two nuggets from me and a buddy.......warning

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SRF Walrus > Not the Main Stream > two nuggets from me and a buddy.......warning
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soulcircle Registered User (12/17/03 2:54 pm) Reply	two nuggets from me and a buddy.......warning Zup Guests and All!? warning, upon entering the following two sites, you will be branded a conspiracy nut and hauled off to the public square and burned as an itch [dubya left out intentionally, he does the burning] www.larouchepub.com/pr_la..._affr.html www.whatreallyhappened.com/remains.html I was informed the first link didn't work as first entered. It does now, Thurs morn 1:30AM PST Dave the rave .........................................ing lunatic Edited by: soulcircle at: 12/18/03 1:28 am
Ringbearer7 Registered User (12/22/03 10:53 am) Reply	Re: two nuggets from me and a buddy.......warning from whatreallyhappened.com: "Since the supposed Arab hijackers couldn't even fly small planes solo, according to the testimony of their flight instructors, and since remote control devices had proven effective, the process of elimination again points to the only conclusion remaining: 9/11 was planned and executed by Mossad and the DoD in order to justify military action in the Middle East..." I knew the JEWS were behind it! ;-) Seriously, the skills required to fly a jet into a building are in all likelihood a small subset of the skills required to be a good pilot, e.g. being able to take-off and land were not essential to the 9-11 terrorists. Anyways, a quick search on google comes up with the following sites with info on 9-11 terrorist's flight training and ability: www.ainonline.com/issues/...spg20.html and abcnews.go.com/sections/u...pects.html I can't help but wonder why on Earth the whatreallyhappened.com article would attempt to intentionally mislead the reader on this point and implicate the Israelis? Maybe there really is a conspiracy here and perhaps you are an unwitting abettor?
rachelcorrie Registered User (12/22/03 9:37 pm) Reply	i read your two websites Ringbearer7, Soulcircle and rachelcorrie are both me, Dave I like keeping the memory of Rachel Corrie alive [she sacrificed her life in front of an Israeli bulldozer] to be honest I am not sure in the second quote below what "point" you are referring to *Quote:* Seriously, the skills required to fly a jet into a building are in all likelihood a small subset of the skills required to be a good pilot, where do with know that flying planes into a traget as such is a small subset of skills, if the planes weren't on auto pilot? *Quote:* why on Earth the whatreallyhappened.com article would attempt to intentionally mislead the reader on this point Dave Edited by: rachelcorrie at: 12/22/03 9:41 pm
Ringbearer7 Registered User (12/22/03 11:02 pm) Reply	Re: i read your two websites "I like keeping the memory of Rachel Corrie alive [she sacrificed her life in front of an Israeli bulldozer]" I like to keep alive the memory of the Israeli women, children, and seniors murdered at weddings, bah mitvahs, restaurants and shopping centers, etc. These people, unlike Rachel Corrie, were not willing participants. At least Rachel Corrie's death, in some sense, was her own choice. Edited by: Ringbearer7 at: 12/22/03 11:38 pm
Ringbearer7 Registered User (12/23/03 2:10 am) Reply	Re: i read your two websites "where do with know that flying planes into a target as such is a small subset of skills, if the planes weren't on auto pilot?" Here's a silly theory: Maybe the terrorists did not kill the pilots immediately. Perhaps the terrorists used the pilots to get within "kill" distance of their targets and only after that slit their throats? The pilots would have almost surely cooperated if they were led to believe that it was a "traditional" airline hijacking situation. Doesn't this seem a bit more plausible than the U.S. DoD installing (without the knowledge of the airlines) heretofore unknown remote control technology on the aircraft and sending one of them hurtling into its own headquarters? Hell, if the evil geniuses in DoD had any sense whatsoever they would have sent those jets into the Statue of Liberty and the U.N. headquarters. By doing this they would have quickly won over the American people, the U.N. and even the French to their nefarious schemes - all without causing any damage to the Pentagon and greatly reducing the damage to the U.S. economy. Hmmm...maybe I should send them my resume ;-) Edited by: Ringbearer7 at: 12/23/03 1:47 pm
chrisparis Registered User (12/23/03 9:55 am) Reply	Re: i read your two websites I like keeping the memory of Rachel Corrie alive [she sacrificed her life in front of an Israeli bulldozer]" Yeah, thats PART of the story. The rest is the bulldozer was bulldozing shut tunnels that were used by Hammas to smuggle explosives and sometimes even bombers into Israel. Several of the recent bombings with the highest civilian body counts were arranged using these tunnels that Rachel Corrie gave her misguided life trying to keep open. So it wasn't like she was standing up to a bulldozer thst was about to break ground on a new illegal settlement. There are plenty of people in this world who truly deserve sympathy, admiration, etc., for taking a firm stand against evil and for good, and who have lost their llives in the attempt. Rachel Corrie was NOT one of those people.
etzchaim Registered User (12/23/03 10:03 am) Reply	Re: i read your two websites Thank you Chrisparis. Ambulences are also being used to carry explosives. When you hear a story about how Israel is stopping and searching them, this is why. They have robots which locate the explosives and carry them away from people and then the soldiers can detonate them safely. They've been making videos of this, so it's documented. Women and children are used as "sick" people to ride in the ambulence in an attempt to deceive the Israelis, so they can be blown up more properly during their religious holiday services or meals and while out to dinner with their families. Deception needs to be revealed as deception. Unilateral peace does not work, no matter how hard you try. Edited by: etzchaim at: 12/23/03 10:09 am
Ringbearer7 Registered User (12/23/03 1:58 pm) Reply	Re: i read your two websites "The rest is the bulldozer was bulldozing shut tunnels that were used by Hammas to smuggle explosives and sometimes even bombers into Israel..." Oh, I love this "Hamms-using-tunnels-to-smuggle-in-explosives-to-blow-up-Israelis" conspiracy. How can people believe this sort of thing? Everybody knows that these tunnels were really built by the CIA and the Mossad... ;-)
Ringbearer7 Registered User (12/23/03 2:19 pm) Reply	Re: i read your two websites Let's see if we can find some pictures of that sweet Rachel spreading peace and understanding in the world: www.news-star.com/stories...w_7.shtml# www.factsofisrael.com/loa...print.html Ahhh - that's so cute - burning a little crayon-drawn U.S. flag drawn while oozing hate from every pore of her being as impressionable school children look on. Surely the Palestinian children need more good role models like Rachel showing them how to hate the U.S. and Israel with proper zeal. Yes, that's what we need - more irrational hatred in the Middle East. And we gotta start these children young - before they have a chance to develop their rational faculties - otherwise there's a chance they might eventually succumb to temptations for compromise and reasonsed dialogue. Thank God for Rachel Corrie and others like her! Edited by: Ringbearer7 at: 12/23/03 2:25 pm
stermejo Registered User (12/23/03 6:24 pm) Reply	Re: i read your two websites HO, HO, HO, Holy Toledo! Small subset of SKILLS? Auto pilot? What hoot! Just how much skill does it take for a 8 year old kid to drive the family car throught the garage? Maybe you haven't been paying attention to the 100 year anniversary of flight; pitch, yaw and roll. Still the same after 100 years. Check this web site: www.incredible-adventures...at_az.html google "fly a fighter plane." Now tell me, what do ya' gotta know, huh? And you, the other Mate, Get a handle on the jandle. Dump the phoney Dutch Ice Cream, Hagen Daz. Try Ben and Jerry's.
soulcircle Registered User (12/23/03 6:51 pm) Reply	who do you know? Hello Guests and You All, What are your experiences with any friends who have in the last year spent time in the camps of refugee Palestines? what is the purpose of the wall? share yours I'll share mine who has the 200 nuclear bombs and who has no territory because i was Israel's strongest supporter, I am interested with the sympathy that remains for the state of Israel vs. the stateless largely unemployed Palestines. I have read extensively and do not take most opinions at face value. Please share more about yourselves. Until this year, I was concerned for solely Israel's survivial. I have read Zackar's (how is his name spelt) trilogy. I believe the last one was titled Diapora. I feel Judaic by sympathy and life experience. Then I started reading both debka.com as well as opposing views. How we piece this complexity, this puzzle together is no small task. It is not possible to have boundaries and a Palestine state? Show me one single map that has been sketched. It is not possible for Israel to have peace without a Palestine state existing in peace? Please tell me that you are well read enough to know that a second "wall," is now under constructiong to completely enclose Bethlahem. A sad Merry Christmas? Dave Edited by: soulcircle at: 12/23/03 6:53 pm
etzchaim Registered User (12/23/03 8:03 pm) Reply	Re: who do you know? Who do I know? I know Jews of all sorts. Americans, Israelis, French, Iraqi, Irani, South African, Syrian, etc., etc.. Oh yeah, I forgot Australian and Canadian, and South American, um... and a Mexican. They vary in politics, some far left, some far right. Most towards the middle somewhere. The left is shrinking, the right is gaining. There's an odd split between being more right wing on Israel and more left wing about everything else, unless you are talking about the Ultra-Orthodox I know, and even many of them are left leaning on American, right leaning on Israel A good portion of the people I know are children of Holocaust survivors, or they or their parents were forced out of an Arab country, most of the "forebears" had lost everything they owned, some even lost their sanity. Do you know anyone who has forced tranquilizers down her mothers throat in the middle of the night because she was reliving some camp experience and screaming hysterically, hyperventilating? I do. I know a guy who escaped with a few belongings into Israel out of Iraq about about 30 years agos, and a woman from Iran who escaped persecution with her family about 15 years ago. About an equal number of Jews from Arab lands were assimilated into Israel as the number of refugees out of Israel. The UN set up the refugee camps and any attempt to make the living conditions better for those people has been stopped by the PLO (who have prevented people from moving into buildings built by Israel, it's better to live in a squalid camp, right?), by Arafats refusal to spend any money on infrastructure (people loyal to him have houses and large bank accounts, his wife lives in Paris), and the destruction that Israel has caused in reaction to the current Intifada. You know the Nazis were visiting the Arabs, Jerusalem Arabs, during the war at the Arabs request? They wanted to solve their Jewish problem. There are indeed some diehard leftists I know, none of them Jews from Arab countrys, btw, who, despite the obvious, continue to blame Israel for everything, refusing to see the madness in the Islamic world right now and the obvious corruption and blatent lies (at Oslo, to begin with) of the PLO/PA. These are not free people, by any definition of the word. Most leftists have come into the center, precisely because of the Intifada, and Sept. 11th just clinched it. You know it was the Mossad who organized the whole thing, right? Just kidding! Not many Jews that I know believe that it was other than Saudi Arabs and Bin Laden. Sorry. There's a good deal of dissillusionment and a feeling of futility among us. We don't believe a damn thing Arafat says, and it's clear that if he (and a few other Arab states) didn't have the rallying cry to hate the Jews, I mean the Israelis, he would have a civil war on his hands, because he's corrupt and they know it. He says completely different things in Arabic and for the West. Like night and day. See below about Egyptian Jews and their knowledge of Arabic. There's a sad anger on the left among the Jews, or a diehard blindness to reality, depending. Most Israelis and many American Jews are either related to or friends with someone who has been blown up on their way to work or has lost a limb, is crippled or what have you. Not dead? Some of these people killed or mutilated were Americans visiting Israel. Some of these attacks were coming in twice a day. See a man or even a pregnant woman, (who knows?) who looks Arab and is carrying something that looks too bulky, or is really weird, like one guy carried a whole watermelon that was obviously cut in half, onto a bus. The other riders caught on right away. Their lives are in danger, they are alert. The bomb inside the watermelon was defused. Everyones getting to be an expert on second guessing the enemy. Jews are good at surviving if they have a chance and there are some heros there too, like the guard in front of the restaurant who recognized the back pack as explosives and grabbed the kid saying something like "you and I will die over here" and was blown up a safe distance from the restaurant, though I imagine they both got on the windows. I know a smaller number of Palestinians and other Muslims. One Palestinian guy told a friend of mine, who does his editing, that even though she's Jewish, she is named Sarah and has Abrahams wifes name, so he will not kill her. This was sort of in context in there conversation, which was about how Islam is similar to Judaism, but really a pecularly strong sentiment, given the setting, time, place. I know Egyptian Jews who listen in on the Arabic conversation of the Arab student group. The Arab students taunt the Jews who wear kippahs in Arabic. The Egyptian Jews speak Arabic. They know they are saying "we will kill the Jews", etc. It's scary. A student who worked for me told me that there would be a holy war in the Holy Land between Islam and the Jews. When the Jews were destroyed, the whole world would convert to Islam. Odd, I thought. I told her that the Jews believed that when the Messiah came the whole world would be in peace, God would be recognized by everyone and we would all practice our religions in a True way. I realize now that I should have added "whatever that means", but I was pretty stunned by her statement and walked home puzzeled and fighting my sadness. The Palestinians have been offered a portion of the land they should be sharing with the Jews. Several times. Everytime they refuse to compromise (and this has been going on since the British Mandate) they lose more. They do this well. Repeatedly. They used to have jobs in Israel, then there were murders of employers and bombs going off. Monthly, then weekly, then daily. The borders were guarded. Picture America being bombed daily. Would we show restraint? Have you lived under the fear of constantly knowing that your flesh could be sprayed all over the sidewalk you are walking on? I think not. Yes, the Palestinians are largely unemployed. Have you read anything about Arafats financial dealings? Well, nevermind, the suffering are not responsible for their actions. The wall: The wall is being built by people sick of fearing they will be blown up. And a wall around Bethlehem? Deary me. Sorry to be flippant about this, and it being so close to Christmas, but I'm not really worried about compromises to the place of Jesus birth if so many Jews are getting killed. I believe that when we realize the Messiah, we will understand that we need to compromise with each other and learn to live together. Until then, Christmas in a Muslim city where the Christians are actually second class citizens (I guess the technical term would be 'Dhimi') and where bombs to kill Jews are being made, isn't a concern of mine. Merry Christmas. Bringing holiness into the world is more about cooperation and attempts to build bridges and links in an honest way, and that just ain't happening. The Israeli and Jewish left is dissillusioned, and smarter now, we hope. But can there be hope? To me, it seems like the world is upside down and no one's making sense. I see a lot of bloodshed in the future. I don't have much hope. A map: I would like to see a Palestian map that has Israel in it. Edited by: etzchaim at: 12/23/03 8:44 pm
soulcircle Registered User (12/23/03 10:09 pm) Reply	Palestine doesn't Israel does exist. Arabs have also escaped Irael 30 years ago......so where is the love? where is the solutuon? so get back to burning the midnight oil, you didn't know "another wall," a second wall has been started sealing Bethlehem off entirely people become refugees in the first place when Israel bulldozes homes. Sharon's hand are as bloodied as Arafat's....where is the solution? pushing buttons is not the answer is Israel being walled off? yes or no? you and I haven't been in the refugee camps, let's make the trip? let's visit and contiue our learning in person. and maybe we can visit the Israelis in refugee camps, you did mention above, the Israel homes bulldozed and the Israelis in refugee camps? Oh, again the silence is deafening...... when did Israel become the monster that they formed Israel to escape? last year or this year? Americans are killed every day in the hood. after the sixties it was "decided" that there was an "excess of democracy." since then we have homeless, permanently displaced and they too die daily because by displacing people there isn't the threat of the organizing that occured in the sixties. these are complex issues, and Sharon's history decades ago is no tale of innocents, Israel depends of our media broadly displaying the murder and death of the Israelis. as in the thread about colors, there has to be a winner and a loser. it is hard for Israel to emerge the winner when they are also occupying and murdering, but that is reported weekly on Fox, right? laughing in regards to hope, please don't give up hope the one thing missing is vision, there are no hopeless situations only hopeless people in closing, every one alive, including the Palestines, knows Israel is on the map Edited by: soulcircle at: 12/23/03 10:41 pm
OneTaste Registered User (12/23/03 11:47 pm) Reply	Re: Palestine doesn't . . . yet would but for Arafat *Quote:* Sharon's hand are as bloodied as Arafat's....where is the solution? pushing buttons is not the answer Sharon is certainly guilty of much, but he wouldn't even be in office now if it weren't for Arafat's starting of the second intifada instead of accepting a Palestinian state. The only real chance will come when the �leaders� of the PA realize that there is more value in the Palestinians living for the creation of two states than there is in their dying for the destruction of the one existing state. When will Arafat and Hamas stop sacrificing their own people on an unholy altar of blood? *Quote:* every one alive, including the Palestines, knows Israel is on the map Really? Take a closer look, Dave. www.intelligence.org.il/e...maps_a.htm
soulcircle Registered User (12/24/03 12:10 am) Reply	major arms dealer If I had one thing to say to the power players of the Israel state and their arms sales, how few countries sell more arms than Israel?.....if I had one thing to say, I would say What if war wasn't an option? Edited by: soulcircle at: 12/24/03 12:11 am
soulcircle Registered User (12/24/03 12:14 am) Reply	four four countries sell more arms WASHINGTON, 15 June 2003 � The export of Israeli weapons and military services to India has made this tiny Mideast country one of the world�s top arms suppliers. In 2002 transfers of Israeli defense technology and know-how totaled $4.18 billion, ranking it fifth only to the United States, the European Union, Russia, and Japan in weapons exports. The previous year, Israel�s arms exports totaled just $2.5 billion. Now starting a new thread Diplomacy
OneTaste Registered User (12/24/03 2:24 am) Reply	Imagine ALL the people living life in peace *Quote:* If I had one thing to say to the power players of the Israel state and their arms sales, how few countries sell more arms than Israel?.....if I had one thing to say, I would say What if war wasn't an option? What if, indeed? Israel wouldn�t exist. Is this what you are gunning for? Got anything to say to the people around them who would destroy them in a minute if they could? Is the silence as deafening as you say? Did you ever stop to think about why Israel has such a military? How much has changed since this?: "The existence of Israel is an error which must be rectified. This is our opportunity to wipe out the ignominy, which has been with us since 1948. Our goal is clear��to wipe Israel off the map" (President Aref of Iraq, May 31, 1967). You ask when Israel became a monster? What if Arafat had such military capabilities? What do you say about the Egyptian FM getting accosted in Jeruselum by Muslims because he is working for peace? Why did Arafat choose intifada over statehood? With apologies to Robert Frost, good defences make good neighbor�s. Or, barring that, at least neutralized ones. Edited by: OneTaste at: 12/24/03 2:27 am
etzchaim Registered User (12/24/03 7:21 pm) Reply	Re: four Soulcircle, you didn't hear a word I said, did you? Feh. Where is the love? Love the one you're with. Don't kill them, maybe you can negotiate, unless you fear for your life. "The export of Israeli weapons and military services to India has made this tiny Mideast country one of the world�s top arms suppliers." Yeah, on campus here, the Hindus are writing in favor of Israel. There's like a Hindu/Jewish alliance going on. They are being attacked by the same people who attacked the US, but of course you think it was the CIA that attacked the US. India is allied with Israel because it is a democracy being attacked by radical Muslims who want to live under Sharia Law. Chop off the hand of the poor man who steals. Stone to death the woman who committed adultery. The debate is going on. Democracy or Rule by Religion... or fascism and terrorism if you refuse. I hate myself when I sound like I support Bush, because I don't. I hate war and I hate just about everything he stands for. Corporate greed, joining of religion and state. Hunh. I hate that people kill each other, especially when they kill each other over ideologies and for the sake of power, and the whole world is just upside down to me. That's why I think that when revolutions can finally occur in the Middle East, however way it happens, and they can find some expression of Democracy and freedom in their lands that reflects their way of life and ideals, there may be peace in the Middle East. God bless all of them, and may the Palestinians someday see that their suicide bombers are not martyrs, but their liberals willing to work with Israelis in peace for a shared life on the same land, are the true heroes, if they didn't have to fear for their lives. Then the Peace movement can move forward. Now, Israel has no peace partner to work with. It was all a lie, a stage in the removal of the Israelis from Holy Muslim Land. The Dhimi is not allowed to rule in Muslim land. That is why Lebanon has had so much strife - the Philangists are Christian. Syria is controlling Lebanon through Hamas. That should evoke emotions about occupation, but it doesn't, and the Jews wonder why. It is not for the Dhimi to rule the Muslim. The Dhimi are "People of the Book", but have not accepted the final Prophet. How dare the Jews rule Muslim land, never mind the fact that it was only under Jewish rule that all three monotheist religions had control over their own buildings and people, their own sacred sites. There is no such thing as unilateral peace, babe. No such thing.
feelbetrayed Registered User (12/25/03 2:57 am) Reply	ATTN: soulcircle You still never bothered to answer what you have already been asked in another thread. Will you please delete your post...the one where you took it upon yourself to publicize the name of a person who came here and tried to post anonymously. Trying to show off to everybody how smart you are... It is NOT your right to do that. The SRF WALRUS moderator ought to have put a stop to your outrageous, irresponsible misbehavior in publicizing an anonymous poster's name. Please go now and delete your wrongful post. pub78.ezboard.com/fsrfwal...&index=126 Edited by: feelbetrayed at: 12/25/03 3:01 am
chela2020 Registered User (12/25/03 6:22 am) Reply	Re: ATTN: soulcircle Feelbetrayed, I see what you mean. It does't look like Walrus has any scruples. Soulcircle was off the board for a while, so maybe he will see this and delete it, if not: I can tell you exactly how to handle this, as I have had to do this before: First, I already wrote to Walrus about this matter with Soulcircle when it first happened, but they ignored me. My suggestion is to write directly to Ezboard. I have done this before, and the manager there has deleted things that I have asked to be deleted. Edited by: chela2020 at: 12/25/03 7:14 am
chrisparis Registered User (12/26/03 10:32 am) Reply	Re: Israel O.K., First off, this has gotten way off topic, but... Let's put this in perspective. Israel is (or was) a Democracy. It is a western style society. These people are our allies in the struggle with fascist, totalitarian regimes. Meanwhile, a former head of Romanian Intelligence has let it be known that Arafat was an Egyptian national recruited by, trained by, and financed by the K.G.B. He was bankrolled and put in place for no other reason than to work for the destruction of Israel and the destabilization of western type cultures in the middle east. Heres the tough bottom line: Neither he nor Hammas nor the PLO will ever stop or rest until Israel is destroyed. There will be no peaceful co-existence with them ever, try what you will. ETZ, you have it exactly right, the Israelis are reacting to a threat. O.K., sure, when they do react militarily, there are civilian casualties. BUT, their TARGETS are MILITARY. This is opposed to the Palestinians, who are DELIBERATELY targeting civilians. There is war in the world now, and God forgive me, my eyes were blind to it until about two years ago, a war between the forces that want to see humanity enslaved under fascist regimes, and those who support the idea of human liberty. Soul, you are what the first camp would call either a "fellow traveler" or a "useful idiot" (Lenin's words, not mine). The conflict in the middle east is only one front. How many people on this board are aware that the Islamic forces in Somalia are crucifying Christians there?. And, to confuse the matter further, this isn't a war whose battle lines are being drawn in terms of Muslim and Christian. The war is being fought on many fronts, and it is a war, ultimately, against the human spirit and human consciousness. If you think you can escape it by not choosing sides, you will find the choice has been made for you. As the saying goes, just hope you're the one the crocodile eats last.

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