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Raja Begum
Unregistered User
(12/1/01 11:53 pm)
Reply 		School for Sadomashochists
You and I have all read the stories -- over and over again. Those urban legends where Master would tell a disciple to plant a tree then have him dig it up only to plant it somewhere else.. and repeat process. We've heard about how he put a dunce cap on Faye Wright's head (telling isn't it?), he would scold direct disciples for no apparent reason, forcing many of them to cry for hours on the bluffs of Encinitas.......

What I want to know is....If the Matas were handed the perfect training from Master, if they got the tough stuff and became so much better for it, why are they such nasty people?

"Well it gave them extraordinary willpower" you say. Great! My heart is warmed. Go wake up Nietzsche and confide.

These poor girls! Steal them in their youth, deprive them of human touch forever, rough 'em up and ridicule them a bit with avatarian gusto.... and out the other end of the "discipline" tube you get a bunch of sadists ready made to make yours and my life miserable. Anybody getting tired of this?

And you and I keep trying to find the logic in it -- like a bunch of conspiracy theorists still dogged to resolve the Kennedy assasination.

And I'm not saying anything is wrong with our guru. It's always the disciple's fault. Right?

Take Mrinalini for example. She endlessly brags about Master's harsh training. You see, what I really think is -- underneath ten or twenty layers of denial -- what you've got is an angry little girl. If his discipline was so perfect for her, or if she was so perfect in following his discipline, then why did she come out so strange?

Edited by: srfwalrus at: 12/16/01 10:23:31 am
XInsider
Unregistered User
(12/2/01 7:50 am)
Reply 		In reply
I have been thinking along these denial/anger/pass-it- down lines for awhile. No conclusions -- no way to know for sure, is there? And no way to figure into the mix the nature of divine love they were receiving at the same time as the discipline.

Spi
Unregistered User
(12/2/01 7:53 am)
Reply 		Selective
Remember that they tell us the stories of training that they want us to hear to make a point. Why would they tell us these stories and not too many of the others. Considering they were with Master for 20+ years in some cases, there are very few of "keep replanting the tree" kinds of stories.

I suspect they emphasize that kind of training for us for a reason. You Walrus people can probably guess what the reason is.

Their point for those stories is another weird interpretation of Master’s ideals which I choose to reject.

Rigiditananda
Unregistered User
(12/3/01 2:23 am)
Reply 		the true Master
Right on Spi. There is scientific evidence that the mind remembers negative experiences much easier than pleasant ones. The Matas, are always telling us about those few occasions in which Master "disciplined" them. However, those countless, normal days were Master was warm and considerate may not be that clear already in their memories. Last convocation, UMA Mata tried hard to give us the other side of Master -- instead of the typical disciplinarian side. I applaud her effort. However, she made a mistake, and the end of the talk she thought she still had an extra half an hour, to fill out talking about Master. She run out of points in her outline so she was forced to improvise. And of course, her memory of negative experiences took over again and the final 30 minutes were about the same heartless, disciplinarian Master. It was painful for me to see how she defeated her own goal at the end of the talk. I was sorry for her and for the devotees listening there. She reinforced once more this image of a disciplinarian, insensitive Guru. So, I hope the next year SRF will use the convocation time better. Hopefully they will talk only -- for the first time in SRF history-- about the warm, loving Master we all want to learn about. But to do that, they will also have to stop bragging about their "fabulous" ability to endure Master's heartless discipline.

Musicman
Unregistered User
(12/3/01 2:39 pm)
Reply 		Warm and loving
I suspect that before very long we'll have all the evidence we ever wanted, and more, of just how "warm and loving" Yogananda really was. The abuse and exploitation of people during his regime is only now becoming really clear. Only in this way can we imagine that the SRF leadership would see no inherent contradiction between the way they do things and the way he did them. SRF stands for Still Really Fullofit.

KS
Unregistered User
(12/3/01 3:18 pm)
Reply 		Who do you blame?
Br. Terry (or whom ever monitors this board for SRF),
Look at the above message. Someone thinks that the poor behavior of SRF toward the monastics, members and employees reflects on Master. Well what do you know. It makes people wonder about Master. This is a very serious problem.

My question to you is the following:

Do you blame this board for giving people an opportunity to discuss these things? They may misinterpret some of them, and misunderstand, etc…

Or do you blame the culture of SRF that allows the poor behavior discussed here?

Think seriously now. I know the answer but I want to see if you can come to the same conclusion. I personally think this is a real shame. I hope whom ever it is that monitors this board will pass this question around. The above question is not isolated to the one individual. Many many people are coming in contact with SRF and leaving the teachings. Think about that. Is it the messenger or the actions they are witnessing?

Maybe you think if these problems are not discussed the problems will go away? Maybe these problems are not real but imagined? Maybe they are God's will?

parvati
Unregistered User
(12/3/01 10:38 pm)
Reply 		Master's love
It's odd, but after many years of hearing about Master from Kriyananda I have a very different understanding of him. He was full of divine love, which is of course both sweet and powerful - perhaps coming across as stern sometimes. And also he had great joy! And a love for life. That is evident in the AY and Whispers. But to pass only the stern aspect on to those who come to you to learn about him is irresponsible. What I have learned of him from Kriyananda checks out with what I feel from his writings and in meditation.

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