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Box Score Jones Registered User (10/30/03 2:38 pm) Reply	Mejda Won't Eat I've been reading this book by PY's brother about their childhoods, and it says that young Mejda (later PY) refused to eat (or something like that) until his father agreed to take them to see some touring wrestlers. The writer seemed proud of that, but it struck me a kinda childish. What do you folks think about this? BTW, what time zone is the board in?
srfwalrus ezOP (10/30/03 9:02 pm) Reply	Re: Mejda Won't Eat It was childish, but then Master was a child at the time.
bsjones Registered User (10/31/03 2:06 pm) Reply ezSupporter	Re: Mejda Won't Eat Yes, so do you think he grew out of this sort of thing? (please note name change)
KS Registered User (10/31/03 8:58 pm) Reply	Re: Mejda Won't Eat Yes
bsjones Registered User (11/3/03 9:45 am) Reply ezSupporter	Re: Mejda Won't Eat Really KS? How did that happen? Do you think he lost all his human foillbles? Even Yukteswar was kinda nutty at times according to PY. I don't think that these things negate their divine aspects, but I am curious to hear more from you guys.
ugizralrite Registered User (11/3/03 8:40 pm) Reply	Re: Mejda Won't Eat Ultimate reality does not have a human face, unless you include the human soul. This soul which is immutable dwells as witness to the human scene, and this very same soul is at home in the ocean depths and in the far reaches of space, where obviously the human body would perish. So we all, gurus included, carry the immutable soul, the divine, at our core. Kriya yoga enables us to discriminate between the two, to live in the world of the soul and the human world at the same time. This is described as nirbikalpa samadhi. It is a state of being that trancends ordinary human passion because the heart and mind are full and less prone to misdirected need. This does not preclude human pleasure, rather it puts human pleasure into a divine perspective, into nonattachment. I would guess that this is the attitude of a guru who ostensibly appears very human at times.
bsjones Registered User (11/4/03 10:37 am) Reply ezSupporter	Re: Mejda Won't Eat So, ugizalrite, you say that even a guru is still human and enjoys pleasure, but is NOT NEEDY for it since he/she is full of pleasure of the divine. So, for example, SY was attracted to that narcissistic student in a human way, but had enough non-attachment to do the right thing, and eventually have him kicked out of the ashram. Did I follow you correctly?
ugizralrite Registered User (11/4/03 2:25 pm) Reply	Re: Mejda Won't Eat Well, your example wouldn't likely have been pleasurable, but as Yogananda pointed out in "When Thy Song Flows Through Me", pleasure and pain alike are entirely transformed when attributed to a divine source and seen from that perspective.
Box Score Jones Registered User (11/4/03 2:32 pm) Reply	Re: Mejda Won't Eat Thanks u, this is helpful even though I don't understand what you said about pleasure/pain being transformed. I was thinking it'd be pleasureable for SY to keep the guy around, since he had an affinity for him. ---bsjones Edited by: Box Score Jones at: 11/4/03 2:34 pm
ugizralrite Registered User (11/4/03 3:23 pm) Reply	Re: Mejda Won't Eat Pleasure is fleeting, as is pain. Back and forth one becomes the other, all as in a dream, neither can be depended on, whereas the divine is constant in its fulfillment. Much spiritual literature attests to that view. We have to see that for ourselves to understand. It can't be adequately explained. Edit: To be fair, it seems to me that the reason it is hard to explain is because understanding is a matter of subtle discernment that is ongoing through the rest of ones life. Probably that is why the rhythm of breathing is often closely associated with spiritual understanding. You know, continuous and natural. Hope that helps a little. I don't think any one person or source can fill in the answers, so the good news is that the entire creation is there to teach you and that is going to take time and attention. People have a tremendous capacity to match the task if fortunate enough to apply themselves. Edited by: ugizralrite at: 11/4/03 8:54 pm
Box Score Jones Registered User (11/5/03 9:49 am) Reply	Re: Mejda Won't Eat Sure, I agree. Words are inadequate. Still, it helps to put concepts like this into words. After all, our intellects are part of our wholeness also. And you have a gift for describing how we can relate to spirit even though we find ourselves on this earth plane. Thanks again u.
bsjones Registered User (11/5/03 10:06 am) Reply ezSupporter	Re: Mejda Won't Eat So, here is a follow-up question. Do you see n.samadhi as a once-saved-always-saved event or do you think it evolves over time, so mere mortals like myself might have a taste of it now and then --- and even masters like PY might backslide on occassion? Edited by: bsjones at: 11/5/03 2:34 pm
ugizralrite Registered User (11/5/03 1:58 pm) Reply	Re: Mejda Won't Eat I always liked the idea that the path is the goal. Zen Buddhist Dogen puts it this way, "zazen is satori". From day one when you start to meditate you have entered into seeing what is natural everywhere. Once you begin, you can't go back to the old way of seeing things, so yes, "once saved always saved" would seem to follow from that view. Only a handful of people worry about these issues. The rest of creation is quite content in their individual niche. Their samadhi is their chosen environment, whereas the spiritual seeker sets a particular standard and chooses to exist in a questing environment. Earthworm samadhi consists of just burrowing and digesting, and the contentment is a beautiful thing. It extends everywhere because it is the Self in the Self, or the Lord in the Lord, however you wish to term it. Yogananda tells of a yogi who became absorbed in a squirrel's (is it?) consciousness, and had to be coaxed out of it because of the sweetness he found in that existence. My hope is that the new kriya teaching will have less of this Master fixation, because give the poor guys a break. To hinge it all on individual personalities really limits teacher and student. Poor old Ramana Maharshi had to spend decades sitting on a podium for pilgrims who were so fixated on God in a single man. I hope others will chime in here and give their views and replies because I am feeling these days that the teaching is everywhere around us and in our experiences to be shared.
needthestar Registered User (11/5/03 2:38 pm) Reply	Re: Mejda Won't Eat Ugizralite, What you just posted struck a deep chord with me. Thank you. This a struggle within myself: "My hope is that the new kriya teaching will have less of this Master fixation, because give the poor guys a break. To hinge it all on individual personalities really limits teacher and student." I would consider my guru P.Y....but isn't Kriya the guru? Such as he told the young man that asked for his initiation on the "two penniless boys" chapter in A.O.Y.? I've been hung up, hung out, strung up and strung out on his personality. I was in love and then despair and have come to realize that he wants me to back off and get things in perspective...which is to meditate on GOD, GOD, GOD. I suspect that the things I read which sent me in such turmoil (based on P.Y.'s "personality) were set before me for this very reason....to sheer me from the personality worshiping I was partaking in. So now instead of worshiping P.Y. in the "Church of Yogananda", I try to glean from his teachings as divine instructions rather than cheers from a personal cheerleader. The words he used to teach his disciples can be applied to my own life...but it must end there or I begin to loose sight as to why I turned to him in the first place. Does this make sense? I'm sure if I had been with him in the flesh he would have told me to back off as he did direct disciples that got to close to his personality...in fact I know he would...but now I think I'm beginning to get my finger on it, so to speak. Very good post...thanks so much for sharing.
soulcircle Registered User (11/5/03 3:52 pm) Reply	the only PY i ever knew is the heart inside you need the star and all near and far and thank you so much for sharing ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ need the star the only PY i ever knew is the heart inside you ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ touching your sharing feet, need the star knowing my "guru," my friend to be exact, is you, never far soul circle
needthestar Registered User (11/5/03 4:33 pm) Reply	Re: the only PY i ever knew is the heart inside you I love you SoulCircle. Such beautiful words....I wish I could speak so well....but why should I when you do it so masterfully? What's yours is mine....what's mine is yours. Divine Peace Holy of Holies Sweetness of the Fig Clearest of Minds Flame of the Heart Sleep from Thine eye
etzchaim Registered User (11/6/03 8:21 am) Reply	Re: the only PY i ever knew is the heart inside you Great posts. ugiz, star, you're doing alright, great insights. Edited by: etzchaim at: 11/6/03 8:21 am
bsjones Registered User (11/7/03 1:58 pm) Reply ezSupporter	Re: A Great Wave on the Ocean Yes, this is all very helpful. Maybe this is what PY meant when he said even an enlightened master does NOT become God. He or she just comes to experience himself more completely as a wave on the ocean of God, without separation. Perhaps some of the confusion comes from wanting PY to be God. Humans can't do that. But I think PY realized his oneness with Spirit to an incredible degree. And I'm glad he lived, came to America, told his story, and touched my life.
stermejo Registered User (11/7/03 7:22 pm) Reply	Re: ??? BSJ: Yes, so do you think he grew out of this sort of thing? KS: Yes. SJ: No, he remained a very wilful individual throughout his entire life. He never hid that fact but it can be pointed out that as he matured his will became directed into more constructive avenues.

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