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SRF Walrus > Householder vs. Monastic > Householder - monastic
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Rei Beyrut Registered User (2/15/02 11:23 am) Reply	Householder - monastic You get so utterly different advice on what lifestyle is better suited to advance you spiritually. I guess not even Master himself was very clear on this subject. At some instances he said: there is no real difference - you just advance faster as a monastic (quote by JDW), while in the original AY he says that to lead one's life as a Karma Yogi is indeed the higher path. I therefore posted the question on the hypocrit site (yogananda.net) and got swamped by a flood of be-nice-everything-works-no-difference-answers which I abhor. I cannot believe it's all the same, and somehow I believe that facing all the trouble that monastic lifestyle seems to engender is what advances you the most. Can you second that or do you think monastic life is just a big hoax?
Monk No Longer Unregistered User (2/15/02 4:33 pm) Reply	Householder or Monastic? Read the postings on this board about what life is truly like inside, not just for novice monastics, but at the core of the SRF organization. People inside the ashram are just people. All the way up. There is nothing magical about the monastic life that will get you to God faster. In fact, the deviations into organizational power politics and the abusive psychological environment will only hold you back. So blow away the monastic myth in your own mind if you can. Unfortunately, many of us have to work it out the hard way! You can't find God while compromising your own integrity on a daily basis, but this is what you are asked to do in SRF ashrams. They will not admit this publicly, but I was there for a long time and had many heart-to-heart talks with senior monastics in which they privately admit that behavior at the highest levels is not at all what they would have us believe in their publications and press releases (what they call "Outreach"). I finally reached the point where I could look at monasticism for what it is rather than what I wanted it to be. This is crucial, and was a real turning point for me. What I saw on the inside of the monastic lifestyle convinced me that I no longer believe in monasticism. See the postings elsewhere on this board about the true meaning and purpose of sannyas and its place in the human life-cycle. The masters may successfully embrace the sannyasi state earlier in life than others because they are masters: Shankara, Sri Yukteswar, PY, etc. This is far less successful for the rest of us because at a fundamental level, appearing to be a sannyasi outwardly when we are not one inwardly creates a psychological-spiritual conflict that holds us back. I too entered the ashram because I thought that was where people could make the most spiritual progress. I was wrong. And this is not limited to SRF. I am convinced this applies to monasticism in general, and Lahiri Mahasaya discouraged people from embracing sannyas before they were ready long before the SRF monastic order even existed. Master never intended for SRF monasticism to take the road it has, not did he intend for his organization to be hijacked by a Kali Yuga monastic mindset. So the real question is: Do you want Self-realization, or do you want to become a part of the SRF problem and then have to go through all of the trauma of working through the monastic issue the hard way? The path to God is all about giving Him your heart, your integrity, your good and your bad, your life. It is not about SRF, nor is it about monasticism, unless this is something you need to work through for yourself, as I did. Best wishes!
Rei Beyrut Registered User (2/16/02 8:02 am) Reply	Re: Householder or Monastic? Monk-no-longer, Thank you so much. This was the clearest statement on the issue I have ever obtained! All the best.
monky Unregistered User (3/7/02 11:56 pm) Reply	Monastic life? I have been a monk for a dozen years and before that a devoted SRFer for the same time. It's late at night and maybe I won't make much sense but here are my two cents: In my opinion monks have much more time to work on their sadhana. Nobody can deny that!. In that sense one has more organizational opportunity, no worries about cooking, cars, taxes, kids, etc. Can really read the Lessons, practice Kriya, and try to behave. But at the same time it is a great trap and I haven’t seen a monk so far (perhaps 4 or 5 got close) who actually avoided it. Why a trap? Few, very few have the stamina of really living that life, especially as outlined in SRF ashrams for so many years. If they get close usually it is accompained by a good degree of spiritual pride and arrogance. The organization becomes often the focus instead of inner spiritual life. Another problem is the separation from society, the latter has an important role to play in keeping people real and answerable. Most monks would ‘transcend’ any big problem, let the world rot basically! Forgetting that they would ‘adorn a higher world like Hiranyaloka if they didn’t need this one.” Few really know how to meditate deeply, master Kriya and the currents and get ‘results’, if someone did it didn't pass it along or train others. What they preach is basically: live your life as a monk and God and Guru will free you at the end. {thanks a lot, that is what the Christian churches profess!] In the male ashrams there was very little brotherhood. Everyone walking on eggshells, which for people separated from the world can cause huge problems in retaining a healthy mental/emotional equilibrium, at the same time they will always wear a beautiful inspired, humble smile when needed or outside their room's door. The monks have fear to freely ask questions and touch touchy subjects. In short it is pretty fake in many ways and it definitely affects one’s spiritual advancement. Maybe I could go on but I have not time. I think it is important to remember that it is not this role or that role really, that does it. It is what one puts into it. Most monks miss the point, most lay-disciples do the same. Please, let's respect monastics but DO NOT MAKE THEM INTO SAINTS!! They are not even close REALLY, I swear, I have been there. Overall I think it would be good for many to live a monastic life for a couple of years, as a way of concentrating and focusing on what it is important but then move on, use that acquired experience in life and in the process test and change your self and the world around you. To a higher degree that 's what avatars do!
Newboy Unregistered User (3/8/02 6:37 am) Reply	Thanks! Monky, Thanks for your honest and straightforward take on the monastic life. It's so easy for those of us on the outside to listen to the monks chanting on tape and begin projecting left and right! I've often wondered how the visiting ministers who lecture throughout the world deal with the adulation accorded them. I hope they understand that householder devotess love them as people first and appreciate their struggles, etc. I know I do. Once, when I was in a counseling session with a bramachari, I could see him struggling to answer my rather complicated question. I felt so bad for him that my own problems faded! This monk had the gumption to admit in a Q & A session that he had all but "given up on the AUM technique." I loved his honesty. One thing you said surprised me. You mentioned that most monks don't know how to meditate deeply. Why not? Does the service end of things take over that much? It seems that weekends would allow monastics to go deep. Of course what constitutes "going deep" in meditation? I've never quite figured that one out. Finally, are you still a monk? Namasté
Pig Ma Registered User (3/8/02 7:40 am) Reply	Re: Monastic life? Dear Monkey, Thanks for sharing a very beautiful post. It helped me to be forgiving of my sadhana, with it's up and downs. The struggle is there for all of us, no matter which avenue we choose. But choose the spiritual path, I must, for it is my hope for a better life and a better world. I loved your name, and wanted to share a little story with you. I was one of the devotees who would prepare lunch once a month for the ministers at San Diego temple. My husband (not into SRF) would always say, "So it's your turn to make monkey chow today?" Edited by: Pig Ma at: 3/8/02 7:44:21 am
chota bhai Registered User (6/3/02 5:34 pm) Reply	Re: Monastic life? perhaps the question is not whether monastic life or householder life will serve you best. perhaps, considering each persons unique manifestation, the question is in which situation can you best serve God. not where would you like to operate, but where would God like to operate through you. every situation and every moment offer a unique sadhana. Divine Mother make me an instrument of Thy will
premdas Registered User (6/3/02 6:34 pm) Reply	Re: Monastic life? How about a new paradigm; householder/monastic, living for God alone, through the channel/lifestyle God gives us.... Sort of like the 3rd Order of Franciscans. It works for me and my friends. In Master, Premdas
RolandP Registered User (1/29/03 6:52 am) Reply	Re: Monastic life? I agree with premadas. Here's my addition. The householder path is often regarded to be inferior to the monastic / ascetic path. But scripture shows differently. Were not Rama and Sita married, or indeed Kirsha and Rhada not least Shiva and Parvatti! There are many paths. In my case, I sincerely wanted to be an ascetic. I had romantic ideas of spending my life wandering the himalayas. Before going to India fate side-tracked me to Morocco where I met my wife. Then we went to India together and that's when my spiritual journey began in earnest. Several years later I am blissfully married with a beautful child. People always comment to us on how wonderful our relationship is. This is the foundation for my search for God. I am no seer and do not claim to be advanced but I have learned that to view my wife as an aspect of Durga is an extremely good method of learning bhakti. My love for my family is offered to God as a manifestation of my love for God and subsequently to all things. By starting with the singular I now feel love for all! Had I not married then I would not have learned this. Even beyond that, what made me marry and live a house holder life was governed by forces beyond my control. The crunch point is GOD SENT MY WIFE TO ME. I have since had past life recall and yes we have spent many lifetime together. We are sould mates. The moral of this story is there is no such thing as the best path - there is only the best path for ourselves.
RolandP Registered User (1/29/03 7:31 am) Reply	Re: Monastic life? Of course, I forgot the obvious: More than one of the Kriya masters were also householders!

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