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metheuse Registered User (7/5/05 12:53 pm) Reply	a brilliant article on the American Gestapo www.smirkingchimp.com/art...ed&order=0
dontknownothinbouthistory Registered User (7/8/05 12:55 pm) Reply	Re: Paramadas "I am loathe to make fun of someone's handle, but dontknownothinbouthistory is just asking for it. Dear sir or madam, I daresay you could not have chosen a more appropriate handle, and you might have added that you are ignorant of currency markets and politics, not that these blazingly obvious facts kept you from spouting off" ....... Soros foundations and financial machinations are partly responsible for the destruction of socialism in Eastern Europe and the former USSR. He has set his sights on China. He was part of the full court press that dismantled Yugoslavia. Calling himself a philanthropist, billionaire George Soros' role is to tighten the ideological stranglehold of globalization and the New World Order while promoting his own financial gain. Soros' commercial and "philanthropic" operations are clandestine, contradictory and coactive. And as far as his economic activities are concerned, by his own admission, he is without conscience; a capitalist who functions with absolute amorality. ........
divine gypsy Registered User (7/9/05 10:16 am) Reply	Re: Paramadas If you could reference anything remotely legitimate where these claims (especially the last and most unlikely) could be substantiated, it might help their credibility. But, if he was even partially responsible for creating MoveOn, he's OK in my book.
dontknownothinbouthistory Registered User (7/9/05 11:19 am) Reply	Re: Paramadas In regards to your last statement: Move On was an explosive organized grassroots creation. Four people and a laptop in Oakland California were mobilizing a million people in instant organizing on people centered issues. For months, there was no office, just one laptop computer. Then before long they were close to 100% serving the Democratic candidate. The Democratic party is not a grass roots organization dealing totally with people centered issues. Move On's dynamic energy became "right hand man" to very deep pocketed conservative Democratic money ---wanting Kerry, not Dean for their candidate--- Move On was no longer an explosive grass roots [i]people centered[/i] organization of four people and a laptop........ For the introduction to all of this and the hard specifics, you can go to any one of a hundred places. One book might be suggested. It's a book dedicated to participatory democracy. The book is by a veteran political campaigner, who describes the electronic explosions now seen, first in Dean's campaign and Move On ---before they became "part of the Democratic Party serving a rich conservative Democrat. The name of the book is The Revolution Won't Be Televised. Though not dealing with Move On's day to day life in the slightest, the above book deals with the explosion of Dean to becoming the leading candidate. The stories are similar. Dean's campaign went from shoe-string to about 200,000 committed folks, many of them like the 4 people move on operation. After that successful first step they became the leading candidate for the nomination. It had never happened before. By the way there were some funny unbelievable moments! Would you like a extensive bibliography of books that give background, introduction and hard specifics within each book's context, field and focus. The media is not just owned by Disney and GE, etc. The media [u]IS[/u] the neo-cons. By reading books such as the one above, one may be informed in this "Information Age."
dontknownothinbouthistory Registered User (7/9/05 11:30 am) Reply	Re: Ohio Move On did not organize in Ohio immediately--- or ever --- after the selection of George Bush around the people centered issue that Ohio was stolen. And they were SO determined to get Kerry in. Kerry did win, but even Kerry didn't fight that EVERY vote be counted as he and his running mate hollered in so many speeches. It was the Green party---- and NO Democrat party, or Move On money------ and others who accomplished even the minimal recount that was done and over seen by Bush people. Ohio's "vote count," had been handed to Bush in numerous ways from the owner of the software and electronics of the election, from his home not that far from Columbus saying well in advance of Nov. that he would deliver Ohio to Bush, to the "Voter Apartheid" official-looking letter received by some African-Americans in Ohio that due to the expected huge turn-out, their precinct's voting place would be open for voting Tuesday AND Wednesday. There was a laundry list of other voter fraud between these two extremes of a bogus letter and the use of the biased software.
dontknownothinbouthistory Registered User (7/9/05 12:37 pm) Reply	gypsy " (especially the last and most unlikely) could be substantiated, it might help their credibility." please, am I wrong or right? that you are referring to "by his own admission, he is without conscience; a capitalist who functions with absolute amorality. ........ " then I can post the details...
dontknownothinbouthistory Registered User (7/9/05 12:54 pm) Reply	Re: What the Washington Times writer says! There is a new thread in Not in the Mainstream on Move On and George Soros, since this thread is about other things You will see what David N. Bossie, who writes for the Times has to say.
dontknownothinbouthistory Registered User (8/20/05 6:58 pm) Reply	Re: early East-West The two that I can confirm. I have physical copies in my possession of The Interview by S. Y and of the International News. The quotes as published here are correct! The other issues quoted I don't have, but may yet be able to obtain.
maggie mcclintock Registered User (9/13/05 3:33 pm) Reply	Re: the truth about Hitler Well, I am flabbergased.
maggie mcclintock Registered User (9/14/05 5:46 am) Reply	Re: What sort of avatar couldn't see WWII coming? [quote]Moyma wants us to consider the time that Hitler was happening and that's fine for excusing "average" people (not unlike excusing America's founding fathers for slavery and the oppression of women--hey, it was the time they were in. Considering that, they were still pretty hip.). But PY has placed himself outside the "average", indeed, outside the confines of time.[/quote] That is just it. We all bought into the belief that Yogananda was above average, and in some ways he was, but he didn't know everything about everything. He was not omniscient, and actually what does it actually mean to be omniscient? Probably not what we thought it meant. But even so, since he was into reading minds, why didn't he know Hitler's, Mussolinn's, or Stalin's? What also gets to me was his praise of dictators and calling the masses morons in need of one. That to me says a lot about a man and what he expects from others. Doesn't SRF to all of you now seem like a dictatorship, or am I pushing it here? Why was loyality so important to Yogananda and is still important to SRF? Moyma has good points in what she says about Yogananda not knowing, as does srflongago, but what seems to be the problem here is that we all expected much more out of Yogananda than we should have, which is why I don't worship a God, a guru, or any master now. They are not perfect, and there is no way on earth that they can and should be. Even the most saintly person on earth is not always a saint, but at least they are more so than some, and yet not always more so than the average person or even a moron. The sweetest people that I have ever met have often been those who society now calls "mentally challenged." Someone said that the British were not like the Nazis, and so Gandha's methods would not have worked there. Very true. Look at how the Dalai Lama tried to spare Tibet by trying to talk sense with the communists. In the end, the communists began killing the Tibetans, and so many had to flee, including the Dalai Lama. If America and other countries had disarmed, Hitler would have ruled the world. It is obvious from reading what Yogananda wrote that he admired Gandhi and was against war, but then when reading everything else he wrote it became confusing to me in regards to knowing what he really did believe. At best, I think he was ill informed and that he should have stayed out of politics. He didn't do well in college either, but that is beside the point. In my own study of avatars, I would say that they really say and do strange things, so much so that I have come to believe that the idea that God has come to earth is all bunk. Even Christ did crazy things. Maybe even enlightenment isn't what many of us think it is or even what Yogananda said it was. Edited by: maggie mcclintock at: 9/14/05 6:05 am
Sydfrukter Registered User (9/14/05 8:27 am) Reply	Re: early East-West Hi all. ------ > "Hitler is to be admired for leaving the League of Nations because peace can never be attained by the victor and vanquished attitude, . . . Instead of preventing Hitler from having equal armament with other nations, the other nations should reduce the armaments to the level of Germany . . . The Allies must reduce their own armaments first, and then they will find out that the example speaks louder than words." � Yogananda, Christmas message, 1933 ----- Hats off, Divine Gypsy, for taking that stuff into the board. The further postings contain interesting stuff too, for example > "A master brain like that of Mussolini does more good than millions of social organizations of group intelligence." - Yogananda, Interview, East-West, vol. 7. > "The average man cannot think clearly . . . He needs the master mind of a Dictator in order to think right and do right." - Yogananda, same place Yogananda called Mussolini a great man in 1933. it should make me wonder what a great man is, I assume. Laying all the other stuff - about Shibendu Lahiri and many others aside - information on this thread has confirmed my faith that some gurus and fascist leaders have similar attitudes and opinions, but not all of them. A totalitarian air surrounds the kriya pledge, and many hovering SRF attitudes. The guru-disciple structure, reflected in part in organizations too, is quite totalitarian. You give the guru your wife too in the original kriya tradition, as if she is cattle (?) Besides, an early SRF magazine (from the fifties or sixties), has a picture of that Richard Nixon on its front page - he is visiting the premises of the SRF Headquarters, smiling - As for historical analyses, there is some muddling speculation along the thread about what would have happened if (this and that). Ignore such stuff for what could have happened. Elementary, dear Dr. Watsons! Grrr . . . But, frankly, other options could and would have opened up if a "Reaganic" "Mr, Gorbatjev, tear down that wall" "unrealism" had been accomplished. Now, I do agree with moyma's vision (of 6.7.05), and her "Germany had been pushed into a corner". Textbooks are on her side, for sure. Amiable salutations Edited by: Sydfrukter at: 9/15/05 7:19 am
maggie mcclintock Registered User (9/14/05 1:11 pm) Reply	Re: early East-West [quote]Laying all the other stuff - about Shibendu Lahiri and many others aside - information on this thread has confirmed my faith that gurus and Fascist leaders are not so very different in mind. A totalitarian, fascistic air surrounds the kriya pledge, and many hovering SRF attitudes. The guru-disciple structure, reflected in part in organizations too, is authoritarian, even totalitarian. You give the guru your wife too in the original kriya tradition, as if she is cattle (?[/quote] My sentiments as well. And here is one guru's definition of enlightenment: "Enlightenment means omniscient mind, the fully-knowing mind; a state of mind that fully sees every single thing that exists�all noumenal and phenomenal existence�and completely realizes every past, present and future thing and event, without missing even an atom. This completely purified state of omniscient mind is what is meant by enlightenment." So my conclusion is that he was not enlightened at the time when he made those statements about Hitler, etc. Edited by: maggie mcclintock at: 9/14/05 2:56 pm
maggie mcclintock Registered User (9/17/05 3:56 am) Reply	Re: early East-West Unless someone can prove to me that Yogananda knew that these 3 men were terrible, it doesn't make sense to me to reject him just because he liked dictators. Now if a person is against dictators, i.e. even the guru system because it is somewhat like a dictatorship, then I can see reason to leave Yogananda. But to have expected him to know everything, I am not even sure if an enlightened being does know everything. I think we are expecting too much from gurus.
gassho Registered User (9/17/05 5:00 pm) Reply	Re: early East-West Hello Maggie, *Quote:* The guru-disciple structure, reflected in part in organizations too, is authoritarian, even totalitarian. Not all gurus and their organizations are like this. Personally, I was in SRF for 30 years. But somehow there was always something missing for me--even with having all four kriya techniques. I was never satisfied with the teaching as presented and continued to read other teachers. About 8 years ago now, I came across Ramana Maharshi. It was a profound experience for me and his teachings have answered so many questions for me in a way SRF never did. Ramana Maharshi, in my estimation, was not like other gurus--no verbal initiation, no pledges, no demands/coercion/brainwashing of any kind. Devotees could come and go as they pleased. He lived an exemplary life. Many people I haved talked to about him think his teachings are too intellectual. Their assessments couldn't be further from the truth. And his comments about kundalini are spot on for the serious devotee seeking true Self-realization. For example, read the first part of www.hinduism.co.za/kundalin.htm Since reading these comments many years ago, my attitude has significantly changed about the role and necessity of kriya. I now consider RM my jnana guru. gassho Edited by: gassho at: 9/17/05 5:02 pm
maggie mcclintock Registered User (9/18/05 6:16 am) Reply	Re: early East-West gassho, Thank you for that post. I find his method to be very rewarding myself. I use it in meditation though. I follow my breath only, but every now and then I will ask, "Who Am I?" especially if too many thoughts are still flowing in. With this method I am able to stop the flow of thoughts and remain in awareness. I went to the web site but I didn't understand if he were for or against certain types of meditation that awaken the kundalini too fast. I just know that for me, his methods are must faster at quieting the mind than kriya or hong sau. I am glad that you found him and that you reported this on the Walrus.
gassho Registered User (9/18/05 9:57 am) Reply	Re: early East-West Maggie, *Quote:* I went to the web site but I didn't understand if he were for or against certain types of meditation that awaken the kundalini too fast. The way you phrased that sentence kinda gives its own answer. ;-) RM let devotees practice whatever they felt drawn to, and encouraged devotees based on their inclinations. For example there were some devotees who practiced yoga and pranayam. Yogi Ramiah was an example. RM personally taught only the "method" of Self-inquery. If devotees were interested in pranayam techniques, for example, he suggested they go learn from someone who was qualified. RM was not a one-size-fits-all guru. In fact, he refused to acknowledge he was a guru, or had disciples. Although there is no real doubt he was a true guru--i.e. one who dispells the darkness of ignorance for those in tune with his grace. My first intro to RM was from the The Collected Works of Ramana Maharshi, edited by Aurthur Osborne. It came into my life at the right time. In that book is the following quote, *Quote:* Since the Supreme Being abides as the Self, constant surrender of the mind by absorption in the Self is said to comprise all forms of worship. Mind controlled, all else is controlled. The mind is itself the life-current; the ignorant say that in form it looks like a coiled serpent. The six subtle centres (chakras) are merely mental pictures and are meant for beginners in yoga. We project ourselves into the idols and worship them, because we do not understand true inward worship. The quote had a profound impact on me. When I read it, there was a deep, satisfying understanding of, "Yes, this is right." gassho Edited by: gassho at: 9/18/05 4:35 pm
dontknownothinbouthistory Registered User (10/13/05 8:57 pm) Reply	Re: early East-West has there ever been a more bodacious picture, than to imagine every center and temple etc......discovering after the fact...........that new members old members one and all...received copies of the depression, the 1 kriya is good for a month of evolution, the hitler, mussulini etc info in their emails and the snail mail boxes?
Ramsses II Registered User (10/14/05 4:46 pm) Reply	Re: early East-West Bodacious. Well god damn. The flawless avatar had human imperfections. Set the dogs on him.

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