God Talks to Arjuna? Author, Please step forward.

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chela2020 Registered User (2/10/03 2:05 pm) Reply	? (This message was left blank) Edited by: chela2020 at: 2/13/03 3:47:38 pm
astral7 Registered User (2/10/03 4:45 pm) Reply	Re: God Talks with Arjuna- is the name of this book! Dear Lobo ; I sense your hand of understanding and friendship with appreciation, but please ease off on that false comment about SRF. There seems to be an dominant attitude on this discussion board of simply - and sometimes mindlessly -in any way - with anything at hand - to attack SRF and/or Yogananda for no good purpose. In fact a casual reader may even get the impression that some of the attack on SRF and its leadership, is a disguised attack on PY. This is clear in some of the responses to posts. In my post about the Gita for example - these ideas have not to my knowledge been written by anyone from SRF, and never by me to this extent before. SRF has never produced anything like the statements I am working on. It is very original, and I am presenting a broader picture than one normally sees in brickbatting sites like diff etc. The SRF does not need, or have others do their work for them in the way that some are suggesting on this board.[with total lack of evidence] Since there is no hint or proof of this - your suggestino as such appears as just another insult against Yogananada's Self-Realization Fellowship. Now Lets turn this one around - who has been paying you guys to attack and insult SRF and its leaders. What cult are you serving by denigrating every single thing SRF has done with little or no basis. Or is it just the jealousy that your own leaders do not measure up, and you want to knock others down to gain more market share. I believe that some of you here are the paid front men of Ananda, and your writing style and unbased rumors follow very closely in the style of your teacher. What I am writing may not be what you some of you are necessarily hoping to see on this board. But it's my opinion, and the truth is - I can even say a lot more than I have on those matters. You are just hearing the introductions. There will be more surprises! Most anti-SRF brigades are for the most part simply poorly informed as to the whys and wherefores of so many of these issues. And the desparate attempt of those here who think that attempting to pick every single thing apart, Say that every single thing ever done is wrong, & add a dressing of false inuendos and rumors, and personal insults, does not prove much except expressions of sour grapes and resentment re ones own spiritual failures. Any Accusations that I may be asked by, or paid by anyone to write here is another one of these false statements. So if you wonder why Mother Center does not respond to your queries as much as you wish, the evidence is all here. If they did you would only respond with more doubts and pessimism. Some here would not be able to asses properly even if more data was provided by the SRF. They are way ahead of you by not playing your game. Annoying isn't it? All responses are from my own personal understanding & experiences. Sorry you couldn't see that. Do you know something about me that I don't? Regards and respect, Astral.7 Edited by: astral7 at: 2/10/03 9:32:25 pm
username Registered User (2/10/03 6:12 pm) Reply	To: astral 7 Whoa ... I think you have gone insane
Lobo Registered User (2/10/03 7:53 pm) Reply	Re: God Talks with Arjuna- is the name of this book! Astal, I know nothing about or of you. It is my belief based upon how you phrase things as well as others which as I said set off my intitution. Someone else claimed to have traced your server/browser to SRF, while it wouldn't surprise me, and I said so at the time, I have no knowledge of this, nor would I even know how to do such a thing. So admitedly it is inferential, my belief that you are working (I use the term not as an employee but as maybe a longtime devotee, an ex-Ananda member maybe, who has access to what we lesser's might call the "higher echelon" at Mt. Washington), where you are encouraged to stand up for SRF on this board, upon which all things being equal, has been coming under heavy attack since this board was born. I've been hear about a year of so. During my time here there have been others who've come and gone with the purpose of "putting in the good word" for SRF. I again say, gone. But you are different. You not only stay, but your posts become more SRF-like, offering organizational justifications for the unjustifiable. Like claiming that it is better to change Master's words by his disciples then it is for members to have his unedited, original words. In the latter example you use oblique reasoning that doesn't come close to justifying how disciples can improve upon their guru's words, and you do it with, as I say, SRF-speak. So if you are here to stay, that's fine, it isn't my board. As I say I've noticed a rather arrogant attitude that you've developed lately in your replies which usually means that one is cornerned and wants to lash out. I know I've done it. And I apologized publicly on this board to you for doing so. You, on the other hand, haven't the desire to have a person to person exchange as Master would've told us too. For that would require opening up and allowing others here to understand why you are writing what you are writing, your motivation. I've told you mine many times over. And that's why I also think SRF at the very least is aware of , and massively approves, your presence on this board.
KS Registered User (2/10/03 8:52 pm) Reply	Astral7 an SRF insider???? Dear Ones, Astral7 can�t be an SRF plant. While she is certainly a short time member of SRF and has the cult fire of determination to protect her beloved organization, she can�t be at the HQ. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, is written or published, even mailed out in letters without months and months of exhaustive review. Remember that SRF is completely run by fear. This is mentioned by others. Fear of lawyers (they live by lawyers and fear lawyers) and fear of their image and fear of the members. Fear fear fear. Public affairs would need to strickly review every message, as would the legal department. Editorial would need to tweak and tune every word. A7 thinks that the president writes the seasonal letters and that when members need help and write in that devotional blissful nuns write letters back. What a joke. Little does A7 know the real process! The real process is pathetic. Anyone who thinks SRF could possibly really participate in an interactive discussion doesn�t know SRF! A7 writes messages too fast!
astral7 Registered User (2/10/03 9:27 pm) Reply	Re: God Talks with Arjuna- is the name of this book! (This message was left blank) Edited by: astral7 at: 2/10/03 9:28:26 pm
astral7 Registered User (2/10/03 9:36 pm) Reply	Re: God Talks to Arjuna? Author, Please step forward. yes holy sinner; you may be a cynic. or what! Are some here envious that their teacher didn't write that? I do believe Yogananda wrote God Talks With Arjuna! If nothing else, I'm hope you may someday read the book so you will speak from an informed opinion. Regards and respect astral.7
chuckle chela Registered User (2/10/03 10:07 pm) Reply	Re: Astral7 an SRF insider??????? Trust me, Lobo, Astral7 is not an SRF plant. I don't think SRF would stand behind a great deal of what Astral says, quite frankly. Chela2020, Astral7 knows much less about how Mother Center operates than s/he tries to convey, as anyone who has worked there or who has had close contacts with various departments or a number of monastics can testify (KS is telling you!). Again, speaking frankly, if monastics at Mother Center wrote responses the way our friend Astral7 does, I think there would be a wave of complaints. I think Astral is as welcome here as anyone, as you suggested, Lobo. We all sink or swim on the basis of the ideas and musings we place here. FWIW, my friend Astral7, I think it would serve you and your cause of defending SRF well if you were to be a bit more accommodating and, well, I hate to say it, respectful. Best wishes to you. Edited by: chuckle chela at: 2/12/03 4:17:08 pm
chuckle chela Registered User (2/10/03 10:32 pm) Reply	Re: God Talks to Arjuna? Author, Please step forward. I have a collection of Self-Realization magazines that goes back to the early 1930s. When some of this editing controversy came up many months ago, I decided to take the Gita commentaries in the old mags and compare them with God Talks With Arjuna. I looked at two magazines from each decade, 30s, 40s, 50s, and 60s (I gave up before I hit the 70s). In a nutshell, there have been many editing changes. However, most of them are fairly minor, such as "tightening" up the syntax, correcting verbal disagreements that would appear in compound sentences, replacing the passive voice with an active one, re-ordering paragraphs, and so on. I didn't spend more than about three hours at this, because I quickly realized it would take a massive effort to determine if all the hundreds of small changes were significant. One could easily spend an hour or more on one paragraph to determine if changes to that paragraph were significant in and of themselves, and whether these changes significantly altered the interpretation of the Gita verse being commented on. In those three hours, I found only one change--the omission of a sentence that I thought significant--that appeared obviously noteworthy. Most of the other changes just weren't that significant. On the whole, as a result of this very small effort, I'm satisfied that the Gita interpretations haven't been altered very significantly. There is certainly no change (insofar as I can see) in the overall major, recurrent themes of the Gita--nonattachment, the importance of meditation and kriya, devotion, evenmindedness, surrender--and Yogananda's interpretation of those themes. Having said that, though, I do recognize that a proper effort, by a trained editor, might determine that there were significant changes. But it would be a massive undertaking. Indeed, I suspect that one of the reasons it took so long for the Gita interpretations to reach book form was the extensive efforts at editing. As I said, I didn't see significant changes. Giving the benefit of the doubt to Tara Mata and Mrinalini Mata, I'm willing to bet they tried diligently to be true to Yogananda's words and his spirit. Even the commentaries appearing in mags from the 60s had been changed once they reached book form, so the editing efforts might have happened over many years. I think one of the reasons for the editing of this and other writings of Yogananda (and it is only one reason) is to achieve greater respectability, particularly academic respectability. From what I understand, it is something SRF tries to achieve, and I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, in and of itself. Just my two bits.
chela2020 Registered User (2/11/03 3:20 am) Reply	Re: God Talks to Arjuna? Author, Please step forward. (This message was left blank) Edited by: chela2020 at: 7/1/03 4:49 pm
Lobo Registered User (2/11/03 7:30 am) Reply	Re: God Talks to Arjuna? Author, Please step forward. Chuckle Chela, It isn't my contention that traditional editing wasn't probably needed, as is easily seen by the fact that PY did in fact have an editor. English after all wasn't his first language. However I admire your prowess (and your old magazines) in spending time trying to ascertain the amount of editing, and the form chosen. While you say that there hasn't been extensive editing, based upon the old magazines, which again you point out probably were already edited, the fact remains that PY's original words have been edited, and re-edited, who knows how many times. You also speculate that SRF wants to have the approval of the academic community. This seems pretty accurate of their desire for being known as a significant "player". I wouldn't know not being an academic at all, but I've read the writings of Gitano and others who were apparently academics, and they had no problem being critical of SRF's and Yogananda's writings. However it seems to me that devotee's in India, the origin after all of the Gita, aren't or wouldn't be concerned about academic concerns; when it comes to the guru's commentaries. They would probably ask if Shankara needed to be approved by the academics, or if he even would have cared. Commentaries on the Gita in India by realized yogi's (and some not so) are widely available and not seen as being that out of the ordinary. At least that's my impression based upon the offerings that are available just here in the west. Lahiri Mahasaya wrote Gita commentaries, yet those aren't widely available, particularly in the west. Sri Yukteswar also wrote commentaries (PY comment that his guru was the greatest living example of wisdom seems to indicate the import of his guru's commentaries); yet neither are made available for PY's devotee's. Might be due to legal reasons, copyrights and all that, don't you know. Based upon his param-guru and guru's efforts, and the fact that down through history there have appeared from many great yogi's and realized beings, it just might be that PY didn't want this flowerly, ponderously presented Gita which SRF has so mightly labored and brought forth, lo, all these years later. He might not have cared a whit about what the "academic" community cared about his own commentaries on the Gita. I don't know if you've read Kriyananda's book, The Path, or not, but the chapter where he is living in the desert and spending time with PY whilst the latter is writing/dictating his commentaries goes far to explain the holiness of PY's efforts, and I would say as opposed to the "looking for a another Ben Franklin award" Gita as presented by SRF. Best to you!
etzchaim Registered User (2/11/03 5:02 pm) Reply	Sri Yukteswars Gita www.yoganiketan.net/sriyukteshvargita/ This web site is awesome. Check out the rest of the publications... Etz
soulcircle Registered User (2/12/03 1:59 am) Reply	Yukteswar's commentary WOW!! Thank You
astral7 Registered User (2/12/03 1:14 pm) Reply	"God Talks to Arjuna' Yogananda's Triumph from SRF. Is that why Yogananda reworked some of his writings, because "they probably didn't need editing." I'm not sure what the purpose of your comment was, "English after all wasn't his first language," As can be seen from His talks recordings and the publics appreciation - His English was rather flawless. One rarely attempts to write/speak on profound matters and poetry if the language in not at a high degree of fluency. There was not another guru who came to America that surpassed Him in my estimation. I have read the writings of David Frawley and he had no problem giving very great praise to Yogananda's writing - expecially the "God Talks With Arjuna" translation & Commentary. Regards and respect Astral.7
stermejo Registered User (3/16/03 4:50 pm) Reply	Re: "God Talks to Arjuna' Yogananda's Triumph from SRF. Read my reply to forkhand. Again, the ODE at the Gita's end still stands in my mind as the most painful piece of writing I have ever read. Writen perhaps with Tennyson in mind? Perhaps no insult intended but much given. But then why would Master take a royal swat at Britian's poet Laureate who wrote: If thou wouldst hear the Nameless, and wilt dive, Into the temple-cave of thine own self There, brooding by the central altar, thou Mayst haply find the Nameless hath a voice, By which thou wilt abide, if thou be wise. ---Alfred Lord Tennyson
stermejo Registered User (3/22/03 12:49 pm) Reply	Re: "God Talks to Arjuna' Have to qualify my criticism. In fact, the shock at reading Ode is that some of Master's writing can and does bring tears to my eyes. I speak of his poem "Friendship" which calls to mind those friends who have gone on.
Paramadas Registered User (11/2/03 10:42 pm) Reply	old SRF magazines Regarding the link in a previous post to the old magazines, many of the links for individual issues of East-West and Inner Culture at that site don't lead to actual SRF magazines, but to weird unrelated sites. Does anybody know of any other sources of old SRF magazines? Where WOULD one find old magazines? Might there be copies buried away in some old libraries maybe, like the LA library, or the New York Public Library? Can anyone offer me any clues? Some of these old magazines are really cool and give you a flavor of SRF in the old days. Neat stuff. Paramadas p.s. the original link was posted in this thread on 1/5/03 by MastersChela, and the link was: www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Library/7587/SRFmagazines.htm Edited by: Paramadas at: 11/2/03 10:54 pm
rachelcorrie Registered User (11/3/03 12:18 am) Reply	Berkeley GTU Library Enjoy Edited by: rachelcorrie at: 11/3/03 12:28 am
username Registered User (11/3/03 5:50 am) Reply	Re: old SRF magazines I have a lot of old magazines. If there is something specific you want, let me know.

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