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KS
Registered User
(12/22/01 10:07 am)
 emotional abuse and karmic training?
Original message from USERNAME 12/22/01. I think it deserves its own thread.
(original: pub78.ezboard.com/fsrfwal...1&stop=35)
Quote:
Username: Can we discuss the difference between emotional abuse and karmic training? When I read the comments, my mind feels muddled. This usual means that something is ringing true but that I don't really have a handle on it.
Is emotional abuse karmic training when it is done by someone enlightened who somehow knows your past and future?
Is emotional abuse a criminial act?
Is emotional abuse something that SRF could be charged with court-ordered compensation for? If the same actions occurred within a corporation to employees, what labor laws apply?
Did we all start to copy these abusive styles?
Look at our life and our own interactions with others, are they abusive? Or do we try to never hurt others?
Do we attack or interact with others like in a group encounter session - rudely pointing out their flaws?
How did being around this atmosphere for so many years affect your personality?

Raja Begum
Unregistered User
(12/22/01 10:10 am)
 Out of the Swamps of the Kali Yuga
Most monastic orders tend to look to the past when deciding how to define themselves. But is that really a healthy idea when, according to Sri Yukteswar, the past they are looking to happens to be the Kali Yuga?

Run under a Guardian paradigm, religious orders tend to appeal to tradition and stay mired in the swamps of a tired past rather than make an effort to meet the progressively unfolding future.

There isn't too much mention of monasticism in the Vedas. Indeed monasticsm may well have been the result of disenchanted class of Kshatriyas in the middle ages needing to find new war to wage. One need only call to mind the life of St. Ignatius of Loyola. Looking for an enemy to fight, they found one within. For what can be a more formidable opponent than one's own desires and sexual impulses? The war against human nature is the ultimate Kshatriyan piece de resistance.

This will to power over one's self may have some serious negative psychological repercussions. What can we expect from someone who lives in constant antipathy to his own human nature? Can we expect him to be well-versed in the art of empathy and compassion?

The final words in Sri Yukteswar's "The Holy Science" is an appeal for making love the ultmate goal of life.

But the human heart in the Kali Yuga, according to Sri Yukteswar, was always in a state of misconception and darkness: "In this state man is called Sudra, or belonging to the servant class, because his natural duty then is to serve the higher class people in order to secure their company and thereby prepare his heart to attain a higher stage." (The Holy Science 57-58 )

We can deduce from SY's comment that, in the Kali Yuga, autocracies and dictatorships would have the perfect environment to flourish whether in a monastic community or in the political / social sphere because people looked up to authority figures for guidance -- often rather indiscriminately. Thus the cult of obedience was born -- the slave / master ethos. This also is a good argument for why spiritual aspirants following traditional paradigms often end up structuring their psyche's vertically -- with their human feelings and emotions in submission to their wills.

It is no wonder so many monastic based religions such as SRF steer clear of psychology -- whose cardinal rule is self-acceptance -- and remain caught in the game of self-denial (called "self-control" ) and power over others ( "loyalty" and "obedience" ).

But Sri Yukteswar makes it very clear that this is not to be the mode of living for this new age, In the current Dwapa Yuga, man reaches the state of Sandhisthala ("the place between the higher and the lower" . Bathed in this new vibration, men "need help from one another; hence mutual love, the principal necessity for gaining salvation , appears in his heart." Such a man "affectionately keeps company with those who destroy troubles, clear doubts, and afford peace to him, and hence avoids whatever produces the contrary result..."

It seems to me that we NF "Idealists" have an important role to play in this arena of understanding. Everything we gravitate towards -- the healing arts, counseling, creating intimate and loving relationships -- is resonant to that chord.

KS
Registered User
(12/22/01 11:31 am)
 Re: emotional abuse and karmic training?
The confusion with the laws of karma and “training” are so widespread that I suspect I understand only half of it myself. Many devotees I know myself feel that most of what happens to them is the direct result of karma, ignoring the impact of free will in our lives. There is also a Pollyanna approach to karma and training.

Many people are going through difficult times now. Yet again and again I hear devotees say, “Just wait, Master has something wonderful planned for you!” What? We make our own choices. In addition, look around you at how many people are involved in “something wonderful”. To think that we go through a little suffering and then are rewarded is naive.

SRF uses the “training” excuse to good advantage and many devotees pick it up from them. SRF hits you over the head, and then everyone assumes it is training, often training from God or Master. I wish I could go through life like that, with a “get out of jail free” card in my pocket. Abuse someone in public, steal from them, ruin part of their life, and then have everyone around them saying it was just training. Wow!

Then have people tell the poor soul not to worry because God has something wonderful in mind for them.

pschuppe
Registered User
(12/22/01 8:18 pm)
 Re: emotional abuse and karmic training?
I hadn't seen this thread before posting on the other (monastic orders), so this is a double post:

Great discussion! Thanks Connundrum, Username, KS, Raja, for the excellent questions/points. Most of these points are based on Raja's post:

Because our culture/government is democratic, the average person in the USA tends to view with skepticism any thought that another person might be more advanced than he is spiritually. After all, aren't we all "created equal?" Or are some of us "more equal" than others?!

Our laws and cultural mores don't readily accept the possiblity that someone like a Master or a Sri Yukteswar might be able to offer an enlightened form of discipline that is truly effective, but may appear outwardly somewhat brutal (or at least blunt). Hence, by todays legal interpretations, Sri Yukteswar would probably lose in court. Some disgruntled ex-disciple would sue and collect. (Not that SY would probably ever get into the situation in the first place--and it would only apply to being in the USA.)

But IMHO, it all comes down to who's doing the training (and with what level of realization), and who's being "trained". I'm probably pushing some buttons Raja, but hear me out! My point is that training in the hands of a master tends to be effective, even if outwardly it looks rough or callous. Rough training for the sake of roughness however, is otherwise pointless--or worse (and I wouldn't be surprised if even the Army wakes up and smells the coffee on this point eventually).

Based on Sri Yukteswar's comments in THS, it seems like the Dwapara model of monasticism will eventually evolve away from celebacy/cloisters and toward balance/moderation/cooperation in a householder setting. The goal is personal evolution and growth, not any specific "one-size-fits-all" form. Kali Yuga monasticism relied on a rigid form of behavior and a fairly rigid set of roles as a guarantee of growth. Frankly that can lead to all sorts of abuse (as Raja has pointed out repeatedly and convincingly). In the future, I think we'll see individual GROWTH, not any specific behavioral form as the driving force. The specific behavioral model and style will depend on the individual in question. Ultimately, true teaching is individual.

Raja Begum
Unregistered User
(12/23/01 2:27 pm)
 Soul Games
Quote:
But IMHO, it all comes down to who's doing the training (and with what level of realization), and who's being "trained". I'm probably pushing some buttons Raja, but hear me out! My point is that training in the hands of a master tends to be effective, even if outwardly it looks rough or callous. Rough training for the sake of roughness however, is otherwise pointless--or worse (and I wouldn't be surprised if even the Army wakes up and smells the coffee on this point eventually).


You aren't pushing any buttons. Maybe it didn't come out in prior discussions, but I'm not adverse to a Master resorting to whatever it takes. Even in this situation, the master requires constent of the disciple. But what we have in a lot of spiritual organizations are leaders trying to act like masters. Big difference.

There are all kinds of games a person can play in this universe. You can play the love game. You can play the discipline game. In my opinion, you get to choose what game you want to play with God. Like going to the AMC 14 and picking the movie you want to watch. That's the Divine Romance.

Some people like their lovers to bring them flowers, to cuddle them and say sweet words. Other people want their lovers to tie them up and smack them around. Which is right? Which is better? Isn't it an individual choice? Ultimately both ways are merely ritual games the soul plays on the field of possibilites. Ultimately, there is only one motion, according to Sri Yukteswar, which leads to salvation -- that man abandons the vain idea of his seperate existence.

The rest is Lila. So yes, there is no one-size-fits all. I'm increasingly under the suspicion that SRF has narrowed the field of possibilities. My friend, Should Free, and I believe the Guardian majority in SRF have decided to make SRF into an exclusively Guardian game, without providing an alternative to other types. The Guardian game has its own spectrum of possibilities, but none of them are an authentic fit for the other types.

Anyhow, if the path of harsh discipline were God's preferred method of evolving souls, that would make the U.S. Navy Seals saints!! Believe me, we ain't that tough.... Check 'em out: Link to US NAVY SEALS Another link on SEALS

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