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etzchaim Registered User (8/8/03 7:15 am) Reply	Lahiri Mahasya and celebacy Is Lahiri Mahasya not a 'great spiritual' leader because he was married and wasted all that ojas? What is an aversion to sensuality, really? What really causes the scattering of energy? Is there a kind of fixation on 'sex' that has caused an aversion to it, or a fear of it's destructiveness and power in certain schools of thought? Is the aversion to the destructiveness of sexuality also an attachment to sexuality? Etz
MastersChela Registered User (8/8/03 10:41 pm) Reply	Re: Lahiri Mahasya and celebacy I agree with this point, dear Etz. The Lord Buddha spoke of "the middle way." This means that we must NEVER take anything to extremes if we are to find the road to God. To throw away the desire for sex, if it is our Dharma to be in a sexual relationship, is NOT the "middle way." It seems to me that more and more in this day and age, that the road of the householder renunciate, which Yogavatar Lahiri provides us a model for, is the "middle way" for today. One thing that is important, and which is often left out by many students of the Buddha, is that Siddhartha Gautama tried BOTH ENDS of the spectrum before finding the "middle way". He was a rich, sexually active, powerful man, and also a Sadhu, practicing the most extreme of austerities. It was only after these experiences (personal experience is always the most important thing on the spiritual path, I believe), that He settled down under that Bodhi tree and began to walk the middle road. You CANNOT know the middle road if you never walk the extremes. Why are there so many stories in history and among people we all know where they "lived in sin" for many years before turning toward God? BECAUSE THIS IS THE WAY IT WORKS... ALWAYS. We need balance in all things, otherwise we will never be able to penetrate the door to Heaven. This balance even means enjoying the world of pleasures, but without being ATTACHED to that enjoyment. Divine Mother created the world that we might find pleasure in it, that it might be Her playground in the form of all of us. But it only begins to be a playground when we use it in moderation, when we don't try to keep the really good parts going all the time, when we see that half the fun is in not knowing what's coming next, in enjoying the surpirises, in witnessing the ups and downs, in seeing the results of actions and knowing that they are all happening for good reason. OM Shanti Shanti, Amen!
MastersChela Registered User (8/8/03 10:47 pm) Reply	Re: Lahiri Mahasya and celebacy Sex is good when we see it as a way to honor the divine spark in our partner, as a way to serve and to offer happiness and pleasure to another Human Soul. It becomes evil, and a "scattering of energy" when we use it for our own selfish pleasure, when we seek it for it's own sake, when we let our own sexual desires bring others down, make them feel crappy about themselves, or place them in a state of being a sexual object instead of a being of light! If sex is an act of Love, if it's used in MODERATION, if it's just one of the many ways that two people (gender and sexual orientation is irrelevent here) show their love for each other and honor the divine within each other... Then Sex is just as much a part of our Sadhana as Hong-Sau, as Kriya, as Chanting... I think that one should strive to make EVERY ACT that one commits a part of his/her Sadhana. Once that happens, then God can get in there and take over... And then you're FREE!
etzchaim Registered User (8/11/03 1:59 pm) Reply	Re: Lahiri Mahasya and celebacy MastersChela, very good posts! The Buddha seems to represent that familiar sinner/saint dichotomy and then ultimately resting in the middle that he called the Middle Path. It translates very well from meditation, with the in breath and out breath, and the rests in between, and also Ida, Pingala and Shushumna/Left Pillar, Right Pillar and Middle Pillar. When the Shakti energy is going up the + or - channels, it becomes angular and can whip around and cause all sorts of unbalanced behavior and damage. Only when it's going up the center is it going to go up gently and harmoniously. I was thinking about Hong Sau last night. It really teaches detachment, because if we can not 'act' by trying to control the breath, then when stuff occurs in our minds/bodies and outside of us, we can extend that because we have learned to not become 'locked' into the energy that is manifesting. That way, if we can remain detached, not needing to control, just being, we can act without being affected, or getting emotional. Hopefully I'm making sense. Etzchaim Edited by: etzchaim at: 8/11/03 2:01 pm
prssmd Registered User (8/17/03 3:56 pm) Reply	Re: Lahiri Mahasya, celibacy, and going nuts MastersChela writes: "Sex is good when we see it as a way to honor the divine spark in our partner, as a way to serve and to offer happiness and pleasure to another Human Soul. It becomes evil, and a "scattering of energy" when we use it for our own selfish pleasure, when we seek it for it's own sake." I completely disagree with the above account of sex. I think the above view has cause much unnecessary misery in the world. To resist fulfilling an innate drive leads to misery and psychological problems. So if a woman wants (or at least is willing) to have sex with me (as in my case I am a heterosexual male), and I'm just about to enter her, I have to stop, if I take MastersChela's advice, and ask myself, "Am I doing this to honor the divinity in this woman, or just for my own pleasure?" And then, if the answer is, as it probably will be, "Well I NEED this woman right now...so this must be for my own pleasure," I have to stop and discontinue the sexual escapade. Probably I'll end up never having sex if I always go through MastersChela's perverted little procedure, and then I'll be miserable and develop psychological problems, and not be able to meditate properly. Nope. I'm not going to take MastersChela's advice. Nature knows best.
redpurusha Registered User (8/18/03 11:51 am) Reply	Re: Lahiri Mahasya, celibacy, and going nuts prssmd writes "....and then I'll be miserable and develop psychological problems, and not be able to meditate properly. Nope. I'm not going to take MastersChela's advice. Nature knows best." It's been said by the great Masters that the abuse/misuse of sex is the greatest obstacle on the path towards Self-realization. In fact, its quite unanimous, so there must be some, is not total truth in the theory. As much as we all love to have sex (speaking for my self at least and I'm sure for most people), to waste the creative energy on physical pleasure instead of transumuting it into divine creativity and inspiration is not the best choice to make. Experience knows best. The issue is not weather to go nuts from not having sex, but how to re-direct that energy for alternative and loftier purposes. Unless you are having sex with the aim to form a baby, you are just fulfilling your lust for sexual pleasure. From my experience in life, here's how I view nature's urge to merge: Not having a girlfriend growing up, I've had to rely mainly on playing sports, art, and other physical activites to provide a positive outlet and release of that energy. Then came another phase in my life where most of this creative energy was released through sex. Now, only recently I've had some experience with the best way of re-directing the sexual energy, and that is, of what the Masters have been teaching, of meditation and transmutation. The sexual energy has to be expressed somehow, and this is, without a doubt, the most beneficial. Obviously, you have to be meditating right in order to transmute the energy, otherwise you might just go nuts if you don't get some. So, I've noticed, at least from my experience, that there are many ways to express and make use of the sexual energy and, as we make progress we will eventually find the following to be true: "Through consistent meditation, the vital forces of reproduction can naturally be transmuted into the energies of inspiration and divine creativity... It is the God-given duty of all married couples to practice meditation and moderation in their lives together, that the strenght of the sexual appetite might be transmuted into divine love within each other. The strenght of the sexual appetite that seems to captivate the mind, and man's preoccupation with it, is unquestionably the greatest obstacle to spiritual evolution and attainment of Christ consciousness. The creative life force not actually used for procreation can naturally be transmuted through meditation, and made available for the higher evolutionary attainment of Christ consciousness." -Norman Paulsen (disciple of PY) Edited by: redpurusha at: 8/18/03 11:58 am
etzchaim Registered User (8/18/03 1:25 pm) Reply	Re: Lahiri Mahasya, celibacy, and going nuts I think it's over simplification to think of sex as being for 'reproduction only'. There is much to be said for simply taking care of the physical vehicle in more ways than just cleaning, feeding and emptying it. While I agree with much of what Paulson says, I do think we need to be careful to let desire drop off naturally, rather than forcing ourselves to live a kind of life that is beyond our capabilities and causing ourselves damage because we have a fear of sexuality, or are experiencing some other form of aversion, that we believe it is 'dirty', for example. It's the extremes, I think, that we need to avoid. Personal ahimsa, perhaps? Etzchaim
username Registered User (8/18/03 5:30 pm) Reply	Re: Lahiri Mahasya, celibacy, and going nuts I believe I have a efile that I can send with detail instructions on the "higher sex act". I would need your email address. Send me a message if you would like to have a look at it. (I believe I posted it on this board once and the board police removed it.)
OneTaste Registered User (8/18/03 10:57 pm) Reply	Re: Lahiri Mahasya, celibacy, and going nuts *Quote:* I believe I posted it on this board once and the board police removed it. Well, now that we are safely out here in the non-pure-land, perhaps it is safe to post it. Remember when we all used to believe that there was no dogma in SRF except "meditate!"?
redpurusha Registered User (8/19/03 5:34 am) Reply	Re: Lahiri Mahasya, celibacy, and going nuts etzchaim, you make good points, of avoiding extremes and not being averse to sex. Like in everything else, the lifestyle one chooses to live has to be tailored to the individual, there are different degrees of development, control of the life-force and success in meditation -each person has to find a healthy lifestyle/meditation routine that is right for him/her. For me, this phase of keeping sexual actitivity to a minimum, and trying to transmute that energy through meditation, is new to me, and I've had some surprisingly positive results.
username Registered User (8/19/03 8:46 am) Reply	Re: Lahiri Mahasya, celibacy, and going nuts Sexual Tantric Meditation Tantra has a unique approach to life in general and to meditation in particular. It is a system of self-development which accepts life fully, exalting experience without reservation and having no place for philosophical concepts such as sin, which only serve to generate guilt and psychological complexes. These are the exact antithesis of the calm and relaxed state of mind which is the prerequisite for higher meditation and spiritual realization. It is from this outlook that tantra makes use of all activities equally, seeking to spiritualize or transform all life activities into acts of awareness and devotion to the primal power or Shakti, the highest force, which in tantra, is conceived of as a feminine power. The most powerful of all drives in man are the instincts for self-preservation, procreation and sensual pleasure. While many systems advocate a struggle to overcome these 'lower' desires, tantra maintains that this approach can never lead to successful meditation but only to self-suppression, 'pseudo-purity', mental imbalance and physical illness. There is a tantric maxim which states that 'one must rise through that by which one falls', and this underlies the tantric approach to sex. According to tantra, one can never go beyond the sexual plane of existence by denying it, but only by accepting it fully, utilizing and spiritualizing one's natural sexual activities in the path to greater awareness. In this way one Will evolve to a state of true understanding of all of life, including sex, Only from such a stable base can transcendence of the mind be attained. At that point, the mode of brahmacharya (including spontaneous celibacy) will dawn effortlessly. However, to attempt an enforced renunciation of a perfectly normal and natural human function, while the mind is full of sexual fantasies, is only a form of self-repression, and is very far from true brahmacharya. Tantra accepts that everyone is not at the same level in spiritual development, and that each individual has specific needs and requirements according to his or her nature and level of spiritual evolution. At the same time tantra offers a way suited to every aspirant, and includes sex as a means of evolution. Sex can be used as a means of developing spiritual awareness, and opening up the higher chakras or planes of consciousness. It can be the key to higher awareness for many people who have retreated into a spiritual way of life which really only avoids personal contact and intimacy, and is a shield behind which one hides from one's own inadequacies and flaws of personality. Tantra never degrades the mighty gift of sexuality but gives it the respect it deserves. Sex is never denigrated or practised in an unaware or animalistic manner, but is elevated to its rightful place, the plane on which two people can lose their personal identity in one another, merging into union with the universal consciousness which is the goal of all true meditation. That experience is difficult to attain; it is the goal of all yoga, and is experienced by dint of long years of purification of body and mind. Similarly through conscious sex, it is possible for two suitably evolved aspirants to obtain the same experience of cosmic consciousness, losing all barriers of individuality and ego-orientated awareness. The path of sexual tantra has been interpreted as advocating sexual indulgence and permissiveness. But this is not the case. In fact, according to the tantra shastras, sexual meditation is a spiritual practice which is suitable only for a special class of spiritual aspirant, the vira or heroic one. Only these aspirants have the dedication and self-control necessary to elevate sexual union beyond its normal plane of passion and sense gratification, to the realm of a truly spiritual practice dedicated not to pleasure but to the mutual experience of higher states of awareness. Such aspirants possess the dedication and mental stability which enables them to practise sexual meditation to observe the experience of the senses, rather than for the sake of sensual indulgence itself. This sounds like a small qualification but by reflection you will realize the vast difference between the two outlooks. It is really only by first knowing and then rnastering the senses that they can become tools for higher awareness and meditation. The nature of most people today is that described in the tantras as pashu or animal Such people are strongly bound to the passions and senses, and are therefore unable to perceive the divine nature of sexual experience which is encompassed in sexual tantra. For this reason, the tantras maintain that they are not able to use sexual activity in a liberating way, and therefore the practices should not be revealed to them. It is the same people who can only see the practices which lead to higher awareness as being immoral, debased and licentious. They project the qualities of their own minds onto an act which is surely divine, and can lead its participants to spiritual integration. This is why some tantric practices have always been withheld from the eyes and ears of those whose stage of evolution renders them unsuited for those techniques. The practices are being published now because people are beginning to see through and remove their guilt and conditioning about sex and may be able to utilize their sexual energy in a profoundly spiritual, mystical way, for the sake of attaining higher awareness. It is with this frame of mind that sexual tantric sadhana should be approached. In samadhi the individual consciousness merges with the divine universal consciousness, and in sexual tantric meditation, the individual unites with the partner with the same attitude. For the male, the woman is approached as the embodiment of Shakti, the highest expression of divine power, and for the female, the partner is worshipped as the form of Lord Shiva. The practice itself is long and highly ritualized and is extremely beautiful, very far from the normal unaware sexual union which is characterized by self-gratification, lack of control and sensitivity. It is a truly divine experience, and just to approach sex in this way is to elevate the mind to a new and beautiful conscious appreciation of the mystery of life, and to find in the eyes of the other the mirror of one's own pure self. In tantra, the senses are utilized in order to become aware of what is beyond all sense modifications. The path of sexual tantra may appear attractive, but it must be emphasized that it will not prove to be very suitable or useful for a majority of modern men and women who desire to undertake it. To practise sexual meditation one requires a very strong and stable mind. It is said in the tantra shastras that only those who have eradicated all psychological fears are likely to achieve success with this practice. That is why aspirants are recommended to practise this form of meditation in a place of isolation, such as a jungle or wilderness. They should spend some time living a simple and purificatory yogic lifestyle, performing various sadhanas in an environment that is free from disturbance. Traditionally, aspirants were to perform this tantric meditation late at night in a graveyard or cremation ground because of its solitude and the psychological fears that such a place creates in the minds of unstable and non-heroic practitioners. Only those who are strong enough to overcome the irrational fears of a graveyard are likely to succeed with sexual tantric meditation. Nowadays it is far from practical for aspirants to put their minds to the test in a graveyard. Those who wish to utilize sexual tantra for spiritual development must strengthen their minds first through mental purification and other sadhanas. One of the most difficult aspects of spiritual sadhana is the necessity of constantly directing all one's energies- physical, mental, emotional and spiritual, into a single direction, towards a single focus of awareness. However, it is only through such one pointedness of longing and aspiration that God-realization can be achieved. In this light, tantra has the best solutions, for it allows the energies to flow naturally towards the objects to which they are naturally drawn. For a man, that object is a woman. The male aspirant elevates a woman to the status of divine and worships her as such. The woman does the same with the man. In the process, within each partner, there awakens the higher potentials and possibilities of the human heart and mind. One can perceive a means by which he can live a divine life on earth amidst his daily activities and responsibilities. All one's actions become a channel for expressing love and devotion to the cosmic power as personified in the other.When such a cosmic link is established through sexual tantric meditation, a tremendous power is generated, and the path to higher awareness becomes very clear. It is not the sexual act which is a reflection of our animal nature. Rather the animal in man is his uncontrolled passions, his anger, his greed, his lust, his insensitivity and pride. These are what are lost when the true understanding of sex dawns through tantric meditation. Sexual meditation, as enjoined by the tantras, can lead its participants to full self-integration and understanding. Although initially there is physical union of man and woman as Shiva and Shakti, this leads to the awakening within the man of the inner shakti, the hidden complementary half of his nature; and the woman with the Shiva within herself. Thus the individuals are set on a path of progressive inner self-discovery, reliance and realization which culminate in the experience of total endless awareness. Far from leading to excessive or promiscuous sexual activity, sexual tantra initiates two partners into an ongoing journey of self-discovery, producing a state of self-fulfillment in each, so that the necessity for physical union is transcended, and true brahmacharya, free of suppression, but based on higher understanding is the natural result. The sexual neurosis of modern society exists because people do not know how to elevate their natural sexual activity from the animal to the divine level of consciousness, which is the goal and purpose of the techniques of sexual tantra. How is sexual meditation practised? The key to all forms of meditation is awareness. Awareness cannot be gained overnight, but develops as one practices yoga and adopts a yogic lifestyle. The stepping stones to higher awareness are the practices of yogasanas, pranayama, mudras and other special techniques, under the guidance of a tantric master or guru. In this way the aspirant becomes aware of his or her body, mind, emotions and will. He learns to master the art of relaxation, the rules and dietary discretion and so many other things. Initially one must have awareness of the yoga practices, of the mudras (psychic attitudes), the asanas and their physical, mental and pranic effects, the breath, and the possibility of manipulating the pranic energies of the subtle body through breath control. In addition, there area number of specific tantric practices related directly to control and rechannelling of sexual energy. These are received directly from the guru, according to the personal requirements of individual aspirants, and are perfected only over a long period of practice. They include vajroli, sahajoli and amaroli. Their perfection leads to voluntary control over the ejaculatory and orgasmic reflexes and nerve pathways and this is a prerequisite for successful sexual meditation. All these must be known through practice before one can transform the sexual act into a medium of higher conscious awareness and self-transcendence. The tantric texts maintain that sex has three separate and distinct purposes- progeny, pleasure and liberation. For the tantric sadhaka or aspirant these three roles of sex have to be clearly separated if one is to utilize sex for higher awareness. There is a full ritual practice of sexual meditation described in the tantras, called the panchatattwa sadhana (literally 'the sadhana of five elements'. There are five objects which are used sacramentally in the practice, They are meat (mansa), wine (madya), fish (matsya), parched grain (mudra) and finally sexual intercourse (maithuna). Panchatattwa is not a blind ritual but a means of developing awareness and capturing concentration so that the participants do not forget the spiritual nature of the practice they are involved in. Each element of the sadhana fully primes the senses, heightening perception and understanding. If wine is used, it is not for the purpose of becoming drunk, but to break down inhibitions, fears and emotional barriers which prevent full awareness and experience of the senses themselves. Similarly, meat, grain, fish and so on are not proposed for the purpose of gluttony but to develop and expand the awareness of the senses involved. It is to witness the senses and the mind, that panchatattwa sadhana is enjoined and not for the sake of the experiences themselves, Tantra maintains that the best way to master and transcend sensual enslavement is to witness and understand the senses and the reactions of the mind rather than to deny or suppress them. Throughout panchatattwa sadhana, it is the offering or sacrificial aspect which transforms the practice into higher meditation, The pattern of awareness is always that of offering and devotion of the elements to the divinity (Shiva or Shakti) embodied in the partner. It should never revert to self-gratification. Without this sustained awareness the practice immediately degenerates into sensual indulgence. That is not bad, but it has lost its higher purpose as a meditative practice, for the goal of union with higher awareness has been lost. Maithuna is regarded as a ritual sacrifice of oneself', and the other elements have various subtle meanings on different levels of awareness, according to the understanding of the practitioners. For example, meat can mean the offering of animal flesh to the partner but it also means the offering of the whole animal nature on a higher internal plane; madya is wine, but it also comes to mean the nectar of immortality, amrit, produced by the psychic body when higher centers are awakened. In this way the elements of the meditation have many meanings, from gross to subtle, as the awareness of the practitioners develops and their consciousness expands beyond the limitations of the physical elements of the ritual. TECHNIQUE There are many possible practices but the following is a general outline which can be suitably adapted, The ritual has many steps, but these are largely a matter of commonsense, The place of worship should be purified, sanctified and clean, All preparations must be carried out with reverence and devotion to the higher force which the partners will embody for one another, Incense can be burned; candlelight is very suitable, and a small altar can be constructed. A large mandala of two interlacing triangles can be carefully drawn on the floor encircling the practice area. After these preparations, the physical bodies are washed and purified ritualistically, with special care and devotion; each body is anointed as a temple of higher consciousness. Mental purification follows, using meditation or chanting of a mantra, such as Om. This is followed by mutual touching and anointing of the other's hands, feet, forehead, eyes, ears, lips, breasts, navel and sexual organs, while chanting a mantra, such as Om. The wine, meat, fish and grain can be offered according to the understanding and desire of the participants. The final ritual is the joining together of male and female in union. The partners sit facing each other; they breathe in unison, with an identical ratio of inhalation and exhalation, which they should not lose awareness of throughout the practice. Alternatively with exhalation they can together produce the vibrations of Om. Concentration should be focused on mooladhara chakra. When they feel the energy begin to spread upward, they draw the energy up the spinal passage with the breath and send it to each other. After a length of time, when the male is feeling a great flow of energy he draws the female (shakti) onto his lap and she wraps her legs around him and her arms around his neck. She draws the lingam (penis) into the yoni (vagina), and in unison they remain perfectly motionless. They bring their eyes and minds together through ajna chakra. Maintaining breath awareness, they join their foreheads, their eyes merging into one, together with their spirits. It is important that eye contact is established and maintained, as this holds the partners psychically together, preventing the escape of the mind into fantasy, which will quickly result in dissipation of awareness, The mind must be very stable throughout, for that is the only thing which transforms sex from an unconscious act to a spiritual meditative practice. Without a high level of self control, most aspirants will be unable to maintain awareness of the spiritual purpose of their union, and will succumb to the desire and experience of frictional orgasm. However, the goal is to remain immobile throughout, locked in static embrace, two spirits locked together physically, mentally, emotionally, psychically and spiritually without any break or distraction of awareness. This should continue until a higher 'magnetic' form of orgasm is experienced. This only occurs when there is union between all the higher bodies of the individuals. It will happen after some time, perhaps minutes or maybe hours, It is not a transitory, fleeting sensation but a total experience which proceeds for a long time, accompanied by a blissful higher conscious experience. It occurs when there is full polarization between the energies of the partners, the male's prani network being polarized to become pingala and the female's becoming ida. When ida and pingala energies are perfectly balanced and equilibrated, sushumna awakens in the field generated between and beyond the participants as kundalini awakens. This is the conscious orgasm in which the regenerative energy flows to each chakra in turn and opens it. Cosmic experience results. Many visions, experiences and states subsequently manifest,as all residual individuality is completely disintegrated in the stream of samadhi consciousness. Meditation of this kind for the attainment of higher awareness has never been restricted to the tantric tradition of India. Actually it is a practice known in spiritual traditions the world over, but it has never been widely broadcast. This is because the majority of people in a society, especially one in which a great deal of suppression and anxiety exists, will be unable to utilize or understand the practices. They would see only the negative aspects or even persecute and denigrate the practitioners, projecting their own feelings of guilt and frustration. Sex is such an emotionally charged subject, and very few people feel secure enough to be rational or detached rather than dogmatic and judgemental, whenever this topic arises. We are giving this introduction to tantric sexual meditation here because we feel that.no book on meditation could be complete without mention of this important aspect of our lives. Today many -people are wanting to know how they can integrate their sexual and spiritual lives and we feel that tantra offers the most practical, healthy and wholesome approach to this need. If you feel this technique may be for you, then practise it with love and harmony, in the purpose and spirit in which it comes to you from the tantras. Be discreet in your behavior and always have respect for the views and opinions of others. Panchatattwa sadhana is really a private matter for two suitable partners, and nothing is gained by discussing it with anyone else. If you do not feel panchatattwa is acceptable for you, please go on to discover the most suitable meditation technique for yourself. But if you are reacting negatively to the idea of sexual meditation, then please be aware of the cause of this reaction. "He who realizes the truth of the body can then come to know the truth of the universe." Note : This practice has been taken in isolation from the vast body of practical techniques known collectively as tantra and yoga. It must be understood that this practice should not be undertaken by individuals who do not follow a yogic sadhana and lifestyle under the guidance of a tantric guru.Conscious sex is but one small part of the more highly conscious yogic way of life. Without the enhanced awareness which develops through a disciplined life based in yoga, the potential and utility of sexual tantric meditation will never be realized. Many of the advanced practices can never ,.be written down, or even understood by those who are not initiated into the spiritual life by a guru. This is especially so regarding the practices leading to inner unison within the disciple,of which external sexual union is but a gross physical manifestation.
username Registered User (8/19/03 8:50 am) Reply	Re: Lahiri Mahasya, celibacy, and going nuts Friends of Babaji Yoga Circle This circle represents The Great Light which Is both inherent in and transcendental to, all structure. This spiritual energy emerges from the fountainhead of the Kriya tradition, Babaji Like the immoral Himalayan Master Himself, this energy Is not Limited geographically, culturally, or linguistically; nor Is it exclusive to any organization or individual It Is the antitheses of a personality cult and the essence of self empowerment. One moves Into and out of the circle through a shift in consciousness and not through dues or any other external displays of membership. This circle has many names and forms and yet is essentially unnameable and beyond form Friends of the circle recognize each other by the surrounding energy and the creative expression of It. "All Missions are My Mission" - Kriya Babaji September 9 1996 Dear Friend, Sub: Tantra Celebration for Couples & Singles You are cordially invited to participate in a 2000+ year old ceremony-celebration of sexual spirituality; the circle of trance and transformation through symbolic ritual and intimacy where lust is converted to universal love. (Chakra Puja). The true tantric is first and foremost a lover of the universal Mother. He or she identifies wholly with the higher cosmic Self and integrates that conciousness with the sexual energy. Ones Self and ones partner is realized as none other than the embodiment of the One God/Goddess. Celebrate in the most dynamic and ancient rites of sexual spirituality (Kaula Marg) passed down as an oral tradition and supported by the classical tantric literature such as Kulanarva Tantra, Mahnirvana Tantra, and Yoni Tatva. The ceremony will include training in the Breath of ecstasy technique (vajroli-amaroli urdvhareta). The sacred ritual of vaginal and phallic worship (Yoni-lingam Puja) as well as mantras of touch-worship and sanctification through sensation (Kama Kala) and other forms of devotional worship with your partner. Begins: Friday 25 Oct 7 PM Ends: Sunday 27 Oct I Pm Cost: $58 ($48 if check is postmarked by 21 Oct 1996 ) No discount for arriving late or leaving early. Vegetarian meals provided - Please do not bring animal products to eat.) Native American sweat lodge will be held Friday evening after sundown only if sufficient volunteers arrive by 6:00 PM to gather wood and prepare the sweat. Tentative Schedule Friday Evening: Possible sweat Saturday Morning: Breath of Ecstasy and pre-chakra puja training for new initiates. (veterans welcome as well) Saturday Afternoon: Open for suggestions Saturday Evening: Chackra Puja (formal initiations into Kriya Kaula Marg) Sunday AM: Cleanup and conclusion (Then stay a while and enjoy or visit nearby Green Valley Lake!) Chakra Puja For well more than two millennia, the climax of tantric work has culminated in the chakra puja. The word "chakra" means wheel and often refers to the vortexes of energy in the subtle bodies. "puja" is derived from the word "pu" which means flower. The chakra puja is the great circle of power where we offer our inner flowers of spiritual potential (chakras) to the cosmic Divine Mother as we harmonize our spiritual and sexual energies with our partner. The chakra puja is a tool for inner realization and empowerment. Chakra. puja refers to a circle formed by tantric couples who utilize the energy created by the participants and contained within the closed circumference to enhance conciousness and bliss. This process always incorporates sacred sounds (mantra) and mystical geometry (yantra). It will also include intimacy and sometimes union, with your partner. There are no observers, only participants. The tantric uses the tremendous sexual energy generated with ones partner in the chakra puja to achieve a transcendental experience of the divine in ones partner and ones self, embracing the physical plane to transcend the physical plane, converting lust into an ocean of love for ones partner and then riding on that sea of love to embrace all humanity leading to the great mystic universal vision of love which is referred to as vinjnana samadhi in yogic literature. God/Goddess alone exists. The tantrica embraces the divine in all things and thus attains the Brahman Consciousness. Divine Awareness Kriyas The KamaKala Kriyas are an advanced form of Nyasa. Nyasa is divine awareness placed in different parts of the body, assisted by touch. It carries a very clear sense of blessing as well. "Ni" means placing or depositing. The root "As" means to cast. The suggestion is that divine energy will be cast or generated on the limb or body segment through placement of the hands or even the mind. In nyasa the different centers of the body are identified with the corresponding centers of the favorite deity (ishta devata). Our sense of touch utilizes the largest organ of the body and is derived from the same embryonic tissue as the brain and central nervous system. In many respects, the skin is an external continuation of the brain. Far more brain tissue is directed to receiving sensory input from the skin than from the other four primary senses combined. It is well established that distressing thoughts and emotions can cause eczema, rashes, boils, psoriasis and even long term pathologies. Touch is the only sense which is absolutely essential for survival. A newborn, if not stimulated with touch, will die. This interaction between our emotions and skin is a two-way street, however, and touch can alter and enhance our moods and behavior and ultimately our health. There is an irrational fear of our sexual touching in society which precludes healthy intimacy for many - A fear of sexual intimacy with oneself as well as with others. Unfortunately it is the starvation for touch, not touch itself, which generates sexual dysfunction and promiscuity. Most of our cultures are so anti-touch that it is the norm for most individuals to hate their bodies and recoil from touch - the only true antidote for body hatred. The Kulanarva Tantra reminds us that in the varma marg, contact of bodily organs is Nysha true. In the Varma Marg, copulatory Nysha is the highest form of sanctified touching. The process of copulatory pranayam, learned from a knowledgeable tantric teacher, is a profound initiator of inner stamina and bliss. "In the copulatory yoga that is practiced By the Hero and the Heroine Upward they drive the coach of breath That has its wheels in regions right and left There they collect the waters of the heaven And never the organs tiring know Thirumandirum v. 827 Breath of Ecstasy Kriyas Pranayarn figures vitally into all advanced forms of maithuna and lata sadhana. The lunar nadi should dominate during maithuna, especially in the male, who's solar energy is strong. Says Thirumoolar... "Let them the sexual act perform When the moon's kalas shine bright And breath in suns nadi's low runs Emit bindu, the breath holding Breathing through nostril right, quelling left. Thirumandirum. v-1941 There are six such nadis used in the Breath of Ecstasy techniques including the relatively well known ida, pingala, and shushunma. In addition the Breath of Ecstasy utilizes Kuhu, Vajraksa, and Chitrini nadis. With the ecstasy technique known as Vajroli there is no orgasm and thus limited loss of vaginal or seminal fluid which is an important carrier of tejas or spiritual light. The technique of Amaroli involves drawing the energy up to the higher centers after the seminal and vaginal fluids have mixed. The Breath of Ecstasy techniques are known as Bharavi by vama Marg devotees of Babaji and the name derives from the great Bengali Tantrica, Bharavi Bramani who was initiated into vama marg tantra by Sathguru Kriya Babaji. Initiation into these important vama Marg techniques often marks a temporary point of divergence with the path of celibacy (dakshina marg). That is to say that overt sexual energy becomes a direct part of the process of spiritual unfoldment rather than seeing the mergence of masculine and feminine energy in the sadhana as either symbolic or as limited to an internal process within the practitioner as it is with the "right handed" path of dakshina marg. Ironically, a mastery of these techniques represents the climax of the path of spiritual sexuality and ultimately leads to a re-convergence with the right-handed path when the higher states are reached. The life example of Sri Ramakrishna who practiced both forms to their climax is a prime example. The full technique must be learned from a qualified practitioner-teacher and while there are many literature references, both ancient and modem, the actual technique can not be revealed in written form. Says the Kulanarva Tantra, "Urdvamnaya, which is secret of all secrets, has thus been described only in brief and not in detail. " Urdhvareta Kriya, as it has historically been known, is well over 2000 years old and is mentioned in the Ramayana and Maha Bharthya but, in the previous 200 years, probably as a result of the unhealthy influence of Victorian England on the Indian culture the word has often been mistranslated in favor of dakshina marg theology, thus distancing it from the sexual act. To the Varna Marg practitioner, the technique provides for an upward movement of sexual essence during intercourse. Urdhva Retas literally means "upward semen". In one technique during male orgasm, the shakti applies manual pressure at the root between the anus and testicles while both utilize visualizations and pranayams. Some scholars have questioned the potentiality of this technique citing that in this process, some of the semen will enter the bladder to be later voided. This does not however trouble the tantric who knows that the spiritual essence is drawn up through the subtle Kuhu nadi. The spiritual light (tejas) is thus extracted from the carrier (ojas) just prior to the release of the semen (bindu). It is not the semen or vaginal fluids which are drawn up, as some have mistakenly assumed, but the light-energy essence within them. The technique of giving upward rise of genital essence during intercourse is mentioned in the Kalivilasa tantra. The Taoists have referred to this practice as "Haun Ching", with a goal to enable the ching, or seminal essence return. According to Kulanarva, there are five "great traditions" (amnayas) of which the greatest is "Urdvum" or "upwards directed". This refers to the movement of ones essence upward through the tantric nadis to the crown. This Urdvamnaya kriya is exalted as the highest of all techniques. The technique is a form of Ajapa, familiar to initiates. An entire chapter of Kulanarva Tantra is devoted to praise of these two conjoined techniques. Lord Shiva speaks to his beloved thus, "Oh Deveshi! Know the urdvamnaya as the direct single means for emancipation yielding a greater fruit than all others and better than the best of them-Neither the vedas, agamas, sastras, puranas.. austerities.... pilgrimages ... mantras, or herbs can know about urdvamnaya. It can only be known through the mouth of the guru." The Bharavi techniques make significant use of bandas, mudras, specialized pranayams, and other kriyas and must be learned from a qualified teacher. "Lest the silvery liquid into the golden flow The artful goldsmith covered it up with yogic breath The sparks (of Kundalini) that flew traverses up by way of spinal tube There above, he contained them with tongues tip. " Thirumandirum V, 834 The obsession for withholding the orgasm in Tibetan and Taoist tantra and the orthodox Hindu community at large is not universally shared by the Vama tantric both from a philosophical perspective as well and in actual practice. The Kriya Yoga Tantra practitioner releases the semen or vaginal fluids with joy in the Divine awareness simultaneous to the chanting of the final syllable of the attendant mental mantra. The mantra may vary from one tradition to the next. Says Agehananda Bharati, "The Hindu tantric ejects his sperm, the Buddhist Vajrayana does not."(1) The mantra is mentally chanted just prior to orgasm and ends at the point of fluid release concurrent with the last mantra syllable. A (1) Exceptions could be cited on both sides. translated representative mantra is quoted from Vaidyaraj as follows... "Om, with light and ether as my two hands, I, the exulting one, relying on the ladle, I, who take dharma and non-dharma as his sacrificial ingredients, offer (this oblation) lovingly into the fire, Svaha. " Amaroli can be differentiated from Vajroli based upon the timing of release of genital fluids during orgasm. This amaroli should not be confused with the process of the same name, that of drinking of ones urine; a procedure followed by some hatha yogis, which is thought to be physically therapeutic. Whereas the vajroli mudra is performed prior to when the woman's vagina receives her partner's semen, the Amaroli mudra allows both partners to benefit from the mingling of their vital body essences. In vama marg tantra orgasm is not a goal as it is with most of humanity. Different sadhaks have different potential and therefore, while the vira and pasu have different guidelines for sadhana, one who is conscious of Brahma throughout is freed from all rule and regulation. No doubt the entire Indian society, even the tantric community, has been adversely and profoundly effected in recent centuries by Victorian suppression of sexuality and this may account for the current state of embarrassment demonstrated toward the lofty tantric traditions. With regard to the occasional absurd calls for universal celibacy, there seems to be some contradiction between the words spoken and the acts performed. One fact is clear; 902 million Indians have not been created through abstinence. The sexually active devotee (which includes those who @#%$) should proudly practice sexual tantra and transform the energy to higher conciousness. India would benefit far more from persistent attempts to encourage realistic birth control techniques than from calls for universal celibacy from "celibate swamis" who more often than not later turn out to be dabbling in sexual tantra in secret. Double talk and hypocrisy is not helpful. It is time for Indians themselves to embrace their own glorious tradition of sexual spirituality. Practitioners of tantra are at once pragmatic and idealistic. The tantric releases the semen (bija) with the final mantra of dedication to the Goddess (Swaha) This is done when the practitioner has practiced and achieved a level of competence in capturing the essence of tejas out of the ojas prior to ejaculation through the Bharavi Kriyas. "Embrace the damsel Your five sense organs with her five conjoining But, detached your passion for the woman be Like the senses that are Godward sublimated Be calm; excited be not; Sublimate your breath, senses, and mind Concentrated be your thought Thus emit your bindu. (semen)" Thirumandirum V, 1942 Even when not in union the technique can, and ideally should, be practiced in embrace with ones' partner in Prajnopaya Kriya, referred to as "Yab-Yum" by Tibetan tantrics. Through consistent practice of Bharavi, the chemistry of the central nervous system is altered to increase production of hormones and chemicals such as Di-Methyl-Tryptamine and other natural substances referred to in tantra as soma or the elixir of transcendental experience. As seen, there are actually several levels of the Breath of Ecstasy (Bharavi). As one attains a mastery of these practices it becomes increasingly clear that the path of vama marg merges with the path of dakshina marg. Esoterically the word reta is thought to synthesize both rakta (The vaginal liquids including red blood flow, or essential energy of the female) and the sukra (the white semen, containing the essential energy reservoir of the male). Within the retas is contained the ojas which is converted through the process of the kriya into tejas (light energy). The retas is directed in an "upward flow" to the higher centers. This powerful left-handed kriya technique has traditionally been a very secret process shown only to the most sincere practitioners. It should be learned from a teacher who is qualified (Adikari Acharaya) of the Kaula Kriya Yoga tradition. The technique makes use of the kuhu nadi which travels from the genitals upward as a bifurcated nadi converging at the spiritual heart as it traverses to the soma chackra through the kutastha (third eye). "The Yogi who is in ecstatic joy, unexcited performs this Yoga with woman becomes radiant like the sun an acknowledged master in directions ten." Thirumandirum V 835 In the higher reaches of this process the concentration of the mind upwards and awareness of the pervasive Divine conciousness sends a rush of the primordial force through the top of the head and the response is literally a shower of bliss and grace which can transforms ones life forever. This is referred to as samadhi and is not some distant unattainable goal. Dear One! Know that the Grace is at hand and Ye shall be Free! Relationship Ethics Tantra Yoga encourages healthy relationships based on love and respect for the divine within. For success, partners must understand the spiritual context of the practice. Both components, sexuality and spirituality must be vibrant. If the relationship is just beginning, it is the responsibility of both partners to protect themselves from sexual or other diseases by full prior disclosure. If you meet someone whom you would like to partner with communicate with them. New friends and partners going into a chackra puja are expected to communicate any health concerns and use protection or respond appropriately. Prerequisites You must be introduced by a prior attendee to participate. There are no observers; only participants. Initiation into Kriya Kundalini Pranayam and Bharavi Pranayarn Kriya requires an inner commitment in the form of an oath of dedication to that soul-source. A copy of this oath is shown in the box to the right. Participation in these powerful tantric activities assumes prior exposure to and technical practice of sexual spirituality or at minimum, a willingness to pursue it doggedly. Some of the weekend activities are clothing optional. If you have questions about any of these points, consult Ayyappa prior to registering. What to Bring In the past, red hand-spun and Hand woven cotton (khadi) has been provided for chakra puja participants, either saris or wraparounds (dhotis-lungis). We would like to continue that practice, however, our supply has diminished over the years and so we are requesting participants to bring their own chakra puja clothes. Whether you are male or female, you will need two soft red cotton cloths for yourself. One will wrap-around your waist like a beach towel and the other will fall loosely over your shoulders and cover your front. A Sari for women and red cotton waist cloth (Dhoti) with red T-shirt for men is also fine. Colors, especially red, long associated with Kali, are ideal for a chakra puja. Bring a sleeping bag, and if you want to sleep outdoors, a tent, mosquito repellent, sunscreen, a coat, and a large towel are also recommended. If you intend to sunbathe or wade in the pond by the Babaji Cave, you might also benefit from a bathing suit. Responsibilities Participants are encouraged to bring flowers to adorn the shrine and to offer at the chakra puja. All participants are expected to share in the preparation of meals and cleanup. Drivers are requested to take out 2 plastic garbage bags at the end of the weekend. (There is no garbage service at Kali Loka). BABAJI'S KRIYA YOGA PLEDGE Om Kriya Babaji Nama Aum! To: SATHGURU KRIYA BABAJI, I accept you as my ideal, without conflict with or detriment to earlier ideals. I endeavor to realize and manifest your peace, joy, light, and love into every aspect of human existence. For the benefit of humanity, I yield the narrow ego consciousness and call upon my own divine energy to ascend and merge with your Cosmic Consciousness knowing that the inner stillness and joy lies in such surrender. I will seek your divine hand in all traditions following your teachings that there are as many paths to higher life as their are pilgrims to tread the path. For the good of both myself and others, I will not reveal the advanced techniques without your authorization. I will never use the power of Babaji's Kriya Tantric Yoga to manipulate others for my own gain nor will I permit others to manipulate the Master within mySelf. I will serve humanity with the techniques of yoga without expecting anything in return. I will contemplate and dedicate myself to your lofty principles of service as follows: "I will be a balm to the sick, their healer and servitor. I will quench with rains of food and drink the anguish of hunger and thirst. In the famine of age's end I will be their drink and food. I will be an unfailing store for the poor and serve them with manifold things for their need. I will be the protector of the unprotected, a guide to wayfarers, a ship a dike and a bridge for those who seek the farther shore, and a lamp for those who need a lamp and a bed for those who need a bed." Hung Tat Sat Aum Signature Date Introductions If you have attended a Chakra Puja, this flyer may be shared with persons who demonstrate spiritual and sexual integrity. Such individuals have been introduced and recommended by a Kriya Tantra Yoga Sadhak (teacher / practitioner). This path is not intended for the masses. Children & Pets Check before bringing children or pets. Children are permitted as long as they are well behaved and do not disrupt the meditative energy. Children over 8 who have demonstrated a sincere spiritual interest may attend. Younger children are permitted if the parent assumes responsibility. Those under 18 will not attend the full Chackra Puja. We request those with children to bring a tent. Location The Kriya Tantra Yoga Ashram (Kali Loka) is a 2 1/2 acre retreat dedicated to the study and practice of Kriya Tantra Yoga. It is located on the east side of the San Bernardino Mountains at a 6,500 foot elevation surrounded by the San Bernardino National Forest. Kali Loka is bordered directly by national forest land on the east. This area of the San Bernardino's is blessed by a forest as magnificent as any in southern California. Here grow dense and stately stands of Jeffrey pine, ponderosa pine, coulter pine, knobcone pine, white fir, and incense-cedar with California black oak and manzenita. An estimated 15 mountain lions and 200-250 black bears still wander the range. They are extremely shy and avoid man whenever possible. California mule deer (several thousand. head), bobcat and wild turkeys are occasionally seen. Squirrels and chipmunks abound! Inquiries Contact Ayyappa, 14528 Leibacher St., Norwalk, California 90650, (310) 868-4862 prior to the weekend activity or (909) 867-3499 during the activity. GETTING TO KALI LOKA By Air: Closest airport is Ontario airport, Ontario California. From there you can rent a car. By Land: Approximate travel time from Los Angeles: 2 1/2 hours 1) From Interstate 10 at Redlands ... Take the 30-330 exit (located approximately 5 miles east of the interchange at interstates 10 and 215 near San Bernardino) and follow Highway 30 (which ultimately becomes 330) through Highland to Running Springs (Approximately 20 miles total to Running Springs) Turn off your air conditioner to avoid overheating! 2) At Running Springs (Elevation 6000 feet) ... Go east on highway 18 in the direction of Big Bear (not Lake Arrowhead). STOP AT THE PAY PHONE IN ARROWBEAR and call us at (909) 867-3499 to let us know you are close. This will give us a chance to instruct you on how to open the locked gate. Then you can proceed through Arrowbear to Green Valley Lake cutoff. (Total 2 1/2 miles) 3) At Green Valley Lake cutoff ... Turn left and proceed 2.7 miles to Crab Flats (Dirt) Road (3N16) (Total 2.7 miles) 4) At Crab Flats Road (3N16) ... Turn left and proceed 2.3 miles to Trails End Road (3Nl6Q) (Total 2.3 miles) 5) At Trails End Road QN16Q) ... At 3Nl6Q road turn left and proceed .6 miles to Trails End Gate which spans the main dirt road. (Total .6 miles) 6) Follow the road past a house on the right, past a fire hydrant where the road turns left, up a small hill where you will go through a narrow space between two trees, past a private drive which cuts to the right. You proceed down a small hill as the road turns slowly left until you come to a dirt road intersection with two roads going to the left and one sharply to the right. Make a sharp hair-pin turn to the right and proceed to the first driveway on the right (Total 1/2 mile). Congratulations! You made it! If you, as a prior participant of a chakra puja, are introducing a friend to the circle, duplicate this flyer for them, request them to read it thoroughly, fill out this page and send it in OR ask them to call Ayyappa to have them mailed a copy. Date: Name: Address City/State/Zip Telephone (Optional) To: Friends of Babaji 14528 Leibacher St. Norwalk Ca. 90650 (310) 868-4862 Weekdays (909) 867-3499 Weekends Subject: Kriya Kaula Tantra Yoga Celebration & Chackra Puja Begins: Friday 25 Oct 7 PM Ends: Sunday 27 Oct - 1 PM. Cost: $58 ($48 if check is postmarked by 21 Oct 1996 - no refunds. $1 extra for arriving late or leaving early.) Dear Friends ... (Check Here) Yes! I will attend the tantra sexual spirituality celebration and chackra puja at Kali Loka. Please reserve food and space. (I will bring $58.00. cash to the activity) (Check Here) Yes! I will attend the Tantra sexual spirituality celebration and Chackra Puja at Kali Loka. and am mailing the registration fee with a postmark by 21 October 1996. Please reserve food and space. (Enclose check for $48.00.) (Refund for non-attendance: 1/2) (Check Here) I can't attend these activities but wish to remain on the Friends of Babaji active mailing list. (Ignore this if you have checked this item and returned it within the last year) NEW PARTICIPANTS ONLY: If you have not previously attended a chakra puja, please tell us who introduced you. (Participants are accepted only by introduction - If you have questions, feel free to call Ayyappa.)
etzchaim Registered User (8/19/03 9:53 am) Reply	Re: Lahiri Mahasya, celibacy, and going nuts Username, thanks. I've copied it and saved it elsewhere, just in case. Haven't gone through it all, but at first glance, I'm surprised by the simplicity. I would have thought more mention of connecting the chakras, lifting of energy and rotation of it from one person to another would be a part. Where did the first posting with the technique come from? Etzchaim
username Registered User (8/19/03 2:18 pm) Reply	Re: Lahiri Mahasya, celibacy, and going nuts Bihar School of Yoga (they have a web site) published book written by Swami Satyananda Saraswati Sure Ways to Self Realization- book name this stuff printed above is the only chapter in the book having to do with tantric sex. They also published their kriya lessons in a book that is available for sale. The kriya is different than SRF kriya. Swami Satyananda Saraswati was a student of Sivananda (Divine Life Publishers) and said that Sivananda taught him kriya just before he told him it was time for him to leave the ashram. If I remember correctly, he was taught 187 or 108 different kriya techniques, about 20 or so of them are in the book. The kriyas involve moving energy in certain patterns around the chakras while doing pranayam and in certain hatha yoga postures. I have most of the Bihar School of Yoga books and have found them extremely helpful and informative. The second posting is from a flyer I found in a tantric yoga book in a bookstore which is no longer around. The book was about the sex circle. I didn't buy the book because at the time I didn't believe that this could possibly be true! But now I know it is because I have heard it described in one of Ramakrishna's books - apparently one of the priests ( or someone else associated with the kali temple) at the Kali temple where Ramakrishna was stationed used to go to these circles in the evenings and many in the temple made fun of him for doing so. (This is the Kali temple mentioned in Auto of a Yogi) I spoke to the fellow on the phone listed on the flyer. This is a sincere yoga group. The number is no longer working. The people came from all over the US for this weekend. But I didn't join them for the ceremony. But basically it was actual sexual intercourse between the men and women in the group. You would have intercourse with one and then move around the circle having intercourse with each other member of the opposite sex. (which could include different races, ages, your mother, woman on their period etc) I'm not exactly sure what the purpose of this is, but in India where caste structure is rigid it probably had more of a "shock" effect then it might have in the US. The man told me you had to bring a girl if you were a guy, any woman could come (they could round up some extra guys), rubbers could be used if you requested. Edited by: username at: 8/19/03 2:26 pm
dawnrays Registered User (8/19/03 5:27 pm) Reply	Re: Lahiri Mahasya, celibacy, and going nuts redpurusha, I think sometimes it's a relief to just put sex in the background for a while, particularly if that's a change for you. I think that for most people, once you get past your teens and early twenties at least, the space between unloving or casual sex and no sex decreases to the point where often no sex is preferable. I think anybody who has ever been in a bad relationship or marriage can attest to this fact! Just because a person is legally and morally "available" for sex, doesn't make the idea exciting! Otherwise, I guess there would be no divorce. Don't people go to huge expense, put thier children through all kinds of things and often lose everything in order to get away from thier "sex partners"? Sex is mostly in the mind. If the spiritual/emotional aspect isn't there, it's going to be boring and unfulfilling and an insult (eventually) to the self. If it is there and growing, then there is no reason to worry about it or want it to "fall away" or lose it. It is part of your sadhana (as illustrated above) and this desire for deeper intimacy need never go away IMO. Also, I think perhaps a "little goes a long way" in a deep love relationship and there are other things to enjoy together (sex being only part of it). I think relationships and intimacy are what alot of people really want (yet are afraid of!) and so they complain about a lack of sex or of some problem with sex. Sex is easily had! But again, loveless sex without the emotional and deepening spiritual intimacy goes nowhere and is boring and stale in the end. I honestly think that traumatic and/or hollow sexual experiences are what drives many people to believe that permanent celebacy is the answer. Also, I know that srf does not recommend celebate marriages (though they may sometimes give that impression). Sex only for procreation is practically that. I think this idea is the cause of many failed marriages in srf and I don't believe one should ever "cut off" thier partner. I cannot imagine a deeper insult as to tell another human (whom you at least at one time, loved enough to marry) that their needs and desires are low or beneath you. I think such a thing is wrong and cruel! If your marriage was failing, it would drive it over the brink. I also think that it would accomplish nothing in a happy marriage and certainly would not make you more spiritual. Also, thank you username for that nice post(s). I don't think I could handle the group aspect, but I go along with the general thought process (makes sense to me). dawnrays Edited by: dawnrays at: 8/19/03 8:04 pm

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