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SRF Walrus > Non-SRF Teachings and Ideals > For Sacred Lovemaker & Others
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rayuna Registered User (2/25/02 7:38 am) Reply	For Sacred Lovemaker & Others Hi, I'm creating a new thread so that it's visible and I appreciate your efforts. I really hear your appeal for meaningful and on-the-subject discussion, which is better adhered to here than most other boards, SRF or not. I also hear, feel and resonate with your take on embodied spirituality. I'd have honored you by posting in your thread, but it probably would get buried...and I'll probably catch some flak too, oh well...bring it on. I probably won't be able to comment on everything that's come up in the previous comments in one post. Never once has sex diminished my Kriya practice. At the same time I appreciate Master's technique in one lesson where he gives a way to transmute sexual energy up the spine and use it for creative projects or the search for God. I've used this to great benefit as I've made and make love to great benefit. I also agree with your focus on intimacy, love-through-touch, and the heart connections of sexual encounters. Of course it takes a certain person and orientation to see sex this way. And though what I'm about to say relates to orgasm, isn't that another word for ecstasy, spiritual ecstasy? One idea behind sacred sexuality is whole-body orgasms, not just local to the genital and second chakra area. If one guides sexual energy in this way, a deeply connective and spiritual experience is naturally created, leading to intimacy, loving touch and the heart-to-heart meeting of both the partners and the Divine in the partners, i.e., the Divine in the human. Much of the taboo on sex is from a spirituality based on morality, rather than a morality based on spirituality. Spirituality to me is inclusive and true spirituality is universal, i.e., it accepts all forms of life and all expressions. Two of the most devout and steadfast lovers of God I know are gay and in SRF. I wonder what SRF knows of them and don't think they look upon homosexuality too kindly. Even divorce is a failure according to SRF. (Master is one of my best friends. I don't equate him with SRF. He's so hip ) Morality to me seems to be human-born, whereas spirituality has a Higher birth. Morality is punitive and black & white. All Life is sacred and spirituality can't be removed from any aspect of it. We segregate spirituality to certain areas. Spirituality can't be about absolutes. It's also often forgotten that Yukteswar, despite his intimidating discipline, is actually quite warm in the Holy Science. What you called the 'heart's natural love' is where it's at. These teachings have become "rigidified" by our own psychological complexes, reinforced with an assembly-line mentality in the leardership. In the tape played during the Kriya ceremnoy Master says that we're not associated with a "printing machine" but with "living truth" and a line of living Masters. He doesn't advocate emotional or physical repression or suppression. Hope to discuss this further. Constructively. Edited by: rayuna at: 2/25/02 8:45:42 am
aja Unregistered User (2/25/02 9:22 am) Reply	Re: Misunderstanding and perverting sacred teachings In my opinion you all are misunderstanding your much-quoted phrase from Sri Yukteswar "the heart's natural love". His "heart's natural love" is not a carnal love seeking sexual expression. On the contrary, it is love on such a high level, such a universal level that sex does not even exist there. You'll notice the inconvenient little fact that Sri Yukteswar was already a celibate swami when he wrote that book. Same goes for Lahiri Mahasaya. He only slept with his wife to have children, and after they the last one was conceived he never again had sex. When he was out there teaching his Kriya Yoga to the people who visited him he wasn't having sex with them to show them his heart's natural love, was he? Neither was Sri Yukteswar making love to little Mukunda to show him how unconditionally he loved him, was he? IMO you are doing to these teachings what Americans have done to Tantra. Boy, you give them anything sacred or holy and it doesn't take long before they've found a way to use it for sex. How sad...
username Registered User (2/25/02 7:21 pm) Reply	Re: Misunderstanding and perverting sacred teachings aja, According to Shibendu Lahiri, it is NOT TRUE that Lahiri stopped having sex with his wife. According to the family, children were conceived AFTER he met Babaji. This may well be another SRF misrepresentation. Do you know where this comes from, I know, I had heard it also. Is it written in some SRF publication or do they just tell you this in lectures?
AumBoy Registered User (2/25/02 7:27 pm) Reply	Re: Misunderstanding and perverting sacred teachings Sri Yukteswar had a wife and a daughter. He became an ascetic after his wife died. I think he outlived his daughter, too.
Sacred Lovemaker Unregistered User (2/26/02 1:32 am) Reply	The Heart's Natural Love Aja, are you fearful that I'm going to turn SRF into a tantric cult? You're halfway out of time because kriya is essentially a tantric technique. You must have a dirty mind to see perverts where angels reside. I have no clue where you get the idea that I'm some libertine trying to make SRF into a love shack. Baaaaad Devotee You wrote: "His "heart's natural love" is not a carnal love seeking sexual expression. On the contrary, it is love on such a high level, such a universal level that sex does not even exist there." ...I'm sure many things do not exist there...like the Walrus Board, pizza, the Lakers, and all of our wonderful problems!!! *Quote:* What you are referring to is the heart's natural love cleansed of all external ideas and comprehending it as Universal Substance or Sat Chit Ananda. Sri Yukteswar explains: "The adepts...having full control over the whole material world, find their Divinity or Savior in Self and not outside in the external world -- Holy Science pg. 40. Hey, let's get real. You and I and the rest of us don't have control over the whole material world. So we ain't adept yet. We're what you can call practicing yogis. So what do we do with our tainted love in the meantime? We are to deal with love as we know it. Then, eventually, we realize that love is a quality independent of external agents. People who have a maturely developed sexuality are generally not at risk of falling into a slavish relationship with their carnal instincts. If anything, they want to go beyond them by putting more heart into the matter. I would think the people most at risk of perverting the heart's natural love are those who are unconsious of their sexuality, for they are not aware of where their carnality ends and love begins. A case can be made that Sri Yukteswar was not against yogis experiencing the natural delights of the householder's life. For he explains that, once man begins to develop magnanimty of the heart and becomes fit for the practice of Asana, Pranayama and Pratyahara, then..... *Quote:* These practices enable man to satisfy his heart by enjoying the objects of the senses as intended for Garhasthyasrama (domestic) life" --- Holy Science pg. 52 Those who seriously try to awaken magnanimity in their heart -- by removing the obstacles of hatred, shame, fear, grief, condemnation, race prejudice, pride of pedigree and a narrow sense of respectability --- cannot bring themselves to exploit others. Furthermore, Sri Yukteswar writes.... *Quote:* Out of this creation, the object that relieves us of our miseries and doubts and administers peace to us, whether animate or inanimate, and however insignificant the same may be, is entitled to our utmost respect. Even if it be regarded by others as an object of vilest contempt, it should be accepted as Sat (Savior) and its company as Godlike. That which produces opposite results, destroying our peace, throwing us into doubts, and creating our miseries, should be considered Asat the bane of all good, and should be avoided as such. --- Holy Science pg. 40 This opens the spiritual path to widely different and subjective applications. You may hold sexuality in vilest contempt, but I don't. If my lover brings me peace and nurturance, if she makes me happy and free of doubt and misery, then, according to Sri Yukteswar, I am to consider her Sat and her company as Godlike. You, on the other hand, may consider it Asat. And it probably would be for you. This is one reason why I am not interested in debating the viability of sacred sexuality on the spiritual path with high toned moralists. Again because, Sri Yukteswar has counseled me, through this quote, to respect what brings me joy and peace even if you or anyone else regard it as vile or insignificant. And it would be Asat of me to try to persuade you to my way. Remember what Guruji said about people with different crazinesses getting together? Suppose I'm just a crazy, unevolved ignoramus who doesn't know what I'm doing on the spiritual path or what I should do with my heart's tainted natural love? Let's see how it works for a bunch of idol worshippers... *Quote:* Ignorant people in their blind faith would accept a piece of wood or stone as their Savior or Divinity in the external creation, for which their heart's natural love will develop till by its energetic tendency it will relieve them of all exciting causes, cool their systems down to a normal state, and invigorate their vital powers." --- Holy Science pg. 40 "Their heart's natural love will develop..." Ya dig?
username Registered User (2/26/02 5:56 am) Reply	To aja *Quote:* IMO you are doing to these teachings what Americans have done to Tantra. Boy, you give them anything sacred or holy and it doesn't take long before they're found a way to use it for sex Some Indians, like those from the state of Bengal, where Yogananda was from, have practiced sexual tantra. This is nothing that Americans have done to the teachings. I do not know how many Indians practice sexual tantra, but I assume it is a very small percentage. I can provide you with specific reference sources on this, if this is something you want.
willy1080 Registered User (2/26/02 7:46 am) Reply	Re: To aja Dear username , Can you post those references here , I am quite interested in what you might have It seems Hariharananda comes from a family of a famous bengali tantric, mebbe that is the reason why his kriya is so different regards
aja Unregistered User (2/26/02 8:08 am) Reply	username goes tantric *Quote:* Some Indians, like those from the state of Bengal, where Yogananda was from, have practiced sexual tantra. Indeed, and if you all wish to practice it, you are welcome to it. Here are some examples for you all to follow: A few years ago a tantric in India dreamt that Kali was asking him for a human sacrifice. So he took his whole family to bathe in the Ganges in Banaras and cut off his youngest daughter in law's tongue to give to Kali as an offering. The rest of the family, by now dancing and singing in "holy trance", thought they had a vision where Kali asked them for a sacrifice, so they promptly killed the old man. Hope you enjoy emulating these lovely tantric practices. Who shall you sacrifice first? I recommend username... It is no accident that wise men in India counsel against going down the slippery slope of tantric sex, and advice instead to stick only to the spiritual side of tantra. Almost nobody practices the sexual tantra in the real way, it always degenerates into debauchery and a life of sensual pleasures and addictions at best, or killings, maimings, and sacrifices like those in the story above, which occur with surprising regularity in India if you follow the news. *Quote:* This is nothing that Americans have done to the teachings. I do not know how many Indians practice sexual tantra, but I assume it is a very small percentage. Indeed, it is extremely small. It's not what Americans have done to it, it's how they present it: in the fictional, highly fantasized way which only Americans know how to do ("Would you like Supersized Fries and a 64oz Coke with that?"). The way Americans have presented tantra in the ever-greater number of books and tapes and videocassettes coming out has almost nothing to do with the real tantra of India. It's all pure Americana, marketing hype and fluff. But by all means go ahead and dive right into it if that's your thing, far be it for me to tell anyone what to do with their lives.
rayuna Registered User (2/26/02 11:35 am) Reply	Re: username goes tantric Uh...um...what has meaningful, deeply moving and connective sexual union with one's committed life partner, as an extension of human and Divine love have anything at all to do with with a crazy banshee's karmically propelled sacrificial tendencies? Also, can you point to a factual reporting of this incident in the press or elsewhere. In fact, there are extremists in every tradition...remember the Inquisition? We're not speaking of casual sex here, though that can be a gift on occasion too. We're, or at least I am, speaking about two people that take their relationship vows seriously and feel sex is one, yes only one, way to celebrate these vows and life. And all this anti-Americanism. I don't like consumerism and the trend toward a coca-cola monoculture anymore than you do, but hey, perhaps if Kriya worked for you, you'd be at least more relaxed. Edited by: rayuna at: 2/26/02 11:37:36 am
username Registered User (2/26/02 12:18 pm) Reply	Thugs There was a group in India during the British occupation that did human sacrifices to Kali. One of the British officers was found dead, and the British sought to remove all thugs. I have not heard about any human sacrifices in today's time. I never researched this at all, but someone had told me that a film was made of the topic, and I rented the film. Film is called the Deceivers starring Pierce Brosnan, Saeed Jaffrey, director Nicholas Meyer Let it be known that most people who worship Kali, did not perform human sacrifices. There is actually a Kali group in Laguna Beach and no they do NOT PERFORM HUMAN SACRIFICES nor do they practice tantrik sex. www.kalimandir.org Kali is the main goddess that they worship in Bengal. Yogananda writes in his Auto of a Yogi about worshipping Kali (look it up) but Yogananda didn't perform human sacrifices nor tantrik sex (at least not to my knowledge) Edited by: username at: 2/26/02 3:10:15 pm
Terrie Unregistered User (2/26/02 12:48 pm) Reply	Question re: transmuting sexual energy Which lesson (number) has Yogananda's technique for transmuting sexual energy? I have all the lessons, but maybe you can post the technique on this board if it isn't too long?
username Registered User (2/26/02 1:05 pm) Reply	Tantras There are lots of Tantra texts now available in English. Here is a small list of some books available on Tantra. These are not sex manuals. 1) Sir John Woodroffe books, Principles of Tantra and others 2) Tantra in Bengal S.C. Banerji 3) Fundamentals of the Philosophy of Tantras ( Manoranjan Basu) 4)The Krama Tantricism of Kashmir Navjivan Rastogi 5)The Saktas Ernest A Payne 6) Introduction to the Tantraloka Navjivan Rastogi 7) Lalita- Sahasranama R. Ananthakrishna Sastry Mahanirvana Tantram M N Dutt 9) Siva Sutras Jaideva Singh 10) Practicals of Mantras & Tantras L R Chawdhri 11) Vedic Tantrism M S Bhat 12)The World of Tantra B Bhattacharya 13)the Aghora books by Robert E Svoboda There is an immense amount of this literature once you start noticing it. (These are not available at Crown Books) you need to find bookstores that carry Hinduism texts: in Los Angeles, the Bodhi Tree, Vedanta Bookstore in Pasadena, Oriental Bookstore In Virginia, Nataraj books In India, Motilal Banarsidass All of these bookstores, with maybe the exception of Oriental Bookstore, have web sites. And they have sections of books on Tantra. Ask them for their listing by subject. Ramakrishna was trained by a tantrik guru, so lots of Ramakrishna literature will mention it. I would especially recommend Sri Ramakrishna, the Great Master. This book also tells of one priest (or someone associated with the Kali temple) used to go to sex "circles". And the folks at the temple used to tease him about this. I don't recall the page references to these. Ramakrishna, the guru of Vivekananda, worshipped Kali. Yogananda tells a story of going to the this Kali temple in Auto of a Yogi. One of Ramakrishna's disciples, the one who wrote the Gospel of Ramamkrishna) was a teacher, a believe, of Yogananda at the grade school where he attended. It is in the Auto of a Yogi. Tantra has a right and left path. This is also referred to as the white and black paths.
rayuna Registered User (2/26/02 1:10 pm) Reply	Transmutation & Childbirth The technique for transmutation of sexual energy is early on regarding couples and marriage and so forth. I'd venture to say Step 1. Posting here...hmm...let me what Guru says. Essentially the same technique is used during intercourse if there's an intention to impregnate. Master says that to draw the soul most suitable to any couple, prayer and carnal relations kept on divine plane are the way to attract that one soul among many, waiting for incarnation in the astral. Think of God during the act and at the climax bring all attention to (where else?) the spiritual eye. One powerful soul is now with me as a result. My child is a super blessing in my life. Again, he is the hippest Guru Perversion? I DON'T THINK SO! Edited by: rayuna at: 2/26/02 1:21:56 pm
Lobo Registered User (2/26/02 9:58 pm) Reply	Re: Tantras Master Mahasaya, the "M" of Sri Ramakrishna Gospel fame, was actually the great devotional, humble saint that spoke to the Divine Mother (Kali) in the presence of the little Mukunda. He was someone that Mukunda wanted to be his guru, that is how much he was attracted to him. In the book Biography of a Yogi, about Swami Satyananda, Master's boyhood friend, fellow gurubhai of Yukteswar, his disciple Satyeswananda writes that Mukunda used to regularly visit Dakshineswar during this time, which means he probably met such highly evolved Ramakrishna chela's as Brahmananda, Premananda, Shivananda and the rest.
username Registered User (2/27/02 5:31 am) Reply	Re: Tantras Biography of a Yogi about Swami Satyananda....publisher and author please
willy1080 Registered User (2/27/02 7:28 am) Reply	Re: Tantras I think it is Swami Satyeswarananda from Sanskrit Classics
AumBoy Registered User (2/27/02 10:48 am) Reply	Re: Question re: transmuting sexual energy Terrie, It's lesson 35: Spiritualizing the Creative Force
Terrie Unregistered User (3/4/02 10:38 am) Reply	Transmuting sexual energy Aumboy, thank you for the reference. I think I'd better start reading the lessons all over again. I seem to have forgotten so much. My lessons are old and yellowed, from the 70s.

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