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SRF Walrus > SRF Teachings and Ideals > Babaji = Krishna
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Paramadas Registered User (9/24/05 9:47 pm) Reply	Babaji = Krishna In another thread, Divine Gypsy quotes Daya Ma's book "Only Love" in which Daya Ma says that Babaji's nature is love. That's because Babaji is the reincarnation of Krishna, and Krishna's essence is love in all its forms. While it seems obvious to me that Babaji = Krishna, some SRF devotees have never made the connection. By contrast, YSS devotees understand this perfectly well. I can also confide that Durga Mata told me herself that Babaji is Krishna. I'm not exactly sure why SRF has never made this public, but the idea of offending Hindus does not seem to be an issue, because YSS devotees take to the idea very readily. Has this topic ever found its way into other SRF-related discussion boards, or can we claim that this is a "you heard if first on the Walrus" original? Edited by: Paramadas at: 9/24/05 9:47 pm
stermejo Registered User (9/25/05 1:50 pm) Reply	Re: Babaji = Krishna The Babaji = Krishna "fact" comes up pretty early in my experience of SRF. I'm pretty sure most SRFers have been exposed to it and at one time or another on this board I've made my point that it's just a way of elevating your particular Guru to a high spiritual state; the idea that PY was Arjuna sure makes him more poignant as a Guru. Consider, Babaji, Krishna, Christ states of consciousness that are equal? OK. Or, Arjuna as an archetype of the seeker, fine again. Archetypes and states of consciousness are open to all comers. But I hear the statment as, a historical individual whom Krishna is based on existed at one time and reincarnated as the historical Babaji. This is all very iffy because little if any historical proof exists of either Krishna or Babaji. We might as well search for historical proof of the existence of Zeus or Athena. Nonetheless, I honor Athena as the goddess of wisdom, and the hearth and home. The problem, (pour moi) with the Babaji = Krishna business lies in spiritual materialism that picks two individuals apart and tries to assemble them into a single unit. I guess I just don't get the importance of having Babaji = Krishna. Maybe it allows the believer to more easily bring the ideal out of the purely spiritual realm. So, OK to that, too.
Paramadas Registered User (9/25/05 7:50 pm) Reply	Re: Babaji = Krishna Stermejo, the connection is important for a couple of reasons. First, it makes sense of PY's statement that there are two mahavatars, one for the west, Jesus, and one for the east, Babaji. If that's so, then where does Krishna fit in? Second, it fleshes out our understanding of Babaji. PY makes a big deal about his mysterious past, which turns out not to be so mysterious after all. OK, so we don't know the date of his birth, but we know he is the divine incarnation of Love. That's pretty cool in my book. In my neighborhood there is an active kirtan group which meets in different people's houses. We're mostly SRF-based, or at least Yogananda-based, but there are some traditional Viashnava types and some devotees of other, related paths as well. The one thing we all have in common is the love of Krishna, and in this treacherous world it's kind of cool to know that Krishna is indeed alive and well, with a physical body that at least some can see. Call it "spiritual materialism" if you like, but it's comforting anyway.
cussacat Registered User (9/25/05 11:24 pm) Reply	Re: Babaji = Krishna SO HOW MANY OF YOU GUYS STILL BELIEVE IN SANTA CLAUS AND THE TOOTH FAIRY FOR THE SAME REASONS?
Paramadas Registered User (9/26/05 8:09 pm) Reply	Re: Babaji = Krishna One of the reasons that people are attracted to Yogananda and his lineage is that, if you pray sincerely to any of them, you DO get a response. Many, many times I have been healed or otherwise aided by this line of Gurus. For me, at least, that rarely happened with other religions. And I seriously doubt it would happen if you prayed to Santa Claus or the tooth fairy (so please quit trivializing the discussion). Like Master says, "You have to mean business with God." I often find that I have to get angry at Master before he'll help me. "Damn it, Guruji, this is your job description! Your chela's gotten himself in (another) life-threatening situation. OK, I'll try to do better in the future, but right now, you'd better answer me or else!" I suspect that this line of reasoning simply focusses my devotions, but it works, drat it. It works. And for whatever reason, it did NOT work when I prayed to any other saint or religious figure. Heaven knows I'm not the only person with similar stories of "help in need." Even people who are not in SRF, even people in other religions, have stories of Master helping them. If these Gurus don't do it for you, that's cool, find something that does work for you. Just please don't belittle those of us for whom these Gurus are special. Edited by: Paramadas at: 9/26/05 8:11 pm
Used Yogi Registered User (9/26/05 9:16 pm) Reply	Re: Babaji = Krishna Paramadas, The first I heard of the Babaji = Krishna connection was in Kriyananda's book The Path. I found it on the shelf of a New Age bookstore in the 1980s and bought it. In that book, Kriyananda quotes Yogananda as saying that Babaji was Krishna and he (Yogananda) was Arjuna. I think SRF likes to treat it as an open secret for two reasons: it exemplifies the "need to know" culture of SRF, not relating a statement of their guru to the "unwashed masses" who have no need to know; and it adds a mystique that they don't come right out and say it. Used Yogi
cussacat Registered User (9/26/05 11:18 pm) Reply	Re: Babaji = Krishna P'das, I was not spouting belittlement with the Claus and Fairy comment. If the main criterion for belief in Babaji and the line, (since I'm assuming that you have not just returned from an interview), is answer to requests, by the same reasoning, I've never asked SC or the TF for anything I didn't get. The point of the discussion being, of course, in the era in which we live, is that those who believe have no proof other than in stretching whatever situation to fit their belief system. These are precisely the same kind of "proof" arguments used by the IC people in the current debate over IC being taught as a "science" in the US school system. Most of the people I've been close to from SRF have, for example, poopoed the Christian concept of "one life salvation simply by faith in Christ", and yet seem to have no problem whatever in accepting the 2,000 year old Himalayan yogi ghost idea. The carrot dangled by virtually every religion on the planet is based on the hope of gaining the SC or TF type reward, a something for nothing concept. As you said, "I've dug myself into a hole, and it's up to you to get me out." We smile knowingly at the kid who still believes in the SC concept, yet continue to do virtually the same thing ourselves. ?? Have fun.
Paramadas Registered User (9/27/05 6:30 am) Reply	Re: Babaji = Krishna Cussacat, well, at least I'm glad you were not making disparaging comments. That's cool (and my apologies for thinking you were), but I can't grasp what you're saying. Is there anybody else who understands cussacat's argument? For example, what's "IC"? The only thing that I know of that some "Christians" are trying to push through Kansas schools is the "Intelligent Design" concept, but IC? No clue. Did you ever pray to Santa Claus to heal you of a life-threatening disease? I'll be really interested if you got a response! As for "something for nothing" concept, um, I don't know what to say, except, it don't work like that. I'm beginning to think I'm wasting my time trying to explain the importance of either Babaji or Krishna, let alone both together.
dontknownothinbouthistory Registered User (9/27/05 12:13 pm) Reply	i get i get and agree with Cussacat well made points
feelbetrayed Registered User (9/27/05 1:34 pm) Reply	Re: Krishna's incarnations Krishna = Babaji in SRF lore. Rama = Krishna = Ramakrishna in Vedanta Society lore. (They have a song: "He who was Rama and he who was Krishna was born again as Ramakrishna.") Both SRF and Vedanta Society are based on teachings of enlightened masters. How do we resolve the credibility problem indicated by their profound disagreement on this? (Maybe I'm wrong to assume Krishna doesn't incarnate as several people, both Babaji & Ramakrishna, at the same time?) Note: Paramadas, I truly respect your evident deep conviction that Krishna = Babaji. Edited by: feelbetrayed at: 9/27/05 1:36 pm
moyma Registered User (9/28/05 9:38 pm) Reply	Re: Krishna's incarnations alot of this is why SRF doesn't use a statue of krisna on there alter IN Yss do they use Krishna instead of jesus ? I think they problaby should. They don't need Jesus on ther alters except to give people a more global view of masters teachings. It is something SRF will have to deal with in time.
Paramadas Registered User (9/29/05 9:04 pm) Reply	Re: Krishna's incarnations Moyma, I've never been to India, but I've seen pictures and films of YSS gatherings, and I specifically looked for picture of Jesus on the altars. At least in the pictures I saw, Jesus was noticably absent. Feelbetrayed, Fascinating observation. Now I'm going to display my prejudice, and invite all sorts of potshots at me. Feel free, folks, because I probably deserve it, but personally, I'd have a hard time respecting a Guru who was a chain-smoker. This issue raises a hornet's nest of questions about the nature of Gurus, which have been raised in other threads on the Walrus, and (from my point of view) constitute one of the most important, even central, questions that makes the Walrus worthwhile as a forum for discussion. Chain-smoking is pretty bad (my opinion) but what about pro-Nazi rhetoric? Yipes. What about a Guru who lets his church fall apart at the seams? (I was thinking of the Christian church, but SRF might also apply). What Guru in his right mind would leave in charge murderous monsters like some previous Popes have been? Or doting, incompetent old ladies? This raises some serious questions. Ones I can't answer, I'm sorry to say.
cussacat Registered User (9/30/05 1:40 am) Reply	Re: Krishna's incarnations Howdy, everyone: The official altars in India are quite different from the ones used in SRF in the west. It�s interesting that none of the ashrams (this is from my last visit) used the same configuration of pictures. The four gurus without J&K were used in a couple of places, while J&K were off to the side in others. Notable also, all consistently had a pic of a Faye Wright down in one corner. One of their senior monks had told me that Daya Mata and Paramahansa Yogananda are the same person! So, I guess we can assume they're a pretty mixed up bunch over there. (Here, too!) Of interest, also, on this thread about the Babaji/Krishna idea, I saw a photo of the Ananda altar in India, and it seems that Kriyananda had, according to the story, commissioned a combined painting of Christ with Krishna looking over his shoulder that was really outrageously funny, which, according to the photo, had replaced the traditional SRF picture of Christ. To each his own, I suppose�? (Speaking of mixed up) And, P�das, make up your mind, please. I get yelled at for taking a poke at the line of gurus, and in your last post, you say there are serious questions to be asked about them. Which is it�..or is it neither? Have fun.
Paramadas Registered User (9/30/05 6:52 am) Reply	Re: Krishna's incarnations Cussacat, you've hit upon the central (as I see it) conflict in all religions, and a problem that I have not been able to resolve. Yes, the Gurus of many religions do goofy things, or even downright bad things, but that doesn't seem to matter (it should, in my mind) because when you pray to them, you get a response. So, maybe you can't judge a true Guru from a fake by looking at his track record. Seems pretty contradictory to me, but my own Guru praised the most despised person in human history, so what the hell am I supposed to think or feel about him? I'd like to make up my mind, but I simply don't understand how someone supposedly so wise could make such a hideous blunder. Ramakrishna was a chain-smoker (disgusting!--and what a bad example) and Jesus let the hate-mongers, bigots and pedophiles take over his ministry. What a screwed-up situation.
cussacat Registered User (9/30/05 8:09 am) Reply	Re: Krishna's incarnations Hey, P�das and all: The paramount strategy of the religion and guru system is to convince you that you�re too stupid and too far down the evolutionary scale to have a chance at getting out, while all the time telling you that �God lives inside you�. If you�re SRF, just think back. You gotta have the guru, or you gotta give your life to Christ, or you gotta be a martyr for whatever. Nobody seems to be finding out who HE is in the process. It�s always the guilt trip of that I�m falling short of what everybody else expects me to be. The term �self realization� should mean just that, if that�s what you�re looking for�who are YOU? When you put all your expectation eggs in the basket of another person who�s just as fallible as yourself, you�re bound to be disappointed! Get off the gawdamed guru rollercoaster at the next stop and walk away as who you are! All of your answers are already inside yourself. If you think yourself incapable of doing this, it�s only because they have convinced you so. Discover yourself without the one size fits all molds offered by the religionists. You don�t need the monks and nuns to show you the way. By their very obvious example, they don�t have a clue. Take charge of your own life! And have fun.

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