Is an "Ananda Walrus" needed too?

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GregsBrother Registered User (12/28/02 7:01 pm) Reply	Is an "Ananda Walrus" needed too? First of all, let me say that I have respect for all devotees of Yogananda. And I am displeased with what I see as mismanagement, by SRF, of Yogananda's written works, and his overall organization. And I dont like how so many Faye Wright books were produced while Yogananda's important, essentially finished works, remained unpublished. I am distressed/fascinated by the quality of "Divine Guidance and infallible-ness" attributed by some devotees to direct disciples of Yogananda. I find this blind worship to be what Sri Yukteswar was talking about when he warned about not losing our "eyes of reason" ( you all know the quote). OK, so you can see I am not an SRF apologist. I just find it odd that some Ananda people who post here are happy to see the faults with SRF (I see them too, remember), but they cant see that so many of the same same problems exist in Ananda too. I think Donald Walters is a lot like Faye Wright, in the way he uses his direct discipleship to create a postion of importance for himself. Anyway, I wont go on and on about Walters. His own words under oath speak for themselves. If you haven't read his deposition, then you dont know. I do believe a person can change. I dont condemn Walters as evil for his sexual indiscretions. But I do think he did abuse his position of power. And I know from some Ananda people that he has emphasized that people need to be in tune with him to get to Yogananda. I see some Ananda people as making the same mistake as some SRF people: They think the leader of their organization has been divinely ordained to do whatever they are doing. Its the old "power corrupts" thing. I wont throw the baby (God) out with the bathwater (flawed organizations). But I certainly wont go from over-trusting SRF, to over trusting Ananda/Donald Walters, as some here have done. It wasnt all rainbows, lollipops, and sunshine, when Yogananda was around. He wasnt perfect, and nobody around him was/is either.But it's fun to imagine it was that way Perhaps we all sort of wish that we could encounter a guru in the body, and have some of those cool experiences like in the Autobiography, right? So we pretend Faye Wright is "guided" by Yogananda, or that Donald Walters is, so we can flock to them and it will be all "magical" and maybe they will slap us on the forehead and give us a samadhi, so we dont have to do the work ourselves. I guess I am just cautioning that it is a mistake to go from blind devotion to blind devotion.
Lobo Registered User (12/29/02 6:36 pm) Reply	Re: Is an "Ananda Walrus" needed too? Have you seen Anandainfo website? It covers this topic in spades, although without any balance and in the harshest light possible without even the faintest semblence of fairness. Also I don't think that the Yogananda's devotee's at Ananda consider K to be their guru. They see him rather as a direct disciple who lived, worked, and associated closely with their guru Yogananda; which gives him a certain heft and power that we third and fourth generationer's can't hope to come close too. Yes they do venerate K, like SRF'ers venerate D or the other "directs," but they don't consider him to be their guru anymore than (no matter how hard she and the organization tries) those SRF'ers with a sense of history consider D theirs. From the Rajarsi Janakananda, A Great Western Yogi A letter from PY dated June 17th 1936 to Rajasi, ".... I am in tune with the Masters; the Masters are in tune with God; and you being in tune with me, are in tune with the Masters and God. This is the way it works....'" This, I think, somewhat approximates the relationship that those Ananda's and SRF'ers believe that they have in their veneration of K and D. However it could also be argued that maybe neither of these two luminaries don't quite reach the level of being, "in tune with Masters." That's a different argument which has been debated back and forth on this and other sites for years, and therefore one that I feel has been put to bed with people choosing sides long ago.
MastersChela Registered User (12/29/02 9:51 pm) Reply	RE: GregsBrother This posting by GregsBrother sounds much to me like many others I've read here at Walrus. This is once again a rehashing of old information, smearing the name of a great devotee of our Guru. Perhaps I'll be written off as a "kriananda-phile" and ignored (perhaps this has aleady occurred). But in this, I am certain: In my personal experience with Kriyananda, I have found him to be a man who cares deeply for the work of his Guru and for the concerns of his fellow disciples. I have waded through the deposition you speak of, and it tells me little more than the fact that the SRF hired lawyer was "out for blood" and did all he could to get Mr. Walters to confess to numerous sexual crimes that he did not committ. Yes, Swamiji has violated his Sanyasi vows in his lifetime. He has never claimed to be perfect, or "God-Realized" as SRF contiuously reminds us that Daya is. I think that we must use Jesus' words here "He who has never sinned, let him throw the first stone." There is much accusing and gossip-mongering among the posters of this website. I am inclined to listen to those who have come out of the SRF monasteries who talk of the painful situation there. I have yet, however, to see a poster on this forum talk of the terrible life they faced at Ananda Village or one of the Ananda colonies (one of which I am a close neighbor and frequent visitor). If someone can tell me that they experienced some sexual, physical, spiritual, or mental abuse at the hands of Swami Kriyananda or another Ananda minister, I would be willing to listen. Don't tell me to go to anandaawarenss or any of the other anti-ananda sites. I've seen them, and they haven't convinced me that the man (and the other people) I've met aren't as they seem; caring, concerned for my personal spiritual development, and sincere seekers in their own rights. I am not an unreasonable person. I would be willing to listen to the words of direct perception of a problem at Ananda. I, however, haven't seen one, and haven't heard anything but "she said that he said that she said that he heard from an anonomous website" chatter in regard to the "character flaws of Swami Kriyananda. Meanwhile, all those (like myself, and others) who post positive things about Swamiji are ridiculed as being "brainwashed" or sounding "cultish." This is intollerable. Aren't we as Yogis supposed to value experiential evidence above all else? Didn't Master teach us that we should use our own experience as the proof of truth? Why are we, then ridiculed here for seeing the good in a man who is good? I see now that I've into a "mood" as Master would have said. I hope that the gist of what I mean to say is understood and does not come off as a personal attack on any one poster (sorry GregsBrother). This is not what I am getting at here. It just seems to me that what we REALLY have is people falling out with SRF, but continuing to belive the lies that organization has perpetuated about Ananda. Why does this occur? I have NEVER experienced anything but loving acceptance from members of Ananda, including Swami Kriyananda. He is not a perfected Yogi, but also does not claim to be one. I was at a talk where I heard him say (after a description from scripture regarding God-Realization "but I don't know, because I don't have Samadhi". I'm pretty sure that this talk is avalible on Real Video from the Ananda website, and will look for it and post back when I find it. MastersChela
GregsBrother Registered User (12/29/02 11:00 pm) Reply	Re: RE: GregsBrother MastersChela wrote- "I have waded through the deposition you speak of, and it tells me little more than the fact that the SRF hired lawyer was "out for blood" and did all he could to get Mr. Walters to confess to numerous sexual crimes that he did not committ." Sorry I touched a sore spot there. And sorry to touch it again but you seem to be in denial, per your quote above. Are you saying Mr. Walters didn't mean to give that sworn testimony? You are saying he did not do what he said he did? Anyway, Walters is just another example in a long list. My basic point is only that organizations seem to be flawed by their very nature, and we should always consider them as seperate from the "Divine". It's not unreasonable for me to suggest that the abuses of power we see at SRF have also manifested at Ananda. Look at the people in the Catholic church now. The leaders covered up that whole abuse scandal. So now the membership knows their leaders are flawed, and so they are taking charge of their church and making it responsible and accountable. It's terrible what happened/is happening in the Catholic church. But at least now their membership is awake and energized and holding their leaders responsible. Some SRF/Ananda members need to undergo a similar awakening. (PS MastersChela...of course it's not "personal". We are just venting ideas; thats good I think. PEACE! Edited by: GregsBrother at: 12/29/02 11:03:01 pm
MastersChela Registered User (12/30/02 1:13 am) Reply	Re: RE: GregsBrother ============================================= It's not unreasonable for me to suggest that the abuses of power we see at SRF have also manifested at Ananda. ============================================ Again, I must peacefully disagree with you on this point, Brother. I understand where you are coming from, and I also see how it is "theoretically possible" for such abuses to occur, but I have NEVER seen proof of them. Of course, I am not an "insider" in the sense that I am not close friends with those in charge of the day to day functions of the organization, but I do know them, and I can tell you with all honesty that they are good people. They are not doing what they do out of a desire for power, but out of a desire to help others attain spiriutal hights. To defend my position on Swami Kriyananda, you must first understand that what you've read is a deposition, not testimony in front of a jury or a judge in court. You'll notice, too, that while Swami admits to brief encounters with a couple women (having sex three or four times in like 30 years... That's quite a lot of control for a man who admits to having a strong sense of sexual desire, something I can relate to deeply), he also NEVER says that he cooerced them into anything. As far as he preceved the situation, they were all consesual acts. Of course, some of these women alsosaid later that they were coorced by him. ONLY these two people know what really occurred, so let's just leave that there, as it's not essential to what I'm getting at. OK, yes. Kriyananda had sex with people while he was a swami (and after he'd dropped his vows). The Swami vow doesn't make someone perfect as soon as they take it. It's a vow with God to do the best that one can do to resisit the pull of Maya on their life. Some Swamis eat too much, some take personal wealth... These things happen because they're still earthbound, still trapped to some degree in the shackles of Maya. Even Master didn't reach Nirvikalpa Samadhi till 1948. This means that till then, he was still susseptable to the same desires that you or I experience. Everyone is till they get to that point. ============================================== Look at the people in the Catholic church now. The leaders covered up that whole abuse scandal. So now the membership knows their leaders are flawed, and so they are taking charge of their church and making it responsible and accountable. ============================================== Ananda has this accountability. Swami Kriyananda is not the "leader" of Ananda anymore. He lives in Asissi, Italy and writes and spends most of his time in seculusion. Ananda is THE MOST democratic place I have ever witnessed. Each person is given a chance to speak their mind, and a decision is NEVER made till a consensus can be reached (that's consensus, not majority vote). Ananda is very different from SRF in one important aspect: each Ananda householder community, each church, each tiny meditation group is totally independent from the others, financially and philosphically. I have been to four different "Anandas" and have seen that while they all share a common love of Master and use Swami Kriyananda's songs and guidelines in their services, each has its own flavor, and is shaped a great deal by the ministers and parishoners of the given center. Of course, Ananda is not perfect. I agree with you that no organization can be, and it should NEVER replace God. This is, in fact, a tennant of Ananda's belief, summed up in Swami Kriyananda's statement that "Individuals are more important than organizations." He constantly states in his writings that organizations need to exist so that groups of devotees will have a framework for meeting and a system for teaching others the way (especially in today's world) but the system MUST be flexable so that it can mold itself to the needs of each individual. I respect what you've said, GregsBrother. I understand your perspective, but I think it's important that you learn more about the workings of Ananda before making too many generalizations. I was very interested in the workings of Ananda, as I have always been keen on the concept of cooperative communities and would like to start a farming cooprative in the midwest someday. On my first visit to Ananda Village, one of my first questions was how the system of land/home ownership worked and how one went about having a home on the property. The answer was not a simple one, because while there are rules and requirements, these are also flexable, and change depending on the needs of the individual. If one is a sincere truth seeker, Ananda makes every effort to balance their needs with the needs of the whole group. I hope this gives you a bit more insight into Ananda. It is not "Kriyananda's Harem" as has been portrayed by some. Kriyananda, while being a spiritual guide for the organization, is not involved in it in any active, organizational way today. And Ananda Village in Nevada City is not the "Mother Center" of Ananda. There are no decrees going out to the other centers or meditation groups. Center leaders do communicate with friends back at "the village," and there is an exchange of members from one group to another as people move or their spiritual focus shifts, but each group is independent in thought and totally free without "mother center approval" to change things as the local group sees fit.
wholetruth Registered User (12/31/02 11:09 am) Reply	Re: Nirvikalpa Samadhi "Even Master didn't reach Nirvikalpa Samadhi till 1948." That's an interesting piece of information, MastersChela. What is its source? Happy New Year to you and all the good folks here! Edited by: wholetruth at: 12/31/02 11:11:34 am
MastersChela Registered User (12/31/02 12:36 pm) Reply	Re: Nirvikalpa Samadhi I don't know how accurate or inaccurate that bit of info is, but I read it in one of those comic books published by YSS in India on the life of Yogananda. It was pretty accurate on most things, althought it skipped much from Mejda/Autobiography, as would be expected from a 35 pg comic book. ============================================= Happy New Year to you and all the good folks here! ============================================= To you as well, to all friends and fellow truth-seekers here at the Walrus. I do have to say that although I've had many differences of opinion with people here, that with only one or two exceptions, all have maintaned Master's rule of "Fools argue, but wise men discuss." There is always something to discuss, always a good issue to challenge my conceptions and shake my delusions. Nothing can move me from my Love for my Guru, but being here, and hearing the enormous variety of information that comes through here is a wonderful experience in the whole. Thank you. Edited by: MastersChela at: 12/31/02 12:45:44 pm
chela2020 Registered User (12/31/02 6:55 pm) Reply	Re: RE: GregsBrother Masterschela, Thank you for your postings on Ananda. It should help others to see things in a better light. I learned of Kriyananda before I joined SRF because I had bought The Auto book that was published through his organization. When I questioned a member in SRF about it, one who was running meetings in San Antonio area, he told me that Kriyananda loved Master very dearly. He also informed me that he was asked to step down as SRF Vice President. I later read "The Path" by him, and I remember how much he suffered when he was asked to step down, that he was even suicidal for a while. Later when I heard about his affairs, I talked with a woman at Ananda who stood by his side through the entire ordeal, and she talked about how much she watched him suffer. Whatever really happened between him and these women we will never really know, but it is for certain that all parties suffered. But just like anyone else, he should be forgiven, at least that is the way I see it. If anyone of those women lied on the witness stand, then they should be forgiven also. It should all be put behind us. No one is perfect, not even a Swami. He stepped down, what more can we ask for? But should he then be shunned? No. That would not be loving. God would always want us to forgive. So whenever he comes to the States and visits those in Ananda, I think, how wonderful and forgiving those members are of him. It took me a long time to see this, to understand that we can't expect perfection from anyone on earth. Edited by: chela2020 at: 1/16/03 8:37:24 pm
MastersChela Registered User (12/31/02 10:41 pm) Reply	RE: Kriyananda's suffering Chela2020, Thank you, my beloved sister, for this perspective. I hadn't really thought about Swami Kriyananda's personal suffering on this issue too directly, but I want to thank you for pointing it out to me. I was just recently listening to his online audiobook "A Place Called Ananda." And now that I think of it, there's a discription he gives in Chapter 12 regarding a relationship he had with a fellow renunciate (a nun) at Mt. Washington. He speaks of it much differently than she did many years later during the Bertuluci case, but he also speaks extensively on his own personal pain in this relationship... He also discusses this issue that we've been discussing regarding the humanity of those who take the swami vows. Listen here: "A Place Called Ananda" Chapter 12 MastersChela
srflongago Registered User (1/2/03 5:30 pm) Reply	Re: RE: Kriyananda's suffering To Chela 2020 It is not possible to resolve the contradictory accounts you have heard of the past. Each buttresses his or her own current bias and belief and hurt feelings by his or her own selective account of the past. The few incontrovertible facts help little to resolve these issues. I do not believe anyone you referred to is conscious of coloring the truth, whether they be followers or detractors of Yogananda or Kriyananda or otherwise involved. It is best to listen with sympathy, to be tolerant of conflicting views, and to proceed on one's own path to enlightenment with serenity and calm. To do otherwise is to be inevitably drawn from the clear light to become enmeshed in the darkness of the confusion and despair of others. Travelling toward the light encourages those around you to transcend their confusion and despair. I wish you a tranquil and rewarding year! Edited by: srflongago at: 1/2/03 6:14:51 pm
chela2020 Registered User (1/3/03 5:42 am) Reply	Re: RE: Kriyananda's suffering srflongago, People's perceptions are often colored, and people sometimes embellish things. I do not know if these women did or not, but I tend to not believe all stories anymore. Yet, as I said, all should be forgiven, and the past should be left behind. Edited by: chela2020 at: 1/16/03 8:42:46 pm
GregsBrother Registered User (2/28/03 6:00 pm) Reply	. I think many of us want to think of Yogis as special people, that have something we dont have. Or have it in a greater degree than we do. I think it is this belief that interferes with seeing people as people. If Kriyananda was your electrician, you wouldn't think twice about accepting the sworn testimony he gave, and that given by the victims, and the judgement of the court against him. It is the belief that he is a "guru" or a "swami" that makes it hard for some to accept reality. This whole thing of putting someone on the "guru pedastal" is very problematic. It is at the heart of the problems this board describes, in many ways. Past misdeeds are not important, but it is worth noting that the hero worship that allowed those deeds to happen is still going on. It sucks, but we HAVE TO BE independant truth seekers. We cant just "tune in" with a self described Swami and let him do the work for us. (in my opinion)
MastersChela Registered User (3/2/03 11:14 pm) Reply	Re:We cant just "tune in"? *Quote:* It sucks, but we HAVE TO BE independant truth seekers. We cant just "tune in" with a self described Swami and let him do the work for us. I have to say that I agree AND disagree with your statement, G'sBrother. Of course we have to do the work for ourselves, of course we have to put out our own effort, and NOBODY can "do the work for us," but at the same time, we also NEED a guru. Kriyananda (or Daya Mata) is not that guru... But we do need a guru. And perhaps we even need Kriyananda (or another disciple of a great master) to help us find our guru or to lead us to the truth. Truth is a strange thing, Brother. Look at protestantism, for example: there are literally HUNDREDS of different deominations in the USA alone, and each of them thinks they've got it right (some think they have it right to the exclusion of all others). What they say is that their "right" is the "right" of the Bible. What we have here is something like "truth by consensus." A group of people get together and agree that the bible means *THIS, and since there's enough of them to buy a building with some pews and pay another one of them to tell them how right they are every Sunday, then they must* know the truth. That's not truth. Truth can only be found at the core of our being... where our ego-soul meets God. Of course, nobody can carry us through the door that leads to this place. We have to walk through it ourselves. But (and this is a BIG But), How will we know where to even start looking for this door, how will we even know the difference between the first brief glimpses of God and the smatterings of mental hallucinations, if we don't have a guide who's waked the path before, a guide who's already been through the door and has come back to open it for us? You are right that we must walk through the door ourselves, but the door is locked, and we've misplaced our copy of the key. We need a Guru to open the door for us. *Quote:* I think many of us want to think of Yogis as special people, that have something we dont have. Or have it in a greater degree than we do. I believe WE are special people. I'm a Yogi. If you love God and strive to be with Him, then you're one too. The Yogi is one who strives for Yoga (Union). Master did have soemthing I don't have, but I will have it, and I'll have it before this life is out, if it is God's will for me. And I'll have it because my guru has it, and I'll have it because I learned where to look for it from people like Kriyananda and a wonderful student of Oliver Black's who first taught me Hong Sau and introduced me to this Path. We need teachers, G'sBrother, in anything we do. And nothing is more challenging than finding the way out of our mental jungle. In fact, the thing in our mind that says "I can do this alone, I don't need help" (the ego), is the very thing that is preventing us from doing it. Someone once said to Yogananda: "I believe in standing on one's own two feet, in taking one's own hard knocks in live and learning one's lessons from them. What person of any character woulld want to gain his understanding in life through someone else?" The Master replied: "What if you had your heart set on learning to pilot a plane? Would you object to having soeone show you how? Surely it would be foolish to go though life without acceptin advice from anyone. People who reject the need for a guru don't realize what a steep mountain stands before them on the path to God." *Quote:* This whole thing of putting someone on the "guru pedastal" is very problematic. It is at the heart of the problems this board describes, in many ways. Past misdeeds are not important, but it is worth noting that the hero worship that allowed those deeds to happen is still going on. I agree, that many problems can arrise when we hold peole up to a standard they might not deserve, but I also think that we might miss a chance at our own sainthood if we are too quick to reject a teacher or to believe something about him/her simply because another person has said they are not trustworthy. Listen to what they say. Is it good? Is it useful to your spiritual development? If so, take it, and offer them thanks and your trust. Even more important is to take Jesus' advice and "know the tree by its fruits." I have met Kriyananda a number of times, but I must admit that I do not know him. However, I do know a great many of his close students, and I know them to be honest, trustworthy, and overflowing with love and a desire to pass on Master's teachings to new disciples and Kriyabans. The fruit of this tree is sound, it is sweet, and it is ripe. That is how I will judge Kriyananda, and it is how I will judge Master, as well. In divine Brotherhood, Jonathan Edited by: MastersChela at: 3/2/03 11:16:20 pm
soulcircle Registered User (3/3/03 1:36 pm) Reply	a great march and april discussion why do we need a guru? *Quote:* The next few years are going to have to see a hard-nosed reevaluation of this whole area, and the reintroduction of sober and sobering criteria at every level of the spiritual enterprise. I myself believe that GURU ABUSE HAS REACHED EPIDEMIC PROPORTIONS, it is a kind of spiritual cancer that is destroying from within the spiritual health and independence of thousands of seekers. Andrew Harvey quoted from "The Return of the Mother." in a post by Kevin in the thread pub78.ezboard.com/fsrfwal...=1&stop=20 SRF Walrus: you may need to correct this link please do!! which came first, me or PY, the disciple or guru, the chicken or the egg? humorcircle/soulcircle/livin on currycircle Edited by: soulcircle at: 3/3/03 4:27:55 pm
soulcircle Registered User (3/3/03 4:30 pm) Reply	taking this monologue/discussion to core issues Guests and All, have found psycholgical questions for some of you rumored that eating curry is also humorous lmaocircle
MastersChela Registered User (3/3/03 4:57 pm) Reply	The epidemic of guru abuse *Quote:* The next few years are going to have to see a hard-nosed reevaluation of this whole area, and the reintroduction of sober and sobering criteria at every level of the spiritual enterprise. I myself believe that GURU ABUSE HAS REACHED EPIDEMIC PROPORTIONS, it is a kind of spiritual cancer that is destroying from within the spiritual health and independence of thousands of seekers. This is an interesting quote, soulcircle, and a GREAT conversation seed! A branch-off to this would be "Who is to blame for the situation at hand?" Is it the abusive "gurus" (I use this in quotes, because a true guru wouldn't abuse his/her chelas), is it the chelas who are primarily westerners and not accustomed to the modes of teaching used by Hindu teachers (remember the story where Yogananda dumpped a bucket of water on Faye's head from the third floor while she was teaching a class outdoors), or is it the "give it to me" culture we live in, where the student is so eager to hand over everything to someone simply because they're indian or call themselves a "swami"? Perhaps it's a bit of all these together. I do not believe that the guru-disciple system is damaged beyond repair, only that the word guru has taken on a new, somewhat insideous meaning that it did not have in ancient India. Giving one's life to their true Guru is not the handing over of one's freewill, but is the dispensing of one's egoic desires. The problem here: If we are too eager to hand over all our freewill and want someone to "do it for us" as GregsBrother so rightly pointed out before, we are very likely to get burned by a phony guru, just as we might get suckered into a "give me your credit card number and I'll give you the key to unlimited internet wealth" spam mail if we're too greedy or too desparate for cash. The great teachers of Sanathan Dharma and of the Tao always stressed that when the student was ready (when the fruit is ripe), the teacher would come without the student needing to go looking for him. Today, (and perhaps even moreso in the 60's-70's when much of this guru abuse was made public) we had many who were not ready out there searching HARD for their Gurus. This made them "ripe for the taking" instead of "ripe for the harvest." And whenever there's money to be made or people to control, there's always a greedy, power-hungry person willing to fill the void. Edited by: MastersChela at: 3/3/03 5:41:29 pm
prssmd Registered User (8/16/03 3:22 pm) Reply	Ananda Meditation Groups If anyone, even with no direct personal contact with Ananda, and without being a member of Ananda, can form and advertise an "Ananda Meditation Group," then I hope Ananda will explain what it means by an "Ananda Meditation Group." Edited by: prssmd at: 9/1/03 2:18 am
KDasLo Registered User (9/1/03 9:30 am) Reply	Re: Ananda Meditation Groups As someone who works directly with Ananda Meditation Groups, let me clear up some of your possible misconceptions. Of Course, anyone who forms a group is already a member of Ananda. Nearly all Ananda meditation group leaders are Kriyabans, the rest are working in that direction. All have the sincere desire to work with Ananda in spreading Yogananda's teachings. That is the main requirement. Ananda is far less controlling and requirement-oriented in this regard compared to other organizations. Edited by: KDasLo at: 9/1/03 9:55 am
prssmd Registered User (9/2/03 10:18 am) Reply	Re: Ananda Meditation Groups KDasLo writes, in regard to groups permitted by Ananda to advertise themselves on the internet as an "Ananda Meditation Group," that "anyone who forms a group is already a member of Ananda." I don�t believe this is true. Ananda has permitted someone in Bangkok, Thailand, named Derrick, to advertise himself on the internet as having formed an "Ananda Meditation Group," although Derrick (according to what he told me on the telephone) is not a member of Ananda, has never visited Ananda in Nevada City, CA, USA, or in Italy, and has never met Kriyananda. (See www.geocities.com/thailan...tiongroup/ .) I think Derrick should not be permitted to present himself to the public as having formed an "Ananda Meditation Group." I also think that if (contrary to what I think is best) he IS permitted by Ananda to present himself to the public as having formed an "Ananda Meditation Group," then, at the very least, he should be required by Ananda to clearly state on his website that he is not a member of Ananda, has never visited Ananda in Nevada City, CA or in Italy, and has never met Kriyananda. Of course, Ananda should encourage meditation groups, but Ananda should require persons permitted to use Ananda�s name to promote their groups to not mislead the public about the nature of those groups. Edited by: prssmd at: 9/2/03 1:00 pm
redpurusha Registered User (9/3/03 7:08 am) Reply	Re: Is an "Ananda Walrus" needed too? I've read material by Ananda, not to learn about Donald Walters, but to get more insight on Yogananda, and that I have. From what I've read, I hold Walters as the most accurate editor of Yogananda's words. This is not to say he hasn't made mistakes or abused his power (to some extent) -I have no interest in his personal problems, we all have personal problems and have made mistakes. Perhaps I just prefer his editing or interpretation of Yogananda's words, whatever it is, it has the clearest ring of truth for me. I don't care if I ever meet or talk with him. I care about Yogananda's teachings and being able to understand them and follow them to the best of my ability. If Walters, through his editing, as well as individual writing (some really solid works in my opinion) has helped me and others to know more about Yogananda and his teachings on how to live and commune with God, then I am gratefull and wish him the best in continuing this work and purpose. Ok, he has abused his power of authority to some degree, but its nothing like, for example how Saddam's son Idey (or whatever his name is) raped, pillaged, and killed anyone he wanted (now that's an example of absolute power corrupts absolutely). Now that I think about it, the main reason why the SRF board is like 8 women and only 2 men is the high risk of men falling into sexual desires, that would tarnish the perfecet image of the society. However, if you look at the SRF alter, its a row of Self-realized men. Thus, judging from this, being in a male body is like a high-risk, high-reward position to be in, right guys?
thatpilgrim Registered User (9/3/03 2:06 pm) Reply	Re: Ananda Meditation Groups A note to prssmd: Obviously Ananda feels that the leader of the Ananda Thailand meditation group does have a connection with Ananda (he has received Kriya from Ananda, after all- maybe after you talked to him?), and is therefore qualified to have an Ananda meditation group. Ananda has decided this based on extensive communication with the person. And you had just one phone conversation with him? I would suggest you contact Ananda yourself and find out why this is so confusing to you. One possibility: If he hasn't visited Ananda Village (Ananda is far less Mother Centeralized than SRF), or met Kriyananda, maybe there are other ways that one connects with Ananda. Phone, letters, and email work quite well, I've found. Edited by: thatpilgrim at: 9/3/03 5:06 pm

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