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Reporter
Unregistered User
(10/13/01 6:55 am)
Reply 		Ma Quote from XInsider
pulled from a message from XInsider:”Sane attitude to monastic departure” post 10/12/01

Quote:
During a nuns' Sunday service, one of Ma's close attendants quoted Ma as recently saying: "When will Divine Mother send the ones who can take it?!" This didn't cheer people up too much, as you can imagine.

Can take it? What could this mean? I used to hear that the life style was really hard and “only the strong make it” and baloney like that. The lifestyle for everyone is hard. Earth is not a vacation, nor is it intended to be. But the bad ladies behavior makes the insider life a misery. That statement is so bizzar and really does show the frame of mind Ma has. What a disappointment.

full message thread
pub78.ezboard.com/fsrfwal...ID=9.topic

Shadowman
Unregistered User
(10/13/01 11:45 am)
Reply 		Pieces of the Puzzle
Reporter says:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
that statement is so bizzar and really does show the frame of mind Ma has. What a disappointment.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

We could use more windows into their behavior like this rather than just complaints. I do appreciate that some need to vent. But a few of us are itching to start putting the picture together and are finding the presence concrete details few and far between.

Spi
Unregistered User
(10/13/01 6:36 pm)
Reply 		Specifics
Giving specific stories often reveals who the individual might be. Most are still afraid of Mother Center and therefore would rather remain annonymous. I think the people usually posting here don't need proof and are not really exchanging messages here to "prove" to anyone of the behavior. I understand your point though. Just hearing people complain probably sounds disappointing. But those insiders don't need the proof.

Those who have not seen it themselves would never believe it anyway. An annonymouse message here is not going to convice anyone that these "saints" would do any of these things.

Shadowman
Unregistered User
(10/14/01 1:15 am)
Reply 		I see it differently
#1
You Say:
"Giving specific stories often reveals who the individual might be. Most are still afraid of Mother Center and therefore would rather remain annonymous."

I can appreciate that. But why are so many afraid? Is there a viable threat your security, or are most of you amplifying the fear as you've been taught to do?


#2
You Say:
" I think the people usually posting here don't need proof and are not really exchanging messages here to "prove" to anyone of the behavior. I understand your point though. Just hearing people complain probably sounds disappointing. But those insiders don't need the proof."

No jury looking for proof. The validity of your experiences are not under question. And I hope you understand that "those insiders" are not the only one trying to figure out what their experience in SRF means to them. Anyone who has taken his or her involvement with SRF seriously has subjected him or herelf to the inluences stemming from the "inside." We all need each other right now not merely as shoulders for crying on but also for building a collective body of insight.


#3
You Say:
Those who have not seen it themselves would never believe it anyway. An annonymouse message here is not going to convice anyone that these "saints" would do any of these things.

Look. None of us were born yesterday. So get off that rap pronto. I mean, its not as if you lived like an agent in the X-Files Those of us who attend this message board are not your average run-of-the-mill devotee anyhow. And those who are wouldn't visit this site because it doesn't have Mother Center approval.

Pieces !! Keep 'em coming !!!

Raja Begum
Unregistered User
(10/14/01 6:37 pm)
Reply 		Spiritual Fascism: Getting to the center of the problem
"My Noncooperation is with methods and systems, never with men."
---- Gandhi

Like Shadowman, I'm itching to get to the central nervous system of the problem. I don't think we'll go far if we content ourselves with nebulous criticisms and flatulant bursts of name calling ("bad ladies"). If we can move our dialogue past collective tantrumming towards more objective analysis, we might discover a valuable set of principles which could help us for life. Realistananda --- who is much more of a moderate than I am -- had the idea when he brought to our attention that all organizations are flawed. One of my first postings entitled "Sleepers Awake" urged us to take responsiblity for the enslavement of our intellects. Life demands discretion on all levels. Hence, what we learn here, we can apply everywhere.

Personally, I think SRF is based on a fascist system. I mean this in the purest sense of the word. Read the following definition from a political glossary:

"Fascist: One who advocates a very strong form of statism*, a corporatist economy, modernization, regimentation, and strong central leadership. Citizens' purpose is to serve the state. Often includes appeals to a "glorious" past or pseudo-religious ideal, thus combining several facets of liberalism, conservatism and socialism into an organic vision of society."

(* Statist: Anyone who advocates a strong central government, especially with regard to finding solutions for societal problems. Can apply to both right and left. )

Analysis:

CORPORATIST -- Read my"Two Clashing Models...and a third"
pub78.ezboard.com/fsrfwal...D=58.topic

MODERNIZATION -- Always building. expanding, touring, promoting, and using technology to further its goals. Wants to keep up with the Joneses.

REGIMENTATION -- Masters of micromanagement. A policy for everything. Makes Sparta look like a Club Med Resort.

Strong Central Leadership -- (no comment necessary)

CITIZEN'S PURPOSE IS TO SERVE THE STATE -- What does SRF want? A lot of able and willing bodies who will work for low pay or no pay and who have the right attitude -- basically unquestioning loyalty and devotion to Mother Center.

APPEALS TO A "GLORIOUS PAST" --- Matas still living in the heydays of the 1940's and '50's. "You can only imagine what is was like" underscores everything they say. Keeping things quaint and provincial, the way they were in Master's time..."Those were the days"

PSEUDO-RELIGIOUS IDEAL --- Not us. SRF is pure.

COMBINING SEVERAL FACETS INTO AN ORGANIC VISION OF SOCIETY -- "In truth, SRF is a disorienting hodgepodge of models sorely in need of integration. Until we lay these discrepancies on the forge, what can SRF ultimately be but a place for winners and losers?" But they THINK everything is hunky dory in this Church of All Religions. So-- by golly -- it is.




KS
Unregistered User
(10/14/01 8:36 pm)
Reply 		flatulent bursts
The “bad ladies” for me is just a way of showing them the respect they deserve. They have fostered the idea that they are saints, and I happen to think they aren’t. So when I first saw it used I saw it as a good label that was not respectful but also not obscene. That is the reason for it. Not just name calling. Well, OK, maybe it is.

Do you guys want a separate thread that just deals with trying to get at the core issues? We can suggest it to SRFWalrus and he may add one. Or would you just like more specifics on the behavior. People seem reluctant to do that for a variety of reasons. Raja and Shadowman, how would you like to proceed? This seems like everyone's board. Let us suggest something.

Raja Begum
Unregistered User
(10/28/01 2:54 am)
Reply 		Forward to Daya Mata
"I'm not in this world to live up to your expectations and you're not in this world to live up to mine."

~ Bruce Lee ~

Crog
Unregistered User
(11/7/01 9:36 pm)
Reply 		Fascist Analysis
REGIMENTATION: This is certainly true. There are rules for everything. Look at the rules the monks have just for using a car. They even have approved routes for where they can and can’t drive. The atmosphere is choking with rules.

CITIZEN'S PURPOSE IS TO SERVE THE STATE: Bingo. Right on here. In fact, if you show any signs of disagreeing with the “state” you are in serious trouble. Look at the guys fired last spring for disagreeing with management over some silly things. Monastics are sent out to pasture, members black-balled. Of course it is for the good of the “state” and to keep the “state’s” ideals pure and protected.

APPEALS TO A "GLORIOUS PAST": Lot’s of things refer to the past for their sense of importance and even their authority. A “direct disciple” says this or that, or is running the organization so we should have faith in their leadership. The phrase “direct disciple” is a reference to the past glory of SRF. The assumption is that someone who was around and had seen Master is more qualified to tell others what to do. People like Walters are an exception as was Dr. Lewis and Durga Mata.

PostMonk
Unregistered User
(11/9/01 1:48 am)
Reply 		Examples
Shadowman,
You asked for specific examples of disappointing behavior.

Monks under suspicion have had their personal mail opened without their approval. A federal offence.

Monks of personal means are told their money is an evil distraction and then are asked to donate to special projects by Monks Personnel.

Anyone who has worked around Ananda Mata knows she is extremely abusive. She regularly shouts at sister Roma and others.

Ananda Mata is such a control freak and thinks so little of the monastics that for years she would not allow fax machines in SRF offices. People had to send faxes to her office to be faxed and they had to justify it. Such loving trust of people who have given up everything to serve SRF. Finally, not having ready access to faxes became such an embarrassment that she was forced to relent.

Monastics and employees are not given business cards because Ananda Mata thinks someone will somehow use them to charge things to SRF. Business cards mind you!

Years ago someone "in the know" figured out that the State of California spends more money feeding inmates than SRF did feeding the monastics.

Publications Center monks were required to respond to alarms at the Publications Center at anytime of day or night. The Pub Center is in a highly dangerous area. The monks who had to drive down there at 2 and 3 am made a request for a cell phone that would only be used during a response and in case they came into personal danger. The response was NO! So the monks continued to drive down there during alarms, unarmed and unable to communicate whilst the Mata's slept comfortably in their Sierra Madre estate. Not to worry, once a year, at Christmas, they came out to tell us how much they loved us --- and by the way, what's your name?

For years there was a bathroom in the Monks' office, where men employees worked, that was marked "Monastics Only". At the Publications Center there was also a bathroom that was set aside for monks. In fact, a senior monk once reprimanded a key employee for using that bathroom. I suspect it has changed now because there are no monks left at the Publications Center. Maybe that bathroom has been set aside as a shrine?

Monks Personnel will block any open homosexuals from serving in key temple roles.

Departing monks have had special codes turned on in their record that will exclude them from receiving any SRF mailings. These codes are usually reserved for people with emotional problems that SRF wants to break off contact with. Now that's unconditional love!

I spent well over a decade in the Ashram and not once, not once received a call or personal note from any Mata, forget Daya Mata. The great love and concern they have is pure, unmitigated Bulls**t. Wait, I did receive a note from Ma once. It said, "Yes, you can go visit your family. They're paying for the trip, right? God loves you."

SRF indoctrinates the monastics that they are the "true" family. But if you take a trip to see your family, SRF won't even give you a ride to the airport because "its a personal trip". Someone raised hell about this one and they said, "OK, we'll be generous and either give you a ride to or from the airport but not both." --- I am not making this stuff up!

There is a stark difference between monastic haves and have-nots. The haves get selected for tours and visit other cities and countries. A few visit Europe at least once a year and bring back pictures of all the beautiful places they have been and wonderful things they have eaten. They have easy access to vehicles and come and go as they please. Members give them money and gifts. The have use of special, comfortable retreats reserved only for their use. They are given the best rooms. They can do and say whatever they want because Ma knows their name. The have-nots go to work, go to their room and do it all over again the next day for year after year after tortuous year. Meanwhile they have to listen to the haves preach about "living the spiritual life".

Monastics survive on $40 per month for all their personal needs (except the Haves as noted above). When they asked Ma to raise the allowance she said no. After all, "we survived on $40 a month when Master was here (in 195x). So, why can't they do it know." Duuuuuh? It reminds me of Marie Antoinette telling the peons to eat cake.

I have heard Miss Finch talk about how SRF cannot pay decent wages because "SRF is a non-profit" and in the same breath justify raising members' rents to the highest extent possible by law because "we have to use business principles in Master's work".

Monastics are encouraged to open their hearts to counselors who then blab the news to whomever they want and will use the information against the individual for the rest of that person's life. When lay members call for counseling their remarks are also forwarded to Membership Services to be noted in the member's file.

There is much more.

KS
Unregistered User
(11/9/01 7:33 am)
Reply 		To Postmonk
These are important examples. I am going to copy them and post them to start a different thread so people can find them.

Shadowman
Unregistered User
(11/9/01 11:42 am)
Reply 		To PostMonk
Awesome PostMonk!!! I appreciate you taking time to post these examples. Please everyone, let's get on the same trend. A detailed picture is worth a thousand subjective words, y'know.

Enlightened
Unregistered User
(11/9/01 1:26 pm)
Reply 		Posts about specific disfunctional stuff
Maybe someone would want to sift through other parts of the site and gather all this stuff together. There is stuff like this scattered all over at this point.

Musicman
Unregistered User
(11/9/01 1:45 pm)
Reply 		Heart of Darkness
I keeping thinking of Joseph Conrad's novel Heart of Darkness. Is there no end, no bottom to the perfidy, the callous, self-serving hypocrisy? PostMonk has blown the defenders of SRF right straight out of the f-----g water! Bravo to him, to Raja, and all the others here who insist on tellin' it like it is. The truth sets us free, alright, and it gives us hope. But it can also be depressing. Even after 25 years as a kriyaban, I can still be amazed. As one departing nun paraphrased Master: "When I am gone, only rules can take my place. Be so drunk night and day with the rules of God that you will know nothing but rules, and give those rules to all." I can't imagine being able to function in such a hellishly oppressive environment. Of course, the good news is that now I can go on a spending spree, because I can use my BUSINESS CARD to make purchases and bill them to my employer! Thanks, Ananda Mata, for that bit of financial wizardry! SRF über alles.

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