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SRF Walrus > Non-SRF Teachings and Ideals > BOOK: Yogananda Returns
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SonofSpirit Registered User (11/24/02 6:16 am) Reply	Re: Where is this going? My dear HolySinner, I am amazed that you do not allow yourself to be a conduit of love. It, like being cynical, is only a path one chooses then practices in order to simply be. Just as you are who you are by your choices and practices, so is everyone. There is neither great mystery nor difficulty in being, for every soul is being something at all times. The difference, however, between you and me is that you choose to practice disbelief, while I and others practice belief. Both practices beget results. Obviously, I prefer my path, for I have practiced your path and therefore, knowing the difference, derive dharma from my path. I look for the greater good in you and me and all, and practice what I think. How else is one to improve but by diligent practice? Concerning your karma, as aspirants, as devotees, as simple people of compassion, it is natural to want to take the pain and suffering from our brothers and sisters. It is natural to want to heal our friends and enemies alike. Some, dear friend, are better at doing so than others. Humbly said, I do that which God allows me to do at this time. Yes, my brother, I will take from you what suffering God allows me to take. Don’t be deaf to your humanity, nor blind to the humanity offered by others, please. We need you. The world needs your powers for good and uplifting prayers, and fulfillment of hope. This world desperately needs all the help it can get. So I pray that I am one small part of the solution, rather than part of the problem. Those who intimately know me know I speak only truth. My time on this planet is much, much too short for me to waste it on negativity, for there is so much to do, so much to accomplish before the level of global awareness is raised. We need each other as much as I truly love you all. SoS.
TheHolySinner Registered User (11/24/02 10:56 am) Reply	SonOf$$@&% If you look for the greater good in me than why are you judging me? You say you have praticed my path. You know my life so well? Are you insane! Why do you ASSume I practice disbelief, are you now claiming to be omniscient too? Rather than healing friends and enemies you might try healing your inflated ego! Or aren't you familiar with the concept that you can't heal anything until you heal yourself first. "Humbly said" My a#&! you are so full of yourself you can't see straight, floating around on your ego cloud! I pity those who actually know and live with you. I doubt they find your all knowing bull#$@& and ego loving any comfort at all. Edited by: TheHolySinner at: 11/24/02 11:15:32 am*
Devotee1970 Registered User (11/24/02 11:36 am) Reply	Re: ??? Maybe the time has come for us all (myself included) to stop being yogis for a minute, have a couple of beers together (I won't tell if you won't), let misunderstandings go bye-bye and let HolySinner's poor Boston Terrier and the rest of the world stop typing for a while. I'm buying the first round if anyone's interested. Come as you are. You're all welcome. C'mon. Peace, brothers. Devotee1970 P.S.-Monastics, if any of you show up, I'll buy you as many rounds as you need. P.P.S.-My dog is channeling Divine Mother (I'm not making a backhanded comment on the subject) who says that if we can't all get along, she'll turn this car around right now. And, She says, "Just wait 'till your Father gets home." P.P.P.S.-As my wife says, "Make love . . . war is optional." I'm reaching . . . but I'm trying. Am I reaching anyone? I know . . . I'm a naughty boy and a half-a** diplomat with a poor sense of humor and an even poorer understanding of everything else, but . . . Bygones? Edited by: Devotee1970 at: 11/24/02 1:05:00 pm
wholetruth Registered User (11/25/02 7:12 am) Reply	Re: Where is this going? I agree with srflongago that there is no likemindedness on this board. The only thing that we all have in common is that our lives were somehow touched or affected by SRF and/or Yogananda and that most of us were at one time "true believers" but some have moved on and taken responsibility for their lives especially in regards to spiritual growth. To my knowledge there is only one person who has ever posted here that personally knew Yogananda and studied under him, and that is "srflongago." He has probably been our best authority on Yogananda, but others make their claims of having experienced him in non-physical ways and feel equally qualified to comment on him. Edited by: wholetruth at: 11/25/02 7:39:56 am
Gitano no divino Registered User (11/25/02 11:14 am) Reply	Re: Where is this going? Those who know, tell it not. Those who tell, know it not. This is a well-known saying and applies in the case of those who post on the Internet that they have "seen" someone who passed from this life a half century ago. Were I to have such an experience, I can't imagine sharing it indiscriminately with people I didn't even know. I might tell my wife, but that would be it. Anyone else hearing me make such a claim would have every good reason to question my mental state, or at least my motives. Promiscuous disclosures of supposed spiritual experiences can be intended to serve but one purpose: impress those gullible enough to believe. I do not believe such claims, and thus they do not form any valid basis for authority or impress me in the slightest. MastersChela is deeply offended by statements made here by me and others. I am not, like srflongago, an accomplished yogi. I wasn't raised in a yogic environment and didn't know PY personally. Therefore, I feel far less constrained to be quite as coolly objective as he is. I know chicanery when I see it, and I see it now running like a thread through everything the SRF organization says and does. Since the organization was established and managed by PY, and since the current leaders were all his disciples, I consider him to share in the responsibility for the current state of affairs. To suggest that one can be critical of SRF while holding PY sacrosanct and above any criticism is simply absurd, in my opinion. Like-mindedness, regimentation, and conformity are curious obsessions of SRF and its minions, as they are with most cults. Absolute, unquestioning obedience to the leader and his organization is held to be the most important trait of the disciple. The reason for this is obvious: SRF has a lot to hide, a lot it doesn't want people to know. It is afraid of critical inquiry, and it attempts to make a virtue out of ignorance and credulity. But if we want to get to the absolute bottom of what is going on at Mt. Washington, everything--including the gooroo--must be put on the table for examination. As far as the purpose of this board is concerned, you should know that several months ago I wrote to the all-seeing Walrus suggesting that my participation here was inappropriate and asking if I should stop posting. In its infinite and inscrutable wisdom, the Walrus disagreed and felt that my posts were valuable contributions to this board. I repeat my offer. If the Walrus wants me to get off the board, I will do so without hesitation. Until that time, I will continue to speak out. I know that there are many here who are in sympathy with what I say, even with how I say it. The bottom line is this: I am persuaded by rational arguments, not by claims of spiritual insight. I attack ideas I consider wrong, even as I expect and welcome attacks on my ideas. But I have no use for and will not be deterred by pretense, humbug, and unctuous condescension. By negative example, SRF has taught me well how to spot and be on guard against such things.
srflongago Registered User (11/25/02 12:22 pm) Reply	Re: Where is this going? Gitano: When people have physically very improbable experiences, or emotionally highly charged mental experiences, they account for them in different ways. Some regard them as miraculous messages from the Divine, others regard them as natural and that Divine explanation as understandable self-delusion. The experiences themselves, whatever their origin, can often have momentous effects on the person or even on society. These effects can be good, or they can be bad. They set unpredictable tremors going in society. Grant than many of them are honestly felt, even though they are the effect of self-delusion and magicism, and therefore may not be deliberate lies. It is a rational point of view to dismiss them as being of no divine origin. One cannot conclude from that that they were consciously thought up lies made to achieve a goal. Some people really believe that whatever desire or have as a goal at any time is justified by divine intervention. They confuse their desires and goals with divine desires and goals. This is not the Yogic way. It is why the authentic Yogi obeys the prescription of the Gita and gives up all DESIRES for the fruits of actions. This is to vanquish such delusions, which are a great distraction from pursuing a true path. Even the adept fall into the trap of desiring the fruits of action occasionally. The ordinary disciple does so often. I think that this is the human condition. That is why I feel that being fully realized is a goal to be strived for, not fully attainable in a lifetime by anyone. Those who believe in the supernatural do not agree with this traditional viewpoint of the Gita.
Devotee1970 Registered User (11/25/02 12:36 pm) Reply	Re: Where is this going? Gitano, Buddy, whoever you and anyone else are and whatever you and anyone else want to say is okay with me. Truly. You certainly don't need permission from the Walrus, the SRF or anyone else to be sincere. Personally, I have nothing against a healthy dose of thoughtful cynacism, though I'd really prefer a Walrus without intensely personal attacks (I'm not trying to pick on anyone or put myself in a different category -- I get cranky too). Some of us may be more out there than others, but we're all in the @#$%& together. But . . . let the board be what it is -- a slice of life. Everyone has different ways of self-expression and healing, and it's not my place to should anyone. Please, though, come have a drink and a laugh with me sometime if you want to . . . at the Walrus Tavern -- the place "where no one knows your name" . . . unless you post it. So . . . reject the SRF if you like (I have too), reject gurus and God if you want (I still like them, even with all of their irony and faults). I hope everyone has found a little love somewhere though -- love is still in everyone's playbook, right? Gitano, I really do wish you and everyone else here peace. I'll say goodbye now, because I don't have any rational arguments, and the closest thing I've had to a spiritual experience lately was changing the toilet seat in our downstairs bathroom -- a little sprucing up before the inlaws get here for Thanksgiving. Devotee1970 Edited by: Devotee1970 at: 11/25/02 6:55:55 pm
Devotee1970 Registered User (11/26/02 7:01 am) Reply	Re: Where am I going? Okay, I think this will be my last Walrus message. I love all the love and caring, but the pain is getting a little much for the little boy hiding beneath my big boy ego. And in any case, I guess I need to spend less time typing and more time trying to live by the ideals I subscribe to. They say leave em’ laughing, so I’ll give it one or two more feeble attempts: . . . if there’s a Divine Mother, does that mean there’s also a Divine Mother-in-law? Hmmm . . . . . . Longago, was that your car I saw the other day with the bumper sticker that read, “Don’t blame me, I voted for Durga.”? (One cool lady.) Peace. I mean it. Devotee1970
srflongago Registered User (11/26/02 8:11 am) Reply	Re: Where am I going? If there really is such a bumper sticker, I would definitely buy one. You may wish to renter Walrus occasionally to help and inform those who are suffering. With compassion SRFLONGAGO
Devotee1970 Registered User (11/26/02 8:31 am) Reply	Re: Where am I going? Thanks. I'll check the Crystal Clarity catalog for such a sticker for you, Longago . GeneAum, I cannot reply to the private message you sent me privately because your private message feature is turned off and you didn't leave an e-mail address. But the answer is that there are no such meetings in reality that I know of in So. Cal. (but I wouldn't know since I don't live there). Maybe you should start the first one . My private message feature will remain enabled for a little while if anyone else wishes to contact me. If not, okay too. Bye again. Edited by: Devotee1970 at: 11/26/02 8:33:39 am
wholetruth Registered User (11/26/02 9:00 am) Reply	Re: Where is this going? Srflongago: "When people have physically very improbable experiences, or emotionally highly charged mental experiences, they account for them in different ways. Some regard them as miraculous messages from the Divine... "Some people really believe that whatever (they) desire or have as a goal at any time is justified by divine intervention. They confuse their desires and goals with divine desires and goals. This is not the Yogic way. It is why the authentic Yogi obeys the prescription of the Gita and gives up all DESIRES for the fruits of actions. This is to vanquish such delusions, which are a great distraction from pursuing a true path." Do you think this would apply to Yogananda and his visions?
redpurusha Registered User (11/26/02 10:59 am) Reply	Re: Where is this going? Gitano no divino, you boast and make claims that Yogananda is a phony on the internet but when some people make a valid arguement for his credibility you accuse them of wanting to "impress the gullible" or some other stupid motives -this is a cheap shot you know it. Who are you kidding? Basically your argument goes, and instead of maybe giving some credit to the strongest proof of God/Yogananda which is direct personal experience of, you make it seem people are "showing off." No one here was trying to impress anyone, especially you (as much as you want to think that and you probably do). Everyone has a right to back up their position. You show no restraint in trying to impress us with your arguments, stay on the board and post all you want, I don't care. Just don't claim the Walrus is just for people who dislike/discredit/dis Yogananda. "The bottom line is this: I am persuaded by rational arguments, not by claims of spiritual insight." "The reason faculty in man, tethered by the cause and effect principle, has no answer..." -Yoganadna (from memory) Edited by: redpurusha at: 11/26/02 11:08:02 am
srflongago Registered User (11/26/02 11:17 am) Reply	Re: Where is this going? This expressed my view of every experience attributed to supernatural causes by anyone. The conviction of the person having the experience and any audience as to the supernatural ORIGINS of the experience I view as unfounded wish fulfillment, a form of self-delsion arising from the desire for consequences of action. Maya in its most deceptive form. The experiences themselves may lead along new paths, toward or not toward enlightenment, dependent on clarity of intellect, tranquillity of soul, strength of compassion. Hatha, Raja and Karma Yoga are disciplines which help one attain these qualities. The Kriya Yoga of Lahiri is a systematic unification of principles and methods for attaining thse qualities. Those who cling to the supernatural, and those who exploit the supernatural, will disagree entirely. I respect their experiences but not their supernatural explanations which lend authority to these experiences as guides for life.
redpurusha Registered User (11/26/02 11:50 am) Reply	Re: Where is this going? srflongago, can you elaborate on this, "Grant than many of them are honestly felt, even though they are the effect of self-delusion and magicism..." You mean to say all the saints and "holy" people who have claimed to commune with God or had glimses of the divine are "self-deluted" are involved in magic tricks? If you saw "signs and wonders" you still would not believe? That's ok if you don't, just curious to see your view, I mean what do you make of Jesus and all the other saints throughout history that have claimed and even died due to such experiences with God? And what if, they didn't ask or have the desire to have such experiences, and did so anyway? Edited by: redpurusha at: 11/26/02 11:53:29 am
chrisparis Registered User (11/26/02 11:56 am) Reply	Re: Where is this going? Dear Redpurusha, No one has said the Walrus is for people who dislike Yogananda. We have said that there is room on Walrus for such people, that there is room here for those who are dissenters from the fawning, adoring herds of minions who crowd other kriya/Yogananda related websites. I think you misread what Gitano said. I don't think she was trying to impress anyone with her ability to argue. In any event, in an argument where party A says "Swami So-and-soananda was a womanizer" and party B says "Oh yeah? Well I had a vision last night where Swami So-and-soananda appeared to me and blessed me and gave me darshan and EVERYTHING!" I would say, just my own opinion now, that party A has the more convincing argument. I assume Gitano would agree with me. I would assume you wouldn't. And it's little differences like that that make the world go 'round. Edited by: chrisparis at: 12/2/02 7:21:08 am
soulcircle Registered User (11/26/02 12:09 pm) Reply	i don't want to miss out on the experience, Red Red, soul here, push some of my buttons.... you ready to learn about this whole range of experience of mine of Dhirananda of Kamala's the Koobatin's do you know that Vishuananda rolled his eyes saying, "I have never seen or heard of anything like this ever in SRF!" when he and Fred (now Boomananda) joined 15 people havin a thoughtful healing conversation in richmond temple in Nov '97 and ten minutes later, said there is only one word for this, "Fellowship!" when i sat with him and Satyananda in the mother center library the next day, to discuss this "fellowship,"....... satya stomped on "fellowship's aorta" are you ready to email me, to talk on the phone i acknowledge that i love and loved within the fellowship for thirty years and to some extent always will i attended the week convocation in summer this year as you push my buttons like you push others know that from my heart...... i heard a monk tell over a thousand that "when Yogananda developed energization exercises," i cringed, realizing he knows with no more certainty that yogananda did in fact do this than i know in certainty that a german did, though the german's book exists red, soul speaking here, i like you, and as our attitudes become conversant and compassionate towards each other, i will celebrate life is friendship and humor, and life is knowing you ..................................Devotee1970 i have seen divine mother in law and she is red, and she is us, and she is a riot, as you are believe me srflongago, your compassion expressed to devotee1970, made my day red, keep making our days, and find time for little ole me!!! circle <heypoet@aol.com>
mangomoy Registered User (11/26/02 2:50 pm) Reply	What "German book" ??? *Quote:* (--this is quoted from a post by soulcircle, above): . . . i know in certainty that a german did, though the german's book exists What are you talking about? I've never heard anything about this before. Edited by: mangomoy at: 11/26/02 2:52:33 pm
srflongago Registered User (11/26/02 4:15 pm) Reply	Re: Where is this going? My view of supernatural explanations is the same for Christian, Jain, Muslim, Hundu, and Buddhist experiences. I am not denigrating the experiences. I am saying that there is no ground for accepting anyone's opinion of the divine origin of their experience or the experience of others. I am also saying that concentration on such experiences is often a road to self-delusion and magicism and simple wish fulfillment. One has to keep a steady spirit and a clear head and take no one's word or description for granted as eternal truth, instead following one's own inner feelings toward a true path. There is no authority other than your inner self.
Ringbearer7 Registered User (11/26/02 6:45 pm) Reply	To SoulCircle: RE EE's "i heard a monk tell over a thousand that "when Yogananda developed energization exercises," i cringed, realizing he knows with no more certainty that yogananda did in fact do this than i know in certainty that a german did, though the german's book exists" Soulcircle, Have you seen this book? Do you know the name of the author? I would be very interested in learning more about this. The only place were I have read this claim was in one of Satyeswarananda's books and I take him with a grain of salt for various reasons. Anyways, I would really appreciate it if you could share anything you know about this. Thanks.
X Insider Registered User (11/26/02 7:18 pm) Reply	Re: To Devotee 1970, Gitano, Chrisparis, STAY!

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