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Mt. Washington, Ca

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SRF Walrus > Treatment of Members/Monastics > Treatment of srf families
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dawnrays Registered User (5/10/03 9:52 am) Reply	Treatment of srf families We have never been "inside" devottees, being a military family with two rowdy kids, although we met and married in srf and have tried to attend fairly regularly (though it usually involves long commutes) and volunteer when we could. Despite our best efforts, we have always been made to feel seriously out of step wth srf and (ofcourse) Master. Even to the point of having to sit through lectures at SD temple practically trivializing family life and married peoples' problems. We did however feel like we needed a church with some structure to espouse our beliefs but have ended up feeling more like outside agitators all these many years at temples and groups. We have written MC countless letters on the treatment of families and children (invisible and disrespectful as well as a lack of childcare for most events and a generally child unfriendly environment). At one point, MC insisted on a registered nurse being present in the room with young children if their parents were attending services 5 minutes away in the temple. In the end we have always been treated like two isolated malcontents. I also happen to know, being from the east coast; that at the Greenfield Retreat Center in Front Royal Virginia, MC would not allow the devotees to open thier own Sunday school for the first 5 years. Many of these devotees had made great sacrifices to relocate to this rural area and still they were not allowed to operate their own Sunday School ! An event (the murder suicide of two married devottees who attended the San Diego temple, in I believe 199 bought many devottees together in "emergency" support groups and such. Many it turns out confessed to feelings of depression, isolation and even thoughts of suicide and and overall general fedupness with the system, (non-supportive, promoting isolation). After a couple of years of trying to make changes to very little avail, it all kind of petered out. Shortly after that we moved out of state. MC has continued over the years to blow me off (talk to your minister, dear). Why? So we can start a committee to discuss the matter, submit it to MC and wait 6 months for a NO? I have been to so many groups and centers that I know they're all dysfunctional (however, the closer you get to MC, the less free and spontaneous the atmosphere, I've noticed). When we recently tried to start a group in our area, Center department simply refused to call us back, questioned our "stability" and gave us the general run around. Not even a shred of common courtesy for our collective 37 years in srf. In the end I simply left a disdainful message (after waiting months for a return call) on Bramachari xxxx's phone line, something along the lines of being more concerned with donations than people. That day my husband received an immediate "damage control" pr phone call at work from (his supervisor) Bramachari xxxxx to assure us that he "did care" and our requests had simply been laying on this desk (for 6 months). On the contrary, our recent dealings with Ananda have been same day return phone calls and e-mails and a general feeling of helpfulness and belonging with an assurance of a "no srf bashing" policy at church (we are trying to heal the rift)... What a breath of fresh air! I had already decided to leave and try out Ananda when I found your site. It has really helped me to help my husband, who has been so miserable and torn up inside over the bogus "loyalty" factors for most of his 20 years on the path. We have blamed many things on our joint misery and fighting; each other, the military and of course, srf (but what to do?) My husband had so bought into it's having a self-realized master at the helm. We will continue to help ourselves and anybody else we meet to rehibilitate. Love, dawnrays Edited by: dawnrays at: 5/16/03 9:38:09 am
Lobo Registered User (5/10/03 8:35 pm) Reply	Re: Treatment of srf families Dear Dawnrays, Wow! You've captured that which is part of SRF's problem; the fact that they are trying to run churches for lay members with and by monastics. I know that the Catholic church does this and some other organizations as well but they have their own issues to deal with as we've seen from the current publicity about some of their monks illegal behavior with their members. The monastic lifestyle is what SRF, through their ministers, are attempting to convince the layity to practice in their own lives. It leads to isolation (as you've captured so well in your post) from others, which in turn leads to trying harder to please the minister or committee members that you/I are good devotee's and should be respected and welcomed as such. But of course that just doesn't work. I remember when a minister told us that the birthdays of the monastics aren't celebrated or even acknowledged, only PY's (now probably DM's as well). This is done to help them learn to see themselves as the Atman\Soul which is of course why they entered the monastery in the first place. It is a good illustration of the mindset that runs the place. Good for monastics who are trying to detach from others; bad for families and lay members who aren't, because they/we are in the world and must deal with people everyday in so many different settings. Plus we've been raised, many of us anyway, in traditional Christian churches and sects which put a premium upon "fellowship" using pot-luck dinners and other social occasions to try and create that sense of belonging and being valued as a member of the congreation. SRF, as so many have found for themselves doesn't do this. True they do have occasional "socials" such as India night etc.; but it is always from the monastic perspective. Meaning that the monks in attendance are always the center of attention with the lay members in the background, a step down as it were. I so feel what you wrote about. It was only when you allowed your real feelings (anger) to rise to the surface and put that into your letter to the Brahmacharyi did you receive a call from him. Before you were a little too demanding and didn't show that supineness that a good SRF lay member adopts to win approval and acceptance. That is a good thing, for without our showing them just what they are doing to harm people they probably think that they are doing just fine, thank you very much. However we know from our readings of PY's writings and some of his close disciples that he was very gregarious, spending time with all his disciples, not putting them into categories, one higher than the other, and treated as such. He gave dinners and banquets where he himself worked late in the kitchen to prepare wonderful dishes so his loved ones would be pleased and made to feel a part of his family. He had many married disciples, which isn't something that is well known or discussed in SRF today. One woman wrote than she attended San Diego and then the Golden Lotus Temple in Enicinitas with her mother when she was a young woman. They were very poor, and her mother was battered by her husband who also had a drinking problem. She says that many times they had no money, and that after services when they approached PY for his blessing afterwards he would dig into his pocket and quietly hand her mother some money to help them out. She says he did this without any prompting, just out of love for them. That is the guru that I valued for greatly. He knew and wanted to help each of his disciples with everything that he had to give. He didn't say, "well, those people are obviously not rich and can't help the work so I"ll just let them pass by because they can't help me." No, he understood that they were a ray of God's Light and as such it was, as he often said, "God helping God." Oh if today's SRF could understand that this is what we all want to share. Love and concern, compassion and friendship, monastic and householder, each valuing the other as a fellow disciple. This would go a long way to recapturing the spirit that PY set for his work and demonstrated with his life and actions. I hope that you find the fellowship that we all need in this life. Your post is a valuable testament to the difficulties SRF has sadly fallen into. I only hope and pray that they will wake up and return to the spirit of our guru as demonstrated by his life! Best to you
dawnrays Registered User (5/11/03 5:24 pm) Reply	Re: Treatment of srf families As they say in Italy "He who doesn't play the game, shouldn't be making up the rules." dawnrays
dawnrays Registered User (5/12/03 12:07 am) Reply	Re: Treatment of srf families Oh, and I DO get your drift about the socials. Particularly at the temple. Devottees tripping over each other in order to serve and impress the monks (each other?) They were always very choreographed with the emphasis being on sterile and perfect efficiency and having every minute taken up with some activity (like a child's birthday party.) Certainly nothing like nurturing a community spirit, interacting or even making sure the kids had a good time. I remember one of our Christmas parties where parents and children were actually segregated into a different table so as to make things "easier" (out of the way.) They all seem to end with the minister thanking "those who served", the bliss bunnies beaming in smug, spiritual satisfaction and everybody else shuffling around looking uncomfortable. Why? Because they had forgotten how to interact with other human beings. It's all so devalued in favor of "service" (right). If the same nurturing concern was shown for our kids (and adults in need) as we do for our gold fish and perfectly immaculate gardens, srf would be paradise. dawnrays Edited by: dawnrays at: 5/13/03 8:18:23 pm
soulcircle Registered User (5/13/03 7:27 pm) Reply	imagine Hi Guests, Friends and dawnrays, A warm welcome to dawnrays, you have rekindled my deep interest in the best of friends and this forum. Most of my response is impossible to be put in words. Thank You!!!! SRF Walrus or someone, put dawnrays' family's story in Specific Stories ASAP. Thisto me is the heart of why we still remain a community and why this forum exists. Imagine my 13 year old daughter who supports a 6 year old child in poorest slum in Dominica Republic, of her own initiative, and she can't stand an SRF Sunday School. Imagine same daughter whose God parents are near, [we live a few blocks from Richmond chapel] and whose three daughters we are the God parents of..........well that family of five is there every Sunday. That family, who all at Richmond chapel love and adore, came to the chape in 1983 and build the whole new-renovated temple. In thir year as "new devotees," on the fast track to becoming "inside devotees," I visited them weekly in their home. We have attended their three daghters' birthdays, basically without fail all of my daughter's life, and every Christmas the first people we join for breakfast are these devotees .......and you basically can't drag my daughter to SRF Imagine a few years back when the Richmond chapel put on such a big event at the Palace of Fine Arts in San Francisco for three days.........informaly we referred to it as the 1st San Francisco convocation. Anandamoy spoke to 1,000 on opening night ..........there was zilch, nada, that was family oriented Imagine SRF's board with more householders and family members than monastics, and ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Imagine~~~~~~~~~ dawnrays, imagine please dawnrays post above read at beginning of every convocation evening class, until board changes and many others were permanently in place for SRF's next 80 years. You may say that I am a dreamer...........but I am not the only one............ to Guests, Friends and dawnrays' rambuctious family, now so grown, love and kindness, and a thanks, the depth of which you will never guess. Thank Goodness for you and your husband and family, dawnrays. Thank godness for you guests, those who post as dawnrays have an those of yu who read, and hold somewhat in check your emotions. We do hear you nonetheless You have just made this forum ALL that it can be Hi I am Dave, a recovering srf a holic heypoet@aol.com circle of children foreva Edited by: soulcircle at: 5/13/03 7:34:22 pm
dawnrays Registered User (5/13/03 9:17 pm) Reply	Re: imagine Well, actually I have complained to MC about the lack of childcare at convocation. One time the kids and I were hanging around the lobby while xxxxx was lecturing and getting the usual cryptic looks from the ushers. At that particular convocation they were complaining on the loudspeakers about the older kids riding up and down the elevators and would the parents please DO SOMETHING? I took in a little bit of the lecture despite being out in the hall, where xxxxx was dispensing some rather naive "parenting advice" to the all adult audience. I believe at that same or maybe a previous convocation, Bro xxxxxxx said something almost equally as stupid that went along the lines of "don't say NO to your children". I wrote to MC the next week to ask where the monastics got off giving parenting advise? After all, every good mom scolds her kids and it's called, um, discipline (not to mention safety, setting boundaries, etc). Also, how would they take it if we householders told them how to run their ashrams? (Not a bad idea, from the looks of some of these posts from ex-monastics). Also I inquired as to why there was no childcare, classes or activities at convocation. MC had to nerve to write to me that they "didn't have the resources". I wrote back to that of course they had the resources because the ratio of children to adults at convocation looked to me to be about 50 to 1. There were certainly two very spacious gift and book areas and plenty of volunteers just standing around smiling. To my mind the whole concept of convocation is pretty sick and self-serving (like most things srf) anyway. It is not a "spiritual" gathering and just reinforces their cult status. These people are performing and the rest of us are just a passive audience or robot-like volunteers. It's not much different at a temple service, a retreat or any function where monastics are present. One reason so many people leave srf is because it's darn near impossible to raise kids in such an atmosphere. On a more positive note, don't believe anything they say about Ananda. My dealings with them so far have been super positive and helpful. While it is still very adult, our new ministers are a married couple with a grown daughter (raised at Ananda Villiage). The devottees are also very nice to our older children. Kriyabans need love too! Love, dawnrays Edited by: dawnrays at: 5/17/03 9:23:35 am
AumBoy Registered User (5/15/03 6:58 pm) Reply ezSupporter	Thanks Hello DawnRays, Thanks for your posts. There's not much that I can add to what you've written above. AB
crogman1 Registered User (5/17/03 7:32 am) Reply	Re: imagine The focus of SRF is the monastics. They are special, they represent the higher way to live, they are closer to God. What BS. What cult thinking. They miss Master's point completely. This is the age of better understanding of spiritual principles (not good understanding, just better!!!). The ego based monastic leaders need to find a planet still in the Dark Ages to enjoy. I am sure they will next life. Due to the focus on monastics families have not place, certainly not kids. What a shame. Kids are not superior beings but certainly deserve a place in our church. They have none. Their treatment at Convocation is a bad joke which only cult members would put up with.
soulcircle Registered User (5/17/03 11:34 am) Reply	crogman1 ......your insight and expression crogman1, Guests and All, Thank you crogman1. Occassionally I walk the few blocks over [or drive] to the richmond chapel. Last night there was a seminar on "listening" at 7:30 in the evening, lead by non-listening srf monks deva and atman. Half way through deva's intro he asked if everyone was good up to this point. Upon rasing my hand, he called on me, no one had spoken other than him. Thirty people were there. I said, "I think we all have the "listening" down pretty good. Several of you have known me for 23 years, deva, we have known each other for 20 years, [now that I don't attend] every week my wife [who does attend] comes home and says today so and so asked what happened to Dave Dunlop. Well, I listened for 23 years, the problem for me is I never had a voice!" [and this comes from a former temple secretary, maintenance chair, unofficial "mayor" at the richmond chapel]. Of the thirty people, two are fellow walri although they have made only one post [one not posting at all that i am aware of], one devotee sat up straight seeming attuned and considering a supporting comment. One who is becoming a close friend emailed me afterwards, asking to hear more from me. My basic take on the other 25 people is that they want to adore to monastic gods and don't want a voice, perhaps a convuluted way to adore Divine Mother who leads us to high consciousness [not sheephood]. Deva after saying so I hear you saying you don't feel that you have a voice and continued intro. As his gaze was buried on a quote he was reading, I rose from my seat in the very back of room and walked out unnoticed. My absence would have only been noticed by any observant ones remembering I had commented and who made a point of looking for me. And more important than that they don't want a voice, I had considered reading the first paragraph of your post beginning this topic dawnsray, and will in a similar opportunity in a similar sized group, knowing that at the very top, our unGod realized leader [granted on a good year she might have a moment of realization],......that daya doesn't listened, and the deva, personal friend that he is, when he chooses to be, has a lifetime habit of not listening, and he is is one of the "good" monastics,who is known on ocassion to listen, I admit. good for a good laugh that a lifetime non-listener gives seminars on "listening." I remind some of you that in a temple sunday school room in richmond, on a sunday in 1996 in November, vishwu and booma attended a devotee lead [and originated] open expression forum for over an hour, and after vishwu's arrival when he had been diplomatically told to shup up [ he started to immediately take control of the group], he said 10 minutes later, there is only one word for what is happening here, "FELLOWSHIP!" ~~~~~~~~~~ That was after my comment that he needed to just listen like all of us to the person who held the orange, and then when that person passed the "speaking orange" to another, vishwu needed to continue listening. So he was quiet ater rolling his eyes heavenward ...throwing up his hands, exclaiming and gasping, "In all my years, I have never seen, heard or been at something like this in SRF!" Dave heypoet@aol.com Edited by: soulcircle at: 5/17/03 8:34:17 pm
dawnrays Registered User (5/17/03 7:44 pm) Reply	Re: crogman1 ......your insight and expression I am suprized you still have so much to say after being treated like a non-person for so long. My advice would be to quit attending. Period. Regardless of what your wife does, you need to do this for yourself. I realize you aren't asking, but for me, once I made that total break, I felt so much better and freer. Never to have to listen to some monastic spouting naive nonsense and watch a bunch of senseless adults fawning over him/her AGAIN! (You notice how the kids never fall for this? Maybe that's why srf doesn't like them.) Never to have to listen to some service reader that looks and acts like an undertaker, AGAIN! Read Donald Walter's aka Kriyananda's book, THE PATH, my husband is reading it and quoting it to me here and there. He ain't perfect (but neither is daya ma, so ha ha). He says that monastics are pretty much irrelevant these days and I agree. In this "higher age" the Mystery Schools deal more with applying spiritual values to REAL LIFE. Let us not confuse purity with lack of opportunity, after all. Love, dawnrays Edited by: dawnrays at: 5/17/03 9:11:45 pm
soulcircle Registered User (5/17/03 8:13 pm) Reply	dawnrays I had reached this same conclusion shortly after writing my post, and was even the more fascinated to read your post
dawnrays Registered User (5/17/03 9:08 pm) Reply	Re: dawnrays Oh, believe me, I know it's harder with a spouse involved. I think I would have run away screaming years ago if my husband weren't so devoted (miserable, but devoted). Even so it took a good solid week of nagging (the walrus finally did it for him) to convince him to read it and then he decided to leave too. He just sort of needed a few more facts to back up what he already knew. Edited by: dawnrays at: 5/17/03 9:12:44 pm

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