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SRF Walrus > Non-SRF Teachings and Ideals > Gandhi links
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username Registered User (11/7/02 6:50 pm) Reply	Gandhi links www.gandhiinstitute.org www.mkgandhi.org web.mahatma.org.in/index.jsp www.engagedpage.com/gandhi.htm www.gandhiserve.org www.kamat.com/mmgandhi/mmgandhi.htm homepage.oanet.com/jaywhy/gandhi.htm Edited by: username at: 11/9/02 4:22:20 am
Rosemarie7 Registered User (11/8/02 9:00 am) Reply	Re: Gandhi links The link doesn't work. I was seated in my time machine, anticipating new dimensions of travel, my heart sank deep into my chair as I faced the white screen that went nowhere.
username Registered User (11/9/02 4:27 am) Reply	Re: Gandhi links I've looked at all the above links. I can not find one reference that supports SRFs claim that Gandhi was initiated into kriya yoga by Yogananda. Kriya yoga is not mentioned. Yogananda is not mentioned. Can anyone offer any proof that Gandhi did kriya yoga or that he was ever even initiated into kriya yoga. Yogananda did get his picture taken with Gandhi. But I have seen mobsters with pictures of themselves with a US president - so a picture doesn't really mean there was any significant conversation between two people.
dd108 Registered User (11/9/02 3:43 pm) Reply	Re: Kriya initiation Username, Have you ever heard or read anything that indicates conclusively that Yogananda didn't initiate Gandhi? AY was published at least a year before Gandhi's passing. If Gandhi had had anything negative to say about it (in terms of it's untruth), it seems like someone would have recorded or published it.
username Registered User (11/9/02 5:29 pm) Reply	Re: Kriya initiation Yes, I have. I e-mailed Gandhi family members several years ago about this point. They all replied about the same: (I have posted this e-mails on Walrus someplace, but I'm not sure where, or if they are still on the site. It appears that many of my postings have been deleted. 1) Gandhi had no guru. 2) Yogananda and Gandhi talked about diet only 3) Gandhi did a Ram mantra - not kriya, not hong sau (In SRF hong sau, I am he, is the mantra you are to repeat constantly.) And you can not practice two mantras in Hinduism because the whole idea of doing a mantra constantly is to be so accustomed to the mantra that at the time of death, you automatically say the name of god. Apparently, this is much harder than it seems, according to "teachers" that know way more than me. 4) All the family members have asked SRF to immerse Gandhi's ashes into the pacific ocean or other large body of water. In Hinduism, the ashes of the dead are immersed in water because when the ashes are kept on the land, the belief is that the soul remains caught on earth and is never released into the "afterlife" 5) The only place that says that Yogananda initiated Gandhi is in SRF. At least the only place I can find. 6) I remember being surprised that Gandhi practiced kriya yoga, because in Gandhi's Autobiography, which I read in Junior High School, there was NO mention of Yogananda, NO mention of kriya. And it seemed to me that initiation by a guru would be an important event in a person's life and that there ought to be a mention of it, then, in Gandhi's Autobiography. As regards to the publication of the Autobiography of a Yogi, that was done in the U.S. right? Is there any way that Gandhi would have even known he was mentioned in it, let alone know it was even published, or for that matter, even remember who Yogananda was. Does anyone know if Gandhi was sent a copy by SRF? Or if Gandhi agreed that it was ok to publish his picture. (Did SRF get a release from everyone, or anyone, that is pictured or mentioned in the book, prior to publication) Is SRF sending the Gandhi heirs a royalty payment for publishing Gandhi's picture and selling it for a profit/using it as an endorsement of their organization? (Everybody was going to see Gandhi - he was VERY very popular) Edited by: username at: 11/9/02 5:37:02 pm
dd108 Registered User (11/9/02 6:57 pm) Reply	Re: Kriya initiation Points taken. None of them, IMHO however, preclude Master from having initiated Gandhi into Kriya. The way I visualize it, Gandhi probably asked to be initiated, or at the very least agreed. I can't imagine Master going around clobbering people over the head with it. It also isn't as if Master were unknown in India at that time. Gandhi certainly hadn't achieved the fame he later possessed in the 1940's. How many of those relatives could have spent every moment with Master and Gandhi during the several days Master visited? The fact that Gandhi didn't speak of Master as his Guru is irrelevant to whether the initiation took place. Even whether Gandhi practiced Kriya regularly afterward is irrelevant to whether the initiation took place. I don't remember Master claiming that Gandhi practiced it daily. I'm sure most SRF members assume with great fondness that Gandhi practiced Kriya daily, just as most of them do. But just because SRF took such a "churchianity" approach to Kriya after Master's passing, doesn't mean Master did. I cannot visualize Master lying about something so simple and obvious as a Kriya initiation (and in connection with such a well-known public figure). Why bother? And no, the publicity benefit to SRF, and theoretically attendant boost to sales of the AY do not amount to anything like a motive, IMHO. Apparently you have a very different take, not only on this incident, but on the question of whether or not Yogananda was a master. I personally can't see any justification for that view. I know my opinions (and that's what they are, although based on a fair amount of life experience) are highly unlikely to change yours. And this is not, I'll be the first to admit, a topic I've done any specific research on. But what I have studied, at some length, is the rest of Master's life, particularly in America. What you're suggesting doesn't add up to me. Edited by: dd108 at: 11/9/02 7:05:25 pm
Lobo Registered User (11/9/02 8:49 pm) Reply	Re: Kriya initiation A couple of points. First I think that Yoganandaji used his association with Gandhi to boost the importance of his work, the AY, and YSS/SRF. Imagine having the father of modern India, who most knowlegable people consider a saint endorse not only the spiritual practices taught by the guru but his educational ideals as well! I understand Gandhi spoke of Ramakrishna and Vivekananda very highly. I too have read some of Gandhi's writings and don't find Yogananda mentioned. Perhaps Gandhi took kriya as something that was part of his guest, Yogananda's, spiritual teachings, but did not practice the technique. The first edition gives the impression that Gandhi learned the EE's from Yogananda on one occasion during his visit, then took kriya later, at another point during the visit. Gandhi's personal spiritual life was as username says japa. He died with the name of Lord Rama on his lips. But, username, hong-sau isn't taught by SRF, at least not to me, to continuously chant japa using that mantram. Rather it is part of the meditational technique known as hong-sau, consonant with the inflow and outflow of breath. Not japa. Yoganandaji used his association with famous historical figures to further his cause. Everyone from Burbank, Calvin Coolidge, the president of Mexico, Stokowski, Galli-Curci etc. etc. During his lifetime remember yoga wasn't known or appreciated in this country as it is today, not by a longshot. He was attacked with tomatoes and apples thrown on him when he walked the streets of Boston. He was arrested in Miami on trumped-up charges (which I don't know the nature of but found this report on Yogacharya Margaret Hamilton's webpage) because of the color of his skin. So any association by a leading figure of society was bound to be something that he used to further his work. And I think that was part of the purpose he included his visit with Gandhi in his AY.
username Registered User (11/9/02 8:53 pm) Reply	Re: Kriya initiation In India, unlike in the United States, there is NO concept of privacy. So, it is very unlikely that Yogananda was with Gandhi when no one else was there. I can't say I am that up on Gandhi that I can tell you what year his "influence" was felt in India, but apparently he had enough influence and popularity at the time of Yogananda's trip that Yogananda went to see him along with other popular saints/people of that time. I do know that after Ramakrishna's death (which may have happened before Yogananda was born - or at least before he went to the Kali Temple) that Sri Sarada (Ramakrishna's wife) initiated some of the "freedom fighters". She received them late at night because they were at risk of being captured by the British soldiers. This timing may also have been around Yogananda's time. I think the Gandhi issue is a very significant issue. And since the family's view is SO DIFFERENT from SRF's, I think SRF should either offer some proof or STOP saying that Gandhi was practicing kriya. I believe there are a lot of people that are doing kriya/SRF ONLY because they were informed that it was the spiritual practice of Gandhi!
soulcircle Registered User (11/10/02 2:03 am) Reply	username...right on i agree with you
username Registered User (11/10/02 5:36 am) Reply	gandhi Two points. Even though in the lessons hong hau is not taught to be used as japa, the SRF monks in lectures consistently say "hong sau is your mantra" Say it in line at the grocery store, etc. I find it interesting that SRF is busy suing people for copywrite violations and the use of Yogananda's image without their permission, yet the entire Autobiography is full of images of others , and I' bet anyone almost anything (hmm, wait , if I'm in SRF am I allowed to gamble?- oh sure, I remember lots of times the monks telling us to buy lotto tickets so that we can give the winnings to SRF) that SRF is not contributing monies to the people, or heirs, of the images they are using, nor, I bet, have they even asked permission to publish them.
Devotee1970 Registered User (11/10/02 8:03 am) Reply	For What It's Worth 1) What I believe . . . I believe that Master initiated Gandhi and a lot of other people into kriya yoga . . . I believe that Master and Gandhi are beautiful souls . . . I believe that we are all beautiful souls. 2) What I uncertain about . . . I am uncertain whether Gandhi ever practiced kriya yoga. 3) What I don�t believe . . . I don�t believe that Gandhi practiced kriya yoga twice daily every day after doing all of the SRF preliminary exercises and techniques . . . or . . . that Gandhi took a formal oath of loyalty to the SRF . . . or . . . that Gandhi wrote the SRF for permission to increase his kriyas . . . or . . . that the SRF sent Gandhi form letters and signed them �Mother Center� . . . or . . . that I know how to fix it all or any of it. Thanks to you all for your thoughts. Devotee1970
djali123 Registered User (11/10/02 9:07 am) Reply	Re: For What It's Worth "I think the Gandhi issue is a very significant issue." Why? I've never heard of this as an issue on Kriya message boards until you brought it up. "And since the family's view is SO DIFFERENT from SRF's, I think SRF should either offer some proof or STOP saying that Gandhi was practicing kriya." P. Yogananda said in his autobiography that he gave initiation to Gandhi. That's it. No mention of practising, or discipleship. Remember that Mukunda recieved Kriya from both his father and sanskrit tutor without discipleship. "I believe there are a lot of people that are doing kriya/SRF ONLY because they were informed that it was the spiritual practice of Gandhi!" Is that a good or bad thing? Freedom of choice?
username Registered User (11/10/02 10:32 am) Reply	Re: For What It's Worth It is deception, pure and simple deception.
dd108 Registered User (11/10/02 3:34 pm) Reply	Re: For What It's Worth Hogwash. Your assertion is deception, pure and simple. The only "evidence" you can point to is based on statements Gandhi's relatives made years after the fact. Maybe they wanted a fat paycheck from SRF for the free publicity SRF gained and were unhappy not to get it. Maybe they didn't like the way SRF handled Gandhi's ashes (a point I think you made in another post elsewhere as well as above). Maybe they just didn't like SRF, for whatever reason, period. Cripes, I can think of plenty of good reasons they might have had to say what they said--the most likely of which, being that they simply didn't know about it, and that Gandhi never mentioned it. Why did it have to be such an earth-shattering event on Gandhi's personal radar screen, just because Master mentioned it in AY? Why the conspiracy theories about how something that could have happened in a half hour or less, late at night--yes, during a time when Gandhi and Master were alone--(I don't buy the idea that they couldn't have a private converation together) didn't happen? Wholely apart from the fact that you make Master out to be a liar--an inconceivable notion I've never heard the remotest shred of evidence to support--you also make him out to be an idiot. Lets assume for a moment that Yogananda wasn't a master, and was capable of lying to "build the work". Why on earth would he lie about an event that someone alive at the time the lie was made public would be in a position to directly contradict? (And don't imagine that Gandhi's commitment to ahimsa would have prevented him from saying something about it--his broader philosophy included a rigid adherance to truth as you no doubt know from reading his autobiography.) Presumeably also if he weren't a master, Yogananda might not have been able then to predict Gandhi's asassination in the late 1940s. At the time the AY was published, who knew how long Gandhi might live? If a lie of that magnitude were revealed publicly, it could have destroyed SRF and Master's reputation. Ridiculous.
username Registered User (11/10/02 6:02 pm) Reply	Re: For What It's Worth In Hinduism, Initiation is a sacred event in someone's life. Initiation involves taking Yogananda as his Guru and then practicing the kriya. Do you think Gandhi lied to Yogananda and took kriya without ever planning of practicing it? I don't think Gandhi lies. And I don't think Gandhi would have taken initiation unless he was accepting Yogananda as his guru - because this would violate Gandhi's idea of truth. And I see no evidence that Gandhi did kriya. Nor that he thought of Yogananda as his guru. So....... I'm trying to determine what the real scope is... By the way, do you believe Gandhi got first kriya (with the modifications for westerns - or without modifications)? second? third and fourth? how about om technique and hong sau? Did Yogananda give him kechari? If so, do you think Gandhi was able to do it? And I had heard comments at SRF about the Gandhi's family displeasure at SRF, which is why I e-mailed them to begin with. What exactly was Yogananda's prediction of the death of Gandhi? When did he say/publish it? Did he have time, place, reason etc, or just the feeling that something bad was going to happen to Gandhi?
Devotee1970 Registered User (11/10/02 6:36 pm) Reply	Re: For What It's Worth I don't think Gandhi lies. I don't think Master lies. I don't think dd108 lies. I don't think username lies. I do think we live in a complex world and that whatever truth is can't always be understood intellectually. I do try to understand anyway sometimes, but I stop when my head hurts. My head hurts now, so I will say goodbye. I do sincerely love and respect you all and hope you will find what you seek. Devotee1970
dd108 Registered User (11/10/02 7:39 pm) Reply	Re: For What It's Worth Frankly my head hurts too, and I'm not entirely sure why I jumped into this thread with so much vigor--except that I'm tired of hearing every kind of insulting innuendo leveled against Master. There are alot of things SRF has done over the years that I don't understand or agree with. I don't understand, for example, how lying can promote the "cause." SRF has shown the capability to do that. Maybe they think the end justifies the means? But with Master it's altogether different--and by a wide margin. All the direct disciples I've ever met (quite a few over the years), including those who left SRF, held/hold him in the highest regard. I've never even heard of anyone who knew him (with one or two exceptions dating back to the 30s, like Dhirananda who left disgruntled--but that's another story) who didn't have the highest, deepest respect for him. One of the reasons for that, as far as I can tell, is that he respected everyone--even when his disciples might have felt some of them didn't "deserve" it--even when they betrayed him or tried to hurt and destroy him. That is not the sort of person who lies to promote his cause. Username, you assert the Gandhi didn't lie. I believe you're right. But the simple fact that Gandhi never publicly confirmed Yogananda's story in AY, is not the same thing as contradicting it. FWIW, I wasn't saying that Yogananda predicted Gandhi's death. I was only saying that that is the sort of thing I believe he probably did know ahead of time. And the sort of thing he absolutely would not have known if he were capable of lying to promote his mission. As to the issue of whether Gandhi considered Yogananda his guru: You're right--initiation is a very serious thing in India. However, here we have Yogananda himself in the AY taking initiation from his father and his Sanscrit tutor prior to getting it for a third time from Sri Yukteswar. I believe he related to both of them (father and tutor), in different ways, as his 'guru' with a small "g". But why was he still looking for his "Guru" for years afterwards? Because he hadn't found him yet. Because he felt the need to find "the one" through whom he would achieve realization. And it doesn't mean that the earlier initiations weren't true or valid IMHO. We get so caught up in absolutes in the West. If he wasn't this, then he was that. If not this, then the other. I don't believe they look at things so rigidly in India. MHO
username Registered User (11/10/02 8:04 pm) Reply	Re: For What It's Worth FWIW - what does this mean?
dd108 Registered User (11/10/02 8:06 pm) Reply	Re: For What It's Worth FWIW=For What It's Worth
Ringbearer7 Registered User (11/10/02 9:04 pm) Reply	Re: gandhi >Even though in the lessons hong hau is not taught to be >used as japa, the SRF monks in lectures consistently >say "hong sau is your mantra" Say it in line at the grocery >store, etc. Can you recall exactly which monk has said this? I have never once heard a SRF monastic say this. If this is said "consistently" during lectures then I think I would have recalled hearing this at least once...maybe I am misunderstanding you?
SonofSpirit Registered User (11/10/02 9:12 pm) Reply	Re: For What It's Worth How many times must a true saint, a true prophet, a true yogi, a true swami, a true master, a true avantar, a true paramahansa prove himself before the nonbelievers doubt no more? I ask you, how many times? The fakers lie. The fakers are hucksters. The fakers are hypocrites. This ilk cannnot heal the sick. This brand of human debrie cannot sustain pure inspiration in others. The perpetrater of spiritual treachery cannot raise the dead. A husk of humanity cannot produce such scriptural works in such quality and quantity as did Sri Paramahansa Yoganandaji. Again, ye doubters, how many times? Guruji lived now. His life is very well documented. His voluminous achievements have been witnessed and recorded by firsthand witnesses who are still alive to verify and speak of them. How many times must one prove himself before he must prove himself no more? How many times must a truly pure expression of God such as Sri Paramahansa Yoganandaji demonstrate in private and full view his genuine relationship with our Lord God before his very disciples believe in him? You false believers, know that great personages display only a tenth of who they are and what they know. Neither you nor SRF nor any of us will fully know the degree, the proportions, the grandure of Yoganandaji's true and complete power. He was incorruptable. How many times must he resign his earthly form for us to witness it decayeth not? And you wonder! How dare you! SoS Edited by: SonofSpirit at: 11/11/02 6:11:22 am

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