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AumBoy
Registered User
(3/14/02 9:20 am)
Reply
ezSupporter
 Yuga Discussion
That discussion is here: Errors in the teachings

Should Free
Registered User
(6/4/02 11:20 pm)
Reply
ezSupporter
 Re: Tara Mata's Influence
Probably the most influencial nuns on how the teachings have been presented to the public are only three:

1) Tara Mata. She was the head of the editorial dpt. for many years. One day a devotee complained to her that SRF was becoming very similar to the Catholic Church; she may have answered: "IT IS ABOUT TIME"!!!!!!!!
When someone complained about the organization itself, she may have said: "During Kali Yuga every organization IS A KALI YUGA ORGANIZATION!!!!!!!!!!! You may understand now why the teachings (the lessons) sound rigid, dictatorial, cultist, and in many ways superficial. You may understand alos why SRF is an abusive, Kali Yuga organization.

2) Mrinalini Mata: Master may have said about her that she was a Catholic nun FOR THE LAST FIVE INCARNATIONS!!!!!!! You may now understand why the teachings are so deeply monastic, fragmenting and full of renunciation BS.

3) Daya Mata. So far she has also been a Catholic nun in past incarnations. Considering her endless SHOULDS and MUSTS in her talks and writtings she could be still in the Catholic church.

Considering the strong Catholic background of the three most influential individuals in SRF's teachings and organization; considering the last issues recently made public in the Catholic Church and all the abuse this church has done to humanity for centuries; considering that SRF is even proud to show that it follows the Catholic Church's bloody footsteps; here is the million dollar question: Do you want to belong to a Catholic Church II ?

I don't. I already survived a Catholic School, and I never dreamt that SRF was in the footsteps of such abusers -- the most power driven, rigid, and inmoral, church in the planet.

But the Catholic Church -- a "compassionate" organization which lives and makes money out of making everyone feel guilty -- gives their blind followers one break; the confession! After they have indulged in all the sins they want (ussually multiple violation to the "Shoulds NOT" they go to a stupid priest, who has "the keys of the kingdom," and confess. Stupid as it is, the confession helps the follower to feel better. With their gas tank full again, they go on enjoying their sins with greater intensity. But we, in SRF had no breaks at all, and we just carried our sins (ussually a violation of a "should") for ever.

My suggestion to SRF is to keep on the Catholic Church's footsteps all the way, and go for the confession too. I also highly recommend to charge money for confessing devotees. With such innumerable reasons (countless shoulds) to sin against the teachings, the monks and nuns will be busy all day long and will make LOTS of money. The organization will never have financial difficulties during Dwapara, and every nun and monk will be able to live in a million dollar home in Sierra Madre -- which will be an excellent example of democratic principles.

KS
Registered User
(6/6/02 6:00 am)
Reply 		Re: Tara Mata's Influence
They charge for the lessons and Kriya and they require you to talk to them before you increase your Kriya practice. It is a short step to charging for it.

By the way, why do we ask them if it is ok to practice the techniques more? A 2 minute interview, maybe over the phone, and they know enough? How do you spell Kontrol?

legspinnr
Registered User
(10/4/02 3:32 am)
Reply 		Re: Cold Cold Heart: Tara Mata's influence on SRF
Why all this theoretical claptrap about Personality Sorters and what sort of Personality a particular human being is or isn't. Each human life is an individual tapestry of decision-and-result, and defies all such efforts to pigeon-hole it. Rather than worrying so much about what type of person Tara Mata is, why not turn your attentions inward? Or do you find your own life so devoid of interest that there is nothing left but to objectivise your feelings about others according to other people's scales of judgment?

All this people-bashing on this website makes me sick. All the while you are concentrating on condemning other people, be they SRF members, Adolf Hitler or Mrs Smith from no.34 down the road, you are indulging in nothing more than salacious gossip. To quote Guruji, who was addressing you as much as me,

"You have a lot of housecleaning to do yourselves."

Grow up, people. Wake up and smell the joy of existence.

wholetruth
Registered User
(10/4/02 9:41 am)
Reply 		Re: Cold Cold Heart: Tara Mata's influence on SRF
You just don't get it, legspinnr/fernsy.

These are the people that have molded and shaped this organization over the past 50 years, that have revised and distorted PY's teachings, that have turned SRF into nothing but a cult. Who would give a hoot about Tara, Daya, Mrinalini, etc. if they hadn't so successfully destroyed Yogananda's work, treated the membership with such contempt, and wasted millions of dollars of devotees' donations waging war on all their imagined enemies, meanwhile posing as divinely-guided beings?

So yeah, they have a lot of people to answer to, starting with their guru.

chrisparis
Registered User
(10/4/02 10:27 am)
Reply 		Re: Tara Mata's Influence
No. Paramahansa Yogananda isn't relevant.

Edited by: chrisparis at: 10/4/02 1:19:15 pm
srflongago
Registered User
(10/5/02 5:40 am)
Reply 		Re: Cold Cold Heart: Reply to Fernsy
As an Oxford Alumni, you must be aware of the importance that institution has attached to research and instruction in History. The traditional view is that History gives us perspective allowing us to evaluate institutions and people and doctrines and books in a truer light. It shears away layers of sheep's wool of self-serving propaganda. We can only learn how to avoid our past mistakes by knowing the truth about the past, knowing a falsfied or prettied up version leads to mistaken decisions. The early documents and history of the main participants in the Kriya movement associated with Yogananda (here and in India) have not been accumulated and vetted according to the standards of religious or secular historians.

In my opinion, any information about the Mormon astrologer Laurie Pratt (Tara Mata), who did a lot of the final writing of Yogananda draft manuscripts and was very close to him for very many years, lends much perspective on differences between his earlier fairly strict Kriya school Yoga philosophy ("Message to the West") and the change to the very restrictive view expressed in the much later publications of SRF and its monastic order.

Edited by: srflongago at: 10/5/02 5:44:05 am
mangomoy
Registered User
(12/21/02 6:39 am)
Reply 		Re: Tara and Cayce
This is just to 'vent' something that has been bugging me for a long time. I'm just angry beyond words with myself for having given many years of $ contributions and loyalty to an organization that's done the exact opposite of stewarding the purity & integrity of Master's work.

At Lake Shrine, Bro. Mokshananda taught us in VL class in the 1980s that Laurie Pratt already had Cosmic Consciousness before ever coming to P. Yogananda. I have written notes from the classes. I also vaguely recall Bro. Achalananda saying something like that to us at Fulletron temple in the 1970s.

Clearly, someone with Cosmic Consciousness would not seek advice from a psychic getting information from Astral or Causal realms. A saint with Cosmic Consciousness would be above & beyond that.

So, the facts posted above in this thread by Terrie & sri srflongago, that while Tara (Laurie Pratt) was an SRF nun living with P. Yogananda she was seeking life advice from Edgar Cayce, clearly show that what Bro. Mokshananda taught us about Tara was false lore. This fantasy was probably taught to Bro. Mokshananda in the SRF ashram.

It was yet another corruption of the purity & integrity of Master's work, along with all the scorched earth edits, clever omissions from Master's tape recorded Lake Shrine dedication talk, alteration of photos, posthumous changing of names & signatures, submergence of many things Master said (e.g.; re: Mussolini, Masters letters, Ma Durga's notes about Master's numerous projects, etc.) and on & on.

I just get madder & madder. Over 30 years...all that service, monetary donations, faith, ... my "down" attitude about all this seems to have some strong emotion behind it! Apologies.

Edited by: mangomoy at: 12/21/02 6:53:04 am
srflongago
Registered User
(12/21/02 7:44 am)
Reply 		Re: Tara and Cayce
Dear Mangomoy:
We all experience great stress and anger when strongly held beliefs acquired from those we trust turn out to be deliberately falsehoods. But don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. Instead try to cleanse mind and soul and spirit from the enveloping cloud of confusion and falsehood that have been introduced.

There is inestimable value in The Vedanta 'Message to the West', Lahiri's Kriya. It was brought over by Yogananda and Dhirananda before the Mormon Wrights and Pratts and Browns ever entered the scene. It was followed by Lewis and Black and Kamala and Ma Durga and many other independent teachers throughout the world, each in their own way. It is very sad that an organization founded to propagate this message seems to have no living practictioners who have the clarity of vision, purity of soul, and depth of compassion, to continue this noble enterprise.

Edited by: srflongago at: 12/21/02 11:28:59 am
mangomoy
Registered User
(12/23/02 12:14 am)
Reply 		Re: Tara and Cayce
Dear srflongago,

Thank you for your positive words.

Do you think that what we (who never met PY in the body) have been taught by SRF is a reasonable approximation of "The Vedanta 'Message to the West', Lahiri's Kriya?"

srflongago
Registered User
(12/23/02 7:42 am)
Reply 		Re: Tara and Cayce
I have not had any personal experience with SRF for well over half a century. I have only what has been published by them and personal reports of long time devotees.

It SEEMS to an outsider that the goals of Kriya in the "Message to the West" have been left behind in this and many other later organizations.

The Kriya path to enlightenment of the "Message to the West" of Sri Yukteswar and Lahiri has as its end the giving up of all desires for the fruits of action, the achievement of unity of self with the universal consciousness.

What are the outward and visible signs of this inward and invisible grace?

Following the Kriya path leads to soundness of body and spirit (Hatha Yoga), tranquility and clarity of mind and soul in meditation and concentration (Raja Yoga), and compassionte love for all humanity and all living creatures (Karma Yoga).

Ignorance of the great spritual works and leaders, conformity to a creed, blind obedience to a superior, credulous belief in the magical experiences of Maya, lead away from, not to, these goals.

There is now a great confusion of means and ends. Many, teachers and students alike, confuse being able to do the exercises of the Kriya Initiations with the ends.

The ends are spirituality, compassion, and love. There are many who can do all the exercises and have little spirituality, love, or compassion. These are only disciplined gymnasts. They are not spritual people in virtue of being able to perform exercises.

The higher qualities do not have to be taken on faith. They shine through to all eyes when they are present. They are never hidden. Those who do not appear to have them do not have them, whatever they may say.

They are the qualities of those whom we should emulate. Those who have these qualities are models for your life, not masters of your fate.

redpurusha
Registered User
(12/23/02 9:05 am)
Reply 		Re: Tara and Cayce
Srflongago, I agree with much of what you say, and you emphasize an integral part of the teachings -desireless action- that apparently is given little attention by the leaders and much of the following. You also warn correctly how "magical experiences" or mystical visions of various sorts, can be a great obstacle to true spirituality and progress. However, "the Kriya path to enlightenment of the 'Message to the West' of Sri Yukteswar and Lahiri" is not solely the giving up of all desires for the fruits of action, but, as stressed so many times by Yogananda and his guru, a balance of meditation and desireless action. There is not an emphasis on either one but on balancing the two, leading to the highest success both in spiritual life and worldy life.

In another post you question an apparent paradox -how is it that a Master like Yogananda can be spiritual at the same time as achieving worldy success and influence. You were implying you know he is desiring the fruits of him spreading the work. I'm not really sure if you talking solely about him, or the current leaders, or of people in general. Regarding Yogananda, how are people going to practice the first integral aspect of the "Message to the West" which is right meditation, without him or someone, or a society, lecturing and publishing works on meditation? How are people suppose to know how to meditate without the public endeavors and action? we are to guess and find out through our own trial and error, or take a trip to India to possible find a true master and live with him in a cave or an ashram? This is not practical. Yogananda, tried to make the message as practical as possible. I give him credit for that, even though printed lessons are not the ideal way.

Could it be, that instead of Yogananda wanting the fruits of his public actions, he was just doing the will of God? According to the Sri Yukteswar and the other masters, he was chosen to the task. And could he not be helping others, or at least doing his best to help others in finding God, without caring for his popularity fruits of actions as you say?

srflongago
Registered User
(12/23/02 5:27 pm)
Reply 		Re: Tara and Cayce
Redpurusha: Thank you for your thoughtful comments.

First, let me say that attributing any behavior of a human being to divine will is of the same character as attributing it to Satan or to chance or to the Fates. It expresses approval of the activity and gives it apparent legitimacy, just as attributing behavior to the devil expresses disapproval and illegitimacy. I see no basis for any human to be able to make a grounded judgement about such matters. In making such a judgement, it feels as if one has said something. One has, but it is something very subjective.

Second, I view meditation as one of several tools used on the path to unity of self and universal consciousness. The latter is a goal, the former a means. I do not regard them in the same light.

In accord with an ancient tradition stemming from the Gita I believe that giving up all desire for the consequence of actions implies that the master cannot desire followers, cannot desire organizations or material possessions. He or she must cast an aura of inner perfection. Those attuned will follow of their own accord. As Lahiri taught and acted, he or she cannot charge in any form for services, they have to be given freely, and only free will offerings can be accepted. Thus it was for the traditional Yogi of India, wandering or householder. It is also an ancient tradition to which I subscribe that desire for the fruits of action, particularly worldly success, constitute an imperfection, the greater the desire, the greater the imperfection.

But is this a criticism? I believe that no human being can attain perfection in life. Perfection is an ideal, not an actuality. Some people come closer than others.

"From egotism, force, pride, desire, wrath, and possession freed, unselfish, calmed, he is fit for becoming Brahman" (Bhagavad Gita XVIII.53).

Edited by: srflongago at: 12/23/02 7:04:00 pm
astral7
Registered User
(2/12/03 5:58 am)
Reply 		Re: Cold Cold Heart: Tara Mata's influence on SRF
Dear Legspinnr;

You must understand that the main reason why the emphasis on this board is "people bashing", is because the Ananda & other cult people who do post here, are desperately trying to bring most others down to the level of their own leaders/founders.

This particular thread is the busiest one on the board becuase of this attitude of emtpiness.

The second reason is that they are still regretting that they have chosen losers as leaders, and dwell on both actual and many many falsely imagined "might have" comments to attack others.

Even one of their leaders - 35 years after being fired was still in a state of morbid guilt and resentment re his failure as a person and a monk. [A 20 page letter he wrote was posted for a few days by friends of his]. Some posts on this site reminds one of the morbid souls who spend their time writing computer viruses. You get to know persons like this by what comes out of their minds. If you have nothing positive to offer the world, here is the place to learn of the negative arts of communication and slander.
Didn't Jesus say something about that -"it is what comes out of the mouth that defiles a man."

Whose fault is it really? Just think, if T M and other good ladies & men at SRF didn't fire JDW[it was a unanimus vote], Ananda would not exist or be in the mess it has been in for years now. And so many persons would not have been sexuallly abused there.

How else can they live with themselves. This board must be their main outlet. Ananda - we offer our deepest sympathy.

It is wonderful that 3 sets of DNA tests have now cleared the good name of Paramahansa Yogananda.
He is not anyones father. Try in a nother lifetime!

Regards and respectus a stral.7

chrisparis
Registered User
(2/12/03 6:31 am)
Reply 		Re: Tara and Cayce
Dear Astral7

Since you have just called everybody on this board "losers" who have chosen "losers" as leaders, your sign off use of the word "respect is shown to be a lie. It is now clear that you are, at best, a provocateur here on the board. I ask that you leave. I hope other posters on this board will add their requests, and that you will no longer trouble us with your condescending propagandizing.
Adieu,

member108
Registered User
(2/12/03 6:39 am)
Reply 		People Bashing?
People bashing? People Bashing? Guilty! Not Yogananda bashing, but certainly people bashing. A bunch of bad ladies have hijacked Yogananda’s work, are hurting and abusing people, wasting resources given by unsuspecting members, and are driving my Gurus reputation into the ground. Yes, we are bashing those people.

As a legal point the bad ladies have every right to do what they are doing. In this country anyone can setup a cult or business and sell fake vitamins or worthless advice and if people buy it then they buy it. Let the buyer beware! However in all cases those who have been cheated and deceived have ever right to be upset! The also have every right to try to pass the word to others so that they don’t get hurt and waste their money or lose their spiritual way by believing that Yogananda is represented by that place.

For the record I am certainly people bashing. The SRF leadership deserves it.

username
Registered User
(2/12/03 8:45 am)
Reply 		Re: Cold Cold Heart: Tara Mata's influence on SRF
I am not associated in any way with Ananda. The only cult I have ever been involved with is SRF.

astral7
Registered User
(2/12/03 11:56 am)
Reply 		Re: Tara and Cayce
If you don't like the tone of that last post, try to stop writing the company line and stuff like that.

Not very nice, and if you stop it I will too and you won't have to look in the mirror any more. I have more important ideas to express than trash like that.

It's sad that YOU are calling others on this board losers.

My post was clear that it only applies to some wannabe teachers or whatever they are.

At any rate, be cool, better things will happen for all.

Regards and respect astral.7

Edited by: astral7 at: 2/12/03 11:57:56 am
astral7
Registered User
(2/12/03 12:40 pm)
Reply 		Re: Falling Through the Cracks
Yo Witness;
In your post of 12/11/01 you wrote;
"Isn't this a core question, which has far-ranging metaphysical implications? Such as, why do virtually all "spiritual leaders" have strict prohibitions about sexual behaviour, when so many have been revealed to have been secretly breaking their own rules? Why in the name of all that's holy don't they just tell their followers that it's a natural act in which they, like most other beings, enjoy?
One obvious answer is control. Inserting oneself into the bedrooms of the faithful, metaphorically speaking, is a powerful tool that can help ensure the most intimate bonding is between the guru figure and a follower, even if that follower is married. The list of highly regarded Eastern gurus who have been revealed to have had active sex with their devotees lives includes Swami Muktananda (see the extensive article in a November 1994 issue of The New Yorker); Swami Rama (founder of the Himalayan Institute, now deceased after being forced out of the US after damaging lawsuits); Muktananda's designated successor (until his sister Gurumai ousted him); the head of the Kripalu Yoga ashram on the East coast, whose followers spent years following his example of celibacy until he announced (just before some female devotees did) that he had been having sex all along -- the list is shockingly long, and includes some of the highly regarded Tibetan Buddhist leaders currently cutting such a swathe in America (the Dalia Lama has commented publicly on this).
And I won't even mention the Catholic Church.
So if Yogananda did, as now seems not only possible but provable, how can anyone who retains any common sense at all (something that is sorely tested if one has spent any time near the power players of SRF) overlook the fact that -- thank you, Musicman -- indeed, "it's time to expose the naked emperor."
========You spoke too soon in this last paragraph!

The fact that you left [the naked emporer’s name] Donald J Walters of Ananda off that hit list. This a good hint that you may be another Ananda front man working here.
No problem, we have a relatively free country here.

Aside from that, it appears you spoke a little to soon in your efforts to lower Yogananda to that level. Since as of now, 3 separate DNA tests [one totally independent of SRF], have proven scientifically that there is NO evidence of Yogananda ever having ever done anything sexual. he knew what it was all about, a pure monk and Self-Realized Yogi. Even as a boy he only had his attention on Reality and Self-Realization.
He is not anyone’s father, unless it is in someone’s imagination. My sympathy does go to all who would like to know their true parentage.

That last test of 2002 also proved the integrity and reliability of those running Self-Realization Fellowship as well. As it proved that the previous tests that they ordered were also properly done with the same conclusion.


Also; you write;" Such as, why do virtually all "spiritual leaders" have strict prohibitions about sexual behavior, when so many have been revealed to have been secretly breaking their own rules? Why in the name of all that's holy don't they just tell their followers that it's a natural act in which they, like most other beings, enjoy?"

You pose a very fundamental question here. The answer to which separates the ones who may be much farther advanced then others. Perhaps an added note to this would be to give credit to those who made a mistake and had the wisdom, discipline, honesty, flexibility, spiritual awareness and just plain intelligence to stop making the same mistake over and over again. As some that you list [including our naked emperor] have unwittingly failed to do for years. And it is true that some have tried to project that htt papering.

You may probably know already, that Yogananda and His Self-Realization Fellowship clearly admit to sex being natural in married life. While they caution those who think they are ready for the celibate life to proceed with caution. This is the more difficult way, and only is only recommended - in or out of monastic tradition for those who know the meaning of honest commitment, discipleship, and what the spiritual life is all about.

From what we can read about those to whom celibacy was no problem, they were deeply & successfully into a loving and rewarding spiritual quest towards Self-Realization.
Br. Anandamoy and Daya Mata of the Self-Realization Fellowship are superb examples of this.
No wandering/wondering here and there, no maybe I'll try this for a while. No wishy-washyiness.

The person who is under stress about this matter may either be fooling himself, or very unaware as to where he/she really is spiritually, or even which way is up. Then they add another mistake to this by setting themselves up as a wannabe guru. What next?

Regards and Respect Astral.7

Edited by: astral7 at: 2/12/03 12:54:21 pm
chrisparis
Registered User
(2/12/03 2:25 pm)
Reply 		Re: People Bashing?
How would a DNA test EVER prove whether or not someone had done anything sexual. It can only prove he fathered a child. OR not...
Sloppy, Astral7, very sloppy...

Edited by: chrisparis at: 2/12/03 2:26:20 pm
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