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SerenityNow7 Registered User (12/16/03 7:40 pm) Reply	Re: Hong Sau/So Hong Hi Etzchaim, well I think I may have been talking about my hot feet too much because they were pretty tepid today. Rather disappointing. There was no difference from right to left so I guess I'm pretty balanced, lol!
SsSsSnake Registered User (1/19/04 12:51 am) Reply	Re: Hong Sau/So Hong surely the sound of the breath is the point of the practice isnt it rather than the mental repetition with the breath. The mind can only ever make an approximation ?
etzchaim Registered User (1/19/04 6:27 am) Reply	Re: Hong Sau/So Hong The sound is certainly an approximation, but the approximation is the closest to a specific type of vibration of the breath, which directs the mind through the breath. Also, Hong Sau, as I understand it, is meant to disconnect the mind from the breath so that the breath is breathing without the mind affecting it, or at least an approximation of that. This facilitates the minds entry into a meditative state through 'cleaning out' the fluxuations caused by the minds connection to the breath. This way the 'observer' can enter into the 'observing state' easier. Or something like that... Edited by: etzchaim at: 1/19/04 9:11 am
SsSsSnake Registered User (1/19/04 8:50 am) Reply	Re: Hong Sau/So Hong I just been reading Muktanandas I am That again after many years and did the HamSa stuff,got pretty high from it. Thing is ina letter to Bubba free John he tells him do So on In breath and Ham on out whereas in book its the other way round lol
etzchaim Registered User (1/19/04 9:19 am) Reply	Re: Hong Sau/So Hong So that's what happened to Bubba...
SsSsSnake Registered User (1/19/04 10:49 am) Reply	Re: Hong Sau/So Hong you knew him?
etzchaim Registered User (1/19/04 11:10 am) Reply	Re: Hong Sau/So Hong No, I've read about him and a good friend of mine in Chicago is a disciple of his. He's one wacky dude. Ken Wilbur has a lot to say about him. Here's a brief example: www.geocities.com/Athens/...wilbur.htm Adi Da is one of the many names he has morphed for himself. Bubba Free John was, I think, one of the first. Edited by: etzchaim at: 1/19/04 11:16 am
jyotirmoy Registered User (1/24/04 5:07 am) Reply	Re: Hong Sau/So Hong About the sounds, my question is whether the mind follows the breath or vice versa. I incline to think the breath's first. It seems to me, while practicing, that the breath is actually making a very gentle "H" sound as it comes in, and an "S" going out. This is subjective, because I accepted the order of the syllables as Yoganandaji taught them; maybe somebody else may hear "S" on the incoming breath. About the vowels: if the "gross" Sanskrit word is "hamsa", the south Indian pronunciation would be closer to "ung" and "uh" (or like French "un" and "e"); "ong" and "au" are Bengali pronunciation. I usually use the latter, for devotion's sake. Thanks for the ref to Wilber's opinion on Da (original name, Franklin Jones). He does have insights, but his personal story is sad. Maybe stuck in an astral side track, a fall typical of some naturally gifted souls.
SsSsSnake Registered User (1/25/04 10:12 am) Reply	Re: Hong Sau/So Hong so it was to do with the Bengali that Y spoke rather than that Hong Sau is the correct way?
etzchaim Registered User (1/26/04 6:17 am) Reply	Re: Hong Sau/So Hong Jyotir, you sound very perceptive. I think you should trust your instincts with what you 'hear' in the sounds. That's very close to the way I learned it. For Ssnake, as well: The sounds are approximations. Both the Sanskrit and the Bengali are probably 'correct' in the way that approximations can be 'correct'. Sanskrit became 'classical' Sanskrit at a certain point, which was probably not the 'original' Sanskrit. The sounds are just tools, or vehicles, to get to a sort of 'place', internally. I use my lineage's tradition because I have a linkage to them, specifically. Shelley's pronunciation of the Vasudevaya mantra is slightly different than Yogananda's and I trust that his 'change' is correct for those who link to him. I happen to link very strongly with Shelley, and not with Yogananda, though I respect Yogananda's approach. If I were to link more with Yogananda, I would use his pronunciation. They are not much different, and the same thing occurs in Hebrew pronunciation among the different Jewish groups. This might clarify: The people from Europe say the words slightly differently than the people from Arab lands. The Yemenites appear to have the 'most accurate' pronunciation, but to people from Europe, hearing a Yemeni say something in Hebrew sounds like almost a different language (and trying to make a "glottal stop" is really difficult for people who grew up speaking a European language!). There's a simple mantra from a Chasidic master that goes "Ribono shel Olam". The Eastern European pronunciation would be "RiBOYno shel OYlam," (they like "oy's" and the accent is on the capitalized letters, the "oy's", wouldn't ya know), but the Yemeni would say "RiboNO shel olAM" with no "oy's" and the accent on the ends of the words. Most people who use this mantra are using an Eastern European approach, and since the mantra has come down through an Eastern European teacher, and those who use it tend to 'link' themselves with this particular teacher, they use his accent to say it. In Israel, 'prayer' Hebrew and 'spoken' Hebrew, for the Ashkenazim - the European Jews - is different. They will pray and chant the Torah with an Ashkenazi accent and speak to each other in an Israeli accent (which is an odd mixture of both Ashkenazi and Sephardi that they sort of agreed on when making it a spoken language again). Both pronunciations are 'correct' in the sense that they are approximations of 'root' sounds that are not really 'physical' but vibratory. It depends on how your particular 'mind' links to the vehicle that is the physical sounds of the words, and linking to a particular teacher is a valid approach. Some people are more emotional and some people are more intellectual. You probably lean more towards the intellectual (Gemini/Aries )
SsSsSnake Registered User (1/26/04 8:47 am) Reply	Re: Hong Sau/So Hong I thought I was Gemini/Taurus? EtZ ,you know a lot a veritable mine of imformation Keep at it thanks
etzchaim Registered User (1/26/04 8:50 am) Reply	Re: Hong Sau/So Hong Ssnake, I have your rising sign as Aries. Moon and Sun in Gemini (!) and Mercury and Venus in Taurus. You like results from your thinking, in other words, no ivory towers (and insatiable curiosity). The Bihar Yoga really fits the rising sign. Edited by: etzchaim at: 1/26/04 8:59 am
SsSsSnake Registered User (1/26/04 9:38 am) Reply	Re: Hong Sau/So Hong Thanks Etz Insatiable curiosity fits like a glove Illl check Bihar out
etzchaim Registered User (1/26/04 11:37 am) Reply	Re: Hong Sau/So Hong Etzchaim meant Bikram yoga! Bihar is a place...
SsSsSnake Registered User (1/26/04 2:12 pm) Reply	Re: Hong Sau/So Hong Funny Im just awaiting the Bikram tape I have the book. what about this for Bihar yoga? ">www.yogamag.net/archives/...tml
SsSsSnake Registered User (1/26/04 2:13 pm) Reply	Re: Hong Sau/So Hong www.yoga-on-line.gr/BIHAR...TI-EN.htm:
SsSsSnake Registered User (1/26/04 2:14 pm) Reply	Re: Hong Sau/So Hong Grrrrrrrrrrrrr If you put Bihar yoga in google it comes up with loads .
etzchaim Registered User (1/27/04 5:57 am) Reply	Re: Hong Sau/So Hong Looked at the mag. That's Shivananda's lineage.

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