what happens to ex monastic's why don't they open reatreats

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SRF Walrus > Householder vs. Monastic > what happens to ex monastic's why don't they open reatreats
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moyma New User (3/6/04 4:55 pm) Reply	what happens to ex monastic's why don't they open reatreats I have always wondered why ex monastics from SRF never start there own retreats or communities..... with all the garbage yoga that is out there it would seem only fitting that people that have left SRF for one reason or another could really serve master's mission by starting there own yoga retreats. Teaching the basic's of yoga plus energization. seems like it would be a natural fit.there are yoga retreats everywhere but none run by disciples of master . there is Ananda and Roy Eugene but they are more of a Kriya ministry. those 40 monastics that left SRF over the last three years could really change the landscape of yoga in the USA. let alone the world if they would have all decided to come out and teach.....I'd go to a retreat like that !
KS Registered User (3/6/04 8:14 pm) Reply	Re: what happens to ex monastic's why don't they open reatre The number that have left in the last three years is probably now closer to 50 than 40. On and on it goes. Remember that 99% of all monastics and employees leave the SRF cult. Unfortunately the legacy of SRF is that they often turn these dedicated and sincere people away from Master and often even God completely. I think you underestimate the overall impact of the SRF cult. It morally corrupts and strains every last ounce of self-esteem out of the people who get close. It can and does take employees and monastics years to recover. Once they do recover the last thing they want is to start up a yoga organization! Most come out with of the experience with very few skills but some do see themselves as some kind of counselor or spiritual helper. You can search the web and even the Walrus web links section for examples of some of the ex-monastics that have broken the mold and continued in a spiritual life of some kind. Some even give classes.
moyma New User (3/7/04 11:27 am) Reply	Re: what happens to ex monastic's why don't they open reatre I gueuss I don't get it . the few that I have read on this site seemed to want to fight back and realized that the SRF org is not the be all end all of everything. I gueuss alot of it has to do with where you start. if you came into srf young and had them train you all about master, I could see why you would want to jump ship. but alot of the ones that have left seem to be good strong devottes.just really sick of the organization. what better way to strike back than to start something on your own. I find it hard to believe they would just give it all up.at least, not the ones I have seen on this board.
ugizralrite (3/7/04 2:11 pm) Reply	Re:what happens to ex monastics why don't they open retreats Apparently if God wanted to make it easy to find the ultimate meaning of life and the key to eternal peace and happiness, then there wouldn't be all this confusion. The ability to receive truth is just as rare as the ability to express truth. It is really a great struggle for all concerned, but the rewards and outcome have no equal. There is a battle for truth going on right here with the evaluation of Yogananda and his legacy. We who have tested his teachings are willing to share, but those who are willing to participate are few of late. Nothing can be done about this situation except to go forward with sincerity and without tension and discouragement. It is a game, an entertainment for the soul, nothing other than that. Come on in, the water's fine. Edited by: ugizralrite at: 3/7/04 2:12 pm
KS Registered User (3/7/04 3:20 pm) Reply	Re: Re:what happens to ex monastics why don't they open retr I think one of the lessons here is that you don't need to find God through others or through organizations. You don't need them. That is old school, old ways. Cult thinking. Religion is an individual thing. There are billions of paths to God and you need to make an effort to find yours. God is showing SRF people this truth very directly by their experiences with that organization. People create organizations, ego - power- money creates problems and so on. It is not necessary. Why do you think they should start little mini-SRFs? You have access to the same truths they do. Your own experiences help you to understand how they apply to your own life better than some outsiders. Look directly to God. You don't need a middle man.
moyma New User (3/8/04 8:10 am) Reply	Re: Re:what happens to ex monastics why don't they open retr Little mini SRF's ?.....sounds like something you would eat. What a concept. the reason I made the suggestion was it seemed to me these people would be the one;s to break the mold.they have seen the bad side ..... I got about 6 adds on this message board for yoga retreats in about 2min. yesterday. none of them offers what master does.... and none of them ever will unless people decide to serve in this way. I know lots of people that have left SRF for one reason or another .most either go to ananda or have nothing to due with it anymore.there are a number of retreats stared by people that have left ananda over the last few years . You have to find a way to serve, I don't think you can get there on your own.fellowship does not mean organization.... we don't live in a bubble.I think we need to act as if the organization wasn't there. yes it prints the lessons and the books and offers kriya but to reach out to people ?they don't do that .even the center's don't want you to mix and have satssang.....maybe a social every 3 months.....wow !SRf seems to offer monkhood or be damned and they seem to run the centers the same way.there is lots more to a tree than a tap root.I still think it's a good Idea, they can't all be totally burned out on serving master ?
MastersChela Registered User (3/8/04 10:00 am) Reply	Re: Re:what happens to ex monastics why don't they open retr *Quote:* they can't all be totally burned out on serving master ? This may seem somewhat off-topic, but I've been thinking about this pretty heavily and I wanted to know what others think about this: I've attended a few services at a local Catholic Church recently, because it's a church dedicated to St. Francis, and I've been trying to tune into his energy. My question has to do with Service. Catholics use the verse "Anytime you did this to the smallest of my Brothers, you did it to me" or (that's not a perfect quote). They serve Christ by serving the poor. They reach out to the most needy in the community through foodbanks, shelters for abused women, and providing a place for homeless people to get out of the weather and be safe at night. We in Master's work (SRF or Ananda) difine service as doing stuff for the Church or other devotees. Does SRF need our manpower? Yes, of course they do, but what about those who are deeply in need of the basics in life? Why don't we consider them? What do others think of this?
ugizralrite (3/8/04 10:17 am) Reply	Re: Compassion Good suggestion. Get to know some down and out people by living with them for awhile. Try to give them a hand. Think about their situation. Ask God why things are this way. Your sorrow will be healed and they will be helped. Retreats: Take yourself on an astral retreat by filling your life with art and music which serve to express the world through your heart. Take yourself on a causal retreat by stretching your mind to the edges of space and into the microscopic filaments of the earth. Strive to see God in all things. No one can do these things for you, but there are an abundance of teachers and books on the arts and philosophy. Retreat from a life of indifference. Heaven is a thing to be seized now and not after death.
moyma New User (3/9/04 7:55 am) Reply	Re: Re:what happens to ex monastics why don't they open retr I think it's because giving someone this teaching is about the highest darmic thing you can do.just about every church has something set up to help those in need...... food ,clothing ,shelter. even master said that we should pick a charity and give to it.But giving someone the key to there soul.....thats some good karma.Anger , resentment all the negative emotions are what really destroy people.master brought a way out ,so did Jesus. except now we have so many people who are OK on the material level and have nothing else.This country's problems are not on the material level. like it is in other countries.....Thats why I thought that these ex monastics could really do something positive by doing retreats and that sort of thing. But I think KS is probably right . ... witch I hate to admit. These people are probably so burnt out and fed up with any type of org. they may never get back into this path.......and that is really sad. Its one thing to leave and take something with you and it's something else to have your life destroyed by trying to do the right thing.......doesn't seem quite right does it ?
ranger20 (3/9/04 8:49 am) Reply	Re: Re:what happens to ex monastics why don't they open retr *Quote:* We in Master's work (SRF or Ananda) difine service as doing stuff for the Church or other devotees. Does SRF need our manpower? Yes, of course they do, but what about those who are deeply in need of the basics in life? Why don't we consider them? This is a point very well taken. Compassion and trusting one's heart may get lip service in SRF, but you do not see it much except in the initiative of some individuals. Having come this far, what is to stop any of us from paying attention to what's around us, and responding according to our individual abilities and initiative? Anyone who thinks that the best way to serve life in the world is just to give their time and money to SRF...hmmm...well, they probably have some more stuff to go through.
MastersChela Registered User (3/9/04 11:31 am) Reply	This country's problems *Quote:* except now we have so many people who are OK on the material level and have nothing else.This country's problems are not on the material level. This may be your perception, friend, but it's not true at all. We in America might be better adept at hiding the homeless or the destitute than say Calcutta, India... But don't think they're "not a problem." We have more homeless than any other developed nation on earth. We have a greater concentration of wealth in the hands of a very few than any other nation. Bill Gates is the richest man on earth. That's richer than Prince Charles, richer than the House of Saud, richer than the Rothchilds... I grew up in a poor, rural area in central Michigan. There were people there who lived in a campground YEAR ROUND. They lived in little trailers with no running water or electricity. And if you've never been through a midwest winter, let's just say it's COLD. I do see your point regarding giving people spiritual teachings. I agree that this is a good thing to do, and it's not as if the people doing service for SRF or Ananda are wasting their time. I give my hours to the church just as they do, and I feel good about doing it. The thing I'm saying is that do the people who aren't ready for the teachings right now... should they be excluded from our radar? We have the face of Christ at the center of our altars. Christ said to give everything you have to the poor. Master called St. Francis his "patron saint," and Francis brought his message to the poorest of the poor. He tended to the lepers and gave bread to hungry children when he himself had an empty stomach... Isn't saving a life by feeding a hungry stomach just as good a deed as feeding a hungry soul? Just questions for the discussion...
moyma Registered User (3/26/04 8:08 am) Reply	Re: This country's problems sorry it took so long to get back to you..... your last Question,about feeding a hungry stomach just as good as feeding a hungry soul.....I don"t think so....the only way things change is by changing the conscienceness of people, What good would it do the world to have a bunch of very full but unenlightend people? I'm not knocking the hungry here but you will not bring about change to yourself by some outward focus on charity unless or untill you can reconnect with God frist,.... "seek ye frist the kingdom........"should we feed the hungry if we can ? ...of course !But you don't make the world rich by making yourself poor....Frist you tune into your source of all abundunce then feed the poor from that conscienceness ..... I also stand by the statement that this country's main problem is not material..... We have the wealth , like you said ....but we are too selfish to do anything good with it! granted living in a trailer may be harsh.....I'm not saying there life isn't terrible but compared to what ? Look at al the poor countries that don't have the matrial stuff..... they would love to live in a trailer our a tent , in a campground !You hit the nail on the head , we have the money but where is the conscieceness to go with it ?
soulcircle (3/26/04 3:22 pm) Reply	Re: vision of earth-based spirituality Hi Guests, moyma and All, BTW for what it's worth, I am updating my profile. I received an early-out retirement from the post office, and am active with non-profits, one on one with people and philanthrophy and of course Jason Becker. www.jasonbecker.com Perhaps it isn't always either or, or one first, then the other. Certainly my experience is my own and only tangentally related to others. For what it's worth, I like to see no one as other, I like my spirituality, inspired, tempered and balanced with service to the poorest of the poor. [ www.forthechildren.divine-mother.com/ ] Cynthia and I need help with the site and charityfocus.org may be giving us exceptional, freely offered help soon!! Sort of like simplicity, service community, and head in the clouds, to refresh, be happy, and of value when with the poorest of the poor, materially in all ways. So from the brain parts that aren't linear and in this post which is free-form ----and from my friendship with a family, the Erskines, who have loved and sheltered and loved 300 and more, not just with their open door---taking these three hundred into their hearts permanently, very often for stays in their home as needed, but in addition, long phone calls over a day or two too housing in one case, of a troubled teen IN their home at their dinner table for three years ----and from this same couple with 5 kids and 16 greandchildren, biologically ----this delighfully spiritual couple whose tandem lives of morning mediations and ceaseless labors/service, gold-mining and dharmic householders, during five or six days a week, and the sabbath in church fellowship ----this example of a delightful connection of simplicity and loving reflection and shared love (high thinking) ---in my life and theirs, I am almost able to actually see the healthy yoke joining inseparably the activists in community and the spiritually shining heart, seeking not first, or samadhi before community involement, and not charity before spiritual freedom yet seeking in harmonious balance, churning either the activist dyed in the ochre passion of compassion the "spiritual activist" celebrating "earth-based spirituality!!!" we might pass some valuable time at: www.starhawk.org/ and: www.vshiva.net/ two women, living lives of Gandhi, being the hope of this planet~~~ ___________________ *Quote:* Vision is the worlds most desperate need. There are no hopeless situations, only people who think hopelessly. ~~the book has a title close to Chicken Soup for the Soul for the Nurse ___________________ One love~~~~Vision uniting seemlessl activism and sadhana~~~ One circle unbroken~~~ Seemless harmony, being good and having fun Thank you each one for discussing life, sharing differing feelings and thought in our maturing and growing as we sip the richness of our kinship, Dave heypoet@aol.com> Edited by: soulcircle at: 3/27/04 12:47 am
ranger20 (3/26/04 3:49 pm) Reply	Re: This country's problems The original question was phrased as: Isn't saving a life by feeding a hungry stomach just as good a deed as feeding a hungry soul? More so. What good would it do the world to have a bunch of very full but unenlightend people? 1) Cut away a lot of the motive for global terrorism, crime, and attrocities, like some of the African civil wars. 2) Emulate the compassion of Yogananda who said he would return as long as there was a suffering brother by the side of the road. 3) Emulate Jesus: "love your neighbor as yourself." I do not thing he meant "as much as" yourself, which we really can't do from the illusion of seperateness, but "as your self" Wave and the ocean, which I think we can get, often just by paying attention. 4) Cut drastically the miasma of suffering that envelops the world right now. There's a lot of truth in John Donne's, "Do not send to know for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for thee." 5) Emulate the nobility of the Bodhisattva vow in Buddhism: "May I attain the awakened state for the benefit of all sentient beings." 6) Cover one's own ass. Make sure we're not among the "airplane route" people who have to take a poverty-stricken tour of duty to learn a little compassion. 7) Emulate the wisdon of St. Paul, who said (paraphrase), "without love, all your spiritual wisdom ain't worth jack sht." 8.0) Because I cannot spend any time with "have nots" without my hard heart melting a little bit. Wanting to do something, however little. And understanding very very very clearly that "deserving's got nothing to do with it." I think this is the kind of thing PY meant on one of the audio tapes when he said very forcefully, "I get so sick and tired of hearing westerners talk about karma!" 9) Because while "the poor we will always have with us," there is absolutely no excuse for the real destitution and suffering that seems an inevitable counterpoint to this country's prosperity. 10) Because homelessness is possible for almost any of is in this worsening economy, where millions of those who still manage to hang on to a seat in the middle class are just a paycheck or two away from disaster. It would really be annoying to wind up destitute outside one's center, listening to those inside chant "I am the Bubble." (actually, I've always found "I am the Bubble" annoying period, but I digress.) 11) Because none of us have "clean hands." I don't think wringing those hands is called for, but I do think viewing the suffering all around us with open awareness and an open heart is something I owe* to this world, as a little downpayment on a debt of gratitude I can never repay, for all the blessings I have received. That's enough for a start. Edited by: ranger20 at: 3/26/04 3:50 pm
soulcircle (3/26/04 8:10 pm) Reply	we do it to transform ourselves Hi Guests, ranger20 and All, Great thread All, There is a developing group that I have attended, that is leaderless, that is pointedly free of dogma, that serves and meditates and laughs alot. The wildfire of its inclusive embrace and welcome to all has spread around the world in free-form looseness. Some of the beauty--- BTW, I am speaking of www.charityfocus.org Some of the beauty of these comes in its combination of innocence and a keen comprehension of the following: *Quote:* The service we do IS to TRANSFORM ourselves, if there is benefit that ripples throughout the community, hence world, that is a secondary fruit!! In fact, when the idea that we are benefitting others comes up immediately the quote above seems to dance before our hearts as a no-brainer . Whether individuals with Charity Focus are bringing non-profits to the attention of the world through free web designing, to get them fully online, or whether individuals are taking their homemade soup and cookies and sitting down and slurping with homeless and poorest of the financially impaired, or whether they, like Wavy Gravy and Ram Dass, are bringing vision, literally sight to millions, unsung by mainstream media largely, the transformation going on, IS US. worth being a mantra as it has become with me in laughter and wise innocence the transformation going on is in me and another corollary, *Quote:* I am not doing this to change the world, but importantlly the world is not going to change who I am when I wrap a blanket around the hungry and support the Florence Nightgales, the Starhawks and Vandanna Shivas [the two websites I mention two posts above] when we support the Albert Schweitzer's of the world, we truly are not letting the world change who we are if we wish we can never own the idea that we are out doing service, vs. doing what truly helps ME we can never own the idea that we are about changing the world yet we are who we are, yes? need the world change who we are? moyma? KS? ugizralrite? MastersChela? ranger20? from my laugh of laughs, from my heart of hearts: *Quote:* Thank you each one for discussing life, sharing differing feelings and thoughts in our maturing and growing as we sip the richness of our kinship. Dave Edited by: soulcircle at: 3/27/04 12:52 am
soulcircle (3/26/04 8:28 pm) Reply	Jason Becker's simplicity In the end of the sixties, well before the Baptist/Seventh Day Adventists church was purchased in '74 by Richmond devotees including Kamala, her husband, Mrs. Repo, Bruce Turman, Al Fink, Gail and Paul Jarocki... In the sixties a young couple took their two toddlers and the whole neighborhoods kids often into the trees at the edge of the church and into the neighboring Wildcat Canyon's creek. Reading the AY in the sixties on the then Baptist/Seventh Day Adventists grounds and meditating there and by the creek when the kids and their two toddlers were safely occupied... Well, to cut to the chase... The older of their two toddlers, Jason Becker was quoted, two or three decades later in a book published in Finland in the following simplicity: *Quote:* When I feel for others first, with compassion, hope, forgiveness, charity/love I find good things come to me. This is the best meditation, the best religion. and thank you for allowing me to join in One love Jason, and friends and family, ranger 20, moyma, KS, ugizralrite, MastersChela and All, Dave Edited by: soulcircle at: 3/26/04 8:52 pm
moyma Registered User (3/26/04 9:37 pm) Reply	Re: Jason Becker's simplicity Don't miss the point here, One person finding God will change the world...... but so will an act of kindness....you guys have for the most part found your "Path" to God. you can't really seperate them . as cayce said..... lose your self in God find yourselve in service.....lose yourself in service, find yourself in God. they are one in the same .The west has forgotten the inner part and there is nothing higher than to return people to that inner source. A Yogi could sit in bliss in a trailer, How can a temporey dinner really do that much good to the spirit of a homeless man,? if you have your chioce what would you chose ?. bliss or a Dinner ? I know a man who got Kriya from master , ha said there was a women there who when she went up for a blessing asked for money.Master turned to rajasi and held out his hand and rajasi gave him a wad of money. then master gave it to her......The point here is you have to make the inner turn frist.....God will provide. Master was very much aganist welfare . He gave people something they could use, to benifit them on some level, food ice cream, a new carpet, whatever. What good would be done if he had become a doctor like he wanted to when he was a kid....Yeah some good would have come out of it but he chose the higher path,,,,We all make those choice's homeless or not......I see most people chose a cause because they can't commit to a spiritaul path. Have you ever noticed that ? The cause then becomes the Path. IT is always better to serve God frist. Ever worked with someone who just serves people? It can be really tough.....there is no room for God to come thru.....there is no trust and lots of confusion about what the person your serving wants.Sevice yes ! but it has to be God frist otherwise it is just some good karma.....One Rajasi in bliss will do alot more good then if he had decided to feed the hungry.Master fed the hungry. Often, but he had a larger mission and so does everyone else, find God
soulcircle (3/26/04 11:21 pm) Reply	why Hello Guests and All, A simple question: Why is it one or the other? Why? Am I a child amongst the wise? Do I need to grow up? Why is it one or the other? Why? Dave
soulcircle (3/26/04 11:35 pm) Reply	or--- Hi Guests and All, To be a tiger amongst the bliss children. For thirty years I enjoyed humming in the "sanctuaries," and to be honest A Heck of a lot of "opium," the bliss blindness of the religious and their wars and the planet teetering on ruin, two things have gotten this planet, the only one we have as a home to learn our lessons--- two things have gottn the planet to 2004, tottering as it is in disolution, but still alive for maybe the smaller half of us with flowers and children free of the refugee camps, war and abject poverty prayer and community community and prayer hand in hand, not one first, always hand in hand and as moyma said, in the optimium form as moyma started in the beginning of her post, inseparable, one in the same in community, in helpful transformation of ourselves via service in prayer, yet free of being far gone in opium and bliss bunnyship and the resulting "coldness" og the "temples!!" tigers prowl tigers of life and unrelenting compassion steeped in bliss steeped in renewed vision for the a cooperative and more nurturing world born amidst labours of great calamity tigers for life with hearts and vision prayers so deep that some would say claws never releasing the Goddess or---- am I the tiger of dharma, doing the battle both allegorical and real of the Gita of this millenium, of the Gita of ranger20 posts, the Gita of care and spirit the Gita of self-transformation at the same time as at the same time transformation of larger and smaller, inner and outer self----- the Gita of life and a community of nations versus empire communities of shared homemade bread and in our spiritual inner being and its communities of self acceptance, self love and natural humility to the touchdown of success in all your lives tiger of dharma for for life Dave Edited by: soulcircle at: 3/26/04 11:43 pm
soulcircle (3/27/04 12:12 am) Reply	Re: doesn't have time for dinner Hello Guests and All, Our lives of finding answers within our hearts, isn't life beautiful? Who searching for bliss for decades and lifetimes doesn't have time for dinner? From the general to the specific, one example, fasting. Fasting is wonderfully combined with the opportunity to serve the food available from the meal we don't partake, to those going hungry, this has been my lifelong practice. Who doesn't have time for giving that sustenance to one going without, and many times over the course of a live/s of sadhana? That one example can be broadened for a whole life such as Vandanna Shiva and Starhawk's. Mother Teresa Shirin Ebadi, the Iranian women who just won the Nobel Peace Prize Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Joan Baez Rosalyn and Jimmy Carter, in their fame they have time year in and out to teach Sunday school, drive nails with Habitat for Humanity, my daughter even met Jimmy and was complimented by him for her beauty, time for mediation Vinoba Bhave, the man Gandhi called, "teacher!" Gandhi George Washington Carver Robert Moses John Muir Rachel Carson we take time to smell the roses and to have a shared dinner hundreds of times over the course of our lives Luther Burbank recipient of the AY's dedication like Giri Bali, the subject of AY's Chapter 46 in its entireity don't have time for dinner? in Yogananda's story in the lessons, God opened heaven, God opened his heart to the man building a fence, NOT! to the ascetic who had proudly practiced meditation for the bulk of his eight decades and was favored by Narada another option moyma than you wrote: *Quote:* ......I see most people chose a cause because they can't commit to a spiritaul path. Have you ever noticed that ? The cause then becomes the Path. IT is always better to serve God first. Ever worked with someone who just serves people? It can be really tough.....there is no room for God to come thru..... for even in the midst of drunken fence building the man's VERY being was suffused with a profound love affair with God who doesn't have time for dinner?, or in Yogananda's practice to cook and serve dinner, and even hours later to relish the lingering curry aroma on his fingers, reminders of kinship, dinner fellowship and community, community that he spoke of during the large public gathering at Lake Shrine near the end of his life, the words quoted in a few places recently on Walrus reflect on those feelings and his regular practice of taking time to cook, serve, and hold the joy of the shared meal in the hours following--- and on those words on community, as you enjoy your personal photos of PY, especially the color one outdoors with hime seated at the Lake, a day with Gandhi's commemoration and the words of Yoganada on community at Phoenix, at Encinitas, etc who doesn't have time? Dave Edited by: soulcircle at: 3/27/04 12:34 am
soulcircle (3/27/04 1:15 am) Reply	Laughing and laughing, another question/a quick aside *Quote:* Don't miss the point here, One person finding God will change the world...... no only has one person found Goddess, but many, many have and it can be argued: The world hasn't changed If anything several millenia ago the world was less miltaristic and more cooperative. And the doomsday clock: www.bullatomsci.org/clock.html The scientists have the clock at seven minutes til midnight. Maybe one person or a thousand finding Goddess is what has kept humankind from extinction? Maybe one peson finding Goddess has NOT changed the world? Does Goddess produce this whole stage, so one person or some number find her, then the world changes, and one way it changes, is the stage is struck, i.e. blown to smithereens. A person finds Goddess and Bliss A person finds Goddess and Bang Laughing so hard, a new theory for physics, an expanded version of The Big Bang I don't see how the world changed when George W. Bush was "born again." Or when Anandamoyima found God. Sure I love her example and it changed a lot of people's lives drastically and changed the world, yet Just as surely, know the time, it is seven minutes before midnight, that Anandamoyima changed? It was nine minutes before midnight a couple years ago or so, did someone lose God? How can this be entirely serious and hilarious all at once? Just irrelevant wonderings aloud that can be put quickly out of mind, BTW we have heard that if ten folks are in nirbikalpi samadhi the world will continue without being destroyed, maybe one hundred million would safeguard us a bit better, the ten now in samadhi only seem to have given us a few minutes leeway before we're 86ed! That averages a minute each? Help, Dave Edited by: soulcircle at: 3/27/04 1:23 am

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