republicans are corrupt fascists, Democrats can't win, and MoveOn = George Soros so think twice about it.

Uh, OK... I've thought twice. Now, I think I'll go make that contribution that I've been putting off. Sure enjoyed GWB's riveting speech last night.

Edited by: divine gypsy at: 6/29/05 8:02 am
moyma
Registered User
(6/29/05 8:50 pm)
Reply 		Re: Getting pre empted
Oil spelled backwards is Iraq....you think we would be fighting terror there if there was no Oil ?.....Funny He never mentioned that.!......all in the name of freedom! and sept 11

ugizralrite
Registered User
(7/1/05 1:06 pm)
Reply 		Re: How about that Gandhi!
Good post Stermejo. Over the years I grew to understand that the Bengali yogis and their missionaries were selling as you say a Disney-like scenario of India and its philosophy. Your posts are interesting, and it's good to see you lurking about.

Paramadas
Registered User
(7/4/05 1:01 am)
Reply 		MoveOn = our best hope
I am loathe to make fun of someone's handle, but dontknownothinbouthistory is just asking for it. Dear sir or madam, I daresay you could not have chosen a more appropriate handle, and you might have added that you are ignorant of currency markets and politics, not that these blazingly obvious facts kept you from spouting off. I can at least concur with your final statement, but in a democracy, there is just so much one can do when the majority has gotten an idea into its head. That's the downside of democracy. Sometimes a majority will lead us in the wrong direction.
For the record, George Soros did not bilk anyone of anything. It's called trading, and it is part of the natural flow of money around the world. It is not evil, or immoral, or anything of the sort. Trading in currencies, like any other type of trading, takes two to tango. Someone has to be a buyer and someone else has to be a seller, and both parties have to be willing to engage in the transaction. If Mr. Soros wanted to buy a currency, someone had to be willing to sell it to him. No coersion is possible, since the whole deal occurs electronically, and when you offer to buy, it is impossible to tell who the seller is. The fact that Mr. Soros is a savvy trader, and has a better idea when sellers will be interested in selling and buyers interested in buying does not in any way make him a bad person. In fact, from the few interviews I've seen of him, my impressions are that he is a very intelligent and caring person. For example, he criticized America's cowboy approach to foreign policy, suggesting that maybe it was time for America to grow up and adopt a more mature approach to solving problems than invading tiny foreign countries. There ARE alternative approaches to foreign policy, such as the diplomacy that Secretary of State Albright formulated for dealing with North Korea, a policy which was bearing fruit just when the Texas cowboys in the Bush administration came in and ruined everything.
Bottom line, please try not to criticize stuff that you don't understand.

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