human rights for Palestinians..from Ready for Revolution

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redpurusha Registered User (1/17/04 10:07 am) Reply	Re: you partly describe the military/billionaire/corporation chrisparis, the link was meant to be a joke not a political position, with the hope of maybe lightening up this thread a little.
chrisparis Registered User (1/17/04 10:57 am) Reply	Re: you partly describe the military/billionaire/corporation Thanks Red. Having been handed steaming piles of "I hate Bush" for ages, and having had it in abundance even from family members over the holidays, I am, maybe, a bit tetchy. I will, however. leave the post in place. Their are plenty of people who view the board or who contribute who would have put the post up there without a trace of levity at all. And, look, folks, I'm not at all enamored with George W. myself. I think, for example, that his passage of the Medicaid package is a travesty (and it looks like 49,000 members of AARP agree with me). But I really think his heart is in the right place, and I simply don't credit this "it's all a conspiracy of the oil cartels to rake in evermore filthy lucre" hogwash. The last real conspiracy in the American government was that of hundreds of soviet agents who had infiltrated it (as is now a matter of historical record) and the collusion of the liberals to keep them there.
redpurusha Registered User (1/17/04 11:05 am) Reply	Re: you partly describe the military/billionaire/corporation I hear you. I voted republican myself.
rachelcorrie Registered User (1/29/04 10:36 pm) Reply	soulcircle/rachelcorrie---certified insane www.rense.com/general21/ind.htm Geraldo is quoted at the end of this piece. Question: does Geraldo suffer from association with me? Resoundingll , yes!!!!!!! ~~~~~~~~~~ from the Walrus funnies Men create all conflict, and women create all men, that's a laugh Edited by: rachelcorrie at: 1/29/04 10:40 pm
rachelcorrie Registered User (1/29/04 10:48 pm) Reply	certified insane---by the UN Hello Guests and All, The United Nations agency for Palestinian refugees is warning that it may not be able to cope with the number of people made homeless by Israeli army demolitions. news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middl...428517.stm this is not worth opening: BBC makes no mention of Geraldo One Love Edited by: rachelcorrie at: 1/29/04 10:48 pm
YellowBeard420 Slow Down (1/30/04 5:57 am) Reply	Sharon's Butchery > Etzchaim wrote (1/7/04): "The Jews have no right to a homeland, Soulcircle, you know that don't you?" > Soulcircle replied: "please don't put words in my mouth" I've read through the posts in this thread, and I agree that you (Etz) are putting words in Soulcircle's mouth that he has clearly not implied. The Jewish people clearly have a homeland, one which is protected by a wide and large arsenal of 'weapons of mass destruction' including nuclear. Who can take this homeland from them? The Palestinians on the other hand are the ones who have had their homeland taken by force by an unwarranted sneak attack from certain corrupt politicians in Israel bent on expansion by force. I make a clear distinction between corrupt, militant leaders in Israel, and the general population living there (as with all nations that suffer this fate). Many people in Israel strongly disagree with the violent expansionistic actions of their government and are working for change. Some of these people are risking their lives to do so. > Etzchaim: "Sharon, btw, is a DAMN GOOD general. He will indeed win, if allowed. That's precisely WHY he was elected." There's a BIG difference between being a good general and a butcher. He has massively superior armaments which he recklessly uses against people with very outdated and limited weaponry. It's like a person in a hen house with a butcher knife -- is he terribly skilled when he comes out covered in blood? Or is he just a butcher? The pages of history are filled with very skilled military tacticians, Sharon is certainly not among their ranks. > Redpurusha: "I voted republican myself." How come this doesn't surprise me ... [Edited an unnecessarily long commentary. Edited for brevity.] Edited by: YellowBeard420 at: 1/30/04 6:17 am
Ringbearer7 Registered User (1/31/04 1:40 am) Reply	Re: Sharon's Butchery "The Palestinians on the other hand are the ones who have had their homeland taken by force by an unwarranted sneak attack from certain corrupt politicians in Israel bent on expansion by force." Huh? What sneak attack are you referring too? The 1967 war? Well, two problems with that. 1) The West Bank and the Gaza strip were at that time controlled by Jordan and Egypt repsectively - not the Palestinians. 2) The 1967 war was no "sneak attack." Here is a time line of events leading up to the 6-day war: www.yahoodi.com/peace/sixdaywar.html "There's a BIG difference between being a good general and a butcher. He has massively superior armaments which he recklessly uses against people with very outdated and limited weaponry." He has not used Israel's weapons recklessly. If he had there would no longer be any trouble with the Palestinians - it would be over in a month. In my opinion Israel has been very restrained. What do you think a Arab-Palestinian suicide bomber would do if he or she had a nuke and could fit it under her burka? How long do you think he/she would agonize over the potential loss of innocent civillian lives?
rachelcorrie Registered User (1/31/04 1:53 am) Reply	thank goodness his behavior has been "restrained" let's go below the surface, let's know the history, the leaders in this history, let's read: *Quote:* the principal Zionists---Herzl, Ben-Gurion, Begin, documents from the Stern Gang, etc., etc. Ringbearer7, I suggest we begin with a reading of Herzl, do you feel me? Bring your reinforcements, the "Zionist thought police," let's know the subject, your propaganda and my propaganda can fade, as they should, as we identify the issues. You are doing so much better than I am, yet I believe we both enjoy a good read. Starting a new thread on Herzl. Spot on! *Quote:* "I've often said looking back, that it was all inevitable, SNCC being what it was. Look, when we took on white supremacy and the Klan, we were attacked, but we survived. We took on the president and the National Demodratic Party and survived that. When we opposed the war and the draft, we were really attacked, but survived even that. But dare to open our mouths on Zionism? That one you didn't mess with and survive. That was the lesson the Zionist thought police meant for us to learn in 1967. The two quotes above are from earlier in the thread by Kwame Ture in his autobiography Ready for Revolution. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ RE: your post and Sharon. thank goodness his butcher behavior has been "restrained" try that opinoin with the 14,000 people below at least not all the Palestinians have lost their homes from the BBS story and the U.N., three posts above news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middl...428517.stm *Quote:* Since October 2000, more than 14,000 people in the Gaza Strip have lost their homes - almost 10,000 of them in Rafah. Edited by: rachelcorrie at: 1/31/04 2:15 am
chrisparis Registered User (1/31/04 10:02 am) Reply	Re: thank goodness his behavior has been "restrained&qu For those of you who don't have a playbook, Kwame Ture is Stokley Carmichael, already referred to in this thread. If you have an interest, you can find a glowing obituary from the Revolutionay Communist Party-USA via Google. It is once again interesting to see Soul's true colors revealed-RED. It is also interesting to draw conclusions about why an admirerer of two hate-filled radicals (Rachel Corrie and Stokley Carmichael) and an admirerer of the Palestenian plan to eradicate the state of Israel is also a supporter of Howard Dean and the move-on organization. Hmmmm, what can you say about the company you keep and the support you accept?
YellowBeard420 Slow Down (1/31/04 10:20 am) Reply	Re: Sharon's Butchery Ring-a-ling wrote: "Huh? What sneak attack are you referring too? The 1967 war?" I was referring to the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. --------- "On April 9, 1948, the Irgun, one of whose commanders is Menachem Begin, and the Stern Gang, commanded by Yitzak Shamir, stormed the Arab village of Deir Yasin. Two hundred and fifty people, over one hundred of whom were women and children, were massacred. The event struck terror among the Arabs, such that by the time war broke out, 300,000 Arabs had already fled Palestine." www.nmhschool.org/tthornt...8_arab.htm --------- > Ring-a-ling continued with: "He [Ariel Sharon] has not used Israel's weapons recklessly. If he had there would no longer be any trouble with the Palestinians - it would be over in a month. In my opinion Israel has been very restrained." Why did Belgium want to try him for war crimes? Specifically in regard to two massacres: the September 1982 massacre of Palestinian civilians in the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps in Lebanon, and the April 2002 Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) mass killings in the Jenin refugee camp in the West Bank. Are you going to try to claim that these events did not happen? Recently, destroying homes, bulldozing entire olive tree groves and the systematic destruction of the Palestinian economy hasn't been enough for him. He wants to destroy their access to clean water as well: -------- "... the Israeli army destroyed wells built for civilians in Gaza by an American government aid agency ... Huge areas have been demolished by the Israelis in the Gaza Strip in recent weeks, including more than 150 homes ... The wells had just been dug by the United States Agency for International Development (USAid) ... Gaza ... suffers severe shortages of clean water, and many drink salt water." www.commondreams.org/head...105-03.htm --------- Also Israeli doctors at the forensic institute at Abu Kabir extracted vital organs such as the heart, kidneys, and liver from the bodies of Palestinian youths and children killed by the Israeli Army in Gaza and the West Bank. Professor Dolev, Head of Ethics of the Israel Medical Association in 1999 speaking on the use of torture said that 'a couple of broken fingers' during the interrogation of Palestinians was a price worth paying for information. But specifically speaking on the reckless use weaponry, missiles are regularly lobbed at targets in highly populated areas. Just did a quick search here to pull up an example: "Israeli helicopters blew apart a car carrying Hamas activists in Gaza last night as the army followed through on its threat to "liquidate" members of the Islamic resistance movement. But the helicopters missed their target and instead killed an elderly man. ... The attack killed Hassan Hamlawi, 65, who was in the street. Among the wounded were four children, including an eight-year-old boy in a critical condition, doctors said." www.guardian.co.uk/israel...04,00.html And that's a mild example of Sharon's reckless use of weaponry. I think some of the problem has to due with the fact that the religion that's largely embraced in Israel is not terribly healthy: ---------- 1 Samuel 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. Deuteronomy 2:34 And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain. Deuteronomy 7:2 And when the lord thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them. Deuteronomy 20:16 But of the cities of these people, which the lord thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth. Joshua 8:26 For Joshua drew not his hand back, wherewith he stretched out the spear, until he had utterly destroyed all the inhabitants of Ai. Joshua 10:40 So Joshua smote all the country of the hills, and of the south, and of the vale, and of the springs, and all their kings: he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the lord God of Israel commanded. Judges 21:10 And the congregation sent thither twelve thousand men of the valiantest, and commanded them, saying, Go and smite the inhabitants of Jabeshgilead with the edge of the sword, with the women and the children.
Ringbearer7 Registered User (1/31/04 11:25 am) Reply	Re: Sharon's Butchery Ol'Yeller wrote: "I was referring to the 1948 Arab-Israeli War." WRONG. The war broke out because of the Arab's violent refusal to accept the U.N. partition plan (approved by the U.N. Nov 29, 1947.) The Arab-Israeli war was by no means a suprise attack: "The representative of the Jewish Agency told us yesterday that they were not the attackers, that the Arabs had begun the fighting. We did not deny this. We told the whole world that we were going to fight." --Jamal Husseini - U.N. representative of the Arab Higher Committe in Palestine, April 16, 1948: "Powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the settlement envisaged therein." --U.N. Palestine Commision report, Feb. 16, 1948: "Early in January [of 1948], the first detachments of the Arab Liberation Army began to infiltrate into Palestine from Syria. Some came through Jordan and even through Amman . . . They were in reality to strike the first blow in the ruin of the Arabs of Palestine." --British commander of Jordan's Arab Legion, John Bagot Glubb (from his book titled "A Soldier with the Arabs") "This is not the first time that the Arab states, which organized the invasion of Palestine, have ignored a decision of the Security Council or of the General Assembly. The USSR delegation deems it essential that the council should state its opinion more clearly and more firmly with regard to this attitude of the Arab states toward decisions of the Security Council." --Soviet delegate Andrei Gromyko to the U.N. the Security Council, May 29, 1948 Edited by: Ringbearer7 at: 1/31/04 11:51 am
etzchaim Registered User (1/31/04 7:36 pm) Reply	YB's superficial reading The Sabra and Shatila refugee camps were attacked by the Philangists, a group of Christians in Lebanon who had been attacked by the PLO during Arafats attempt to take over Lebanon (he had already failed at his attempt to assasinate King Hussein and take over Jordan. Sharon has already been tried and punished for his turning a blind eye to the blood feud that was occuring between the PLO and the Christians responding to the PLO's attacks. I do not agree with the way Sharon is handling things, but at least I can see that there are other factors going on and do not rely on the propaganda of Hezbolla and other state run terrorist organizations. I also don't think that Hezbolla should be negotiated with. Unfortunately, Israel just has and terror will get more respect in the Arab world. The current 'deal' will only lead to more trouble. Israeli doctors have a history of treating the Palestinians in Israeli hospitals. Twisting the truth of what doctors are doing is ugly, YB. Your hatred is strong, my friend. I agree that the destruction of the wells, the olive trees and the homes is wrong. So is turning a blind eye on the fact that this was all prompted by the refusal of Arafat to negotiate and the renewal of the Intifada. And yes, it is unfortunate when the Israelis miss their targets. At least they are targeting the terrorists and not the old people at Passover Seders and families at restaurants, people riding busses to work, and teenagers at dance clubs. Reckless use of weaponry... Your reading of the Torah and Tanach is equally poor. Amalek attacked the remnant of the Jews left at Rephidim. The elders and men had gone ahead to get water in Horev. Amalek attacked the women and children, completely unprovoked by Moses and the children of Israel. Amalek represents evil, like Hitler. You are suggesting we let Hitler succeed in the name of what? Peace? The Torah contains both rules to contain war that made it less amoral in it's time period and the rules concerning the Cana'anites. Trees, fields of food and non-combantants were to be left alive and rules for captives were developed. The common practice of rape and pillage practiced by people even today, in Eastern Europe, in Vietnam, in Africa, etc., was clearly stated as unlawful. Rules for slaves were humanized (there is still slavery practiced, particularly the sex-trade, in Muslim lands, there are no rules here and young girls are being traded regularly). Slaves were given definate rights, and allowed to go free with their families at specific times, or if they converted to Judaism. This, of course, created havoc with the Church during the Medieval period, when the serfs and slaves were being treated better by the Jews than by the Christians. Jews today do keep in perspective the fact that slavery is inhuman and unlawful, don't worry. Judaism is evolutive, and with no knowledge of todays teaching and thinking, blind quoting of a text is intellectually superficial and only meant to spread hatred and misunderstanding. You quote passages that refer to only the Cana'anites. The religion of Israel, the Rabbis, ruled LONG ago that the text refers only to the Cana'anites and to no other people. You have no idea what the religion of Israel is like, and yet, you presume to know. You presume many things. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and you have fallen into classic Jew-hatred based on your own misunderstandings and projections of some shadow inside you. Perhaps this shadow is also related to the shadow of your "possession by Yogananda" that you are trying to shed here on the Walrus by emoting your negativity and hatred? Do you have anything better to do with your life than to instigate arguments on the internet with your biased and hateful messages? Edited by: etzchaim at: 1/31/04 7:55 pm
rachelcorrie Registered User (2/1/04 12:50 am) Reply	Sunday comic section Hello Guests and All, a couple reflections from the insane assylum etzchaim contributes: *Quote:* Jews today do keep in perspective the fact that slavery is inhuman and unlawful, don't worry. yet genocide against the Palestinians is dandy--- etzchaim tells Yelloweard420: *Quote:* You have no idea what the religion of Israel is like, and yet, you presume to know. etzchaim, I value your opinions, and you are joined by others in this thread---especially in contrast to my insane opinions, yet YellowBeard420 has found your buttons and the religion of Israel and the religion of you seems to have many buttons when things lighten up as they do in the dawn we insane go about our day in the world of shadows children, women and men and we insane begin the day turning to the paper and the funnies for who wants to think that the next suicide bomber may kill our family who wants to think that soulcircle/rachelcorrie may have entered a post with some drivel about 14,000 Palestinians greeting the dawn with no funnies to read ~~~~~~~~with no home when things lighten up when they do in the dawn come to us extchaim tell us about Israel's religion says the Palestinian sign on the refuge camps garbage lawn blame our plight on Arafat the infidel, tell us about religion cause you will laugh to hear us say YellowBard420 is right and we will laugh at your Israeli religion of genocide ******************* when Arafat was in your Sharon's clutches, the chance was yours to strike that military target free of any collateral damage, yet you didn't you didn't because chrisparis has won his war against the "reds," and now his U.S. criminal mob government in collusion with the Israeli right wing make their funny strategies and Arafat lives to defend against suicide bombers Israel does many things, yet doesn't harm a hair on Arafats body that alone is as conflicted as any insanity i am full of bring on your arsenal chrisparis, ringbearer7 and etzchaim, i am busy today reading Herzl's The Jewish State for when you are ready, as well, we will discuss issues and chrisparis you are behind in your reading ~~~~~A MUST READ~~~~~~~~ of The People's History of the United States by Howard Zinn Spot On! when things lighten up in the dawn we laugh and insane soulcircle/rachelcorrie is our Sunday funny g
soulcircle Registered User (2/1/04 2:34 am) Reply	comics:"the thin line between pride and disgust" Hello Guests and All, pride can easily turn to disgust, chrisparis pride in the CIA's fight against the "Reds," is due in part to their protection of the U.S. when citizens read Plausible Denial by Mark Lane any pride turns to disgust --- President Kennedy wasn't protected by the CIA, he was killed by our tax dollars: by an element within the CIA: the Warren Comission was fed falsehoods by the director of the FBI; the CIA, through lies at the top had engineered the FBI to be in such a pickle as to back off. any pride such as you have, is balanced in my case by the CIA's part in the assasination of JFK by the CIA's own people, again with our hard earned money this comic strip brought to you by the insanely, gooney catooney even a fat cat~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~can smell a rat
etzchaim Registered User (2/1/04 5:43 am) Reply	Re: Sunday comic section Soulcircle, there is a war going on between the Arabs and the Jews, and it's been going on since the 1800's. That is why there are deaths, and on both sides. You are using the term 'genocide' as an inflamatory phrase, and falling into the same anti-Jewish patterns that YB has fallen into, whether you are willing to admit it or not. So you say: "yet genocide against the Palestinians is dandy---" Is this some fantasy you are having? Do you honestly believe that? Do you realize that it is the Intifada that killed the Peace Movement in Israel? Think, Dave. We would like to restart the Peace Movement, but there is no way to do that with no ability to work with moderate Arabs in a potential Palestine. You cannot have peace with terrorism. ...and if I choose to show where YB is clearly being a dilitante in his thinking, what do you care? Honestly, Dave, you really think it's the Israelis who will wage jihad? You really think that it is Judaism that calls for that? Go on, laugh. Your mind will carry on in it's fashion... Edited by: etzchaim at: 2/1/04 6:05 am
etzchaim Registered User (2/1/04 6:07 am) Reply	Re: Sunday comic section Oh yeah, I forgot, it's all a conspiracy, and thanks for posting the Herzl. That's another conspiracy, btw. The Jewish Company is trying to take over the world, just not Uganda. We don't like Uganda. Herzl just presented it as a way to get Jews back to their homeland in between pograms which were, of course instigated by a Jewish conspiracy acting behind the scenes to make Gentiles hate Jews and attack them so that Herzl's dream of a non-Ugandan homeland for the Jews could manifest. This was going to be the base of the Jewish Company's World-Takeover and Mass Genocide Headquarters. And don't be fooled, Jihad is also a Jewish plot, part of the Torah-Code, a grand conspiracy. Watch out. You may be mistaken for a Cana'anite. Edited by: etzchaim at: 2/1/04 6:18 am
Ringbearer7 Registered User (2/1/04 9:27 am) Reply	Re: Sunday comic section Etzchaim wrote: "...there is a war going on between the Arabs and the Jews, and it's been going on since the 1800's." It's been going on much longer than that, but only in recent times have the Jews had the ability to fight back. Of course this is a terrible afront to Arab pride after centuries of their being able to treat the Jews living in the midst like dogs with no possibility of retaliation.
soulcircle Registered User (2/1/04 11:55 am) Reply	education and maturing go ever on and on Hello Guests and All, are we still living in the Old Testament? and YellowBeard420 is spot on! and I hear in the last post that the powerful Israelis setting policy, love revenge and war and genocide as if their memory is short or non-existent in some areas. and i still marvel that etzchaim sings her folk song of the unmatched horror of the intifada---when in the last 12 months Arafat was in house arrest and the Israeli military didn't "attack" that "military target", and strike a permanent setback to intifada ----ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ---- these plots and agendas of Sharon and Bush above etzchaim replied to YellowBeard420: *Quote:* You quote passages that refer to only the Cana'anites. The religion of Israel, the Rabbis, ruled LONG ago that the text refers only to the Cana'anites and to no other people. well Ringbearer7 has the Israelis in power reenacting the Old Testament and as we move through The Peoples History of the U.S, as we read The Jewish State and next Old New State by Herzl, issues and currents, ideas and actions can come to the flow in a study, an education and a future. hearts and minds that are in pain can seek understanding and children can be born that aren't blown to bits by suicide bombers, children can be born, not in refuge camps education and maturing go ever on and on soulcircle/rachelcorrie
YellowBeard420 Slow Down (2/1/04 1:29 pm) Reply	Re: education and maturing go ever on and on > Etzchaim wrote: "Israeli doctors have a history of treating the Palestinians in Israeli hospitals." Sure, the ones living in Israel proper. And the Israeli army has a history of firing upon Palestinian ambulances as they come to collect the people they've just mangled. > Etzchaim: "Twisting the truth of what doctors are doing is ugly" I think hauling off Palestinian bodies and harvesting the organs is on the ugly side. I guess that's your idea of Palestinians receiving treatment in Israeli hospitals. The bodies carted off in these cases were clearly deceased. I would like to see you provide a link about Palestinian wounded in the occupied territories being rescued by Israeli ambulances and treated in Israeli hospitals. And the site has to be a relatively neutral source. > Etzchaim: "Your hatred is strong, my friend." If making the claim here that Arabs should be treated as human beings and not as animals, is being hateful in your eyes, then I'm quite happy to appear hateful. > Etzchaim: "I agree that the destruction of the wells, the olive trees and the homes is wrong. So is turning a blind eye on the fact that this was all prompted by the refusal of Arafat to negotiate and the renewal of the Intifada." I like how you justify that going on a killing spree is ok if someone doesn't want to sign over their land to you. > Ringbearer: "The war broke out because of the Arab's violent refusal to accept the U.N. partition plan" Here we have the same logic. Ringbearer says their "violent refusal" of not wanting to sign over their land. You speak of the U.N. here like it's the will of God. Well if that's how you feel fine. But let's see you respect that will of the U.N. now. The U.N. is far from pleased about the current goings on in the region by Israel. They had to put pressure on the Israeli government to stop rounding up Palestinians in camps and numbering them -- it was just a little too eerily similar to another chapter in history. > Etzchaim: "Do you have anything better to do with your life than to instigate arguments on the internet with your biased and hateful messages?" I think it's biased and hateful to treat any group of people as animals, which is what is happening in the occupied territories. You wonder why these people want to strap bombs to themselves? When they've had every last ounce of dignity taken from them and even clean drinking water -- what's there to live for? You may think that the bottom of your boot is a nice place for these people to live, but I'm sorry, people will fight that. > YellowBeard (12/4/03): "... I have to stand up for what is truth, where ever it comes from regardless of the consequences." And that's what I'm doing here. You (Etz) will surely continue to claim that equal rights for all people is "hateful". I was going to say you haven't played the race card yet, but I had to reread your post because I was going to be surprised if you didn't -- turns out you did: > Etzchaim: "you have fallen into classic Jew-hatred" It's like you're walking down the street and you stab someone, you pull the knife out and then go for another pass with it. Your victim then has the audacity to try to hold your arm back -- you scream foul -- "you filthy Jew-hater!" Who do you think you're fooling with that? I saw you doing that with Soulcircle, trying to paint him as a racist because he believes in equal rights for all people, which just so happens to include a race that you hate with a passion. Who's really the racist here? And Ringbearer is one of those post 911 people that have become violently racist against all Arabs. He was probably one of those guys that were out lynching people not long after the incident. The problem here is that the actions of a few is being blamed on an entire race of people. That's what real racism is Etz. The Israeli government regularly does "group punishment" actions and doesn't even try to deny it, so it'd be interesting to see if you even try to bother covering that one up. I can go to a hardcore pro-Israeli government site and hear them talk about group retribution actions. So good luck with that one. People don't strap bombs on themselves because they have nothing better to do with their time. You say they do this because they're "hateful" people. And then you try to label me as a racist. I don't think you're fooling anyone, but I'm sure you'll keep at it. I made it very clear what my position was here with my first post on this thread: > YellowBeard (1/30/04): "I make a clear distinction between corrupt, militant leaders in Israel, and the general population living there (as with all nations that suffer this fate)." Positions in government usually attract the not so hot elements of society. People that go after power are generally not the type of people that should have power. All governments suffer this problem. Now Etz, I feel you're taking your position because of your ethnicity, which is a mistake in my opinion. We should all look at people as equals, regardless of what our race is. You support the religion of Israel because you feel some sort of cultural bond. This is dangerous thinking. This is like a German person valuing the teachings of Hitler because of his cultural connection. Every culture has healthy and unhealthy elements. To me it looks like you take all the elements of your culture (and actions of the Israeli government) and claim that they're all just. I would encourage you to use a little discrimination. Because when you do that, you're actually giving your culture a bad name. Just like neo-Nazis in Germany give Germans a bad name. > Etzchaim: "We would like to restart the Peace Movement ..." Here's a good example here where you say we. First, you don't live in Israel. Second, even if you did, you're not a member of government there. I know you can't hear what I'm saying right now, you can just think of angry words to bang out on your keyboard, but you should really think about these things. > Rachelcorrie wrote: "~A MUST READ~ The People's History of the United States by Howard Zinn" Agreed. Howard Zen is very good. [Edited to clean up a typo.] Edited by: YellowBeard420 at: 2/1/04 1:34 pm
Ringbearer7 Registered User (2/1/04 5:46 pm) Reply	Re: education and maturing go ever on and on Yellowbeard: wrote: "Here we have the same logic. Ringbearer says their "violent refusal" of not wanting to sign over their land. You speak of the U.N. here like it's the will of God." Stop trying to cover up your ignorance. You claimed that the 1948 Arab-Israeli war was a surprise attack on the part of the Jews when it clearly was nothing of the sort. So now you shift topics and try redirect your argument in another direction to avoid facing the fact that you don't know what you are talking about. More than likely you are only repeating what you have been taught an "enlightened" person should think. Typical. "And Ringbearer is one of those post 911 people that have become violently racist against all Arabs. He was probably one of those guys that were out lynching people not long after the incident." Excellent analysis. Since your statements have been proven to be false you resort to name calling and ad homenim.

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