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SRF Walrus

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SRF Walrus > Householder vs. Monastic > what happens to ex monastic's why don't they open reatreats
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moyma Registered User (3/27/04 9:51 am) Reply	Re: Laughing and laughing, another question/a quick aside soul circle......your posts are long and rambling and most of the time I haven't a clue what you are talking about....there is some sweetness there but Geez! .......You have to communicate so people know what your saying otherwise it's worthless. things are not that bad and if they are then so what? you haven't found your peace with god so this world seems like a ugly place. Fight the battles you can win ! !!!!you sound like just another depressed soul. don't get too caught up in the show....the only reason it is here is so YOU can find God. thats it !! the end !! all the rest doesn't matter.
soulcircle (3/27/04 6:38 pm) Reply	finding Goddess sounds like the fish surrounded by water, seeking water
didgeridootoo (3/27/04 8:40 pm) Reply	Re: Laughing and laughing, another question/a quick aside moyma, Soulcircles posts, at least to me, are wonderful, meaningful, and easy to understand. I saw nothing in them which led me to believe that he has not found his peace with God or that the world appears ugly to him or even that he is depressed. As far as taking care of others by helping them, feeding them, etc. that is called "karma yoga", and in doing karma yoga you do everything for the Lord, and in so doing you can become liberated. Soulcircle has found a wonderful path in helping others, and if we all did that, what a better world this would be. Plus, a hungry person does not think of God very often. SRF never did much to help the poor, but some organizations have done wonders--especially if they give without expecting to receive, that is, without expecting those to whom they give to to join their religion. If I were starving, and you asked me if I preferred food over bliss, I would say give me food.
didgeridootoo (3/27/04 8:42 pm) Reply	Re: Laughing and laughing, another question/a quick aside Then after I have been fed, perhaps I can then sit and meditate upon God and find bliss.
moyma Registered User (3/28/04 4:27 pm) Reply	Re: Laughing and laughing, another question/a quick aside everyone seems to think I' m knocking charity and I am not . fine, everybody go out and feed the hungry... make it your life mission.....the come back and tell me that all life's problems will be solved..... that's what your all saying and it isn't true!!!! you push one problem down here and another pops up over here.......the real solutions are on the inside!!!!! ... Look at judus and what he thought jesus came to this earth for......sure, you will take care of a lot of problems feeding the hungry . But take a good look at most hungry people, there problem is alot deeper than just food....people starve in Africa because of greed. people are hungry because of selfishness for the most part...... you take care of that and you will take care of hunger......IT's kind of like all the desire's locked in the spine .....you will never get there buy fixing them one at a time....you need a stronger magnatism YES! do acts of charity feed the hungry But if you think that will solve our problems you are mistaken , soulcircle some of what you say is very sweet ....... I am not trying to knock you but I get only about half of what you say...... . I"M glad other people get everything you say but I don't so Make it plain for me....So you give to charities and feed the poor , if thats what your saying that's great !!!!! live your life for other people. thats what it is all about...... but witch is better ??? That was the question..... there shouldn't be any question in any of your minds that giving realization is better than giving someone food. It's like trying to cure suicide buy simply taking the Knife away.... and thinking you have found the cure for it.......It just doesn't work that way. you all think like men, if there is a problem ......then by this line of reason we will take care of it....and it doesn't work like that !
didgeridootoo (3/28/04 7:27 pm) Reply	Re: Laughing and laughing, another question/a quick aside moyma, I think it is wonderful that you want everyone to learn to meditate and to find God through meditation, but what assurance does a person have that he would ever find God through meditation? What is it about meditation that is necessary that would cause one to be able to experience God or to even experience your oneness with God? As Christ said, "You will always have the poor with you," but he also said in regards to charity, "When you do the lest to one of these, you are doing it to me." People starve because of greed from other people. What should we do for those in countries who are starving due to famine or due to a loss of a job, or because they are insane and can't find work, or too old and no one will hire them? And on and on. Do we just give them a mantra and tell them to meditate upon it? Do you really think that you can give someone realization just because you have given them a mantra? Doesn't it take more than that? Can a hungry person concentrate enough to even be able to meditate? Can an insane person? Or someone who is ill? And on and on. And how can you expect a Christian or Muslim, etc. to even desire to meditate when they believe it to be a sin? I agree with you that giving realization is better, but how do you expect to give everyone realization? I didn't realize that we all "think like men." I have never been aware that men have a difference of opinion when it comes to these matters, nor more than women. Many charity workers are women. And we all know that we cannot cure the problem of hunger in the world.
moyma Registered User (3/28/04 10:08 pm) Reply	Re: Laughing and laughing, another question/a quick aside I agree with just about every thing you say.....You are right you have to give on the level that you are on. If all you have is food then yes, give it. I' don't mean to say you shouldn't give all you can away.... indeed .what good would a mantra do....... My meaning was pointed not at the hungry person but at the giver. You meditating , You trying to find God and doing what you think is right is the way out.that changes things, No effort is wasted....But if you give that up and adopt some outward cause, just to serve people then this whole world loses. You state all these problems that you can't win....yes they are real problems . but stating a problem is not going to give it a solution....should you fix all the things you stated, there would be a new list.The only way out is thru meditaton the only real way to change people is thru changing yourself and by praying for others....I'm saying fight the battles you can win..You give others realization by changing yourself.... By getting rid of your greed ....change yourself and you will change thousands I think is how the saying goes...... what I mean is that a woman just feels there way thru a thing where a man goes with a reason....then another ....always thinking that if I can give a reasonable way out. all will be taken care of ... Sorry about preaching at you I"m sure we probably agree on just about all this stuff . But I always get caught thinking that if I do this outward thing our that outward thing. everything will be ok.and really ,....All I need to do is relax and meditate deeper.....this is Gods world it is here only for my realization. And if you really are seeking him then it will workout .It is a big trap thinking something is not right with the world. and your cause is to fix it...... rather than going inside..... Yes you have to live for others thru service, that is the right way. But without meditation then it's just some good karma....You can get there by karma yoga ,if you meditate, but Master said something very interesting....No body was made a saint by the western monastic orders.....and there disaplines to find God..... He said that if they were saints it was some.thing that they brought with them from the past....Its all outward stuff kneeling etc. etc. Master said that no meditation is wasted .there really isn't another choice if you can meditate.....and if you can't then bring him your failure.....There isn't really another choice for us . thanks for sharing....
didgeridootoo (3/29/04 5:49 am) Reply	Re: Laughing and laughing, another question/a quick aside I agrre with you that meditation is important, but "love" is more important. There are very many people who meditate and then turn around and committ crimes of one sort or another. If you have love, you have everything. If you then use your love for the benefit of others, that is wonderful. No one is really assured of reaching liberation through meditation. In order to reach God you need to purify the mind, not just through meditation, but through love, through doing what is right in life. Some meditate without taking into consideration what is right and wrong to do, and so do as they please, and when they do this they can cause harm to themselves and meditation becomes unfruitful. So along the line of what you said here is the Buddhist prayer to repeat: May I be filled with loving-kindness. May I be well. May I be peaceful and at ease. May I be happy. You practice this for a number of weeks, then you change it to May he/she be filled, etc. He says you begin with yourself because you must first love yourself before you can love others. Sometimes, I feel if a person is too much into themselves, not in the way that the above prayer is talking about, if they went out and helped others, they would get out of themselves and learn to love others. Never think that men are just reasoning beings. Men have the same feelings as you have. Men can become just as emotional in a relationship, etc. If you ever sat and talked with different men on many different subjects and levels you would learn this. Yes, there are men who are not much into their emotions, but that is not always the case, not even remotely. Women also are very reasoning. I have seen men become just as emotional as women over the same types of issues--love, loss of love, and on and on. As we age, we tend to have more of a balance of male/female qualities. If you have only been around men who just reason, then that can become quit impossible to deal with because often they don't take your emotions into consideration and just try to reason with you.
soulcircle (3/29/04 7:28 am) Reply	Am I clear? Hi Guests, moyma and All, Some will sit in Himalayan caves or chiefly meditate a lot of their lives and hours daily, or whenever free from action Some will work for justice, education, jobs and community and keep the world limping along Some will do both. To REPEAT: AND some people practice yoga AND serve others frequently key word ...AND AND some people that serve others do it primarily to transform themselves in the giving AND some people like me do not expect to change the world in random acts of kindness I just believe in kindness and don't let this dog eat dog, militaristic world change me I am confused that you apply your following quote so broadly: *Quote:* fine, everybody go out and feed the hungry... make it your life mission.....the come back and tell me that all life's problems will be solved And again you confused me, saying that you read what I wrote and still think that I don't share meals AND meditate, when among many I even mention Giri Bala, a yogini with an entire chapter of the Autobiography of a Yogi devoted solely to her. *Quote:* You meditating , You trying to find God and doing what you think is right is the way out.that changes things, No effort is wasted....But if you give that up ... You are right that it is good not to give up our "inner search," that you even harbor the thought that I give up Bliss is confusing/amusing to me. I have bliss, I took a belief in Goddess to direct personal experience, and as Giri Bala practice yoga AND my feeling of compassion and oneness with all. You may find me not adding much more to this thread, anything you write I will be reading and listening to, to see if you insist that, or even imply that I have given up the spiritual life and to see how life is going for moyma, a friend and an example a seeking individual who surely will "find" Goddess. Am I clear? It is possible to love a divine great spirit as Mother Teresa did, AND to be amongst any in need because for me, loving others, transforms me, changing the world I leave to others with greater ambitions and abilities! You know how I was doing this in one case over 20 years ago? One of my biological sisters was down and out, living on the street, as you say, she had burned herself out and lost her health ---helping people, the poor and minorities, stray animals, and she herself ended up destitute and homeless. My biological sister. At that time in my life I was learning about Mother Teresa and I heard in a talk of hers, that we all have someone in our own families who is sad or alone or ill. She said the following, "Begin there, and do something small with great love." For quite awhile I pictured my sister, when I thought of her, in light, love and strength, with our family again, with friends and health. I did something small with great love My sister is now happily married, gardens and lives in the country, is assistant director of a thousand acre nature preserve in Ohio, serves social causes and has friends and health. Many need to really focus without distraction on sadhana. I believe you are saying that. I agree. From 1979 to 1996 I lived almost as you may be describing, "finding" Goddess first in the biblical sense. Yet as I look back I was doing things like the paragraph about my sister as well. So that is why I call you friend and a great example moyma. I believe I understand you. Now I am not seeking, I AM. Goddess gets me up in the morning, keeps me up at night writing in here, and tickles me silly. Oh, and I should mention, Goddess brings didgeridootoo and you into my life!! She even loves my many faults and I forgive her for creating this school of hardknocks, or to put it simply, this world where our generation and others grew up in fear of seeing the world nuked, a world where today as we post, thirty, close to forty thousand children die from hunger and hunger related deaths, ~~DAILY~~ Yet as the first yogi I met in the 60's said, "There are flowers and children being born and there are times to celebrate and have thanks." I am thankful for this board Thank You Walrus Thank You didgeridootoo Thank You moyma soulcircle Edited by: soulcircle at: 3/29/04 7:34 am
moyma Registered User (3/29/04 11:26 am) Reply	Re: Am I clear? soul circle I think we now understand each other perfectly thanks for making it "PLAIN" for me. I never doubted that you were sincerce .....I think that last post everybody got....thanks . yes love is the key....the thought that someone could actully meditate without it never even entered my mind...thanks for pointing that out to me didgeredoo..... this was not intended to be a personnal attack on either of you....I think things got lost in translation...I couldn't believe that master's cella would say that the west's problems were not spiritual..... thats what started this whole thing for me . I saw a picture once of a staving kid sitting in front of a fat storekeeper with all this food around and it made me sick to my stomach.how can that not be a spiritual problem ? thanks for going with me this far......I also think I"M done here...
didgeridootoo (3/29/04 5:04 pm) Reply	Re: Am I clear? Thank you moyma and soulcircle for the beautiful posts. I don't think that I have any more to add to this thread either. You both said it all.
soulcircle (3/29/04 7:48 pm) Reply	Ah HA! You're both welcome and deserving. Edited by: soulcircle at: 3/29/04 7:48 pm
redpurusha Registered User (3/30/04 12:47 pm) Reply	Re: Laughing and laughing, another question/a quick aside Jesus throws this into the mix: "It is written: 'Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.' -Matthew 4:4 Going along this teaching, both food and bliss (ecstasy/energy tapped from God) are vital to a healthy existence. Food is one source of energy, God is another. Enjoy both.
didgeridootoo (3/30/04 6:00 pm) Reply	Re: Laughing and laughing, another question/a quick aside That is interesting that you brought up that scripture Redpurusha, because I was reading in one of the Upanishads where it said something similiar, but instead said that man does not live by breath alone. I wish I remembered where I saw that.
didgeridootoo (3/31/04 7:13 am) Reply	Re: Laughing and laughing, another question/a quick aside I just found the scripture. It is in the Katha Upanishad, and it reads: "Man does not live by breath alone, but by him in whom is the power of breath." That is almost the same as what Jesus said, which leads me to believe that he had read the Upanishads.
Sydfrukter Registered User (9/12/05 9:39 am) Reply	What happens to ex monastics who don't open reatreats? Ave all. Some ex monastics may feel they are bad because they have sex drives, have invested their worth in the SRF cause, and deeply lack in self-acceptance. They should strive to strut better, too. SRF seldom or hardly teaches its novices that autonomy of Self is great, as a regular part of the SRF doctrine. There could be more stuff here along that vein, also from upanishads. Otherwise important parts of the whole yoga message are shrunk, or worse.

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