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Pig Ma Registered User (4/4/02 8:27 pm) Reply	Quotes used to color perception Thank you for going into such length to try to explain what many have seen quoted, and because of such have gotten a particular impression of the leadership of Swami Kriyananda. I was hoping you were around and would address this. I think you made some excellent points. I know your explanation will not satisfy everyone, and that is the nature of a discussion board such as this. I can see why the Vedanta Society doesn't get involved in these go arounds, since they do tend to go on and on without much getting resolved. Still, I am enjoying the interchange, and I guess I'll continue to hang out until it feels like time to move on. I've talked about this previously on the board, about how when Sister Priya told me that people of Ananda asking for Kriya wanted to know why Swami Kriyananda wasn't part of the line of gurus, I good naturedly laughed out loud. "Sister, I don't know of any person at Ananda who feels that way!" I told her. Still, she was convinced of this position. I see people who use the above quotations we've been discussing as convinced that Swami Kriyananda wants to be like a guru, and that he is power hungry, etc. All I know is that the people I've met from Ananda have impressed me with their love for God and Guru, and that they honor their teacher, who has accomplished much as a leader of their community. The depth of the community and what it has to offer continues to impress me as well. Why do things get goofy? It really seems like there is plenty of room for us all to get along, with no need to put each other down. I do know that I feel love and support from my SRF friends and my Ananda friends, and I wish to give my love and support to all who are doing their best to seek God first in their lives, with no regard to outward affiliations.
pschuppe Registered User (4/4/02 8:54 pm) Reply	Re: Quotes used to color perception -------------- I do know that I feel love and support from my SRF friends and my Ananda friends, and I wish to give my love and support to all who are doing their best to seek God first in their lives, with no regard to outward affiliations. -------------- Sounds like the right idea to me! ps
David Deep Registered User (4/5/02 12:57 am) Reply	Re: An interesting website pschuppe writes (quote): "I've never heard him say or even imply either of the things you mention that that website apparently quotes him as having said. (I went there but couldn't find where you read those things.) He wouldn't, because to do so would be a denial of everything he's dedicated his life to, which is being a disciple of Master". (end quote) Doublespeak? Spin? What then is Kriyananda implying when he says: "Yes, you can "go straight to Master," or to any other master in our line of gurus. Try it, please, if you like. See if they will accept you. Others have done so, however, and I have yet to see one of them flourish. But you are always free to go where you like, and to follow whom you like". Kriyananda's implication is obvious. If you "go straight to Master, or any other Master in our line of gurus"----you will not flourish. Beware, you will fail if you bypass Kriyananda! And don't forget, others have tried and not one of them has flourished. I repeat, not one, according to Kriyananda, has flourished by going directly to the Masters. Even though the Master said the seeker does not go through an "agent" or intermediary--but straight to the Guru. Kriyananda's implication is frightening. Now are you "hearing" the "implication"? One can attempt to gray-shade the canvass and rationalize the "instrument" with all sorts of intellectual gobbly-gook; But does this not send the seeker deeper into the murky water of confusion and denial? And this has nothing to do with feeble attempts at downplaying the lessons. "These lessons are not to be considered as ordinary correspondence course lessons, for they are impregnated with the spirit of great Masters. If you study them with reverence and deep attention, along with the practice of deep meditation, you will be in touch with the divine link of our Masters, and will be lifted into the kingdom of Cosmic Consciousness." Paramahansa Yogananda
pschuppe Registered User (4/5/02 8:42 am) Reply	Re: An interesting website Quote: -------------------- Kriyananda's implication is obvious. If you "go straight to Master, or any other Master in our line of gurus"----you will not flourish. Beware, you will fail if you bypass Kriyananda! And don't forget, others have tried and not one of them has flourished. I repeat, not one, according to Kriyananda, has flourished by going directly to the Masters. Even though the Master said the seeker does not go through an "agent" or intermediary--but straight to the Guru. Kriyananda's implication is frightening. Now are you "hearing" the "implication"? One can attempt to gray-shade the canvass and rationalize the "instrument" with all sorts of intellectual gobbly-gook; But does this not send the seeker deeper into the murky water of confusion and denial? -------------------- His "implication" isn't obvious at all. His implication comes from knowing the context that he wrote from at Ananda. You can't get that in a neat little sound-byte, dear to your heart though it is. The points are also subtle, not easy to generalize about. The reality of Ananda is also a living one, not something that can be quickly summarized in a few paragraphs. Here's my attempt, incomplete though it will be: Because that letter was written to Ananda members, he was addressing their lives at Ananda. The fact is that for people to live at Ananda it is important that they feel some connection to Kriyananda. (Another way to say that would be: his life and service to Master has to be somehow relevant to them individually.) How they define that connection is an individual thing. But to try to live here and flourish without it isn't realistic. Again, he was writing to Ananda members. If you try to take it out of that context and make it into a universal statement, it doesn't apply. It's a question of spiritual connection to an active lineage. In the case of Ananda, that lineage comes through Kriyananda. Doesn't mean his picture is on the altar. Every direct disciple shows another facet of Master to others, especially, and the more so if they try to share his grace with others. There just aren't very many of them around any more. Who are you going to tune into for guidance or to see a living example of what Master was like? Maybe you don't feel the need for that. I've found it helpful. I found it helpful to visit and spend time with several others, among them Yogacharya Black, Roy E. Davis, Peggy Deitz, Hare Krishna Ghosh. Spiritual growth also comes through magnetism, not just technique. Hence my reference to how people can misinterpret lessons and books. Why didn't Master give out Kriya in the AY? Because there's a specific human need for contact and personalization. And because being around people who've lived these teachings helps magnetize others who are trying to practice them successfully. You can theoretically learn to fly a jet airplane from book too. I just wouldn't want to be on it. Part of the broader context of Kriyananda's comment was the fact that in the past when people left Ananda, for the most part they started living "normal" lives again. Not much selfless service to any cause beyond their private concerns, and a little meditation thrown in. Whether or not they've "flourished" isn't for me to decide. However, having met a few of them over the years, it doesn't look to me like many of them have. The ones who have, in my experience, flourished, have been those who felt more in tune with another path or teacher altogether, and actively started serving that work. In any case, one of the primary reasons people shine in any spiritual context is because of active, positive, selfless service to the light they receive from it. Our culture, shall we say, doesn't exactly offer constant support or endless opportunities for that kind of service; so most people who leave that flow of active service don't get into it again to the same degree. There aren't very many people who can go to God directly and receive his guidance and grace in meditation or vision. If you are one who can, more power to you. His warning was to others who aren't on that level. How about this sound byte: "When virtue declines and vice predominiates, I incarnate again. . . . " Bhagavad Gita Why would there be a need for God to re-incarnate one of the great ones in a new form? Why, for example, have we lost touch with the grace that Jesus Christ brought? Wasn't he an Avatar? If your quote represents final, absolute truth, then there shouldn't have been a need for more than one Avatar throughout history. Everyone could tune into him/her. It helps to be with living saints and Avatars. By extension, it helps to be with living disciples of those Avatars. ps
Pig Ma Registered User (4/5/02 9:33 am) Reply	Re: An interesting website David Deep, I've seen this happen elsewhere, when someone takes a quote which "proves" their point, and then sticks with that through thick and thin. Despite lots of evidence to the contrary that proves exactly the opposite of what you propose, you rest your case. Final. Nothing more need be said. You are convinced. I appreciate the dialogue it has generated, because I can see pschuppe's angle on this. So you are happier outside of Ananda, and there are those who are happier within. And those who are within are performing a great service of love and outreach to people with many different needs. That is something I can say from personal experience.
Spirit88 Registered User (4/13/02 8:28 pm) Reply	Re: Ananda on the SRFWalrus Board I do no harm nor do I support those who would do harm. Edited by: Spirit88 at: 4/18/02 9:23:45 am
username Registered User (4/14/02 7:20 am) Reply	Re: Ananda on the SRFWalrus Board Maybe some people live at Ananda because they like living in a "community" type situation, or they think the land there is beautiful, or they think it is a safe place to raise children, or they are able to afford to live there. Does anyone really know the exact reasons every single member of Ananda is living at Ananda? Do they all go to church on sunday? Are they all doing kriya yoga? Or any type of yoga for that matter? What if someone was into kriya yoga and built a house, and then they decided that kriya was not their path, do they still have property rights? or does the church take away their home? So, maybe not everyone is at ananda because of a connection with Kriyananda as a spiritual leader, maybe they are impressed with his ability to build sustainable communities and don't really care whether he has sex or not.
redpurusha Registered User (4/14/02 10:00 am) Reply	Re: Ananda on the SRFWalrus Board "The true purpose of life is to know God.Wordly temptations were given you to help you develop discrimination: Will you prefer sense pleasures, or will you choose God? Pleasures seem alluring at first, but if you choose them, sooner or later you will find yourself enmeshed in endless troubles and difficulties." -from The Essence of Self-Realization (JDW)
username Registered User (4/14/02 2:04 pm) Reply	Re: Ananda on the SRFWalrus Board I think you found the new advertising campaign for Hagandass. Ice cream or God. Ice cream will win 90% of the time. Sex or God? If you are a man in your 20's - sex will probably win, a woman in her 60's - maybe god will win. But it really has to do with hormones, not will power. When you age your senses decrease, so sense pleasures are less of a temptation. In olden times, you probably died before your senses declined.

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