Is an "Ananda Walrus" needed too?

SRF Walrus

Mt. Washington, Ca

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SRF Walrus > Ananda Related Discussions > Is an "Ananda Walrus" needed too?
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prssmd Registered User (9/4/03 7:24 am) Reply	Re: Ananda Meditation Groups thatpilgrim seems to be unaware of the facts. First of all, I did indeed contact Ananda about this matter, and I found their response quite inadequate. Secondly, Derrick told me on the telephone that he had had no direct contact with Ananda, including of course that he was not a member of Ananda and had certainly never received kriya from Ananda. thatpilgrim also says that the matter I have raised is "confusing" to me. I don't find the matter the least bit confusing. I wish that those who have handled this matter on behalf of Ananda would pay more attention to the facts and to giving adequate replies to inquiries. In my opinion, Ananda's behavior has been a bit immature in this matter. I wish Kriyananda would take a look at all the correspondence--I think he'd see that Ananda staff have been acting emotionally and without careful consideration of the issues. Edited by: prssmd at: 9/4/03 7:26 am
thatpilgrim Registered User (9/4/03 8:11 am) Reply	Re: Ananda Meditation Groups I would suggest anyone who is interested in learning more contact Ananda. I found their answer to be completely adequate.
prssmd Registered User (9/4/03 10:35 pm) Reply	Re: Ananda Meditation Groups I did contact Ananda! And this is what they said: "One concern was that he [Derrick in Thailand] may have been "putting himself forward" as we would say. Bharat pointed out from his experience in that part of the world is that students/seekers consider the teacher in a different light then we. Bharat is treated with much more reverence then we are accustomed to doing in the West." The above was basically presented to me as Ananda's final reply to my complaint, but you should be able to see the total irrelevance of this remark to my complaint. So I feel there has been a lack of intelligence in Ananda's manner of dealing with the issue. If you find this answer adequate, that´s fine with me, but I sure don´t.
prssmd Registered User (9/4/03 10:48 pm) Reply	Re: Ananda Meditation Groups Well, I have to admit that Ananda has truly disappointed me. For several years, I found Ananda staff to be polite and reasonable. The fact is, however, that if you make any slight criticism of Ananda, they will cut you off completely and never talk to you again. I believe Kriyananda would be extremely displeased at the conduct of Ananda staff in this matter. The Ananda staff I have recently dealt with are on a very low level of spiritual development, and respond to criticism by ignoring the issues and engaging in personal attacks. Although I have always been very polite to all Ananda staff and attempted to deal with issues and not involve myself in personal attacks, recently, I have just received the following obnoxious letter from Ananda staff: "I'm afraid I do not feel capable of corresponding with you further. It seems that whenever you do not understand something you assume the other person is "unintelligent" or "offensive." At first I assumed you were sincere but misguided. At this point it seems to me that your lack of genuine interest in seeing the other person's point of view is habitual and almost held up as a positive quality. Swami defines "maturity" as the ability to see someone else's point of view equally as well as your own. Disagreements then still exist, of course, but hostile language ceases, and good will is always felt. I'm afraid I feel the former and not the latter in your recent letters and prefer not to encourage more of the same." I have also received the following obnoxious letter from Ananda staff: "First, and almost an aside, I am amazed you insist on having our "discussion" about meditation groups publicly! Neither I nor anyone else at Ananda has interest in your posting to the world your opinions and our responses, so that bridge is probably burned down now. I am sure this comes as a shock to you (that normal friendly people exchanging ideas don't post each others letters on the web when they write to each other), but there you have it. Can you imagine that I might write something to you that is for you and not the public. Not that it is secret but that I write differently depending on to whom and for what use? More importantly... Your letters have changed tone significantly since we started writing each other. When you first wrote you had questions and a what seemed an open mind. At this point your letters are filled with "I think you should" "Ananda should" "You guys shouldn't" "How can you..." etc. I'm not sure that anyone here wants or needs the unsolicited advice. Too, if your questions are meant to elicit answers that you consistently criticize or find fault with, I do not feel much magnetism to respond (what, after all, would the point be?) If, instead, you try to find what IS true in the answers you receive (even if there are parts that do not seem correct to you), you are more likely to learn something. I imagine your response might be, "Well Ananda doesn't listen to others" or "Ananda doesn't like suggestions" or "Boy are they closed" all of which would fit exactly with what I said above, (and also, by the way, be false). Another possible response of yours might be "Gee, this guy ... has been at Ananda all these years and seems at least marginally intelligent. Is it possible that he is seeing something that I am not? Perhaps even seeing something in ME that I am not? I wonder what it can be? I bet if I saw it it might even be helpful to my growth! Maybe if I relax and meditate on it, and try to find what IS true in what he says, I can see it too!" It is of course your choice as to which way to think about all of this. ...... P.S. I notice you never responded to my letter/suggestion that you focus on what is positive in order to improve yourself, rather than just on what you don't like. I hope this idea, at least, makes sense to you, but fear that this suggestion too got met with "But what about?..." " Readers of SRF Walrus may judge for themselves. My own opinion is that Ananda staff seem to be quite eager to create enemies. Edited by: prssmd at: 9/7/03 11:48 pm
nagchampa2 Registered User (9/5/03 4:37 pm) Reply	Re: Ananda Meditation Groups While I am not a member of Ananda And I never have been I see their letter to you As very reasonable And it feels like they have been very patient with you and I agree that one should not post letters they have written to you, privately, to the world.
bheema ma Registered User (9/5/03 8:44 pm) Reply	Re: Ananda Meditation Groups What Nagchampa2 said.
MastersChela Registered User (9/5/03 11:06 pm) Reply	Re: Ananda Meditation Groups I agree with others here... If prssmd's behavior in his (her?) correspondence w/Ananda is ANYTHING like his posts here, I'd probably respond that way too. Like others here have said, Ananda doesn't seem to be interested in centrallizing power... That's why I like it, that why I've dedicated a great deal of my time and energy to their work vs the other rays of Yogananda's light. Prssmd: What is your SADHANA like? You, like some others on this board, spend a lot of time talking about the shortcomings of others... Do you have Self-Realization? Forget about Ananda. They (we) aren't important to your own spiritual development. Get God. Once you're with Him, all the silly shortcomings of others and of organizations won't mean squat to you. Many blessings and joy in your meditations!
nagchampa2 Registered User (9/6/03 5:17 am) Reply	Re: Ananda Meditation Groups MastersChela wrote: "Once you're with Him, all the silly shortcomings of others and of organizations won't mean squat to you." That is so true. It is so easy to find shortcomings in others. I have a friend Who kept looking at her feet And the more she looked at them The uglier they became And so she wouldn't wear sandals And we were going to Mexico Where sandals would be better And much cooler than tennis shoes. And I said to her, There is nothing wrong with your feet. I don't see the problem. And after a little while She saw that I was right. She wore sandals to Mexico And continues to this very day To wear them in the summer.
etzchaim Registered User (9/9/03 6:47 am) Reply	Re: Ananda Meditation Groups "Readers of SRF Walrus may judge for themselves. My own opinion is that Ananda staff seem to be quite eager to create enemies." True, true, but judging from the many other posts you have made here, I don't think it's Ananda's staff that is eager to create enemies. Etzchaim
prssmd Registered User (9/30/03 12:59 am) Reply	Re: x x Edited by: prssmd at: 4/6/04 1:36 am
prssmd Registered User (12/3/03 2:30 am) Reply	Re: Ananda Meditation Groups Some readers of this website seem not to understand what is wrong with the lengthy letters to me from Ananda which I quoted above (see " Ananda Meditation Groups"). The chief problem with these letters is that they totally ignore the real issues. Ananda refused to demonstrate that the leader of its Thailand meditation group ever received kriya initiation or even joined Ananda even though it is obviously misleading and even fraudulent to allow such persons to run an official Ananda group. People such as Masterschela engage in the same sort of fraud by ignoring the real issues and simply attacking the person (me!) who raises questions for Ananda to explain. It's quite childish conduct on Masterschela's part, actually--his method, like Ananda's is to ignore the question and attack the questioner. Masterschela wrotes, "If prssmd's behavior in his (her?) correspondence w/Ananda is ANYTHING like his posts here, I'd probably respond that way too." I wish Masterschela would explain what he means. What is his objection to my other posts here? I think I know why he won't say: There IS nothing amiss or wrong with my other posts here. Masterschela is just trying to slander me.
MastersChela Registered User (12/5/03 10:06 am) Reply	Re: Ananda Meditation Groups Well, I guess I've gotta come back in here and reply to a question directed at me... I've been on a bit of a "walrus sabatical" to avoid the negativity and the desire to argue. But, I think it's OK to answer this question, since I did, to some extent instigate the statement with my own post. I'm not trying to "slander" you. Here's the definition from dictonary.com: *Quote:* 1. Law. Oral communication of false statements injurious to a person's reputation. 2. A false and malicious statement or report about someone. Since I didn't lie about you (I simply stated my opinion about your posts), I wasn't slandering you. When you use legal terms like that against someone, I think it'd be best if you understood the definition of them. Now, in reply to your question: The reason I said what I did was because I've felt that your posts were full of negativity and a desire to start a fight. I know the people at Ananda, and I know that this isn't an attitude they respond to. The person who wrote to you asked you to look at yourself and see what it was that moved you to be so negative. Basically, they're not interested in getting into an arguement with you about something that simply isn't your business. You're not a member of Ananda, so the state of an Ananda meditation group shouldn't be of any concern to you. It isn't like Ananda is making a big deal about their "Thailand meditation group" at Sangha meetings. Ananda IS international. We've got a very big work in Itay, and a group of people working RIGHT NOW at trying to get a place started in Delhi, India. Ananda doesn't need some guy with a website in Thailand in order to claim its internationality... So what are you arguing about. They obviously have a relationship with him if he's linked on the Ananda.org website, so why do you care if he's a Kriyaban or not? There's nothing that says one has to be a Kriyaban to teach other people Hong Sau. Since (with the acception of Italy) ALL the Ananda Kriya initiations are in America, I can see how it would be pretty difficult for someone from Thailand to get to CA for an initiation... Basically, the relationship between Ananda and this guy in thailand is really none of your business, and the people at Ananda are in no way obligated to discuss it with someone whose only real motiviation is to prove that there's something corrupt about Ananda. Your posts (which is the real question here) are almost always negative. I would offer examples, but nearly every post is negative. You always try to start arguements and always look at the negative side of spiritual teachers and organizations. Even if this guy isn't a Kriyaban, it doesn't "prove" that Ananda is some corrupt organiziation, and if you were in Ananda, you'd know that Ananda is full of loving, generous people. They're not perfect, but they're trying, they're striving for God. What it WOULD prove is your intent on focusing on the negative side of every situation... WHat about the positive, that Ananda is reaching out to people in whatever way they can, and empowering people on every level, even non-kriyabans...
prssmd Registered User (12/6/03 9:01 pm) Reply	Re: Ananda Meditation Groups MastersChela once again has virtually nothing of substance to offer and has very little to say in defense of his previous slanderous statements about me. (By "slanderous," I do not mean "legally actionable in a court of law"--I am using the word in a looser and more informal sense.) In fact, like a broken record, he just goes on repeating essentially the same old accusation that he previously made of me: "You're so negative; You're so negative; You're so negative...." On this website, I've only been negative about those who engage in fraud and deceit, and about slanderous people like MastersChela who ignore the issues and instead engage in personal attacks--a method of discourse that I have recently found to be quite typical of Ananda people. Until a few months ago, I quite liked Ananda and I was astonished at how much ill will they had generated, but now I fully understand all the ill will against Ananda and am not a bit surprised that they've been sued so many times--often successfully. It is highly appropriate to be negative toward those who engage in fraud and deceit. MastersChela's position is that it is none of my business whether Ananda has engaged in fraud and deceit. As Ananda is a public organization that advertises itself on the internet, I disagree with MastersChela and instead believe that it is everyone's business whether Ananda has engaged in fraud and deceit. I've already outlined the (fairly mild form of) fraud and deceit I uncovered at Ananda above, so I won't repeat myself. Contrary to MastersChela, I do not always look at the negative side. There is of course a very positive side to Ananda, but there is room for improvement. I don't look for fraud and deceit, either--it's so rampant in the yoga world, particularly in India, that one doesn't have to look for it in order to encounter it quite regularly. If MastersChela would just open his eyes and look at my postings on this website on numerous different threads, he would see that he is mistaken in his remarks about me, and that the majority of my postings are NOT negative. That's because the majority of my postings are not about fraud and deceit--areas in which it is highly appropriate to be negative. I write about many different topics. But in typical Ananda fashion, MastersChela shows his lack of interest in the facts. In typical Ananda fashion, he's only interested in attacking me, the person raising questions about Ananda. Edited by: prssmd at: 12/7/03 10:19 pm
premdas Registered User (12/13/03 6:34 pm) Reply	Re: Ananda Meditation Groups If you're a devotee, I have an idea! Why not spend your time practicing energization and meditating, instead of carping about others? Yogananda often redirected a devotee's outward complaining back into meditation; hong sau, om, kriya, higher kriya. I would suggest attunement to the Guru as well, through satsang and reading. How about chanting? "Chanting is half the battle" and brings forth the bhakti (sweet devotion) energy. Pray for inner peace. Ask yourself, "What would Master do?". And beware of negativity (hey, especially now in this crazy world) and its bitterness. Read the Gita, Yogananda's many writings and listen to his recorded talks/chants. Fight the good fight; do inner battle against the ever-active ego. May you experience more joy on your path. Sincerely, Premdas (a gurubai).
username Registered User (12/13/03 6:42 pm) Reply	Re: Ananda Meditation Groups The above is the SRF brainwashing technique
stermejo Registered User (12/14/03 2:28 pm) Reply	Re: Ananda Meditation Groups "The above is the SRF brainwashing technique." Yeah it is. But hey, "And beware of negativity (hey, especially now in this crazy world) and its bitterness." Ever wonder WHY it's sooo crazy nowadays? Fundamentalism. Religious, yes Christian. Hindu. Muslim, Jewish, SRF, ad nauseum. I guess there's Hip hop and gang fundamentalists, too. Here's a spooky question. What's goin' on with the Buddhists. When are they going to show their fundamentals?
YellowBeard420 Registered User (12/14/03 3:37 pm) Reply	Chasing Your Tail in Search of the Divine > Premdas wrote: "Yogananda often redirected a devotee's outward complaining back into meditation; hong sau, om, kriya, higher kriya." Sound's like what was written above the gates to Auschwitz, "Arbeit macht frei" -- "work will set you free." In other words, Yogananda was saying if you're questioning what I'm saying, your critical thinking abilities haven't been squashed enough, so continue with these brainwashing techniques that I have set up to program you by to recognize my Divine glories. In another thread, Username brought up an important point -- SRF teaches you how to brainwash yourself. And people will continue to do this, chasing their tails in search of the Divine. SRF doesn't want you to recognize the Divine within yourself, they want you to recognize the Divine within them!
YellowBeard420 Registered User (12/14/03 3:45 pm) Reply	Buddha > Stermejo writes: "Here's a spooky question. What's goin' on with the Buddhists. When are they going to show their fundamentals?" You get a few crazy sects from them, but it's kind of rare. The Buddha taught a wonderful thing that nips fundamentalism in the bud. The core of his teachings is that the Divine is within yourself and within all others equally. This is the most important spiritual message in my opinion that can be transmitted to others through words.
MastersChela Registered User (12/16/03 9:56 am) Reply	Re: Buddha *Quote:* The Buddha taught a wonderful thing that nips fundamentalism in the bud. The core of his teachings is that the Divine is within yourself and within all others equally. This is the most important spiritual message in my opinion that can be transmitted to others through words. This was Sri Yogananda's core teaching too... It's also the core teaching of ALL the great masters... Jesus, Ramakrishna, Krishna, St. Francis, Mother Mary... ALL of them said these same things. It's not the teachers that are to blame. They're all coming from the same source. I'm a bit put-off when someone says that Premdas's advice to meditate more is a "brainwashing technique." How is this so? Hong Sau and OM technique are not brainwashing... They're actually a couple of the oldest meditation techniques on the planet, and have NOTHING to do with brainwashing (which insinuates the training of one's thoughts to worship or give away their will to another person). I've been a pracicing Buddhist, and quite nearly became a Buddhist Monk before I found Yogananda's teachings. The Buddha actually TAUGHT Hong Sau. It's not called that in Buddhism (it's called vipassana--"mindfulness of breathing"), but it's the exact same thing... We're all one, my friend, just like the Buddha, AND Yoganandaji said.
prssmd Registered User (12/25/03 9:15 pm) Reply	Re: Is an "Ananda Walrus" needed too? GregsBrother (above) says that Kriyananda "abuse[d] his position of power." If he did (and I have no idea whether he did), perhaps that abuse was facilitated by the error made in the yogic philosophy taught by Kriyananda, SRF, and many others, of giving selflessness and "the oneness of it all" precedence over separateness and individuality. Giving selflessness and egolessness a high priority makes human beings feel bad about themselves, and consequently susceptible to authoritarian manipulation--partly because no one can actually succeed in becoming selfless or egoless. Joel Kramer has written much on this topic. Edited by: prssmd at: 12/25/03 9:24 pm

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